Why have three decent players decided to transfer? Is it because the underclassmen are so good that they will not have the opportunity for much playing time? Or is it something more nefarious?
A little off topic, but what's going on with UVA basketball?
- Thread starter DinwiddieProud
- Start date
I think it may be their style of play. Very slow paced and defensive oriented (not exciting HAVOC or "40 minutes of hell" brand defense).. Those players who are transferring also know that UVA is starting to get in McDonald's All American players in and their minutes will be cut. Heck, the school with the undefeated football team on Broad St. in Richmond will take an UVA transfer or 2 or 3
Nothing nefarious in the least, and has zilch to do with style of play. Bennett has year-end interviews with each player at the conclusion of each season (as I would think all good head coaches do), evaluating their strengths, weaknesses, and - for those with eligibility left - the outlook for the future. From what I've read, Bennett is not one to sugar-coat, and lays things out with brutal honesty.
Jarred Reuter's transfer wasn't a surprise at all. He's got quick hands and some good post moves, but just doesn't have the height or athleticism to compete night in, night out against ACC post players. Reuter still has two years of eligibility left, and can probably get tons of playing time and make a big impact at a mid-major school.
Marial Shayok's and Darius Thompson's transfers both came as somewhat of a surprise. Thompson has already transferred once before, from UT after his freshman year. He is set to graduate this spring, so as a graduate transfer, he at least won't have to sit out another year before using his final year of eligibility.
Shayok and Thompson are both guard/wings, a position at which there was suddenly a logjam for the Cavs. They would have been competing for PT with Ty Jerome, Devon Hall, Kyle Guy, incoming recruit Marco Anthony, and DeAndre Hunter, who redshirted this year. As well as competing against each other. That would have been seven guys scrapping for 120 minutes a game (three positions x 40 minutes). Thompson and Shayok evidently didn't relish being caught in the glut at the one-, two-, and three-spots in the lineup.
Shayok's minutes were up and down this season, and he seems to have been more frustrated than Thompson. But it's the classic chicken-or-the-egg situation: did his inconsistent performance cause his playing time to drop, or did the up-and-down nature of his playing time lead to his inconsistent performance? We'll never know, now. It's a shame, because I always felt like something great was just on the horizon with Shayok, but we never quite saw it. He did have a great game against UNC-Wilmington in the round of 64 this year, scoring a career-high 23, and hitting a huge basket late in the game.
I've also read speculation that Shayok, playing against and seeing Hunter develop every day in practice for almost a year, had seen the writing on the wall in further reduced playing time with Hunter's emergence next year. Again, sheer speculation, but it might have some credence.
Both Thompson and Shayok had been in the program for three years. They know the system, and they know the way Bennett wants his team to play. Had they been disgruntled with the emphasis on defense and the slow pace of play, they wouldn't have stuck around this long. I think for both of them, it boiled down to this: with the likelihood of a further reduction of playing time in their final seasons - or at least no guarantee otherwise - the most desirable way of ensuring maximum playing time and greater scoring opportunities was to seek that in a situation at a different university. I think both Thompson and Shayok could excel not only at a mid-major, but also at any power conference school in the bottom half of whatever conference. A parallel might be drawn with KT Harrell, who played guard for two years in Bennett's first years at UVa. Harrell could see what affect Malcolm Brogdon's game was going to have on his own Cavalier career, so he set out for the greener pastures of Auburn - where he averaged around 18 points per game over his last two seasons. Auburn usually dwells in the lower reaches of the SEC, which - despite what's currently happening in the Madness - is typically nowhere near the ACC's level in basketball.
It's unfortunate none of these three guys will finish out their careers in the blue and orange, but transfers - in, out, and graduate - are just SOP in college basketball these days. Reuter, Shayok, and Thompson each had some big moments playing for UVa, and as someone who considers himself a fan, I appreciate their efforts. All three worked hard, did what was asked of them, and never betrayed any semblance of a bad attitude (that I could tell from TV, anyway). I wish all of them nothing but the best, and hope they have satisfying conclusions to their collegiate playing careers.
So no, not really much to see here. No real drama, that is. Transfers happen all over the place, all the time in college hoops - although three at once from one program is definitely outside the norm. In tangible effects, it will make the Hoos a little thinner in depth next season. And there will be more pressure on the second-years (Guy, Jerome, Mamadi Diakite) to take a big leap forward, and on the first-years (Hunter, Anthony, 6'11" Jay Huff) to contribute, and be ACC-ready right away. Don't be surprised to see Bennett try to land a graduate transfer or two of his own with the scholarships that have been freed up.
