Has Ground & Pound Football Returning ?
- Thread starter trutiger16
- Start date
I would argue that a lot teams run a version of spread/option instead of true ground and pound. In my humble opinion most coaches and fans are not patient enough to allow ground and pound to have the effect it should. That is to wear an opponent down and defeat the spirit while playing downhill delivering the hits to the defense instead of trying to avoid them if you will.
Each philosophy has its merits but not many teams can transition seamlessly between the two. I applaud how Essex changed their approach to match the skill sets that were on their team last year. I understand the that they had ran a form of the T before but it’s not as easy an offense to run as you would think. Subtle differences here and there are worth a few first downs and extra yardage over the course of a game.
True ground and pound keeps the chains moving, has long time consuming scoring drives, and basically plays keep away from the opposing teams.
I will pose a few questions. How many possessions per half/total game does a high school team typically have? Of those, how many score TD’s? What’s the time of possession you look for?
Don’t get me wrong, if a spread team can effectively score (70%+), then they will be a handful and trouble at any level. I just don’t see that kind of efficiency at the 1A and 2A level of HS ball. There are not that many teams truly capable of running the spread but plenty try.
Each philosophy has its merits but not many teams can transition seamlessly between the two. I applaud how Essex changed their approach to match the skill sets that were on their team last year. I understand the that they had ran a form of the T before but it’s not as easy an offense to run as you would think. Subtle differences here and there are worth a few first downs and extra yardage over the course of a game.
True ground and pound keeps the chains moving, has long time consuming scoring drives, and basically plays keep away from the opposing teams.
I will pose a few questions. How many possessions per half/total game does a high school team typically have? Of those, how many score TD’s? What’s the time of possession you look for?
Don’t get me wrong, if a spread team can effectively score (70%+), then they will be a handful and trouble at any level. I just don’t see that kind of efficiency at the 1A and 2A level of HS ball. There are not that many teams truly capable of running the spread but plenty try.
Complete guess work here...
I'll say teams get 3 to 5 possessions per half, estimate of 4 and score on half of them.
A good ball control team with a solid defense can limit a team to only 2 possessions in a half, and create a 21-0 hole that is impossible to climb out of.
It's usually easier to find 3 running backs than a really good qb in a small school, that makes platoon rb schemes (T, double wing, veer) the best option.
I'll say teams get 3 to 5 possessions per half, estimate of 4 and score on half of them.
A good ball control team with a solid defense can limit a team to only 2 possessions in a half, and create a 21-0 hole that is impossible to climb out of.
It's usually easier to find 3 running backs than a really good qb in a small school, that makes platoon rb schemes (T, double wing, veer) the best option.
Essex is known more for the spread now, but when Todd Jones was there for his first head coaching stint, Essex ran the Power T formation. That was from I believe 1996 until 2003. They switched to the spread in 2004, if I'm not mistaken. They had numerous 1000 yard rushers out of the Power T, one that comes to my mind immediately was Jared Wormley. He ran for something like 468 yards in one game against Windsor. One season Essex even had three 1000 yard rushers. I believe that was the 2003 team that made it to the state championship game. I think that 3 headed monster was Carter Ball, LaMarcus Baylor and Lamar Stewart. NNDMan correct me if I'm wrong. When Fulks came there in 2011 he ran the spread but always had the double and single wing in his back pocket. He was very good at adapting to his personnel. In 2012, with a sophomore Dominek Broaddus they broke the single season touchdown passes record with a team that was loaded at wide receiver. Two years later in Broaddus' senior year, they ran a mix of spread and the wing, but slightly leaning more towards the wing. It really comes down to what type of personnel you had. Some of those Essex teams were just loaded and they ran the spread extremely well. Most 1A schools don't really have that type of personnel on a consistent basis yet will still stick with it because it's what they see on tv, or the fans want to see it, or for various other reasons. Me, I want to win and if that means lining up in the single wing, wing t, power I etc then so be it. I'd much rather win ugly than lose pretty. Riverheads no matter what your opinion is of them, (for the record, I love Coach Casto and what he does) are what every other team in 1A strives to be. Sooner or later, someone will top them and be the new kings of 1A, but they will have to earn it. As for what type of team that is, whether it's spread or a power running attack, that team will have to be fundamentally sound on both sides of the ball and not beat themselves. Man, I've wrote a lot and changed subjects quite a few times. Lol. Blame insomnia for that, but mostly I just love talking football. Once the season starts I won't really get into any conversation on here and will be just a spectator, because with me coaching, I just think it's a conflict of interest and I keep my views and opinions off the message boards. I'll save those for basketball season, when I'm a fan again. Lol.
I’m not 100% sure but I think Lamar Steward graduated in 2006. If so, he would of been a freshman on that 2003 state runner-up team. So I’m not sure if he was on that team or not. If he got out in ‘07, then he was not a member. I could be wrong but i believe his last game was the State Semi game in 2006 against Goochland at Goochland that Essex fell to a D.J. Coles and Hicks led team 31-8.
