Class 4 All State Team
- Thread starter lyhsports
- Start date
I feel bad for Austin Gallimore of Pulaski. Absolutely should have been first team but not being on second team is criminal.
Knowing how these lists are done just makes them so disreputable.
Congrats to the kids who are on it but just wish there was a better way.
Congrats to the kids who are on it but just wish there was a better way.
Gallimore is an absolute beast. Tough to see him not get recognition. That Pulaski defense as a whole was really really fun to watch.
It's unfortunate but the top teams coach's from his region would've had to fight for him. It will never be perfect and every year there are unfortunate casualties to the system. I learned through personal experience that the higher your team finishes the greater your chances of being on the list. The State Champ and Runner Up coach's have a lot of pull. Physical attributes and College offers (especially for lineman) push you up, even if the play on the field might not equal a smaller players. I'm not sure if it's to much but I'd be happy with a 3rd Team All-State or recognized Honorable Mention, it's really a tremendous honor for these kids.
Agreed. Enjoyed watching the Gallimore kid play as I am sure others did, however, I realize that will be little solace to him in getting passed over. It is really not all that surprising given the way voting is done. Anybody that has ever participated in a district, region or state meeting knows exactly what the deal is and how things often play out. Used to be even worse the higher up(i.e., district then region then state) until some curbs were put in place that limited the discretion/politics(i.e., necessary to be on region team before under consideration for states, etc.). Also the fact that districts are more mixed(particularly west and south of Richmond) sometimes limits head to head observations within classifications. Not sure there is a better solution and the only real way to control the results is to win. As in most things to the winner goes the spoils.
Agree that Gallimore was very good - think he finished with 137 total tackles and 14 for loss. Just curious though who you would take off to put him on? It's a really strong group of linebackers on both 1st and 2nd Team.
My frustration with all state voting is that other teams/players are counting or dependent upon other coaches pushing or making a claim for your players. It is only natural for a coach to want to see his players get the recognition he feels they deserves and if he is the one responsible for your region, it is up to those region coaches to make a claim for players that are not theirs. I do not know if they get the stats from district and region meetings to know what a players stats were and I surely doubt that they are aware of the impact a player made on a team or in games. In Region D, some of those teams only played 1 or 2 other teams from within the region, so it's hard to know. I would like to see all coaches be able to go and make a case for their players. I bet you would see the accolades more spread out then.
Brandon Davis from Halifax is a 4 year starter who has been 1st or 2nd team Region LB or TE for the past 3 years and finished his HS career with over 400 tackles and he has yet to make 1st or 2nd team state. I do not know his other stats (tackles for loss, sacks, etc), but I bet if he didn't play at Halifax and played at somewhere like Salem,Glass, Lake Taylor, or Tuscarora that he would have made it once or twice.
Brandon Davis from Halifax is a 4 year starter who has been 1st or 2nd team Region LB or TE for the past 3 years and finished his HS career with over 400 tackles and he has yet to make 1st or 2nd team state. I do not know his other stats (tackles for loss, sacks, etc), but I bet if he didn't play at Halifax and played at somewhere like Salem,Glass, Lake Taylor, or Tuscarora that he would have made it once or twice.
Everybody has made some valid points. We discuss this every year and unfortunately someone always gets left out. I have been in all district, all region and all state meetings before and sure politics plays a part. If it works like it used to the Region final coaches usually present at the state meeting and they sell their regions players. Example: D: Salem and Glass, C: Tuscarora and Broad Run; B: PH and Dinwiddie; A: LT and Churchland.
You can say what you want about the voting, but Coach Mills, Coach Sawyer, Coach Hatfield, and several other coaches in the state put their stats on Max Preps/other outlets for everybody to see and consistently use Twitter to sell their kids/program. Whats the big secret? The kids bust their tails for the team and deserve to promoted. Example: Region meeting about 15 years ago. A huge issue was made about a player being snubbed. When all the dust settled it was discovered the coach did not even show up or send stats on his players. If you want to point the finger look no further than the head coaches seat from your particular school.
@matthew328826, I agree their are some talented linebackers in this group. I am an honest fellow, so even though Hobbs and Lucess are talented players, I must admit being bit surprised by their selections. Below are their stats, so a comparison can be made with those who did not make it. After reading a well written post by @oneman detailing the talent of the Louisa's defensive lineman Adrian "Nightrain" Williams I was shocked to see him left off.
