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Comments?

DinwiddieProud

VaPreps All State
Gold Member
Dec 9, 2013
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I know this is a basketball topic, but this is the most read and most commented on category of the forum, so....?

What are your comments on the entire state basketball tournament being played at the Siegel Center?
 
I don't like it at all, and I think it's really stupid. That's the short version. For the long version, keep reading.



IMHO, the biggest problems with having so many games in six days at any one venue are: it screws up the schedule; destroys the tournament atmosphere; and, creates travel problems to such a degree that many people can't come. A lot of regular posters on here are hoops junkies that want to see as many games as possible, but the vast majority of people that actually attend (or those that would like to) aren't interested in sitting through four or more games in one day, especially when they have zero rooting interest in any of the teams. I think most are interested in the games in which their team is playing, first and foremost; then, they might be interested in seeing the other semifinal in their team's division. In 2013, one Division 4 boys semifinal was at 9:00pm Tuesday, while the other wasn't until Wednesday afternoon. So, for us Salem fans, unless one was prepared to shell out bucks for an overnight stay, and could take all of Wednesday off, one could forget about seeing both semifinals that were relevant to our team. Then, one had to turn around and make the whole round trip again, three days later. I think each division should have its semifinals successively, in the same session. If not, that's a pretty abhorrent disservice to not only the fans, but also coaches, who I'm sure would appreciate the scouting convenience of back-to-back semis.


Looking at this year's state tournament schedule, I see that the issue of same-division semis split over two days has been addressed. Although, in each division, the semis alternate between boys and girls, so any fan just wanting to see the two semis relevant to their team is going to have to sit through at least one extra game. I still see what I consider to be a few major issues in the schedule. I think tipping off state semis and finals - or any game, for that matter - at 10:00am is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it's the same for both teams. But, the kids are geared all season long to starting at 7:00pm or later. So, the quality of play is likely to take a sharp decline in those pre-1:00pm games. Once again, are non-immediate family members from around the state - who might be otherwise motivated to attend, given a less inconvenient tipoff - going to feel compelled to make it to Richmond for a game that starts at 10:00am Wednesday morning? That's when the boys 1A final starts. A state championship, at 10:00am Wednesday morning. Talk about the spotlight - there will be virtually none, for both the 1A boys and girls, who start right after the boys. Is that fair to those kids? Then, the 3A finals are both Wednesday night, while the 4A schools, the other half of traditional AA, have their finals on Saturday morning. It seems to me that many people would be interested in seeing 3A/4A finals in tandem, but those games are now almost three days apart.

Since basketball went to divisional play - IMHO, the worst decision the VHSL has made in my lifetime - the whole thing has just gotten too big for one place to be able to schedule it in a reasonable manner. I think splitting it up between three venues would be the way to go. Richmond, C'ville (U-Hall is still standing, I believe; JPJ might even be available, some years) or LU's Vines Center, and Salem seem to be pretty well located for 6A/5A, 4A/3A, and 2A/1A, respectively. The Salem Civic Center hosted the AA and A girls tournaments concurrently for many years, and that venue seemed to work well. With two divisions of boys and girls at one venue, some semis might still have to be played on Thursday; meaning, a stay for the winners until Saturday for the final, if any schools four-plus hours from Salem, for example, were involved. But, taking off on a Friday (for the fans) seems to be a better option for many people than is having to take off a day in the middle of the week. I'm sure problems would still have to be addressed, but I have to believe there would be far fewer with having just two divisions (boys and girls) at one place, as opposed to six.



Let me close by saying that high school basketball used to be my favorite sport. Not favorite high school sport, but favorite sport, period. All the local rivalries. The abundant, comprehensive coverage in the local paper. The gyms, each with their idiosyncrasies (although I loathed it, Northside's old gym was a classic, and one of the toughest places in the state for visiting opponents in the first half of the '90's). Going to watch three different district tournaments at the Salem Civic Center every season. The playoff system was equitable, and made sense - and everyone essentially played by the same rules, with minimal variations between classifications. Two teams- and two teams only - made it to the playoffs from each district. In AA and A, the regular season district champs got the more favorable regional tourney seedings, so every district game mattered. No damned nonsensical ratings scales, which these days vary from conference to conference, were needed to seed the regionals. And everybody got a second chance, in the form of the district tournaments, which really meant something. The whole thing was capped off by state tournaments that were set up in such a way that one could view the semis and final in a certain classification without an inordinate amount of inconvenience.



If going to divisional play was the start of high school basketball's demise, then last year's advent of conferences was the last spade of dirt on the coffin. 48 different entities, all making up their own rules for playoffs. It's a total mess. District play is completely irrelevant now, and the district tournaments have gone the way of the dodo. Replaced by conference tournaments, wherein your team might play a school located ninety minutes away, that it has rarely faced in any sport, ever. And all of the afore-mentioned problems with the state tournaments.

I suppose you still get the best team at the end of it all. But, everything about the process has changed, for the worse, IMHO. I can't stand it, and I hardly even follow my once-beloved sport any more.
This post was edited on 2/3 3:43 AM by SpartanOfYore
 
Think you nailed it.....

Only thing I would add is regarding the demise. IMO the demise of high school bball and the trickle up effect to college and the U.S. pro leagues is AAU/shoe companies to a large degree and ESPN to a lesser degree. The emphasis on the highlight and the one on one mentality leads to very little focus on actual fundamentals and team play which are sacrificed in search of the next ONE.
 
Re: Think you nailed it.....


Good posts above. I agree basketball has gone to crap at every level.

As for state tournament, VHSL has zero common sense. I have been told one reason they do it the way they do is to force fans into having to watch a girl's game.

They cram too many games into one week at same venue.

I do not have time to write my feelings on the Siegel Center, other than to say "it sucks".
 
Re: Think you nailed it.....

Really good job Spartan. I don't agree completely, but I do respect the opinions. If you told me to come up with a better plan, I really don't know how I would tweak it, other than maybe trying to get the smaller division teams more of the limelight. Not sure how I would, but I would try.

I miss your regular post Spartan. I hope you will become more active again. I'm still smarting from the well deserved "Dinwiddie of Petersburg" zinger.
But, I deserved that.

Along the lines of basketball, I really enjoy reading Pizzzzza play by play post during the playoffs. I swear, I do not know how he can monitor and post multiple games all at the same time, but he does a great job.

And cutnjump, I agree. I rue the demise of team basketball.
 
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