Here is why i'm not a believer in the west "right now"

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

People have Honaker and Radford ranked pretty high...

Honker 4-0 --- combined record of teams they played 2-12 ( 3 games vs. 1A scrubs)
Radford 4-0 --- combined record of teams they played 5-10 ( 3 games vs. 1A scrubs) (one vs. GW)


AltaVista is 2-2 but they have played legit 2A and 3A teams..... combined opponent record 10-7

 

[MT FAN 91]

So Galax is a 1A scrub now? If I'm not mistaken they lost to undefeated 2A Glenvar (defending 2A state champs) undefeated Radford team and a pretty good 1 loss GW team. And all of these games they lost were in the last couple of minutes or OT. So I guess that makes them 1A scrub. I find that interesting. Galax might not win another game this year but most who have seen them play or have played them would probably disagree with them being called 1a scrub.

 

[Scagmowers]

Scrubs????? LOL! Now that's funny

 

[GKKING]

Top four are pretty solid, used to be the top 8, but with fort down and haysi / clintwood combining.

 

[MT FAN 91]

You talk about Altavista and who they have played records, I might be mistaken but i think Galax has played some pretty good teams with a combined record of 13-3. You might consider all the teams they played scrubs also, I don't know but I was just curious on what your take is on this.

 

[CallMeCoach19]

I don't see the validity of this argument. that is why we have POINTS! And if we plan to argue that playing bigger schools makes you a better team, then of course East wins out. THEY HAVE MORE LARGER SCHOOLS! HAHA! I think the system works (though 6 divisions is a bit much) I think we will end up with a true east/west final. And let's be honest those are the best.

 

[bravesfan7327]

Altavista has 2 wins correct? Those wins are against greensville and prince edward. Those 2 schools have 2 wins combined. So according to you they are scrubs correct? Seems like Altavista can only beat up on scrubs also. So GOAT can I call you GOAT? Please tell me what you are trying to prove?

When you have real evidence that proves your non believing in the west teams please share it!

 

[G MASTER BLASTER W]

Galax is FAR from being a scrub team they have all the pieces to be a very deep playoff team. I have never seen a team have more bad breaks than Galax they literally 2-3 bad plays away from 4-0. Radford will prove what type of team they really are with some of their upcoming game Giles Glenvar and others Honaker and GW play next Friday night at a very nice field! Yeah I do agree some of the wins that each of these teams has is a bit suspect but just because the Wolves have had to prey on some sheep that doesn't mean they cant prey on other wolves.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

I look at stats.....

considering 15 of the past 17 champs have been from the east you draw your own conclusions.

Team W-L SR DR
Altavista 15-0
Altavista 14-1
George Wythe(W) 14-1
Clintwood 13-2
Riverheads 13-1
Altavista 13-1
Franklin 12-2
Buffalo Gap 14-0
Riverheads 13-1
William Campbell 11-3
Franklin 13-1
Sussex Central 14-0
William Campbell 14-0
Bath County 11-1
Riverheads 14-0
Surry 13-0
Surry 12-2

 

[MT FAN 91]

What's that got to do with calling certain teams scrubs?

 

[CallMeCoach19]

GW won in 2002 and 2012...your "stats" aren't even kosher.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

GW won in 2002 and 2012...your "stats" aren't even kosher.

GW won the 2A title in 2002

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

GW won in 2002 and 2012...your "stats" aren't even kosher.

Chuckles.... 1A champs list.... since we are talking about 1A

Might need to take reading/language arts over again "coach"

 

[singlewinger92]

I'll tell u one thing, I'm not looking forward to seeing Galax in in two weeks and probably be the first time I pick against my Spartans in two years

 

[CallMeCoach19]

Chuckles.... 1A champs list.... since we are talking about 1A

Might need to take reading/language arts over again "coach"

I'm just pointing that you are making an anti-west argument that is completely unfounded. And until you begin editing your post with fluency, let's not start calling out peoples needs for RLA. Graduating from JMU, poor quality is to be expected though.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

15 out the last 17 is pretty much game set match......

Straight Delusional

 

[MT FAN 91]

Just curious on what the past 17 years teams have to do with this year's teams. Not denying that east has won state a lot more than the west in the last 17 or so years but unless your bringing back all the teams from that time period to play does it really have anything to do with the young men who are playing this year.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

Just curious on what the past 17 years teams have to do with this year's teams. Not denying that east has won state a lot more than the west in the last 17 or so years but unless your bringing back all the teams from that time period to play does it really have anything to do with the young men who are playing this year.