Hobbs-LB
107 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
2 sacks
3 interceptions
1 fumble recovery
Lucess-DT
74 total tackles
29 tackles for loss
10 sacks
3 caused fumbles
State voting breakdown:
Offense: 1st team A/B 8 kids C/D 8 kids
Offense 2nd team A/B 9 kids C/D 7 kids
Defense: 1st team A/B 9 kids C/D 7 kids
Offense 2nd team A/B 8 kids C/D 8 kids
You can say what you want about the voting, but Coach Mills, Coach Sawyer, Coach Hatfield, and several other coaches in the state put their stats on Max Preps/other outlets for everybody to see and consistently use Twitter to sell their kids/program. Whats the big secret? The kids bust their tails for the team and deserve to promoted. Example: Region meeting about 15 years ago. A huge issue was made about a player being snubbed. When all the dust settled it was discovered the coach did not even show up or send stats on his players. If you want to point the finger look no further than the head coaches seat from your particular school.
@matthew328826, I agree their are some talented linebackers in this group. I am an honest fellow, so even though Hobbs and Lucess are talented players, I must admit being bit surprised by their selections. Below are their stats, so a comparison can be made with those who did not make it. After reading a well written post by @oneman detailing the talent of the Louisa's defensive lineman Adrian "Nightrain" Williams I was shocked to see him left off.
Hobbs-LB
107 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
2 sacks
3 interceptions
1 fumble recovery
Lucess-DT
74 total tackles
29 tackles for loss
10 sacks
3 caused fumbles
State voting breakdown:
Offense: 1st team A/B 8 kids C/D 8 kids
Offense 2nd team A/B 9 kids C/D 7 kids
Defense: 1st team A/B 9 kids C/D 7 kids
Offense 2nd team A/B 8 kids C/D 8 kids
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So the player should suffer and lose out on deserved recognition because a coach doesn't put stats on Maxpreps? First off, I know stats are typically inflated to begin with and each school may do/count certain stats in different ways. I've seen players get sacks or solo tackles for being in the vicinity when a player slips. I've seen assists be counted as whole tackles.
Second, stats sheets could have been provided at the region level and when it gets to the state level the representing coach doesn't sell Player C from another school like they will for Player A from their own school. I just think that if you have a player who made 1st team region, you should be able to go and make your case for your player(s) instead of having to rely on someone else to do it for you. If you were buying a car, would you allow someone else, who has a vested interest in that sale, go and haggle on a deal on your behalf? If you were up for a job or promotion, would you want your competitor to be able to go in and say why you should have the job/promotion over them? A coach should be able to say, hey my player took on double and triple teams to get these stats or they did it all with a broken hand and a cast, etc....
I remember reading somewhere where a coach suggested that the stats be presented, but no player name or school is shown and it is a blind vote. I would be good with that or since everyone is all about modern technology, let every coach who has a 1st team region player come, make their pitch in a determined amount of time and play the video of highlights, which would also be on a time limit. Be fair.
Second, stats sheets could have been provided at the region level and when it gets to the state level the representing coach doesn't sell Player C from another school like they will for Player A from their own school. I just think that if you have a player who made 1st team region, you should be able to go and make your case for your player(s) instead of having to rely on someone else to do it for you. If you were buying a car, would you allow someone else, who has a vested interest in that sale, go and haggle on a deal on your behalf? If you were up for a job or promotion, would you want your competitor to be able to go in and say why you should have the job/promotion over them? A coach should be able to say, hey my player took on double and triple teams to get these stats or they did it all with a broken hand and a cast, etc....
I remember reading somewhere where a coach suggested that the stats be presented, but no player name or school is shown and it is a blind vote. I would be good with that or since everyone is all about modern technology, let every coach who has a 1st team region player come, make their pitch in a determined amount of time and play the video of highlights, which would also be on a time limit. Be fair.
@Scarlett_Grey, I was not implying that stats are the end all. I was just making the point that some coaches get their players names out and some don't. In the old days the media actively covered high school football. Its half ass at best now. Coaches and players alike have to promote themselves through social media. I agree region representatives could snub a player from another team in the region. If the region recommendations are not followed and the reps promote their own players then shame on them.
