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Eligible number

Can high school player report as eligible even though they have on jersey #50-79?

Sure he can. He can also report that he can no longer be tackled, the other team's best player can't touch the ball, and his team wins the game. Just kidding.

In all seriousness, a player who is numbered 50-79 can never be eligible in HS or NCAA.

In NCAA, there is rule coverage that allows a player to change their jersey number and report to the referee that he has changed his number to become eligible. If it's not reported, it is an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. In the NFL, ineligibles can report as eligible for a play, which is where this common misconception comes from.

I heard about a story at a high school game in years past where an offensive lineman came to the referee to tell him he is "reporting as eligible." The referee responded with "don't worry, there's a lucky lady out there somewhere for you." After a few seconds of bewilderment, the kid and the referee laughed and he then explained the rule.
 
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In pregame conferences with head coaches, the referee always asks of there are any unusual plays. This, hopefully, is where a coach will say they want to have a player report as eligible and the referee can nip that in the bud right then.

It can also happen that there is a legal play that will look crazy, but by preparing the officials for what might happen, it will be called right. WVU used to run a play where a tackle would back up and catch a backward pass. This is legal because anyone is eligible to catch a backward pass (the common term is 'lateral,' although that term is not in the rule book.) So a couple years ago a h.s. team gave me a heads up that they run it. By knowing this, we would know what's happening and not drop a flag when #77 makes a catch.

I have been told by various coaches that they would:

Use a punt on all kickoffs -- no you won't.
Run a fake field goal where they shift INTO a swinging gate formation and pass to the snapper -- no you won't.
Fake a punt by having the snapper hold the ball on his butt and another player take it -- no you won't.
Run the old "wrong ball" play and actually snap it to change the ball, then take off -- no you won't.
And some other elaborate scheme that I don't remember, but it involved a forward handoff past the line of scrimmage.
 
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In pregame conferences with head coaches, the referee always asks of there are any unusual plays. This, hopefully, is where a coach will say they want to have a player report as eligible and the referee can nip that in the bud right then.

It can also happen that there is a legal play that will look crazy, but by preparing the officials for what might happen, it will be called right. WVU used to run a play where a tackle would back up and catch a backward pass. This is legal because anyone is eligible to catch a backward pass (the common term is 'lateral,' although that term is not in the rule book.) So a couple years ago a h.s. team gave me a heads up that they run it. By knowing this, we would know what's happening and not drop a flag when #77 makes a catch.

I have been told by various coaches that they would:

Use a punt on all kickoffs -- no you won't.
Run a fake field goal where they shift INTO a swinging gate formation and pass to the snapper -- no you won't.
Fake a punt by having the snapper hold the ball on his butt and another player take it -- no you won't.
Run the old "wrong ball" play and actually snap it to change the ball, then take off -- no you won't.
And some other elaborate scheme that I don't remember, but it involved a forward handoff past the line of scrimmage.
Scrooge. Take all the fun out of the game.:rolleyes:

You talking about a backward pass/lateral got me to thinking, (a rare event). Can you list the common terms that us non-officials use that are actually called something else in the rule book, please?
 
Scrooge. Take all the fun out of the game.:rolleyes:

You talking about a backward pass/lateral got me to thinking, (a rare event). Can you list the common terms that us non-officials use that are actually called something else in the rule book, please?

Lateral is a biggie, of course.

Line of scrimmage is technically incorrect because there are two lines of scrimmage -- one for each team with the neutral zone between them. But how many people really know or care about that? Line of scrimmage works in most cases.

I've had confusion surround the fact that there's a difference between a QB and a passer. A passer is a player who throws a pass; a QB is a position. This matters when a coach thinks a QB (or punter) gets some protection even though he did not actually throw a pass (or kick the ball). The rule is "roughing the passer," not roughing the quarterback.

Among terms that are not in the rule book at all, we have:

uncatchable pass
tackle box
pocket
 
Lateral is a biggie, of course.

Line of scrimmage is technically incorrect because there are two lines of scrimmage -- one for each team with the neutral zone between them. But how many people really know or care about that? Line of scrimmage works in most cases.

I've had confusion surround the fact that there's a difference between a QB and a passer. A passer is a player who throws a pass; a QB is a position. This matters when a coach thinks a QB (or punter) gets some protection even though he did not actually throw a pass (or kick the ball). The rule is "roughing the passer," not roughing the quarterback.

Among terms that are not in the rule book at all, we have:

uncatchable pass
tackle box
pocket
Line to gain is something you guys use that is never heard otherwise.
So is scrimmage kick.