You don't believe in trends?

 

[MT FAN 91]

If I just looked at the past and went with trends Clintwood and GW didn't have a shot at winning 3 and 4 years ago. So no I don't put that much stock in to trends. I go year by year and everybody starts 0-0. I don't dwell in the past and think because the east has won a lot more than the west has in the past that the west doesn't stand a chance to ever win a state championship. I don't have a clue who will win this year because I'm not psychic. I know the east has some very good teams and they have a good shot at another but I don't count out the west teams because of the past.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

Unless Thomas Jones or Julius Jones suits up for a team in SW VA it's not going to happen.

 

[MT FAN 91]

Don't recall either one of them playing for Clintwood or GW when they won 3 and 4 years ago when according to most people from the east neither of them had a snow balls chance in hell of winning. I don't put much stock in the past but since that is what matters according to you I figured I had better throw that in.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

If I just looked at the past and went with trends Clintwood and GW didn't have a shot at winning 3 and 4 years ago.

Only if you think trends are 100% accurate which is just as crazy as your stance that they are 0% accurate.

As always, the truth lies in the gray middle, but that doesn't make for #HotTakes on a message board, I get it.

 

[MT FAN 91]

Didn't say trends were 0% accurate, just said I don't dwell in the past and look only at trends to decide who might win a state championship. Never said the east has not dominated for the past 17 years, all I'm saying is that doesn't mean a team in the west can't win it.

 

[MT FAN 91]

By the way I do enjoy a good debate like this, that's what makes these board fun.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

I wouldn't dwell on the past either if I got beat 15 out of 17

I'd stick my head in the ground and pretend it didn't happen as well.....

AltaVista & Essex SMASHED honaker and haysi last year.... it was almost 20 points plus both games... Almost like a warm up before the real game in salem.

The same teams smashed haysi and fort chiswell in 2013..... both by double digits plus

Unless there is a divison one athlete in 1A west I'm not aware of the smashing will continue.

 

[MT FAN 91]

I have said many times on here the east has dominated the last 17 years so I wouldn't say my head is in the ground and pretending it didn't happen. I also said the east has a good shot at winning it again, all I'm saying is the west has a shot regardless of what happened in the past.

 

[MT FAN 91]

You go on ahead and continue to live in the past but for me I choose to live in the present and their is alot of football to be played before any one is crowned in Salem.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

Like the great man Sidney Deane says in white men can't jump...

Even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days.... anyone can win the lottery.

All in all just in good fun bro
I actually truly enjoy watching the clintwoods and the giles...

 

[MT FAN 91]

Like I said this what makes these boards fun.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

Didn't say trends were 0% accurate, just said I don't dwell in the past and look only at trends to decide who might win a state championship. Never said the east has not dominated for the past 17 years, all I'm saying is that doesn't mean a team in the west can't win it.

And no one has said that because the East has won 15 of 17 that they will automatically win it this year.

You were the one who dismissed the trend and now you are making a strawman argument to attempt to validate that opinion.

Trends matter. They are not absolute.

 

[MT FAN 91]

My point is that this thread was started about teams from the west this year and I don't see the bearing from the trend of the east winning 15 of the 17 past championships. It is a trend but as I said before they all start 0-0 and this a new year that the past doesn't mean the east is a lock to win it all this year. With the post being why am not a believer on teams from the west and talking about THIS YEARS Honaker and Radford team, I just didn't see the point about bringing up the last 17 years but that's just my opinion.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

My point is that this thread was started about teams from the west this year and I don't see the bearing from the trend of the east winning 15 of the 17 past championships.

You don't see the bearing. Right. Which is why I accused you of being dismissive of trends, a point you are reiterating here.

It is a trend but as I said before they all start 0-0 and this a new year that the past doesn't mean the east is a lock to win it all this year.

Strawman. No one in this thread said that the east "is a lock"

With the post being why am not a believer on teams from the west and talking about THIS YEARS Honaker and Radford team, I just didn't see the point about bringing up the last 17 years but that's just my opinion.

Yes, you have clearly established that you think that history has no bearing on the future. I firmly believe that your opinion regarding that issue is incorrect.

