Home Field Advantage

[mike salem]

Schools that have administrators who don't care about football, probably have losing teams. I recall years ago going to a meeting, and the guy conducting meeting said: "the most important person in the building is the Head Football Coach"

I know we all care about football, but in the overall scheme of things it's just one aspect of the educational experience. Going to both my kid's graduation in the last 2 years, you really begin to grasp what a monumental undertaking the whole educational experience is. I attended the scholarship awards ceremony and the graduation. After hearing the speakers, seeing the awards, and seeing all of the activities the kids were involved in during their 4 years, you start to realize that High schools do a lot more than just play football! They wouldn't underreport their ADM just to do well in one thing. Salem was successful for a lot more reasons than just winning the football championship. To start with 169/276 (61%) earned graduate honors for having a 3.0+ GPA!

 

[mike salem]

Well put, Mike. I fear the temptation to be competitive may lead them to play fast and furious with the rules. Also, I wonder if they may reinstitute some level of assistance with tuition to LU to stop the decline in enrollment? I don't think that is a violation of the VHSL rules.

When it comes to enrollment numbers that LCA reports to the VHSL for classification purposes, "The fox is guarding the hen house". They don't report ADM numbers. There is little or no way to verify the number they report.
What does this mean? Within plausible deniability parameters, LCA will proffer an attendance number that best serves their purposes.

They may also realize that being in the VHSL is not worth what they gave up to be admitted and decide to jump back to VISAA. We're talking about enrollment and ADM, will LCA accept the drop in enrollment to do well in sports? I think there are several considerations that I didn't realize would lead to certain consequences, maybe LCA did as well?

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I've wonder the same thing. What do they call this? The doctrine of unintended consequences?

I never saw any validity in their argument that being excluded from the VHSL was a significant monetary handicap for them. Huh? Just about the only athletic endevour that is not a break even or net loss is football. If they double the net gate on 10 games, which they split, it couldn't possibly amount to $20k a year. And I can all but guarantee you that the gate will not double. And remember, other than expenses, playoff games don't generate the participating teams much if any income.

I think the whole thing was driven by egos, and the mind set that they "can't be denied".

 

[DinwiddieProud]

By the way Navy, good topic. Rolled over to three pages on my format.

 

[wikki]

I question the ADM numbers of some public schools. There are several schools that were at one time, back in the day, powerful AAA or AA schools , Now they are in districts with smaller schools. Granted reclassification schemes play some role.

Yes at one time Amherst was AAA but the the enrollment numbers changed by the VHSL that may them drop down to AA. I know that who is you are referring to. Besides there has also been other schools that dropped from AAA to AA. Amherst always played up and they are one system that will not turn in wrong enrollment numbers. Glass has more students than Amherst and JF is not far behind so they are where they are by the enrollment numbers set by VHSL

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

LCA came to VHSL for scheduling and "cut down on travel". They were traveling to the far outposts within the state and North Carolina for games, when there are a lot of schools within Lynchburg area.

 

[shauntclair]

Schools that have administrators who don't care about football, probably have losing teams. I recall years ago going to a meeting, and the guy conducting meeting said: "the most important person in the building is the Head Football Coach"

And Gretnas excuse is what? Bad ADs? And the person that said "the most important person in the building is the head football coach" would be the first one I'd fire.

 

[shauntclair]

LCA came to VHSL for scheduling and "cut down on travel". They were traveling to the far outposts within the state and North Carolina for games, when there are a lot of schools within Lynchburg area.

Travel is a choice you make as a Private School and LCA lacks no funding for such expenditures. LCA made the move to the VHSL to win a State Championship and profess their religious beliefs using sports as a validating tool. You don't hire a bunch of Lawyers because you don't have bus fare. LU does the same. It's why their Stadium was expanded to DI FBS standards. The goal is a National Championship. Athletes for God. This is a cornerstone of the Falwell philosophy.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Liberty University and LCA are 2 separate schools.

LCA is a elementary school, middle school and high school. Liberty University is a college.

 

[shauntclair]

Liberty University and LCA are 2 separate schools.

LCA is a elementary school, middle school and high school. Liberty University is a college.

Well duh? They all fall under the same Falwell umbrella, have the same goals and the same financial and legal resources. LCA is located on the LU campus and share facilities. Nothing seperates them but the grade levels.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against LCA or LU. I had no issue with LCA being admitted to the VHSL as long as they were subject to the same rules. They otherwise have every right to run their institutions as they see fit. I accept them and what they stand for.

