Changing landscape
- Thread starter mike salem
- Start date
My son and daughter between them have three sons. Though I would love to see them play football none of them will per their parents- they play other sports. This is a trend I see all over my area here. The safety and long term health issues is leading to a decline in football at the high school level in the number of participates here. I agree, it is now not the game I played in 1967-69! I am not even sure in 10-20 years if it will widely exist as we know it today, great article about the current crisis in football at the local level.
I love football. I wish our brains had seat belts so we didn't have to worry so much about head injuries. Maybe someone really smart will come up with a solution.
When I lived in Culpeper, my next door neighbor's son was a good football player as an 8th and 9th grader. However, he was a better baseball player. He CHOSE to stop playing football following his freshman year after witnessing a significant injury to one of his buddies. He told his dad that he did not want to risk being hurt in football and having to miss baseball.
My neighbor was a bit upset at first; he was a former college football player. But he eventually came to the realization that unless his son had a future in football, why risk the injury?
Ironically, his son did go on to play college baseball for one season, until a freak injury ended his career.
My neighbor was a bit upset at first; he was a former college football player. But he eventually came to the realization that unless his son had a future in football, why risk the injury?
Ironically, his son did go on to play college baseball for one season, until a freak injury ended his career.
Last edited:
But soccer injuries consist of falling to the ground in agonizing pain; being removed from the field on a stretcher; and then returning 3 minutes later to score a goal; and then run around the field in celebration!
Just kidding...couldn't resist. I know that significant injuries occur on the pitch.
It is interesting… All of the idiotic stuff the players do in professional football seems to trickle down to college and high school football very quickly. The idiotic flopping in pro soccer never seems to come down to high school soccer.
I couldn't tell ya , can't even stand to watch a soccer game. Every time I see two people running down the field chasing a ball, I keep thinking " Why don't that dude just truck that guy beside him!?" Lol
Flopping is part of the International Soccer game. MLS does the same. If you don't see it in HS or travel teams, you just don't watch enough games.
Oh, and this is one of my favorite things. Before any game I ref, I give the both Coachs the lecture. Physical play is absolutely allowed. There will be no ticky tack fouls called. But If your player flops, they will be carded. If another player flops, they are red carded and the Coach is thrown on out of the game.
It astounds me how many people choose to ignore these simple instructions and are then dumbfounded when I enforce them. It's like not filing your taxes and wondering why the irs is after you. I am always shocked by the level of stupid in this country. Christ, we have Hillary vs Trump coming in November. People actually went through the primary process and voted for these individuals to represent them. It's like watching a dumb and dumber video. Inconceivable.
Unbelievable how many times a referee can tell a coach or player to stop or not to do something and the next play here comes the deal again. Blow the whistle and get their attention.
I used to officiate basketball games. Same thing happened all the time. I never understood the surprise and reactions to a foul or travel being called even after being fairly warned.
I think the game will continue to evolve but, predictions of it completely changing or being no longer in existence push the limits of reality. The sheer volume of the economic impact from the NFL to the Pop Warner leagues, the investment in infrastructure, etc. pretty much ensures that, short of a catastrophic damage award or legislation limiting or curtailing the game, it will continue to exist at least at the highest levels. Rec leagues up through high school do not have large reserves to cover risks so the contact sport could morph at some point to a flag or 7 on 7 concept but, the money is just too large at the upper levels. There have been huge equipment improvements made and there continues to be a focus on managing the risks associated with the game to make it safer but, even those directly affected do not advocate major shifts in the game. The guys that have played and are now suffering the effects, more often than not, say they would still have played and you cannot protect people from themselves. Also, we have already witnessed catastrophic injuries and even death as a result of the game and the response has been to try and find ways to minimize the risk of similar things happening again but, not a huge outcry to eliminate the game.
On the officiating discussion above, ignoring the warning just confirms a level of arrogance or lack of intelligence on the part of the coach and/or the player. The smart ones always take the early part of a game to find that line and get a sense of how the game is officiated so when it gets down to crunch time they will know how to play and how far they can go.