Two things that I think fans get confused about the most are which peanalties are assessed from the point of the foul?
And what has to take place for a penalty of intentional grounding to be called?

And while I'm at it, tell me about what a player can and cannot do with their hands with respect to holding.

Hell, I may as well worry you guys to death with a couple more.

I just can't wrap my head around what and when a low block is legal or illegal.

How much contact is too much contact with respect to PI. The obvious, is, well obvious. But sometimes you see two guys banging together and no call. Other times what looks like minor contact, and it's called.
 
Scrimmage kick is rule book terminology for punts and field goals. The reason is because the rules are the exact same for both, with the obvious exception that a place kick can score 3 points and a punt cannot.

Penalties are marked from the spot on fouls committed by the offense at a spot that is behind the basic spot. The basic spot is the line of scrimmage on a pass play or the end of the run on a run play. FYI, the run after a catch is part of a run play, so any foul by the offense that happens after a catch will likely be marked off from a different spot than if it happened before the catch? Confused? You're not alone. This trips up experienced officials at times.

Intentional grounding requires me to get into the head of a passer at times. If the ball is dumped and there's no receiver in the area, regardless where it is (no tackle bo rule in h.s.) then it's IG. This is one of the most subjective calls I make.

As far as holding, the hands mean very little to me. It's all about the feet. I wish more coaches and players understood this because I know there is a belief that holding with the hands inside the frame is fine. Not true. You can't hold an opponent. That said, If I see a hold then it needs to be at the point of attack that has material impact on the play.

Why do I look at the feet? Simple, the feet tell me if there is an illegal restriction or not. If a player is being held, but allowing himself to be held -- not trying to get away or "dancing" with the opponent, then I'm not flagging it. If he is trying to get away I can tell by the feet. When a player's feet tell you they should be going one way but he's not, there's a hold. I explain it like this: If you had two kids standing next to a wooden pole, if you nailed one of the kid's shirt to the pole, I wouldn't have to see the nails to figure out which kid was being held by the nails. I hope that makes sense.

Low blocks are only legal by one player on his line of scrimmage against another player on his line of scrimmage, immediately after the snap. If I had my way, all low blocks would be illegal, but that's just me.

Pass interference is something I don't worry while wearing the white hat. If I'm doing my job, I will rarely see if a pass is caught or not.

That said, PI is very subjective and the talking heads do us no favors by claiming that if a defensive player turns his head back to the ball, he's fine. The turned head is an indicator, but it's not something that absolutely determines PI or not. If two guys are both hand fighting and neither is gaining an advantage, then it's nothing.

You can't play through an opponent (early contact). You can't make push off. You can't cut an opponent off his route. And the one that probably looks like slight contact is "making him a one-armed receiver." A small amount of contact that restricts one hand should be called. Glad I do't have to worry about this much these days.
 
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Scrooge. Take all the fun out of the game.:rolleyes:

You talking about a backward pass/lateral got me to thinking, (a rare event). Can you list the common terms that us non-officials use that are actually called something else in the rule book, please?

Another is "offside." That is not a foul in HS football. It's a penalty on Saturdays and Sundays, but not Fridays. That's because the "offside" foul allows the defense to recover to the correct position prior to the snap, whereas encroachment in high school the play is dead immediately and the foul is penalized. In NFHS, it is always called encroachment whether it's by the offense, defense, or kickoff teams.

Line to gain is something you guys use that is never heard otherwise.
So is scrimmage kick.

Two things that I think fans get confused about the most are which peanalties are assessed from the point of the foul?
And what has to take place for a penalty of intentional grounding to be called?

And while I'm at it, tell me about what a player can and cannot do with their hands with respect to holding.

Hell, I may as well worry you guys to death with a couple more.

I just can't wrap my head around what and when a low block is legal or illegal.

How much contact is too much contact with respect to PI. The obvious, is, well obvious. But sometimes you see two guys banging together and no call. Other times what looks like minor contact, and it's called.

Blocks below the waist, as WH referred to, are only legal under a specific set of conditions. As he mentioned, both players involved in the block (the blocker and the opponent) need to be on their respective lines of scrimmage at the time of the snap . A block below the waist is only legal inside the free blocking zone and before this zone has disintegrated. The free blocking zone is a zone that extends 4 yards to both sides of the ball East and West, and 3 yards to both sides of the ball North and South. So, the zone is an 8 yard by 6 yard rectangle (plus the length of the ball if you want to get picky). I would say it's the equivalent of a "tackle box" in NCAA because the general consensus is that 4 yards to either side is wide enough to go from tackle to tackle, but not much else. A 3rd man on the line (usually a TE in a standard formation) is more than 4 yards from the ball, so they are usually considered outside the zone unless the team has incredibly tight splits from their linemen. The FBZ is only active while the ball is still within the zone. Once the ball leaves the zone, it disintegrates. Whether the ball enters the zone again at a later time is of no consequence. A player is considered "in the zone" if any part of his body is within the zone at the snap.