But I cannot understand how people do not recognize them for who they are. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

Travel is a choice you make as a Private School and LCA lacks no funding for such expenditures. LCA made the move to the VHSL to win a State Championship and profess their religious beliefs using sports as a validating tool. You don't hire a bunch of Lawyers because you don't have bus fare. LU does the same. It's why their Stadium was expanded to DI FBS standards. The goal is a National Championship. Athletes for God. This is a cornerstone of the Falwell philosophy.

What's wrong with that philosophy? If more programs emphasized the higher being or morals or beliefs and stuck to them then "better things" would happen within their program. Honestly, people make LCA being able to play with the public schools a big deal. I've played against LCA twice when I played varsity ball and watched them A LOT over the past 10 years and let's be real, they're NO DeMatha Catholic or Bishop Gorman. A real athlete is not going to look at it as "Awww we're playing LCA tonight..They recruit illegally.. They have more resources than us.. They shouldn't be allowed to play us..etc." They're going to embrace the challenge and kids are excited to play against them. GW Danville has been playing them for years in basketball, Dan River played them a couple of times and Gretna and Amherst played them in football.. LCA had ZERO advantage in any cases in any of those games, and in fact they lost more than half of those games to those public schools. The hate on LCA should really stop. You may not agree with their beliefs, you may not like them for other reasons, but you have to respect that they constantly give kids the opportunity to go to the next level (college) and like I said, they stick by their morals. Like him or not, Falwell is a man of character. Liberty is a state of the art university. They have rules, they're no non sense, they're stable, they're community orientated, their practice what they preach. Do I necessarily agree with everything they do and say? No... But I have great respect for his father, he, and the university and LCA.

 

[BleedingNavy]

What's wrong with that philosophy? If more programs emphasized the higher being or morals or beliefs and stuck to them then "better things" would happen within their program. Honestly, people make LCA being able to play with the public schools a big deal. I've played against LCA twice when I played varsity ball and watched them A LOT over the past 10 years and let's be real, they're NO DeMatha Catholic or Bishop Gorman. A real athlete is not going to look at it as "Awww we're playing LCA tonight..They recruit illegally.. They have more resources than us.. They shouldn't be allowed to play us..etc." They're going to embrace the challenge and kids are excited to play against them. GW Danville has been playing them for years in basketball, Dan River played them a couple of times and Gretna and Amherst played them in football.. LCA had ZERO advantage in any cases in any of those games, and in fact they lost more than half of those games to those public schools. The hate on LCA should really stop. You may not agree with their beliefs, you may not like them for other reasons, but you have to respect that they constantly give kids the opportunity to go to the next level (college) and like I said, they stick by their morals. Like him or not, Falwell is a man of character. Liberty is a state of the art university. They have rules, they're no non sense, they're stable, they're community orientated, their practice what they preach. Do I necessarily agree with everything they do and say? No... But I have great respect for his father, he, and the university and LCA.

Well said Danville. I really don't care how they got into the VHSL or the fact that they did. My sole concern is no different for LCA than any other VHSL member school. Play by the rules and may the best team win.

I acknowledge LCA beliefs and culture can be intimidating/uncomfortable for some; however, I have played at Liberty (formerly Liberty Baptist) and have attended several athletic events there. Not once did anyone do anything to harm or disrespect me. In fact, they treated us (teams and fans) very well.

I had the priviledge of umpiring several Vissa State Championship games in the past. Their players and coaching staff were very competitive, but always respectful.

Lets give them a chance. If they break the rules then consequences will be applied.

 

[shauntclair]

What's wrong with that philosophy? If more programs emphasized the higher being or morals or beliefs and stuck to them then "better things" would happen within their program. Honestly, people make LCA being able to play with the public schools a big deal. I've played against LCA twice when I played varsity ball and watched them A LOT over the past 10 years and let's be real, they're NO DeMatha Catholic or Bishop Gorman. A real athlete is not going to look at it as "Awww we're playing LCA tonight..They recruit illegally.. They have more resources than us.. They shouldn't be allowed to play us..etc." They're going to embrace the challenge and kids are excited to play against them. GW Danville has been playing them for years in basketball, Dan River played them a couple of times and Gretna and Amherst played them in football.. LCA had ZERO advantage in any cases in any of those games, and in fact they lost more than half of those games to those public schools. The hate on LCA should really stop. You may not agree with their beliefs, you may not like them for other reasons, but you have to respect that they constantly give kids the opportunity to go to the next level (college) and like I said, they stick by their morals. Like him or not, Falwell is a man of character. Liberty is a state of the art university. They have rules, they're no non sense, they're stable, they're community orientated, their practice what they preach. Do I necessarily agree with everything they do and say? No... But I have great respect for his father, he, and the university and LCA.