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Thanks for explaining. I went to 2 UVA games this year and it wasn't very enjoyable (Wake Forest and Press Virginia). UVA's style is unique (bland, unorthodox, but gets the job done). It will be very interesting to see how they play without Perrentes. IMO the loss of Brogdon was their fate this year. They were a little too Perrentes centered. Who will run the point next year? Hall? The Cavs will be in good shape but they will probably not be what they have been the past 4 years (ELITE). Bennett is probably top 5 best coaches in College Basketball (my top 5 anyway behind Calipari, Krzyzewski, Patino and Shaka Smart). Next year college basketball in general will be very good in the state of Virginia. UVA, Tech and VCU will again be the top dogs. Tech will have the most experience of the 3. Chris Clarke, Zach LeDay, Bibbs, Ty Outlaw and Justin Robinson ALL return. I wouldn't be surprised to see UR, George Mason and ODU be in the NCAA tourney conversation as well. ODU has the best shot as their conference loses a lot in terms of coaches and players (Rice and Middle Tennessee will be hit the hardest). Mason could possibly be better than VCU and UR is quietly but surely becoming a premier team in the A-10. Luckily it will be settled on the court as VCU plays UVA and UVA plays Tech 2x. It will be a very fun year.
As discussed in another thread, the biggest blow to Virginia's 2016-17 season was the dismissal of Austin Nichols after the second game, back in November. The team was going to be centered around Nichol's low post scoring and presence on offense, and around his ability to protect the rim on defense. The Cavs did lose a ton from last year in Brogdon, Mike Tobey (played for Charlotte in NBA), and Anthony Gill (playing pro ball in Turkey), but Nichols was going to bridge the gap for at least one year, probably two. When Bennett dismissed Nichols permanently for repeated violation of team rules, the outlook for the year just concluded went from "potential Final Four participant" to "barely Top 25". I give Bennett lots of credit for having the huge amount of guts it took to stick to his principles and make that decision. How many other coaches in the big business of power conference college basketball would have had the integrity to kiss a possible chance at the Final Four goodbye? Bennett's mistake seems to have been in only having one top-notch post player available - in essence, putting all his eggs in one basket.
Without a viable scorer in the post to at least keep defenses honest, it was all too easy for UVa's opponents to pressure the perimeter. Hence, Perrantes - who is really much more of a distributor than a scorer to begin with - struggled a lot, as did the rest of the shooters. The other big blow was Isaiah Wilkins's illness. Wilkins, in Nichol's absence, became the best interior defender and rebounder, and added a ton in the intangibles of hustle, attitude, etc. He suffered from strep throat and a mystery virus for the last four weeks of the season. When an already-fragile team basically lost their most important player - well, things on the court got ugly.The worrying thing is, Wilkins actually got worse over time, to the point where he could barely play in the ACC tournament, and didn't play in the two NCAA games (aside from four minutes in the first round). He is a crucial piece of the puzzle for next year, and the concern now is will he be able to recover physically from whatever it is ailing him - he's dropped twenty pounds, and has lost a lot in strength and conditioning. Never mind basketball - I just hope he gets well!
Virginia's style is a matter of personal taste. Many casual fans, thinking "great basketball" only consists of games in the 80's and 90's where not a lick of D is played, don't appreciate it. This is somewhat akin to how some posters on VaPreps think every team needs to run the spread and pass fifty times a game. From what I've heard and read, however, a lot of coaches and basketball purists tend to admire Virginia's approach. They can appreciate the precision, discipline, and most of all, the team-first approach. When Bobby Knight was still doing color analysis on TV a few years ago, he gushed over Perrantes play at the point, and went on for two or three minutes just about UVa players' defensive stances.
Of course, Bennett's system does have its shortcomings, as all systems do. The key principle on offense is to get the best shot possible. This is why Virginia is usually among the nation's leaders in offensive efficiency, as measured by things like Ken Pomeroy's ratings. However, I think the searching for the best shot possible many times leads to the players passing up on a lot of good shot opportunities. And when almost everyone is throwing up airballs, a la last week's tourney game with Florida, it can get damn ugly. Downright embarrassing. I will admit that as much as I pull for the team, I do often wonder how a program that consistently dwells in the top half of a power conference can be so lacking in the basic skill of shooting the basketball. From what I've read over the past week, coach Bennett is very aware that things need to be adjusted on the offensive side of the court. It will be interesting to see if he's able to do that next year, even if that means having to sacrifice a little bit of defensive efficiency.
