Now that it's common knowledge that Fuqua is no longer apart of the defunct VCC (beyond the fall season) or the new conference formed from the other schools, what does the future hold for them? Will they be an independent? Will a different conference take them? Really curious to see how this turns out.
Fuqua's future?
- Thread starter VirginiaWildcat
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I'm really curious too. As I see it, they have a couple of options:
-Play as an independent. From a scheduling standpoint, this may prove difficult as it is up to the VCC schools whether or not to play them if they are not in the conference.
-Find a new conference. Fuqua was a member of the VCC a long time ago, but left in the late 90's for the VIC/BRC. I'm not sure why they did that, but they rejoined the VCC maybe less than 10 years later. Geographically, that would be their next best fit. Beyond that, I have no idea what other conferences are even out in that part of the state. They might have to join a conference that requires a good deal of travel.
-Get new members to join their current conference. Depending on how you want to look at it, there is still technically a Virginia Commonwealth Conference after November 1. The only member is Fuqua though. Maybe they can find new members to join this conference. Again, I'm not sure who that would be from a geographic standpoint, but I guess that is an option.
-Play as an independent. From a scheduling standpoint, this may prove difficult as it is up to the VCC schools whether or not to play them if they are not in the conference.
-Find a new conference. Fuqua was a member of the VCC a long time ago, but left in the late 90's for the VIC/BRC. I'm not sure why they did that, but they rejoined the VCC maybe less than 10 years later. Geographically, that would be their next best fit. Beyond that, I have no idea what other conferences are even out in that part of the state. They might have to join a conference that requires a good deal of travel.
-Get new members to join their current conference. Depending on how you want to look at it, there is still technically a Virginia Commonwealth Conference after November 1. The only member is Fuqua though. Maybe they can find new members to join this conference. Again, I'm not sure who that would be from a geographic standpoint, but I guess that is an option.
...except Isle of Wight, Atlantic Shores, Portsmouth Christian, and (until this year) Hampton Christian.
I agree, that this will mostly affect their non-football sports, but they still play plenty of non-conference games with what's left of the VIC/BRC (which used to be much bigger than it is now). Also, there are a lot of new schools out in the Lynchburg-Roanoke 460 corridor which are just finding their feet athletically (Faith Christian, New Covenant) and some old schools who don't really fit in the VIC anymore (Timberlake Christian, Roanoke Valley Christian, Westover Christian). Fuqua will find a way to fill their schedules.
I don't rule them getting things worked out with the former VCC members if the mishandling of the situation is at least acknowledged.
Isle of Wight is a member of the VCC for football just as Broadwater was for a while, but as a school, they are still a member of the Metro Conference. Atlantic Shores' football team has no conference home, but as a school they are still a member of the Metro Conference. The only relationship Shores has with the TCIS is an informal one for 7th grade basketball.
Your original post made it sound like Broadwater has to be independent because none of the schools in the Metro Conference (Alliance, Shores, Denbigh, Hampton, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, StoneBridge, and Williamsburg) play football. Several of them actually do; last year over half of them did (Alliance, Shores, Broadwater, Hampton, Isle of Wight, and Portsmouth). They just don't want to play in a conference together in that sport; IWA's ties to the VCC are too strong and several Metro schools would rather prioritize soccer and XC in the fall than funnel the money and bodies into a football team.
It's not a matter of conference members not playing football-- it's that the Metro Conference doesn't have the infrastructure or the desire to sponsor a football championship.
Your original post made it sound like Broadwater has to be independent because none of the schools in the Metro Conference (Alliance, Shores, Denbigh, Hampton, Isle of Wight, Portsmouth, StoneBridge, and Williamsburg) play football. Several of them actually do; last year over half of them did (Alliance, Shores, Broadwater, Hampton, Isle of Wight, and Portsmouth). They just don't want to play in a conference together in that sport; IWA's ties to the VCC are too strong and several Metro schools would rather prioritize soccer and XC in the fall than funnel the money and bodies into a football team.
It's not a matter of conference members not playing football-- it's that the Metro Conference doesn't have the infrastructure or the desire to sponsor a football championship.