To block below the waist legally, both players must be on the line and in the zone at the snap, and the contact must occur within the free blocking zone. On a shotgun snap, a general rule of thumb is that the ball leaves the zone immediately and so the zone disintegrates immediately, so any block below the waist must be immediate and without hesitation. If the QB is under center and it's a run play that keeps the ball in the zone longer, there's a little more time for these blocks to be conducted legally. I'm with WH in that I think these blocks need to be outlawed completely at the HS and the NCAA level.

Contrary to WH, I'm a downfield official so PI calls are my bread and butter.

I break pass interference down into 2 sections, defensive and offensive PI (or DPI and OPI as we commonly refer to them as). Each section has multiple categories that constitute a foul. This is what I always tell new officials who are eager to learn about pass interference: if you can't categorize it into one of these categories, it's not a foul.

DPI has an acronym that I like to use because it has a double meaning: C THE GAP. When you officiate, you always want to "see the gap" (the air/space) between the offense and defense so that you can see any legal or illegal contact that occurs. This applies to football, basketball, baseball, softball, etc. Remember, this acronym is for defensive fouls.

Cutoff - When a defender contacts a receiver and pulls or pushes them off of their route, even if they are "playing the ball." Here's a good clip that shows this:


Tangled Feet (Not Playing the Ball)
- Tangled feet while not playing the ball. This one is extremely controversial even at the highest levels of officiating. Tangled feet while playing the ball is a legal play. But, if the defender is not playing the ball, there's belief that some players are taught to take advantage of tangled feet being legal and intentionally entangling themselves. This one is a gray area, but luckily it's not common by any means. I like to see the defender playing the ball on this one, and if they aren't I usually have a flag. Usually is the key word. Not always. Every play is different.

Hook and Turn - This is one of the more subtle PI fouls that usually gets a big groan from the fans in the stands that are far away, but on video and on the field it's easy to see how it's a foul. This usually involves a defender putting his arm/hand on the hip of the receiver and turning him when he goes up to catch a pass. It's easy to see because the receiver ends up doing a half or full turn even though they took off in a linear direction. Here's a clip:


Early Contact (Not Playing the Ball) - This one's pretty self explanatory. Early contact is usually a foul only if the defender is not playing the ball. Two players contacting each other only in an attempt to play the ball is legal. Contact that restricts (i.e., holds) the other opponent is not playing the ball. Here's a clip of an early contact DPI:


Grab and Restrict - Pretty self explanatory as well. The defender is grabbing and restricting the receiver from making a play on the ball, whether it be on the arm, jersey, etc. Clip:


Arm Bar - When a defender puts his arms straight out over the receivers arms preventing the receiver from raising his arms to make the catch. Usually a tell-tale sign of this is a receiver only raising one arm in the air to catch a ball because the other arm is restricted, as WH was referring to above. Here's a clip illustrating it:


Playing through the Back - Usually you see this on a come back route by the receiver (hooks, curls, etc.) and the defender attempts to play the ball through the back of the receiver. Clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcLbj8nguQ&feature=youtu.be&t=19m28s



Now for OPI, just without the fancy acronym. Remember, this is for fouls on the offense.

Push Off/Creating Separation - The typical one you see is pushing off to create distance between himself and the defender. For me, this has to be a significant push, not just a "love tap" where the receiver is just trying to gauge where the defender is in relation to himself. This category also applies when a receiver is running past a defender and pulls him backwards (in a swim move type of fashion) to create separation going downfield. The first clip is a blatant pushoff, the second involves pulling backwards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYn7Yv6EYo&feature=youtu.be&t=8m4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFTHTxivueE&feature=youtu.be&t=3m58s

Blocking Downfield - This is fairly easy to interpret. No offensive player can block downfield on a passing play until the ball is touched. Clip that some of you may remember well (FSU vs ND):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYn7Yv6EYo&feature=youtu.be&t=8m38s

Offensive Pick - Often deemed a "pick play." These are one of, if not the most difficult PI to call. It's a variation of blocking downfield but is a big enough event to warrant its own category. Usually involves a receiver "running into" a defender who is covering another receiver, which subsequently leaves the other receiver wide open. This is most often a receiver on an in-route blocking for a receiver running an out-route. This is difficult because the receiver has to have intent to block this defender and must initiate the contact himself. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the defense. So unless the defender initiates contact and/or the receiver isn't "hunting" for him, it is OPI. I added 3 clips for this one because it's a hot topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_vBY2fS25w&feature=youtu.be&t=59s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD92fnvKBe4&feature=youtu.be&t=3m14s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcLbj8nguQ&feature=youtu.be&t=9m3s

Driving through a Defender with Position - Essentially just playing through the back of a defender who has position on the ball. Similar to "playing through the back" on DPI.



