I would like to hear some opinions on what people feel it is going to take for the top teams in 4A West to compete come championship time with the top teams in 4A East. I am not looking for any arguments centered around speed and athleticism - I know speed and athleticism play a huge factor in determining the outcomes of the game and the East has an obvious OVERALL (I'm not saying there are not any players with great speed and athleticism in the West - but overall team speed has been an obvious advantage for teams in the East) advantage. As far as the East having more overall team speed and athleticism - that is what it is and it is going to change to overnight. I'm looking for some insight as to what teams in the West can do to overcome this disadvantage to put themselves in position to compete with the teams from the East. Any thoughts on this topic? I would like to hear from some guys in the East as well as to what they believe teams in the West can do to compete.
4A West vs. 4A East
- Thread starter NoVaKane8
- Start date
I knew that comment was coming. But I think to reduce how teams in 4A East dominate to genetics is undervaluing what those programs do overall. I'm not saying that's what you are doing Mr. Shauntclair - but I think it is a position taken by many. I am the first to admit that genetics are a key factor - but there are many other factors that go into what happens on Friday night. Teams in 4A West can't change their genetic landscape without mass immigration into their area - so what do they do in other facets of their program to close the gap?
You answered your own question, and I don't think teams in the East are coached better, it will happen one day. Right team and the right players , someday...
I hate this argument. I hear it in basketball also, Teams in the East are obviously not well coached yet win a lot of titles based on what? The coaches just show up and have unlimited athletes at their disposal and the coaches sit back and chill out. There are a lot of good coaches in the East and I guess the coaches in the West are better because they have less resources or players in some of your opinions? You should see the facilities in some of the East programs as compared to out west. Or maybe the fan support that kids in the East would kill to have on a daily basis. I don't think coaching is the problem there are a lot of well coached teams in the East and the West.
It wasn't long ago that broad run and briar woods won championships , not really west teams but not from tidewater or Richmond. things go in cycles , there will always be shifting trends. and there will be a west team win it eventually. it's only been two years.
When you get to the playoffs, and I've seen a whole lot of these games, the teams are all well Coached. East vs West doesn't matter from a Coaching perspective. Now, don't get me wrong. I've seen games won with less talent but better Coaching. But when you get to the end between two good Coach's, the smart money goes to the team's with the special athletes.
I really think this is pretty simple. In 4A, just watch the last two years of Championship games. If you don't think the winner dominated the loser, you're insane. Certainly, the Coaching played a part but that is NOT what won the games. The players won the games and they were head and shoulders better than the opponent. Even a bad Coach and game plan would not have lost the titles for these teams.
I'm sorry but I will disagree with your statement as that is a shot at all the staffs that participated in both state title games. Basically Sherando and Salem would have still lost the games if you took a guy off the corner and gave him the reigns of Dinwiddie and Lake Taylor and said go win it? I call BS on that as it takes Gameplanning and play calling to put your "athletes" in positions to make plays. Like I said after the game the kids call the defense, but that is because the coaching staff made sure they were well prepared throughout the week to do so. To run our offense (especially the QB) you have to be well prepared, and lastly if you knew the type of kids we have to work with DISCIPLINE is huge. Football and Girls Basketball have been the two major sports at our school to be competitive and they are both the most disciplined and hardest working coaches (Mr & Mrs. Sawyer) out of the sports at our school. Coach Mills does a great job at Dinwiddie and they have a great staff that utilized a great game plan to win it all last year. Honestly the game with Salem last year had nothing to do with special athletes and all to do with winning the game up front. Salem had over 100 yards rushing in the first quarter but didn't have over 100 yards for the rest of the game as our DL got penetration and our OL pushed them around up front. We had one play where we went bubble and up for a TD, but that was the first play off of a turnover as any good coach knows when you get a turnover take a shot!! We ran bubble screen 3x the previous drive so they sat on it and we caught them. But that had nothing to do with coaching!!
Broad Run, to a limited extent, and Briar Woods to a much larger extent were higher classification schools playing down by gaming the ADM.
Exactly a more recent case was In 2012 when we won it all in D5 and Bird in D6 Briar Woods the D4 champion had a higher enrollment then both of us. Now that they have to play similar enrolled teams they have remained a solid program making it back to the finals in 2013, but falling back to the pack now.
Obviously LT's speed was a big factor in the win over Salem, but I think I was most impressed with their line play. Not too many teams outplay Salem's lines. That's the product of hard work in the weight room and of good coaching. LT will be solid for a long time to come because they are well coached, have many great athletes with speed, and obviously put in the work throughout the year.
Devils 99 writes some controversial hyperbole on here at times but he is right about one issue. Talent without coaching will only take you so far. With the multitude of talent in the tidewater, how many teams are not coached up? How many players for LT were very good through hard work but were not division 1 size or speed? They were coached well, no doubt. Did I agree with some of the reaction from some of the coaches? No! But that does not mean that the players were not motivated and we'll coached. They were team oriented and good sportsmen.
There are a lot of teams in Tidewater that draw from neighborhoods or MS that have tremendous talent and success yet they can't win on the varsity level. I have a beach school in mind that by count has at least 4 D1 scholarship players, has been very successful in the past, yet will probably finish .500 this year. OL hands down is the class of the beach they have monopolized the talent out there, but this school should be top 3 on a yearly basis.
It still takes coaching and mutual trust between players and coaches. Buy into the system! LT did not beat Salem because of size speed and talent. It came down to trusting players to do their assignmnets and when the opportunity arrives... Make the play! After 5 months of practicing and coaching, you have to Trust in your systems. Both teams did not make too many adjustments for game planning. They stayed with their systems. Salem was convinced it did Not have to throw the ball to win, that eventually the 11 man LT front would break down by pounding the ball. Having a backup running back not hitting the hole and bouncing out hurt. LT played their Veer system knowing that eventually a defensive assignment would break down as it did. Football is the greatest sport because it still takes 22 guys doing their assignment and believing in each other and their coaches. LT got it done when the title was on the line. Kudos to that program.
The top teams across the state are well coached at eveyr level. Continuity of the coaching staff is a factor not to be overlooked.
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