Realistically, there is no fair or reasonable way to select an all state team period. In order do that coaches would have to watch each and every player in Class 4. Coaches spend countless hours watching video's of their upcoming opponents. I can bet few if any watch hudl videos of out of region players/teams consistently. I think we should just stick to all region teams and expect each coach to be present. If a coach does not show up (happens a lot) or send a representative then it will reflect on their kids selections. One final thought. If the coaches in general thought the voting was dishonest or unfair don't you think that would be addressed. We are not talking about passive people here. We are talking about high octane Football Coaches!
Football head coaches at any level are rarely agents of change and usually only do so when forced.
As someone that has run numerous all state meetings across multiple sports most recently boys volleyball for Multiclass 1-4 a couple of factors come into play.
Who's in the meeting...Anyone can come to the meeting and speak for their kid. Only the regional finalist can vote. I was at the all state meeting on Wednesday and there were coaches that couldn't vote in the meeting advocating for their kids. Bottom line if you can make these kids play year round, practice hard, give it their all, and be students on top of it the one thing you can do is get off your butt and come fight for the kids. We announce at our region meeting every year that if you have a kid you feel like deserves to be be on the first team by all means make the drive to speak on their behalf. Billy Mills, Bill Hall, Hatfield, are guys that either come to meeting if they are not voting or send great stats on their kid to help their cause. Too many times a kid name comes up and coaches may have NEVER played that kid or seen him and they don't have stats and that kid doesn't even get 15 seconds. Is that the coaches in the room fault?
I'll leave you on this. PH-Ashland won the state title in volleyball their kid was the region player of the year...Every coach that could vote showed up except PH so it was 3 out of 4 coaches because we only have two regions. My kid who was POY in my region got State Player of the year because no one had numbers on the PH kid and my coach had some great numbers. Were we suppose to default the POY award to the PH kid?
Who's in the meeting...Anyone can come to the meeting and speak for their kid. Only the regional finalist can vote. I was at the all state meeting on Wednesday and there were coaches that couldn't vote in the meeting advocating for their kids. Bottom line if you can make these kids play year round, practice hard, give it their all, and be students on top of it the one thing you can do is get off your butt and come fight for the kids. We announce at our region meeting every year that if you have a kid you feel like deserves to be be on the first team by all means make the drive to speak on their behalf. Billy Mills, Bill Hall, Hatfield, are guys that either come to meeting if they are not voting or send great stats on their kid to help their cause. Too many times a kid name comes up and coaches may have NEVER played that kid or seen him and they don't have stats and that kid doesn't even get 15 seconds. Is that the coaches in the room fault?
I'll leave you on this. PH-Ashland won the state title in volleyball their kid was the region player of the year...Every coach that could vote showed up except PH so it was 3 out of 4 coaches because we only have two regions. My kid who was POY in my region got State Player of the year because no one had numbers on the PH kid and my coach had some great numbers. Were we suppose to default the POY award to the PH kid?
Not sure you can slight Bauer from the list who already made last year and only improved upon this year.
https://www.nvdaily.com/nvdaily/foo...cle_d3c86f65-16b3-5feb-9e64-eb8e54ea9711.html
Sherando notoriously has good LB’s.
George Aston: University of Pitt
Dylan Rivers: Virginia Tech
JoJo Doleman: Marshall
Michael Perry: University of Charleston
If I’m not mistaken, Gallimore was voted defensive POY in the River Ridge District in which he and Pinello both play. So the coaches that play both players and teams must have thought Gallimore was better. Now I know District voting has nothing to do with state voting anymore, but I think the fact that Pinello wasn’t even voted above Gallimore in their own district says something here. Just speaks to the political clout of the winning teams in the playoffs. These are subjective awards - there is no way to objectively select these other than say, stats, but better defenses will never have the stats of defense that are on the field a lot. Is what it is. Congrats to all the players that made it - all very deserving, but you do feel for a kid like Gallimore (and the kids across the state in very similar situations, there are plenty).
So why didn't his coach come speak on his behalf? He spoke well enough to get him district POY he could have carpooled or gassed up his vehicle and rode to Charlottesville to fight for him. Please don't expect coaches to vote for the kid when 6-7 of them voting has never seen him play.
@DEVILSLB99, thank you for saying correctly and eloquently what I was trying spit out.