The beauty of college basketball is the variety of styles and approaches to the game that coaches take. As I do in football, I prefer teams that emphasize defense. Defense is hard work, and requires dedication and discipline. I'll admit, games like the ones UNC and Duke played against each other this year are entertaining, but there was very little high-level defense being played there. For the foreseeable future, those two teams are always going to have more talent on the court than Virginia is, and for us Hoo fans, that's just a harsh fact of life. But being able to hold Carolina to 43 points, when they averaged twice that, is how UVa can stay in contention at the top of the conference. The key difference, I think, is that in football, especially high school football, defense alone can win a championship. I don't think that's true in college basketball, where the very best players are going to score regardless of how good the defense is. Which I think is why adding some more offense to the mix is critical for UVa, if they want to contend for Final Fours and national titles. I get that their style doesn't appeal to everyone. As I said, it's a matter of personal taste and opinion. I myself find something like Havoc or "press Virginia" rather gimmicky, and with Texas having finished 11-22 (4-14) this year, I have to wonder if Smart (who is an excellent coach) is going to be the latest in the line of VCU coaches who went from mid-major success to power conference obscurity. But, all that is just my own opinion.
Virginia will still have the same glaring weakness in the low post next year. However, if they get a lot of development from Jack Salt and Diakite, much of that weakness will be ameliorated. As I said above, improvement in the first- and second-years will be critical. I look for Jerome to play the point, with Hall (who was recruited as a point guard) to back him up, while probably starting as a 2/3. Some have speculated that Marco Anthony will play a lot at point, but it remains to be seen if he'll be ready to do so against ACC competition. If all the hoped-for development and improvement occurs, UVa should be better next year than they were this year. However - just one key injury, and it could very well be another struggle.
Zach LeDay is gone, BTW. Seth LeDay, his younger brother, transferred in from a junior college, I believe, and will play for VPI next year.
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Excellent observations and analysis on UVA basketball with an addition of thoughts added on VCU. Thanks for starting this thread DinwiddieProud, as I have thought just a little on it as well.
Basketball is not one of my main areas of focus. However, my two favorite basketball teams are these, as I was raised a Hoo and have a degree from VCU.
DanvilleSportsHead and I had a great recent discussion about VCU during the 1A basketball tournaments. Someone disagreed with my thoughts on Smart leaving VCU where he and his family were truly beloved (I welcome dissent as it encourages thought). I stand by it and it sounds like you may agree, SpartanOFYore, as well.
I am also of the opinion that former VCU coach Will Wade leaving for LSU will turn out to be a difficult and, perhaps, unwise career choice in this case.
I think of the great Napoleon Bonaparte with almost all of Europe under his powerful control before turning his unchecked ambitions towards Russia.
Chip Kelly was considered a football genius until he took his "talents" to the NFL. I think of Nick Saban's career path that led him back to the college ranks and onto immense glory and greatness at the University of Alabama.
There is a reason the great Coach K has never left his kingdom at Duke University...
Impressed with Spartan of yor hoops knowledge. He is right on the money. As far as Danville sports head knowledge, he should just watch NBA all star games. They play zero defense. That seems to be what he likes. I've always liked defense. Football or basketball. Offense is overrated. Give me a team that will shut you down and kick your butt
Cavs1, isn't DSH just a great guy? He will make his family and himself proud, where ever life leads him.
As an older business man, a lot of younger guys have come to me to ask my advice about running a small business. The #2 thing I always tell them is to identify their nich. Recognize what they do well and focus on that. And don't be afraid to step out a little, but never do so if it leaves you vulnerable, if it goes bad.
I think that is similar to what you are saying about coaches.
(Incidentally, my number one piece of advice is cash flow, cash flow, cash flow.)
As an older business man, a lot of younger guys have come to me to ask my advice about running a small business. The #2 thing I always tell them is to identify their nich. Recognize what they do well and focus on that. And don't be afraid to step out a little, but never do so if it leaves you vulnerable, if it goes bad.
I think that is similar to what you are saying about coaches.
(Incidentally, my number one piece of advice is cash flow, cash flow, cash flow.)
Great to see you join the discussion my friend! Shaka will turn the Longhorns around soon , but that's if he doesn't leave to go to Georgetown. Wade made Shaka look like a saint after his ugly departure last week. I think a lot of people in the VCU community appreciates the way Shaka handled his departure. Our Rams will be very good next year. I know some things that I can't discuss right now about next year, but just know that YOU DON'T WANNA GO TO WAR, WITH THE RAMS!!!!!