Football is a physical game and there's going to be contact. With PI or any foul, the key is if there is an unfair advantage gained due to this contact. As WH said, the contact needs to take place at the point of attack on calls like holding and PI. If the ball is thrown to the left sideline and there's a flag for PI on the right sideline, we've got a problem. That's not PI and that flag probably should be picked up. When it comes to both DPI and OPI, we shouldn't call either of them unless it is blatant. Subtle contact is a no call. Also, if players "hand fight" as I call it (smacking hands of each other to try to prevent a catch, also called "chicken fighting") on both sides, that isn't interference by either player. Play on.

The biggest takeaway from this: if you can't categorize it into one of these "buckets," it's not a foul. Hope I helped answer some of your questions DP. Probably way more than you ever wanted to know between WH's and my posts.
 
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I see a lot of holding calls that have no effect on the play and they are many yards away from the ball carrier.
 
I saw a call during playoffs, where only The ball carrier and defensive players were "in the area", yet someone, somewhere was called for holding.
 
I feel like the officials get better at avoiding these calls as you go up the classifications. 1A can be rough.

Yes and no. There are no 1A officials. I will have a game with a 6A team playing a 5A team one week, then two 1A teams meeting the net week. Plus, there are great teams and great games at all levels. Two 8-1 teams in 1A battling for a district championship makes fr a much better game than a weak 5A team getting pounded by 40 someplace. So I don't think any association assigns officials solely based on classification.

That said, I will tell anyone that it takes 8-10 years of experience to really KNOW how to call holding. There is so much that goes into it. When a coach, player or, obviously, a fan, decides to offer an opinion on a hold I just laugh to myself. I don't mean to be patronizing, but if you're not trained and experienced, you are not looking at the blocks and holds the way I'm looking at them.

Here are four examples.
Team A runs a jet sweep. There are two blockers are in front running right down the line. Both are engaged in blocks and both have huge handfuls of jerseys. Everyone could see it. But the defensive players were being pushed on the exact same line of pursuit. They were not restricted from going exactly where they wanted to go. The guys getting held were right there at the ball carrier making plays. These blocks happened all night, but on one sweep the blocker not only grabbed the jersey, but he fell and drug the defender down as the runner went by. Now we have a hold. From the bench: "About time. He's been holding all game." Not exactly. (Are fans looking at pursuit angles and deciding that the defender is at no disadvantage, or are they just seeing handfuls of jersey?)

Example 2: Team A runs to the right. The left tackle drags down a guy who wasn't going to make the play -- I see it but ignore it. On the right side, the defense has the runner stacked up, so he reverses field and runs right past the guy on the ground. Now that hold mattered. I flag it. The benches saw no hold, obviously, but there was one there that mattered. I've also heard cries of "That's a late flag." So what? No such thing as a late flag. Quick flags worry me. A delay in throwing a flag tells me there was actual consideration given to whether the foul made a difference. (Are fans seeing that a hold earlier in the play had an effect later, or are they just seeing no obvious hold at the spot of the flag?)

Example 3. The white team has a player (I've seen it as lineman and backs) who are too small or too slow or just not very good, and they're getting beat so they hold. Am I going to call holding every play? No. No one came to the game to watch me throw flag after flag. If that kid commits a flagrant hold I might flag it, but for the most part I'm going to let that go. With that, however, comes the fact that I'm not going to officiate the other team any differently. A coach I really like and respect was so mad one night because he saw his defensive end get held a couple of times. I told him he was right, No. 80 did get held, but if I called that hold, I would have to call his No. 40 for the same hold and that's all we would do because he holds their defensive end every play. He hadn't noticed those holds. (Are fans recognizing that the lack of calls is actually a sign of consistency in the way the game is called?)

Finally, I had a call this season that I really worried about in the game. It brought back a long play, which I hate. It was also the briefest of holds. The hold lasted for a second or less. It was in the open field and I could see that the defender was trying to go to his left and couldn't. Still, it bothered me when it happened. When the game came up on hudl it was the first play I looked at. Yes, the hold was brief, but if cost the defender one step and the running back went by him one step away. Without the hold, the defender has his chance to make a tackle. He was restricted from that chance by just one step and the offense got an enormous advantage from it. I'm glad we have hudl because I felt much better after seeing that play. (Are fans realizing that small, quick but illegal actions can have a major effect on a play, or are they thinking all brief holds should be forgiven because 'There wasn't much there'?)
 