IWA also plays soccer in the VCC. Maybe Broadwater should look into becoming a football only member of the new VCC like IWA. Looking at your schedule, Broadwater already plays all the VCC schools with the exception of BSH and Kenston Forest. The VCC really gives a lot of stability to the football schedule and has some great rivalries. Broadwater was a long time member of the VAAC and then later the VCC, so it would be like coming home again for a lot of alumni.
As far as the Metro Conference goes, a football championship will never happen. Most the the Metro schools just don't care enough about football. Also, besides IWA, Shores, and Broadwater, you can't trust that the other Metro schools will really keep football around from year to year.
As far as the Metro Conference goes, a football championship will never happen. Most the the Metro schools just don't care enough about football. Also, besides IWA, Shores, and Broadwater, you can't trust that the other Metro schools will really keep football around from year to year.
It's hard to imagine the old VCC schools wanting to schedule them in the future if they went so far as to remove them from the conference.
After what has happened, is the football team still playing the two players in question? If Fuqua was taking responsibility for this, you'd think they wouldn't at this point.
Rumor has it that one of the players in question is related to the Athletic Director at Fuqua. I find that quite interesting. I guess that no one at VISAA has the "intestinal fortitude" to rule the players ineligible and they are going to let them get away with the infractions???
Roanoke Catholic plays an independent schedule against a mix of small public schools and a few D-4 schools they feel they can compete with. It ain't pretty but it can be done. What Fuqua will miss are the logical rivalries you get in a conference.
North Cross struggles with conference affiliation due to location and their closest opponents are anywhere from an hour and a half to two hours away. The Old Dominion Conference stretches from Urbana to Roanoke to St.Georges and North Cross is just glad the conference extended an invite given all of the other schools must now travel down I-81. Fuqua will have to travel regardless.
Can't resist one more poke at Roanoke Catholic. It sure would be nice for North Cross to play cross town rather than the back to back trips across the state to play IOW and Shores. For that matter, North Cross would gladly pick up Fuqua. At two hours, it would be the shortest road trip of the season...
North Cross struggles with conference affiliation due to location and their closest opponents are anywhere from an hour and a half to two hours away. The Old Dominion Conference stretches from Urbana to Roanoke to St.Georges and North Cross is just glad the conference extended an invite given all of the other schools must now travel down I-81. Fuqua will have to travel regardless.
Can't resist one more poke at Roanoke Catholic. It sure would be nice for North Cross to play cross town rather than the back to back trips across the state to play IOW and Shores. For that matter, North Cross would gladly pick up Fuqua. At two hours, it would be the shortest road trip of the season...
I don't think Fuqua will ever acknowledge they did anything wrong they are still trying to cover it up .On the previous post there was 2 link to articles on Fuqua's web site that have since been edited the one article the student in question has been removed the other article the word senior has been removed. Once football is over we move to basketball then baseball with the same 2 students this shouldn't be a conference problem this should fall back on the VISAA.Yes no one in the new conference has to play them during the regular season but could see them in the playoffs, again this is a VISAA problem but don't expect anything to be done so I guess everyone can use this year as a learning experience.
They're actually going back to old articles and EDITING them!? That is ridiculous. Hard to respect that school in the least little bit if they're pulling this kind of crap . . .
Nice point Chief62! I think Coach Alexander and his staff would welcome playing Fuqua or Catholic. Especially if they don't have to travel 2000 miles in a season to play away games. Regardless of the travel, if it makes sense for the team to play the staff will try to make it happen. And all indications - despite the current circumstances - point to it making sense. Why Catholic won't play or why its difficult to get this game scheduled is beyond me. Catholic competes in Div. IV and this is - by school numbers - the division where North Cross should be but elects to play DIII. So I'm like you... what's the issue.
If we have any Roanoke Catholic (fans) posters on this site who are close to the program and can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
If we have any Roanoke Catholic (fans) posters on this site who are close to the program and can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
There is no point in Catholic playing NC...NC recruits and offers scholarships to athletes from all the public schools around Roanoke. NC also reclassifies athletes (not based on academics). Catholic does not offer sports scholarships or reclass athletes. Thus, it creates an unfair playing field when comparing the much different philosophy's of the two schools. Why would Catholic choose to play NC when RC would always be at an unfair advantage....and what would NC be gaining by being able to play a school that they would walk all over in when it comes to football?