I like it Spartan but you and I will disagree on the defensive aspect. Me, I LOVE defense. Hell I'm a VCU die heart, I eat, breath and sleep HAVOC. I love full 94 feet of hell! Sadly, VCU have gotten away from that in the past 4 seasons and our wins have suffered. As you said, it is more of personal preference, but just because someone doesn't like the boring Syracuse 2-3 zone or watching UVA win 34-31, doesn't mean that they don't appreciate good defense. If you look at the last 8 teams remaining now, they are all a mixture of offense and defense, something that both VCU and UVA lacked. Until UVA adds a little flavor, I don't see them competing with the Kentucky's, Kansas's or any athletic teams they play late in March.. The Florida game proves my theory. Maybe that's just me!
UVa at full strength (healthy Wilkins) could and would have competed with Florida, this year. And as I already noted, they beat UNC and Louisville (twice) this year, and have regularly competed with and beaten other teams that were probably more athletic than themselves over the last four seasons. Hence two ACC regular season championships, an ACC tourney crown, an Elite Eight and a couple of Sweet Sixteens. You don't accomplish all that without beating teams of good athletes along the way. I think that's probably the whole idea behind the packline defense and a disciplined, lower-possession offense: that approach affords a team like UVa, that isn't loaded with four- and five-star talent, a much better chance of winning against teams that are.
If by "flavor", you mean "shoot the ball better," I've already indicated I agree with that. As I heard Roy Williams say last night, when you make shots, everything looks a lot better. When a team shoots 29%, as UVa did against Florida, they're going to be hard-pressed to beat anybody. Bennett's big challenge is to loosen up the offense to some degree, but not lose defensive intensity and efficiency by doing so.
As for Kansas, UCLA, and especially Kentucky and Duke, those are the schools that have most fully embraced the one-and-done culture. And I absolutely despise that. IMHO the one-and-dones are ruining the sport, and being able to essentially get one free year of preparation for the NBA is counter to everything that college athletics is supposed to be about. Yes, I'm fully aware that that's a hopelessly anachronistic viewpoint; just call me old-fashioned. Anyway, I am completely thrilled when any of the schools that feature one-and-dones lose. Again, especially Duke, who looked like they had basically bought themselves another title this year, to go along with the one they purchased two years ago. Such a shame that didn't work out for them.
My point here is, to consistently beat those schools - which no one is doing - a coach and program would have to appeal to and land the one-and-done type recruit. I can't really see Virginia's system appealing to a player who just wants a one-season NBA audition, but if it ever did, I'd have grave misgivings about Bennett going that route. Even though one-and-dones are currently within the rules, I basically view it as cheating. And I would prefer the team I support lose with integrity rather than win by cheating. Of course, it is a big business, so if a top blue-chipper with immediate NBA aspirations ever showed up in Charlottesville, I imagine the welcome mat would probably be out. Regardless of my opinion of the ethics involved. No one hands out any accolades or trophies for just doing things the right way. If they did, my own alma mater, W&M, would have an overflowing trophy case for football and basketball - instead of a lot of cobwebs.
Spartanofyor right on the money again. Look for Huff to have a big influence next year. He can score facing the basket and will be a great rim protector
Just my 2 cents but losing Shayock will hurt. We really need hunter and the new freshman from Tx to be able to score. Totally love Tony B. and our attention to defense, but we have to now acknoledge that the lack of offense becoming our demise. For at least the last 3 years. This year UVA had games where we just didn't show up at all. A lot of our personel just didn't look comfortable with the ball in their hands. The object of the game is to put the ball in the basket. I think its time to get some big time athletes in the program but our style is not the most attractive to an offense player. What is wrong with great D and actually trying to score? I feel as though UVA is on the cusps of both taking the next step and also falling all the way down. The pitch is... we are on the cusps of greatness, we desperately need scoring, never really had a true superstar so you will be revered... come be that guy! Toney B. Is an excellent coach and he may be the best coach in the country at improving players once they enter the program, but college is about recruiting. He needs to land a few blue chippers... we have the resume and some def roster holes.
Time to step up or fall back.
Time to step up or fall back.
Need some inside play in order for the offensive efficiency to get back to where it was two years ago. Hunter and huff will help. UVA will not miss any of the three that left. Especially after they pick up two this spring
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Very impressed with Spartanofyor hoops knowledge. He really knows what he is talking about. Respect.
Thanks, but it's probably all smoke and mirrors. All I know is what I read on the Internet. LOL
Thanks you DP for your kind words! I was thrilled to have UVACavs1 on these boards when he told me he's a fellow Ram! It's 3 of us on here now! Us Rams must stick together
. I have to meet your brother-in-law who you said is a die heart Rams fan one day! When I was in Pittsburgh me and an alum spent my all time new record of 2 consecutive hours talking VCU basketball!! I'm loving the thread btw. Spartan knows his stuff!!Well you are reading the right stuff. You were right on target. Couldn't have added a thing to your analysis except for how Huff may solve some of the offensive efficiency problems. However, they desperately need a threat on the low block that can score. The perimeter players will improve dramatically once there is a low block threat
Well, as you indicate, most or all of the pain felt from the loss of Shayok and Thompson will be eased if Hunter and Anthony can add some scoring punch. And if Jerome, Hall, and Guy - who needs to spend some serious time in the weight room - can consistently get to the rim and finish.