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I know of a team that once instructed players to hold "every time the defender got pass them". Their thinking was, a hold is better than the QB getting hit in backfield. if we lose 10 yards, we'll gain 20 on next play.
 
Thank you gentlemen. You continuously open my eyes to more and more of what you do.

And to both of you, you can't give me too much information. I love learning this stuff.

As we all know, it takes a special person with the right mindset to be an official. They must accept performance review well, and have the ability to accept constructive criticism. How many jobs are filmed, and later reviewed by your peers? Not many. And for the time dedicated for the pittance you make, yes, they are very special person indeed.

At halftime, do the officials discuss particular things going on on the field that they are paying special attention to? Do yo typically discuss a couple of calls and the reason they made the call?

I have just been totally consumed by my job the last month or so. That's why I haven't read and thanked you guys before now. And I wouldn't be on the board today, except I've got the flu. My poor wife is as sick as I've seen her in the 46 years we've been together. Doc said Type "A" influenza, the worst and most contagious to have. Basically, upon the Doctor's STRONG recommendation, quarantine ourselves to the house with absolutely no human contact. He is seriously worried that we may be heading into a true Pandemic. Type A is transmitted airborne. The virus stays alive and suspended in the air for up to 12 hours. He said one sick person walking through a mall coughing, can expose thousands.

This is a hell of a way to get a few days off, I'm telling you. But, I have lost a few pounds, but I don't recommend the "Influenza Diet". Stick with Weight Watchers! LOL.

Again, thank you guys for sharing you wisdom with us.
 
Thank you gentlemen. You continuously open my eyes to more and more of what you do.

And to both of you, you can't give me too much information. I love learning this stuff.

As we all know, it takes a special person with the right mindset to be an official. They must accept performance review well, and have the ability to accept constructive criticism. How many jobs are filmed, and later reviewed by your peers? Not many. And for the time dedicated for the pittance you make, yes, they are very special person indeed.

At halftime, do the officials discuss particular things going on on the field that they are paying special attention to? Do yo typically discuss a couple of calls and the reason they made the call?
.

Thanks for the kind words and I hope you feel better soon.

Halftime talk depends on several factors. Some are obvious, some not.

For the obvious, was there a play that was tough or particularly close? Were there any issues with coaches or players? How are the teams acting? Any problems we need to consider? Timing issues? All the things regarding running a game could be discussed.

As for the not-so-obvious, where is the crew? I work in places where we can go to the locker room or other private place and talk about anything. Other schools have no good place to go and we stay on the field. In some places, we go to the back side of the concession stand where we can get a bottle of water and a candy bar or hot dog, but there are people around. A smart crew will not be discussing delicate topics where others could hear.

There are other important things that need to be discussed such as post game refreshment plans or where everyone is going to watch the Hokies the next day,
 
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Presides is not in the high school eels book.

Lateral is a biggie, of course.

Line of scrimmage is technically incorrect because there are two lines of scrimmage -- one for each team with the neutral zone between them. But how many people really know or care about that? Line of scrimmage works in most cases.

I've had confusion surround the fact that there's a difference between a QB and a passer. A passer is a player who throws a pass; a QB is a position. This matters when a coach thinks a QB (or punter) gets some protection even though he did not actually throw a pass (or kick the ball). The rule is "roughing the passer," not roughing the quarterback.

Among terms that are not in the rule book at all, we have:

uncatchable pass
tackle box
pocket
 
Thanks for the kind words and I hope you feel better soon.

Halftime talk depends on several factors. Some are obvious, some not.

For the obvious, was there a play that was tough or particularly close? Were there any issues with coaches or players? How are the teams acting? Any problems we need to consider? Timing issues? All the things regarding running a game could be discussed.

As for the not-so-obvious, where is the crew? I work in places where we can go to the locker room or other private place and talk about anything. Other schools have no good place to go and we stay on the field. In some places, we go to the back side of the concession stand where we can get a bottle of water and a candy bar or hot dog, but there are people around. A smart crew will not be discussing delicate topics where others could hear.

There are other important things that need to be discussed such as post game refreshment plans or where everyone is going to watch the Hokies the next day,

Thanks Hat. We are better now. It was tough on me, but brutal to my wife. I used to wonder why kids and older people sometimes die from the flu. Now I wonder how any of them survive!
 
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