Did I say anything about the philosophy being wrong? If you can legally create an entity that simply preys on the ignorant and makes you money, more power to you. Religion. It is the oldest scam in the world and still works today. And there are more sheep than ever to be fleeced. Organized religion has always been thus and Falwell has refined the art even more. PT Barnum would be proud. It's always money and power. Always. And we're not isolating LU here. Governments. Countries. Religion. They all manipulate and deceive you. I'm sorry you're just one of the flock.

 

[BleedingNavy]

Shanti, I don't necessarily agree with you about all religions preying on the "ignorant". Some religious and most political leaders are excellent con men/women.

Many (me included) make an educated decision based on faith. This may sound like a ridiculous analogy, but gamblers do the same by betting on games based on odds. Call me a sucker if you want, but I like the odds spelled out in the Bible.

Do you really think Liberty (Falwell) believes God gives a rip about sports? If that were the case the religiously founded schools would rule the world. Liberty does encourage their athletes to lead others to the Lord. I can speak from experience not a word was spoken about God when one of their players knocked me or a teamate on our rears, but they did briefly ask us questions after the game. You either listened or you didn't. No harm no foul.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Thats what open discussions are about.

 

[ClarkeFan83]

Shanti, I don't necessarily agree with you about all religions preying on the "ignorant". Some religious and most political leaders are excellent con men/women.

Many (me included) make an educated decision based on faith. This may sound like a ridiculous analogy, but gamblers do the same by betting on games based on odds. Call me a sucker if you want, but I like the odds spelled out in the Bible.

Do you really think Liberty (Falwell) believes God gives a rip about sports? If that were the case the religiously founded schools would rule the world. Liberty does encourage their athletes to lead others to the Lord. I can speak from experience not a word was spoken about God when one of their players knocked me or a teamate on our rears, but they did briefly ask us questions after the game. You either listened or you didn't. No harm no foul.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Thats what open discussions are about.

Sadly, I quit going to church after being let down by the "leadership" too often, the almighty dollar rules organized religion. So I just do my own thing now.

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

Did I say anything about the philosophy being wrong? If you can legally create an entity that simply preys on the ignorant and makes you money, more power to you. Religion. It is the oldest scam in the world and still works today. And there are more sheep than ever to be fleeced. Organized religion has always been thus and Falwell has refined the art even more. PT Barnum would be proud. It's always money and power. Always. And we're not isolating LU here. Governments. Countries. Religion. They all manipulate and deceive you. I'm sorry you're just one of the flock.

I haven't been to church in years. I think religion is full of man made doctrines because 95% of the time they take the word in the good book and twist and turn it to benefit their beliefs or doctrine.. So I'm definitely not apart of the flock you speak of. However, if thats what a person wants to do then that's their prerogative and I can respect it. I have a great deal of respect for Liberty.. Like I stated before, I don't agree with everything they say and do (hence doctrines and some of their conservative beliefs although I'm rather conservative and understand why they have these views) but they put their money where their mouth is and they stress education and makes attempts to make a difference. More power to them!

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

There have been public high schools within VHSL, that recruit "better" than anything LCA ever did.

The high school sports Gurus that follow high school sports closely throughout the region and state should be able to attest to this.

I know of a couple cases that would make any college recruiting coordinator proud.

 

[shauntclair]

Shanti, I don't necessarily agree with you about all religions preying on the "ignorant". Some religious and most political leaders are excellent con men/women.

Many (me included) make an educated decision based on faith. This may sound like a ridiculous analogy, but gamblers do the same by betting on games based on odds. Call me a sucker if you want, but I like the odds spelled out in the Bible.

Do you really think Liberty (Falwell) believes God gives a rip about sports? If that were the case the religiously founded schools would rule the world. Liberty does encourage their athletes to lead others to the Lord. I can speak from experience not a word was spoken about God when one of their players knocked me or a teamate on our rears, but they did briefly ask us questions after the game. You either listened or you didn't. No harm no foul.

Thanks for expressing your opinion. Thats what open discussions are about.