And for heaven's sake - NO INJURIES!! (Knock on wood)
Virginia's offense undeniably looked putrid at times this year, mostly for the reasons I talked about, above. I think the season ending losses can be chalked up to other factors. In 2014, UVa was locked up in a rock fight with Michigan State, who was the consensus pick to go all the way, despite being a four seed. Anthony Gill twisted his ankle with about seven minutes left; MSU had their way inside after that, and won by two. 2015, UVa was humming along on offense and defense. Then came Justin Anderson's broken finger and appendectomy; more heartbreak ensued. And last year was just a massive choke, as much as I hate using that ugly word. Fifteen points up with 9:30 to go to get to the Final Four. Boeheim went to a full court press out of desperation, and even admitted afterwards that he had no expectations that would work. But, darned if UVa didn't make several bad decisions on fast breaks, while Syracuse suddenly got white got from three. Still haven't gotten over that one, and probably won't. That game just crossed my mind as I'm sitting here watching Gonzaga in the same situation. Looks like the Zags might hold on.
Again, I don't disagree with you and DSH that Virginia could stand to kick it up a bit (or more) on offense. I just don't think the overall situation is all that dire. Injuries and bad luck have taken their toll as much as anything else, IMHO. Remember, Virginia beat both Villanova and UNC last year - the two teams that played for the title. One year, the stars will finally align, and there will be great joy in Hooville. I think UVa is still much closer to that point than they are to sliding back to where they were pre-Bennett. Keep the faith, man!
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing both Huff and Hunter in action in November. Huff supposedly has a bit of fire to him, which is another thing they could use at times.
Don't know which is harder - the eight month wait from December to August, or the same period of time from March to November.
We can both agree that the one and done culture is hurting the game of basketball. The NBA is absolutely atrocious. I don't watch it, it's garbage and it's fixed. The young guys that come out, 9.6 times out of 10 isn't ready for that stage. There should be a required 2-3 year minimum that these guys should have to stay in the collegiate level or play in the development league for 2-3 years out of high school if they are not academically inclined. The thing with Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, etc is that they have RELOADED and they sell recruits on being able to constantly produce NBA draft picks. I am disappointed that Coach K has sold the Duke program to this one and done culture.
And Spartan, my Rams will soon show the world that HAVOC is no gimmick . 7 and soon to be 8 straight NCAA tournament appearances and 1 Final 4. HAVOC was absent for the most part the past 3 years and our wins and NCAA wins have suffered but it will be in full force with Coach Rhoades here on Broad St! I'm expecting my words will be backed up as we will have a coming out party when the Cavs come here in November. I may sound bias but there will be a lot of teams that will get bit by HAVOC in the coming future.
. 7 and soon to be 8 straight NCAA tournament appearances and 1 Final 4. HAVOC was absent for the most part the past 3 years and our wins and NCAA wins have suffered but it will be in full force with Coach Rhoades here on Broad St! I'm expecting my words will be backed up as we will have a coming out party when the Cavs come here in November. I may sound bias but there will be a lot of teams that will get bit by HAVOC in the coming future.Gill was a transfer from South Carolina and he gave UVA a great inside threat. This is what was missing this year, that and some better foul shooting in some close games. I think Huff is 7 foot tall but likes to face the basket. Mamadi is 6 9 but again is not a back to the bucket on the block player. This is what UVA must acquire
Yeah, I definitely agree that players should either stay a minimum of three years, or go straight to the D league.
I have a lot of respect for what VCU has been able to accomplish. It's not easy being a top mid-major; most big boys will refuse to play you, especially at your place. That's another thing Bennett has done that I like - agree to a home-and-home series with the Rams. I saw Mike Rhoades' Randolph-Macon teams play here in Salem several times. I think he could be a good hire for VCU; sounds like plans on playing a Havoc-like style. Your thoughts on Rhoades?
http://www.richmond.com/sports/coll...cle_2f5bbe62-bfc4-5ef8-8eeb-82c389e98d7c.html
Sorry, hadn't seen your post right above yet.
@SpartanOfYore can't disagree with anything you said... but let me play the less optimistic side of the coin.
Totally agree with you on the past seasons and injuries... Don't get me started on that Syracuse game.