Roanoke Catholic plays Fuqua..... Do they not recruit and reclassify players??? As shady as they have been this year with their reclassified players, R.C. played them and pretty much manhandled them. So what that post means, is just play the teams who reclassify players who you think you can beat.
Weak argument. Catholic didn't schedule Fuqua KNOWING they were cheating. Otherwise, I highly doubt they would have. Fortunately, they were able to beat them anyway.
I agree, Wildcat. Weak argument. Fuqua/RC, at least historically, has always been a competitive game, with Fuqua winning some years and RCS winning in other years. The fact that Fuqua might reclassify players or actively recruit players has not made the yearly matchup a one-sided affair in Fuqua's favor every year. The North Cross/RC rivalry, on the other hand, became one-sided year after year once NC changed their philosophy and started actively recruiting football players from area public schools by offering athletic scholarships and reclassifying athletes. So, I would imagine the rivalry died once RC realized that there was no point in playing NC because neither side would benefit from a NC blowout year after year. It's too bad, because the RC/NC rivalry was awesome when both sides were playing with similar type athletes.
NC actively recruits players ,..really ?...so none of these parents or athletes come to NC wanting their sons and daughters to attend there ?
They give athletic scholarships ? May give financial aid but no athletic scholarships ..
Roanoke Catholic plays public schools but won't play NC ..NC has scrimmaged Parry McCluer the past two years
and RC plays them in regular season .
RC plays NC in basketball , why not football ?
Such a shame both schools in Star City and they can't reach an agreement to play football .
Quit making excuses and let's lace them up
They give athletic scholarships ? May give financial aid but no athletic scholarships ..
Roanoke Catholic plays public schools but won't play NC ..NC has scrimmaged Parry McCluer the past two years
and RC plays them in regular season .
RC plays NC in basketball , why not football ?
Such a shame both schools in Star City and they can't reach an agreement to play football .
Quit making excuses and let's lace them up
Given the very limited definition of recruiting in the VISAA handbook, it is unlikely that anyone is guilty of recruiting. The rule just says a school cannot approach an athlete for purposes of getting them to play sports. The player or player's family must approach them first. Coaches just need to make themselves available and parents and students make the connections. I think the current coaches at North Cross are well aware of the rules and their consistent program and college admissions success make them desirable. As for athletic scholarships, a quick look at the admissions statement on their website says that all students must complete a financial aid sheet to receive need based aid. The only scholarship I saw was an academic scholarship.
I deeply respect Muscaro but the reality is that the days of North Cross manhandling Catholic have been gone since their last state championship. Two years ago, North Cross had 14 players able to play for the entire season with 20 of 22 starting positions never having started a high school football game. This year North Cross starts two ninth graders and a 160 pound sophomore on their offensive line. Heck one of North Cross' best linemen last year is playing for Catholic this year.
My final comment, and I will leave it at this in hopes that the two teams can get together in a cross town rivalry, is you get better by playing competition that stretches you. You do not need to win all of your games to make the playoffs. Play up occasionally. Stretch yourself. Some times it backfires like a brutal beat down at Blue Ridge three years ago or a hot, tough night at Nansemond-Suffolk this past August. Sometimes you get a great win like STAB three years ago. If Catholic can schedule Perry McClure, then they will find North Cross much less physically demanding. How great would it have been for Catholic to play NCS this year and to have beaten them? It would have been huge for Catholic's football program but we will never know.
I deeply respect Muscaro but the reality is that the days of North Cross manhandling Catholic have been gone since their last state championship. Two years ago, North Cross had 14 players able to play for the entire season with 20 of 22 starting positions never having started a high school football game. This year North Cross starts two ninth graders and a 160 pound sophomore on their offensive line. Heck one of North Cross' best linemen last year is playing for Catholic this year.
My final comment, and I will leave it at this in hopes that the two teams can get together in a cross town rivalry, is you get better by playing competition that stretches you. You do not need to win all of your games to make the playoffs. Play up occasionally. Stretch yourself. Some times it backfires like a brutal beat down at Blue Ridge three years ago or a hot, tough night at Nansemond-Suffolk this past August. Sometimes you get a great win like STAB three years ago. If Catholic can schedule Perry McClure, then they will find North Cross much less physically demanding. How great would it have been for Catholic to play NCS this year and to have beaten them? It would have been huge for Catholic's football program but we will never know.