On the officiating discussion above, ignoring the warning just confirms a level of arrogance or lack of intelligence on the part of the coach and/or the player. The smart ones always take the early part of a game to find that line and get a sense of how the game is officiated so when it gets down to crunch time they will know how to play and how far they can go.
Last edited:
You mention damage awards....that's where the problem may occur. Unless I've just missed it, I haven't seen a lot of lawsuits from parents suing school systems because Johnny got multiple concussions and the trainer and/or staff continued to let him play. Even if parents/students sign waivers before they play, that doesn't mean you still can't sue and win.
I think damage awards are a huge risk for rec leagues and high schools. They pose risks for the college and pro level as well, however, resources to defend are greater at those levels and there may also be other available defenses to litigation. My own personal perception is that high schools that employ certified athletic trainers are now coming down on the ultraconservative side where head injuries are concerned in direct response to the increasing publicity and exposure to these potential suits. The old days of waiving an ammonia capsule under the nose and flashing a few fingers to judge cognitive ability are done. Suits from historical situations will encounter some problems in presenting their case and the current landscape is increasing everybody's awareness. ESPN's Outside the lines had a good show on a kid injured making a tackle. He eventually died before the suit could wind its way through the courts but, it was interesting to note the defendants were the equipment manufacturer, the coaches, the rec league and the national governing body. That should give pause for everybody to consider. As a volunteer coach do I want that exposure? As a league can I afford that the insurance for that exposure? As a national governing body what processes would mitigate that exposure? Going to be a lot more discussion and change, particularly in the lower levels where the risk/reward model is not as clearly defined.
Insurance costs will be high.....I know some schools don't even have decent vans anymore for smaller-roster teams (golf/tennis) because the insurance is too much. Kind of stupid watching 6 to 8 kids get off a school bus at a tennis match.
The solution is to go back to leather helmets. Automatic ejections for using any part of the head involved in a tackle. Period.
Well, I think I'll take a pass on the leather helmet idea! But, there is no doubt that the rules will continue to evolve to take the "head" out ot the physical part of the game. And should. Let's face it, the potential for joint injury is prevalent in virtually all athletic endeavors. But barring accidental envolment, football is the only sport that originally purposefully used the head as a weapon. When I played my one and only year of football, JV's in 1969, we were taught to use our arm as a sledge hammer and to put our grill in the chest of the ball carrier. (And no, smarty pants, we did not have leather helmets back then!)
The risk of injury is ever present in everything we do. And we all chose what risk is acceptable to us. And before anyone says anything about kids not knowing enough to make that choice, you are correct. It's up to the parent of guardian to make that choice for them. But I think it is a person's right to make that choice, not the government. Government, (in this case rec leagues and school systems), has a duty to continue to make athletics safer. But I worry about an over-reaching government entity saying they don't think we can make a wise choice as individuals, so they are eliminating a sport, in this case football.
As was stated above, the biggest killer of all may be insurance premiums. And that will be greatly affected by the awards given in the enevitable future litigation. You could do everything right, and protect kids 10 times better than they presently are, but when the organization can't find the resources to provide the obligatory insurance coverage, bye, bye, football as we know it.
The risk of injury is ever present in everything we do. And we all chose what risk is acceptable to us. And before anyone says anything about kids not knowing enough to make that choice, you are correct. It's up to the parent of guardian to make that choice for them. But I think it is a person's right to make that choice, not the government. Government, (in this case rec leagues and school systems), has a duty to continue to make athletics safer. But I worry about an over-reaching government entity saying they don't think we can make a wise choice as individuals, so they are eliminating a sport, in this case football.
As was stated above, the biggest killer of all may be insurance premiums. And that will be greatly affected by the awards given in the enevitable future litigation. You could do everything right, and protect kids 10 times better than they presently are, but when the organization can't find the resources to provide the obligatory insurance coverage, bye, bye, football as we know it.
Have you seen the movie Concussion yet @ClarkeFan83? Besides being a very good movie, it explains the problem with contact sports way better than I ever could. I'll give a rudimentary explanation, but watch the movie to further illustrate the point.