As for this year, IMHO we got lucky to have as many wins as we did. There were times we looked really good but what I realized especially in the first half of the season was we had like 7 players who could hit the 3 in bunches on the regular. We were shooting out of our minds in some of those wins. The well went dry though and collapses happened.
So next years outlook:
DeAndre Hunter getting red-shirted makes sense given that we already had 4 other position players just like him. What is troubling is that Tony Bennet didn't think that Jay Huff would be able to contribute on a severely depleted roster of bigs (with or without nichols) as a 6-11 freshman. If you take a look at what is coming back in terms of big men in the ACC, Huff best case scenario would be a lower to mid tier big and even that might be reaching. We were actually inserting Reuters into the game in the low post for offensive reasons at the end of the season!!
Diakete - looks uncomfortable now offensively facing the basket which was a strong point for him in high school. Plays stiff now!
Kyle Guy - can't be on the floor unless his jumper is falling but has a high celling.
Tye Jerome - is really the only 'every down back" IMO. Even if his jumper is not falling he still has value offensively.
Salt - When he catches the ball it is like a newborn baby.
Hall - scores a lot of helter-skelter points and gets to the line. Good to have in rotation but I don't think he is a very good offensive player in the grand scheme of things.
Wilkins - did digress by end of season but he at least looks like a D1 athlete out there. I think he can get his head in the game and make an impact
Marco Anthony game reminds me of Thompson who just transferred. He "big-boys & bullies" sleeker guards but I am not sure he is going to be a good offensive player yet in the ACC.
I think Buzz Williams being in state is challenging now too bc he has a knack for sneaking recruits that he shouldn't be able to land. We really need our 2018 class to be top notch. We really needed to land Matt Coleman with Perentes graduating but he selected TX even though he is a VA kid. UVA also needs to land oak hill center David McCormack who flew under the radar to the major Duke's of the world. We should have a good shot at him. With all the talent in the state public / private / post grad / and 2 or 3 loaded AAU teams we should be able to get at least 1-2 4 star recruits and that is absolutely what it takes to take the next step. Taking C players and Turning them into B's can only get you so far.
IMO we need to pivot a little, after all it is a changing world. I value UVA's old school mentality in terms of program but we need to evolve too to keep up. We also need to land a few transfers to be in the hunt next year or I don't think what we have will cut it.
Totally agree with you on the past seasons and injuries... Don't get me started on that Syracuse game.
As for this year, IMHO we got lucky to have as many wins as we did. There were times we looked really good but what I realized especially in the first half of the season was we had like 7 players who could hit the 3 in bunches on the regular. We were shooting out of our minds in some of those wins. The well went dry though and collapses happened.
So next years outlook:
DeAndre Hunter getting red-shirted makes sense given that we already had 4 other position players just like him. What is troubling is that Tony Bennet didn't think that Jay Huff would be able to contribute on a severely depleted roster of bigs (with or without nichols) as a 6-11 freshman. If you take a look at what is coming back in terms of big men in the ACC, Huff best case scenario would be a lower to mid tier big and even that might be reaching. We were actually inserting Reuters into the game in the low post for offensive reasons at the end of the season!!
Diakete - looks uncomfortable now offensively facing the basket which was a strong point for him in high school. Plays stiff now!
Kyle Guy - can't be on the floor unless his jumper is falling but has a high celling.
Tye Jerome - is really the only 'every down back" IMO. Even if his jumper is not falling he still has value offensively.
Salt - When he catches the ball it is like a newborn baby.
Hall - scores a lot of helter-skelter points and gets to the line. Good to have in rotation but I don't think he is a very good offensive player in the grand scheme of things.
Wilkins - did digress by end of season but he at least looks like a D1 athlete out there. I think he can get his head in the game and make an impact
Marco Anthony game reminds me of Thompson who just transferred. He "big-boys & bullies" sleeker guards but I am not sure he is going to be a good offensive player yet in the ACC.
I think Buzz Williams being in state is challenging now too bc he has a knack for sneaking recruits that he shouldn't be able to land. We really need our 2018 class to be top notch. We really needed to land Matt Coleman with Perentes graduating but he selected TX even though he is a VA kid. UVA also needs to land oak hill center David McCormack who flew under the radar to the major Duke's of the world. We should have a good shot at him. With all the talent in the state public / private / post grad / and 2 or 3 loaded AAU teams we should be able to get at least 1-2 4 star recruits and that is absolutely what it takes to take the next step. Taking C players and Turning them into B's can only get you so far.
IMO we need to pivot a little, after all it is a changing world. I value UVA's old school mentality in terms of program but we need to evolve too to keep up. We also need to land a few transfers to be in the hunt next year or I don't think what we have will cut it.