Great points Chief62.......
How bout it Catholic ?
Lets get these two schools back on the schedule ...
How bout it Catholic ?
Lets get these two schools back on the schedule ...
I love the "we don't offer scholarships, just financial aid" argument. That's all semantics. So, if NC determines that a really good running back from say, Salem High School, has a 98% "need" of financial aid...then isn't that the same thing as a scholarship? But instead of calling it an "athletic scholarship" it's called "financial aid." See? Tie that kind of thing in with the reclassification of athletes and it can just make the playing field, or court, unfair when competing with RC or other small private schools that don't recruit or reclass athletes. And the only reason RC plays NC in basketball is because they are required to...they are in the VIC together, so they are forced to play twice a season. But, while RC is putting out a couple TRUE seniors and a few juniors and sophomores on the floor this year, it appears that NC will have 3 re-classed seniors out of their starting 5 in basketball. Pretty sure NC will have at least 3 starters in basketball this year who will already be 19 or turn 19 at some point this season...which means NC will have half a PG team out there playing against other high school kids. Something about that just doesn't seem right, or fair, even though I know it's not against VISAA rules as long as they turn 19 after Aug 1. Why not double down even more? Meaning, what's to stop them or any other team from simply just re-classing 8-9 juniors, so they end up having an entire basketball or football team of 19 year olds - who are all a year bigger, a year faster, and a year stronger than their 18 year old counterparts at other small private schools. That's what PG years are for at Hargrave or FUMA, not winning titles in small private school leagues when they should be taking that year at the PG level.
Regarding football, it's basically the same principle. NC would simply run away with the game nearly every year. Maybe this year might have been different with RC coming out of nowhere, but that doesn't take away the last 5 years of beatings by NC or the fact that they would consistently blow RC out of the game in most years. It's a game that would provide no benefit to either team.
Regarding football, it's basically the same principle. NC would simply run away with the game nearly every year. Maybe this year might have been different with RC coming out of nowhere, but that doesn't take away the last 5 years of beatings by NC or the fact that they would consistently blow RC out of the game in most years. It's a game that would provide no benefit to either team.
But the sad thing is that so many schools are pulling this sort of thing. Unfortunately, there is no way to police it. I think the only thing that people can do is to disassociate themselves from schools they don't philosophically agree with and just refuse to play them.
North Cross does not give more than 85% financial aid and it has to be demonstrated need through a third party service. 15% aid plus fees and an iPad runs just over $4000 per year for high school. That is if they qualify for full financial need. That is close to full tuition at many Christian schools in the state and about have tuition at Roanoke Catholic. Are you saying there are no athletes at Catholic receiving half scholarships? Could be if they are lucky in attracting a relatively well to do clientele.
As for basketball and Catholic, glad to see that the only reason to play is because the conference forces you. North Cross has played Carlisle every year since they moved up a division with some bad forty point beat downs. Not because our philosophies are similar but you get better playing better teams. North Cross also played to a thirty point beat down at OakHill two years ago because of the challenge.
No question on the reclass. But did one player get invited walk on status at Richmond last year or has the extra year helped him get in to the colleg he wanted to attend? College admissions?
As for basketball and Catholic, glad to see that the only reason to play is because the conference forces you. North Cross has played Carlisle every year since they moved up a division with some bad forty point beat downs. Not because our philosophies are similar but you get better playing better teams. North Cross also played to a thirty point beat down at OakHill two years ago because of the challenge.
No question on the reclass. But did one player get invited walk on status at Richmond last year or has the extra year helped him get in to the colleg he wanted to attend? College admissions?
Can't speak for the economic side of RC, but I highly doubt they are offering 85% "need-based financial aid" to public school athletes to come RC. If they were, considering their location in Roanoke City, to their above-average education, it would seem reasonable that RC would be winning titles in all kinds of male sports. But, take football for instance, they've only been to one title game in the last 20 years....