 

[MT FAN 91]

So we can start name calling on here, glad to know that.(strawman). You are right no one said the east was a lock in this thread, it was a different thread that was said in, at least that was the way I took it. I am wrong and you are right. So you have a nice day sunshine.

 

[RedPrideNation_RollPride]

Did all the kids from Essex's team graduate? If not then they will be at least in the mix. It's not as if the teams quickly build and all of a sudden are dominate. The same kids that were getting 40 hung on them last year may be back and better but did they jump over the teams that beat them due to that teams graduating clas? Most teams slowly get better or worse over several years. In my opinion that's why there is an ebb and flow to the stats and records. I am in no way dismissing any team but honestly this was a thread of one persons opinion as to why they do not believe in the West teams being overrated relative to historical data. I hope we make a deep run and get to play any of several of the teams I have heard so much about. It's high school football played by hormonal 16-18 yr olds so how sure can anyone be of the outcome of these games. It's about probability, the 15 out of 17 years just tells you it is highly probably that the 1A East representative will claim the title. And the VHSL moved PM into the west so at least someone from the west would have a chance.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

So we can start name calling on here, glad to know that.(strawman). You are right no one said the east was a lock in this thread, it was a different thread that was said in, at least that was the way I took it. I am wrong and you are right. So you have a nice day sunshine.

Uhhhhhh, no one called YOU "Strawman". I was referencing that your argument was a strawman.

Your "name-calling" argument is an absolute misinterpretation of what was said.

 

[MT FAN 91]

Understood, you are right and I'm wrong. I still hope you have a nice day.

 

[intrinsicreward]

If I throw a head 15 out of 17 times does that mean I will likely throw another head; throw a tail because it hasn't come up very often; or do I still have a 50/50 no matter what the previous results? Team/Region comparisons always even out over time in a subset like 1A football just like like throwing the dice. Dominant teams like Essex will throw off the stats for a few years. If we look at the last 50 years at 1A teams that have won championships, east and west would be about 50/50.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

If I throw a head 15 out of 17 times does that mean I will likely throw another head; throw a tail because it hasn't come up very often; or do I still have a 50/50 no matter what the previous results? Team/Region comparisons always even out over time in a subset like 1A football just like like throwing the dice. Dominant teams like Essex will throw off the stats for a few years. If we look at the last 50 years at 1A teams that have won championships, east and west would be about 50/50.

That is simply not true.

A coin flip is truly a 50-50 proposition from the start so, yes, that will, over time, produce a 50-50 result.

However, there are different conditions affecting human behavior and reaction, therefore, it is not a 50-50 proposition going in. There are outside variables that affect the outcome that skew the numbers.

In the same vein, states with similar populations have not produced the same number of nfl players. Texas, for example, emphasizes football more than New Yor which is a contributing factor in a players growth.

The west may win it this year and they may have a run coming soon, but there is no inherent balance to it as there is to a coin flip.

This is not a game of chance.

 

[uvacavs1]

Well said Ron. I see intrinsicrewards coin toss analogy point as well. Interesting debate.

I love the study of trends, be them social, historical, political, or athletic. Sure, not an absolute perspective, but it often does give a glimpse into the future.

Great observation on the Texas v New York emphasis on football development. While there are the Penn States and Michigan's up North etc., the SEC and surrounding regional areas seem to dominate overall. I've heard many analysts wonder why? I would argue Trends....cultural, historical, geographical, economic, religious fervor to name a few.

 

[intrinsicreward]

Rod...I get your point but in a given population these types things even out as well unless there are environmental diffferences that prevent it. I don't know any environmental differences between 1a east or 1a west when it comes to hs football. The east in this case does not have better coaches or better potential players or other differences over the long run. Men are men and kids are kids with the same DNA traits and the same desires. Now if there are alot more teams (but VHSL makes them even numbers) or they have access in the east to better equipment, facitilities, training (doubt it) or they have to play more bigger schools (maybe thats it?) or the western 2a schools recruit more 1a players than the east. Anyway..similar populations whether you are talking football players or competitions between any same organisms will come down to about 50/50 over the long run. XX vs. XY sperm compete in the race for the egg. That is not a coin flip either. It's a competition but we still have around 50/50 girls/boys even though there are families that have had all girls or all boys. .