You definitely know your stuff Spartan, I'd love to buy you a beer and talk ball! I love Rhoades. Was up in air on him but after I went to his press conference the other day at Siegel Center, I'm in love. He's a good man and he will build character guys. He runs an exciting offense and he will incorporate HAVOC on defense. He called VCU home and he will be here for life. I never liked Will Wade. We lost a lot of games on his ego as he tried hard not to stand in Shaka's shadow. To hear that his current players reached out to him before he left for LSU last week and he left them and his assistants without even telling them.. I'll just say that you don't go far in life with those morals and character traits. I hope we get to play LSU in Maui this November that's all I'll say! The Cavs and Rams will be in great shape! Jay Huff is the real deal and he will be a major factor next year along with Kyle Guy. We have some guys that will be able to counter those McDonald's All Americans the HOOS' attack!
Good post, and nice summaries of the players. I actually chuckled at your line about Salt. For a guy who looks like Dolph Lundgren from "Rocky IV," he sure can be weak with the ball. About the best that can be said of Jack's offensive skills is that he showed a few flashes of adequacy. Salt was a project, one of the C-to-B players you mentioned. And that was okay, because Nichols was supposed to be there. Then all of a sudden, Salt was the thrust into a prime time role in the post, which is not good. My hope is that Jack can take an Akil Mitchell- or Darion Atkins-type leap next year. He is a good athlete, just not very skilled offensively. But you're right - they definitely can't rely on Salt improving from "barely adequate" to "kind of decent." A good grad transfer would really go a long way.
Wilkins is a big key. I think he's the main "glue guy". What stinks is, he's going to spend half of his off-season just working to get back to where he was physically. Doesn't leave much time for actual improvement beyond that. As I said in my earlier post, I just hope he can make a full recovery from this ever-lingering malady.
From what I've read of Huff, the staff just didn't think he was physically ready for the rigors of big-time ball. I've also read that Bennett was very tempted to remove Huff's red shirt. As southbottom has said, it doesn't even sound like Huff is a low post kind of player. He sounds more like a stretch-four type with great shooting range.
I'm just hoping for a lot of development from all of the returning players. If we see that, and decent contribution from the three new guys, I think we're looking at a slightly more successful season than the one just concluded. If that improvement doesn't happen, we're probably looking at a bubble team, at best. And of course, I'm all for getting all the good recruits we can.
Never been a beer drinker, but I have been known to quaff a hard cider or two.
December to August is sheer torture for me. March to November is just painful!
Great information guys. Extremely insightful.
DSH, my crazy brother in law has been retired for about a year now. When he is not off on a cruise or something, he is always ready to go to anything sports related. So, I'm sure I will hook you two up sometime in the near future.
DSH, my crazy brother in law has been retired for about a year now. When he is not off on a cruise or something, he is always ready to go to anything sports related. So, I'm sure I will hook you two up sometime in the near future.
"Ameliorated!" I have to admit Spartan, you sent me to the dictionary on that one. I knew what it meant from the way you used it in the sentence, but it wasn't in my vernacular.
Yes I agree with DanvilleSportsHead - superb, intelligent thread. Va Preps at its finest. I'm glad I stumbled upon it. I follow mostly the old Region A from Group A sports scene as I hail from the beautiful riverlands of the Northern Neck area of Virginia.
Danville, I also am pulling for Shaka to succeed and to turn it around. As I mentioned before, I enjoyed studying his coaching methods, innovations, and styles. I was saddened to see him go as were all VCU supporters. I certainly understand why he left us and to each his own path.
However, question for all - and yes, I understand the money, power, and lure of the major 5 conference powers- but really, how much more happiness can 3 million bring you compared to 1.2 million or so?
1) Does Smart really have a better chance now of reaching the Final Four or earning a national Championship than if he had stayed at VCU, with the national TV following, excitement & momentum he was building?
2) Let's say one day Smart wins a National Championship at Texas or some other huge top college power. Wonderful job, but he would be just another great coach from a Power 5 conference who won a title with unlimited resources, money, power, influence, networking, and easy access to the nation's top recruits etc.
On the other hand, had Smart stayed with VCU where he already was a beloved image of a region and gone back to the Final Four (maybe even won it all one day), turning the Rams from a mid-major level program into a national power, Shaka Smart would have become a sports idol, a hero and he would have become a living Sports legend in his own time..
Interesting the choices people make in life....
Danville, I also am pulling for Shaka to succeed and to turn it around. As I mentioned before, I enjoyed studying his coaching methods, innovations, and styles. I was saddened to see him go as were all VCU supporters. I certainly understand why he left us and to each his own path.