And sure, in reality for basketball, there's no point in NC playing RC (same in football). Who benefits from that game? Who benefitted from the 24-2 first quarter last year in the last NC/RC game? How did NC get better? How did RC get better? I guess that's where you and I disagree...you think by playing up and getting waxed by 50 points by a team that's been put together by re-classed and recruited athletes is somehow a good thing or "makes you better." I just disagree. How does getting beat down by 50 by another team help the loser, or the winner? And, If I'm going to lose to a team by 50, I'd rather lose to a team of legit high school kids, not a bunch of re-classed seniors who should be playing in college.
All that being said, there was time that RC did what NC does (in basketball)....in the late 90s and early 2000s. The generous financial aid package that you speak of, the putting together of teams of re-classed kids to make runs at titles...The hiring of big name coaches (for this area) and assistant coaches to pull kids from the public schools...and whenever anyone asked, it was just "hey, but we're getting these kids better for college, we're giving him an extra year to hone his skills. And we're winning titles, right? What's to complain about?" RC won FIVE Div II state basketball titles in 8 years from 2000-2008, (and THREE Catholic State Titles) and RC played Oak Hill every year. RC also beat Dematha in 2003, played in the Arby's Classic, The Alhambra Classic, and played in the historical ArchBishop Molloy Tournament in New York. They beat up on all the public school teams in Roanoke and the surrounding area so bad that RC is still paying for it when it comes to scheduling. NC needs to be careful. While they haven't seen anywhere near the success that RC did in basketball, NC will need to be on constant guard from letting their athletic department run the school. Eventually, like RC did many years ago, you could end up with a bunch of athletes who don't care about representing your school, don't care about the school, want preferential treatment, and will basically just use you as a ticket to the next level.
And sure, in reality for basketball, there's no point in NC playing RC (same in football). Who benefits from that game? Who benefitted from the 24-2 first quarter last year in the last NC/RC game? How did NC get better? How did RC get better? I guess that's where you and I disagree...you think by playing up and getting waxed by 50 points by a team that's been put together by re-classed and recruited athletes is somehow a good thing or "makes you better." I just disagree. How does getting beat down by 50 by another team help the loser, or the winner? And, If I'm going to lose to a team by 50, I'd rather lose to a team of legit high school kids, not a bunch of re-classed seniors who should be playing in college.
All that being said, there was time that RC did what NC does (in basketball)....in the late 90s and early 2000s. The generous financial aid package that you speak of, the putting together of teams of re-classed kids to make runs at titles...The hiring of big name coaches (for this area) and assistant coaches to pull kids from the public schools...and whenever anyone asked, it was just "hey, but we're getting these kids better for college, we're giving him an extra year to hone his skills. And we're winning titles, right? What's to complain about?" RC won FIVE Div II state basketball titles in 8 years from 2000-2008, (and THREE Catholic State Titles) and RC played Oak Hill every year. RC also beat Dematha in 2003, played in the Arby's Classic, The Alhambra Classic, and played in the historical ArchBishop Molloy Tournament in New York. They beat up on all the public school teams in Roanoke and the surrounding area so bad that RC is still paying for it when it comes to scheduling. NC needs to be careful. While they haven't seen anywhere near the success that RC did in basketball, NC will need to be on constant guard from letting their athletic department run the school. Eventually, like RC did many years ago, you could end up with a bunch of athletes who don't care about representing your school, don't care about the school, want preferential treatment, and will basically just use you as a ticket to the next level.
First of all, no one is offered 85% aid as an inducement to attend school. Students must go through the admissions process then the financial aid process and they are offered aid. And what makes you think all of the athletes at North Cross are getting 85% aid? Catholic has the exact same statement for aid on their website as North Cross. My point was only that a student receiving 50% aid at North Cross could still be paying more than a student in the same grade at Catholic. They are making an equal financial commitment to the school.
Playing up makes you better because you may get blown out twice during the regular season but still manage a one point win in the state semi-finals. See Carlisle two years ago. You play because the Catholic fans were so loud and proud for their team that North Cross felt they had to play extra hard on their own home court, thus the 24-2 first quarter score.
I do not see North Cross falling in to the same trap they fell into six years ago or Catholic fell into ten years ago. The students they bring in reflect well on the school and there is no large scale importation of upper classmen. For that matter, here is no large scale departure of kids for other programs. Everyone seems pretty committed. The football team had one upper class transfer this year, unless you count an exchange student from Poland that had never seen football before. I checked the roster and 24 of the 29 kids on the roster were there for ninth grade. That leaves an exchange student from Poland, an international student from China, two transfers from Salem and a transfer from Floyd County. I hardly put North Cross in the category of bringing in hired guns to win state championships. If anything I think it shows a thoughtful approach to building a program.