Leading with helmets is a part of the problem, but actually the bigger problem comes from the culmination of years of collisions. (Immediate stops-that's why I said we need seat belts for the brain) In a hit, bodies stop when the momentum is arrested.
Unfortunately, the brain floats and is bathed in cerebrospinal fluid and contained within the skull. Upon collision the brain continues to move and dependent on speed can actually make contact with the skull in a violent manner.
Years of repeated collisions take a toll on the body and the brain. Concussions are a manifestation of a more violent collision because the brain becomes concussed from a particularly hard hit. (NASCAR crashes are an extreme example here, where the brain continues to move within the skull upon contact- Dale Jr has been the worst example to this point)
They are finding many changes to the brain chemistry and physiology because of the culmination of years of repeated collisions though which is much worse.
CTE, (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy) is the name given to the culmination of years of repeated collision that cause changes in brain chemistry and physiology. Unfortunately at present, it can only be seen postmortem under microscope with slices of the brain.
CTE has been confirmed in a number of former football players and at least one boxer. Theoretically, it would likely be found in any contact sport- football, boxing, UFC, etc...
CTE is characterized by extreme pain, violent outbursts, agression, depression, and in some cases suicide. (Dave Duerson of the '85 Bears and Junior Seau are but 2 examples)
Boston University confirmed 87 cases of CTE in 91 examined in a study last year, conducted on former NFL players whose families approved of the testing.
The individuals who have CTE played football for a number of years. (Possibly from 5 till early 40's in some cases) To my knowledge no cases have been found in players who have just played HS for example. That doesn't mean it's not possible I suppose, just not shown at this point TMK.
It's probably like smoking, the more you do it, the more likely to have problems down the road. You get 2 lungs and 1 brain, use them wisely!
This is a good starting point for a discussion, watch "Concussion" and then we can discuss. That's our "movie report" homework for the week.
I'm not an advocate of dramatic change in HS football, but it needs to be further addressed at the professional level imo. (Possibly college level as well) In our litigious society change is inevitable, but hopefully not to the level of complete denigration and elimination of said sport. Flag football and 7v7 aren't the same as HS football. There is something to be said for lineplay and hitting, which is lost without contact.
Last edited:
I have planned to watch that movie, just haven't had a chance yet.
Okay, a better rule to satisfy the litigious society we live in. All participants sign a release form. No suing. You play knowing the consequences, and you must live with your choices.
One problem with that, no mater what you sign, you never sign away the right to litigate. That is where the lawyers come in to play.
Hey Mike, great job above. Thanks.
Unfortunately, this may not work either.
When the Injured Party is a Minor
Laws regarding minor waiver/releases also vary from state to state. However minors are not legally competent, which means they aren’t seen as capable of entering into a binding contract such as a waiver/release. Therefore, the only way for a minor to be bound for purposes of contractually excusing negligence would be through a parent’s signature on the waiver/release. Even then, most states will not allow a parent to contractually waive their minor children’s right to sue for a sports-related injury.
This is a developing area of the law that is undergoing constant change. The same three conditions that apply for upholding adult waiver/releases also apply to parental waiver/releases. In addition, the language in the wavier/release will be scrutinized under the same degree of strictness as indicated under adult waiver/releases on a state-by-state basis.
A parental waiver/release may be upheld in a minority of states.
A waiver/release will only be upheld if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
- The injury arises from risks stated in the waiver/release contract (here we will often see language of “known and unknown risks” and discussions of the inherent risks of an activity), or from the sports organization’s simple negligence.
- The waiver/release is properly drafted or worded according to the law in the state of the sports organization
- It does not violate any state laws or public policy.
I knew as you did that a waiver or release didn't necessary preclude a lawsuit. I copy and pasted the information related to waivers and minors. As a former teacher said "You don't have to know everything, you just have to know where to look for the answer." This was in 1987 long before home computers became so available to the average person and well before Google was popularized, everyone can sound like a genius with Google and the copy and paste feature nowadays.
In reality, most of those waivers are worth less than the paper on which they are drawn. The litigious society in which we live makes it almost impossible to be shielded from liability. Gotta' remember, "it can't be my fault. Show me the money".