However, question for all - and yes, I understand the money, power, and lure of the major 5 conference powers- but really, how much more happiness can 3 million bring you compared to 1.2 million or so?
1) Does Smart really have a better chance now of reaching the Final Four or earning a national Championship than if he had stayed at VCU, with the national TV following, excitement & momentum he was building?
2) Let's say one day Smart wins a National Championship at Texas or some other huge top college power. Wonderful job, but he would be just another great coach from a Power 5 conference who won a title with unlimited resources, money, power, influence, networking, and easy access to the nation's top recruits etc.
On the other hand, had Smart stayed with VCU where he already was a beloved image of a region and gone back to the Final Four (maybe even won it all one day), turning the Rams from a mid-major level program into a national power, Shaka Smart would have become a sports idol, a hero and he would have become a living Sports legend in his own time..
Interesting the choices people make in life....
"Ameliorated!" I have to admit Spartan, you sent me to the dictionary on that one. I knew what it meant from the way you used it in the sentence, but it wasn't in my vernacular.
I just picked that one up in the last couple of years, myself.
Unfortunately I learned this one a number of years ago because of my MS symptoms. Anything I tried to do to ameliorate them always seemed to exacerbate them instead."Ameliorated!" I have to admit Spartan, you sent me to the dictionary on that one. I knew what it meant from the way you used it in the sentence, but it wasn't in my vernacular.
You are out of your mind. One of the best coaches in the country, lucky to have him. Probably need to raise his salary to over three million.
That's absurb. I'm assuming you only said that, without substantiation, to "stir the pot"?
Yeah by no means am I ready to bail on Tony Bennet. Tht is a bit extreme. Given his age, and the age of other aging coaching legends there are not too many coaches I'd reather have than TB.
Totally agree with DSH and Spartan tht one and done's has ruined college basketball. They should make you do at least 2 years.
With that being said, I don't see that happening. So if you dont land a one and done-er every now and then you are essentially saying we are not trying to win a national championship.
I don't love it either. Just like I don't like that my Smart phone makes me basically at work 24-7.... but I still have a cell phone!
Do we really want to see carolina and Duke 360 dunking on our heads for the next 5 years. Buzz is trying to land them too. Imagine if va tech starts landing them. I bet some will re-evaluate then.
Youtube Zion Williamson who will no doubt go to Duke, NC or kent. Do we really want to pin our competitve hopes on Jay huff developing?
We are at the stage now where we need to decide do we want to win the national championship and be a major player or are we fine with a elite 8 birth every 5th year.
I say we go for it. The window is small and its gotta start now!
"No one hands out any accolades or trophies for just doing things the right way. If they did, my own alma mater, W&M, would have an overflowing trophy case for football and basketball - instead of a lot of cobwebs."
SpartanOfYore, sadly, I am with you on that brother.
All this talk of one and done players (yes, I agree with the other sentiments about that topic, what a joke it has made of College Basketball imo).
Again, everyone has the right to take their on path, but that doesn't make it right.
If I had been a local basketball star, I would have considered staying local and maybe playing for a great academic institution like William and Mary.
One day the Tribe will make it to the big dance, why not be the one who helps them and become a part of Virginia sports history?
SpartanOfYore, sadly, I am with you on that brother.
All this talk of one and done players (yes, I agree with the other sentiments about that topic, what a joke it has made of College Basketball imo).
Again, everyone has the right to take their on path, but that doesn't make it right.
If I had been a local basketball star, I would have considered staying local and maybe playing for a great academic institution like William and Mary.
One day the Tribe will make it to the big dance, why not be the one who helps them and become a part of Virginia sports history?
Shaka will be just fine my friend! I hope when he and Texas comes to the Siegel Center in December, we'll give him and standing ovation plus more... I think Shaka regrets his decision but life goes on. At least he was a man and went and looked at his players in the eye and said, "hey guys I'm leaving". He never once bad mouthed our players in interviews or our fans. He didn't physically man handle his players or belittle them. Can't say the same about that last Coach we had. I'm happy with Rhoades and I'm sure you'll like him as well. He's been working his tail off! He's just a class act with a beautiful family. He's glad to be here and will stay for a very very long time! I love the guy just as much as I loved Shaka! This year could be very very very special! Dayton lost all of their players plus Archie to Indiana and the A-10 was predominantly senior ruled last year except for Us and Rhode Island. We get UVA, Texas, the Maui Invitation, and Rhode Island at home! Our RPI should be the best ever!!!! If we can win and not lose to teams like Fordham and UMass, we could be a 5-6 seed come tourney time with what we have coming back and if the rumors I'm hearing from sources are true. It's a great time to be a VCU fan!