Playing up makes you better because you may get blown out twice during the regular season but still manage a one point win in the state semi-finals. See Carlisle two years ago. You play because the Catholic fans were so loud and proud for their team that North Cross felt they had to play extra hard on their own home court, thus the 24-2 first quarter score.
I do not see North Cross falling in to the same trap they fell into six years ago or Catholic fell into ten years ago. The students they bring in reflect well on the school and there is no large scale importation of upper classmen. For that matter, here is no large scale departure of kids for other programs. Everyone seems pretty committed. The football team had one upper class transfer this year, unless you count an exchange student from Poland that had never seen football before. I checked the roster and 24 of the 29 kids on the roster were there for ninth grade. That leaves an exchange student from Poland, an international student from China, two transfers from Salem and a transfer from Floyd County. I hardly put North Cross in the category of bringing in hired guns to win state championships. If anything I think it shows a thoughtful approach to building a program.
I guess we should leave the financials alone when discussing either school, since neither you nor I know exactly what happens behind closed doors when it comes to who pays what and how much etc.
Playing up in basketball, a little bit, can make you better. Playing up against teams that will stomp you by 50 points does not make you better. You can't learn anything offensively or defensively from a 50 point blowout. And all it does psychologically is demoralize the players on the losing end, especially a 24-2 first quarter beating at the hands of your rival. NO good comes out of that. We're talking high school sports and CHILDREN here, - not DI college or pro sports. Beating a team into the ground should never be an option, in my opinion. Like in football, beating Hargrave by more than 50 points or beating VES by more than 50 points - there is absolutely no reason to do that to kids, in my opinion. I imagine that is why RC will continue to refuse to play NC in football - NC just happened to run the score up one too many times until RC reached a breaking point. Don't blame 'em. And, judging by what RC did this year in football, it would seem that they are scheduling things the right way.
As for hired guns -- hmmm-- one could say hired guns are just reclassing your 3 best basketball players- so now you have three 19 year old men playing against boys in basketball. I'd say you could call that having hired guns. You can bring up that allowing that 19 year old to beat up on other legit high school kids got him walk on status at Richmond - I guess that means it should be worth it. I wonder how all the other legit kids and teams they beat will feel about that. I guess they'll just say "well, we lost to a team that has several kids that should be in college, but I don't care that they dropped 100 on us since it helped the one guy get preferred walk on status at Richmond." Somehow, I just don't see that happening.... High school sports should be pure, not dirtied up by the stain of reclassed athletes beating up on legit kids.
Playing up in basketball, a little bit, can make you better. Playing up against teams that will stomp you by 50 points does not make you better. You can't learn anything offensively or defensively from a 50 point blowout. And all it does psychologically is demoralize the players on the losing end, especially a 24-2 first quarter beating at the hands of your rival. NO good comes out of that. We're talking high school sports and CHILDREN here, - not DI college or pro sports. Beating a team into the ground should never be an option, in my opinion. Like in football, beating Hargrave by more than 50 points or beating VES by more than 50 points - there is absolutely no reason to do that to kids, in my opinion. I imagine that is why RC will continue to refuse to play NC in football - NC just happened to run the score up one too many times until RC reached a breaking point. Don't blame 'em. And, judging by what RC did this year in football, it would seem that they are scheduling things the right way.
As for hired guns -- hmmm-- one could say hired guns are just reclassing your 3 best basketball players- so now you have three 19 year old men playing against boys in basketball. I'd say you could call that having hired guns. You can bring up that allowing that 19 year old to beat up on other legit high school kids got him walk on status at Richmond - I guess that means it should be worth it. I wonder how all the other legit kids and teams they beat will feel about that. I guess they'll just say "well, we lost to a team that has several kids that should be in college, but I don't care that they dropped 100 on us since it helped the one guy get preferred walk on status at Richmond." Somehow, I just don't see that happening.... High school sports should be pure, not dirtied up by the stain of reclassed athletes beating up on legit kids.
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