The last time Essex was a threat (with a good QB, RB & WRs) with the spread was in 2015 season when they fell to Galax in a State Semi game. The QB then was T. Nelson. From 2016-18, Essex has been struggling to find that passing attack like they had when Lyndon Garner, Dominek Broaddus, Teshan Nelson and a boat load of WRs have had in the past. Back then, they could almost score on every possession. Most of the games back then, the time of possession was in favor of Essex opponents. Essex would win by multiple TDs but time of possession was in the teens for a lot of games. I’m hoping this year that Essex can start getting back to passing more to go along with the run game than they have done in the last 3 years.
Lamar Stewart was such an incredible talent. Most of the top college football teams in the country were calling about him. I am talking Alabama, Florida State etc. So sad it did not work out. He was is a super nice kid/man. I hear people still bring up his name often. I even mean from outside Essex. Crazy how people remember the old days and talk about it all the time.
I think Stewart was a freshman that year if my memory serves me correctly. It could have been someone else and not him, but he was the one I had in my head.
Yeah I remember Blake and him rushing for over 1000 as well. I'm not sure what year he graduated, but for some reason the three I mentioned were who I had in my head when the three 1000 yard rushers in one season came to mind. NNDMan would be the one who would be able to verify. He's a walking encyclopedia of NND sports history.
It was 2001 and the three were Ramarcus Baylor, Blake Williams and …………….Brian Taylor the big fullback. The offense was the Wing-T in the Delaware Wing-T. I can't recall if it was run with an unbalanced offensive line or not. When Jones went to the spread a few years later, the offense maintained its Wing-T principles as far as the blocking schemes in its run game.
Thanks NNDMAN. I remember that team as well. I had forgotten Taylor, but he was a bruiser.
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to get some information together. As prolific as the scoring has been for the Gladiators over the years and especially most recently, Riverheads has had 3 occasions when three backs went over 1K together.
2000- Andrew Hemp 1338
Blake Ramsey 1004
Chris Shifflet 1081
2010-Daniel Weekley 1400
Logan Moore 1326
Jordan Jack 1321
2015-Landon Diehl 1187
Colt Miller 1022
Harrison Schaefer 1700
There are 5 other occurrences of two backs being over 1k together with the first occurring in 1976. On another interesting note, only two individuals have eclipsed the 2K threshold with Logan Moore doing it in 2012 with 2036yds. Very recently, Harrison Schaefer nearly passed that mark during the 2016 campaign when he ended with 2012yds.
There is definitely a platoon mentality to the Casto Wing T and very few of those listed seen touches in the second half of games. When in front, the second half is the building block for the next season and god forbid injury. An example on this list is Harrison Schaefer in 2015. He was the 4th back if you will. Ben Agnor had played very well in 2014 and was getting plenty of touches early in the 2015 campaign until a season ending knee injury derailed his season. Its next man up as most teams preach but few have that kind of depth and commitment to.
Back on topic, I was working in SC two years ago and watched some HS ball in the Greenville/Spartanburg area. Lots of athletes on the field but the game took forever with all the clock stoppages for incomplete passes. I suppose to each their own but it was excruciating to watch a half last 1.5 hours. When executed, the spread can be deadly and dismantle the best of defenses. I just don't see many at the 1A or 2A level that can consistently do it.
2000- Andrew Hemp 1338
Blake Ramsey 1004
Chris Shifflet 1081
2010-Daniel Weekley 1400
Logan Moore 1326
Jordan Jack 1321
2015-Landon Diehl 1187
Colt Miller 1022
Harrison Schaefer 1700
There are 5 other occurrences of two backs being over 1k together with the first occurring in 1976. On another interesting note, only two individuals have eclipsed the 2K threshold with Logan Moore doing it in 2012 with 2036yds. Very recently, Harrison Schaefer nearly passed that mark during the 2016 campaign when he ended with 2012yds.
There is definitely a platoon mentality to the Casto Wing T and very few of those listed seen touches in the second half of games. When in front, the second half is the building block for the next season and god forbid injury. An example on this list is Harrison Schaefer in 2015. He was the 4th back if you will. Ben Agnor had played very well in 2014 and was getting plenty of touches early in the 2015 campaign until a season ending knee injury derailed his season. Its next man up as most teams preach but few have that kind of depth and commitment to.
Back on topic, I was working in SC two years ago and watched some HS ball in the Greenville/Spartanburg area. Lots of athletes on the field but the game took forever with all the clock stoppages for incomplete passes. I suppose to each their own but it was excruciating to watch a half last 1.5 hours. When executed, the spread can be deadly and dismantle the best of defenses. I just don't see many at the 1A or 2A level that can consistently do it.
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