Opinion accepted on faith. I won't dispute someone's devotion there.

But, of course, God could give two hoots about sports. Where could that activity possibly rate within the scope of humanity? But about the odds, LU says the earth is no more than 7000 years olds. Believe in the bible all you want, but those odds of being right only range between astronomical and absolutely impossible. And of course you know the Bible was not created till the Council of Nicea, where hundreds of clerics decided on what writings were appropriate and which were not. I'm sure you're also aware of all those Gospels that were omitted. Almost 300 years after the death of Christ and specifically aimed at stopping the unrest in the Roman Empire. Where the Emperor converted and made Christianity the Official religion for purely political reasons. And that all the deaths at Nagasaki and Hiroshima pale in comparison those caused by Christianity.

But LU is about athletes for God. Winning is for propaganda purposes. Total Nazi Goering. Image is everything. You can see this on a tour of the Campus. The athletes stay in Town houses. The rest stay in the most basic of dorms. The Sports training facility is State of the Art. The student Union is a warehouse with old chairs and couches. The class rooms are HS quality at best. The Falwell "shrine" cost many millions. Other "public forums" are lavish and opulent.

My disdain is apparent so I won't go on but I have nothing against their right to exist or their entry into the VHSL. People believe what they want. Being at peace with that is a good thing. GL in 2016.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

LU athletic facilities are better than those of many FBS schools. and they are building better ones on Liberty mountain as I type this message. LU baseball field is ranked #4 in the nation. The LU softball field is ranked #2, behind LSU at #1. I talked with some who are familiar with both, and they say LU's is better than LSU's.
Down the road, these facilities will help LU's recruiting, along with the new academic buildings, music hall, etc.

Like Doctor Falwell said, "if it's Christian , it should be better"

 

[shauntclair]

LU athletic facilities are better than those of many FBS schools. and they are building better ones on Liberty mountain as I type this message. LU baseball field is ranked #4 in the nation. The LU softball field is ranked #2, behind LSU at #1. I talked with some who are familiar with both, and they say LU's is better than LSU's.
Down the road, these facilities will help LU's recruiting, along with the new academic buildings, music hall, etc.

Like Doctor Falwell said, "if it's Christian , it should be better"

The facilities are very good for athletes. I said as much. Unfortunately, the team rankings don't reflect this.

I had two kids recruited by LU. I've been on the grand tour multiple times. Every positive point was emphasized. From an athletic standpoint, they are impressive. From a school and atmosphere standpoint, neither wanted to go. And I did not influence their decision at all. Once they saw VT, JMU and UVA it was no contest. Their choice. Thank God.

LU can get some good players. They've had some good players. They provide incredible support to their athletes. but nobody with half a brain wants to go there, no matter what the facilities are.

 

[wikki]

The facilities are very good for athletes. I said as much. Unfortunately, the team rankings don't reflect this.

I had two kids recruited by LU. I've been on the grand tour multiple times. Every positive point was emphasized. From an athletic standpoint, they are impressive. From a school and atmosphere standpoint, neither wanted to go. And I did not influence their decision at all. Once they saw VT, JMU and UVA it was no contest. Their choice. Thank God.

LU can get some good players. They've had some good players. They provide incredible support to their athletes. but nobody with half a brain wants to go there, no matter what the facilities are.

After reading everyone's post, still had not changed my mind at all on how I feel about LCA. I belong to Thomas Road and loved listening to Dr. Falwell peach back in the day. Jonathan is also great. Cheer for LU all the time. But I am not a fan of LCA, never have and never will be. I have several reasons why and they are legit, that is all I am saying

 

[wikki]

There have been public high schools within VHSL, that recruit "better" than anything LCA ever did.

The high school sports Gurus that follow high school sports closely throughout the region and state should be able to attest to this.

I know of a couple cases that would make any college recruiting coordinator proud.

Maybe they did but they couldn't offer college educations for transferring

 

[Panther80ram]

Maybe some folks like other aspects outside of religion and that is why they choose LCA. Very much considered sending my own kids there and I don't consider myself a very religious person.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I disliked private schools all my life until I joined Thomas Road Baptist Church, and got to be around LCA students, faculty and Administrators there. The problems I see at public schools , I do not see at LCA. In my opinion, LCA is one of the best high schools in the state, if not the best.

 

[wikki]

I disliked private schools all my life until I joined Thomas Road Baptist Church, and got to be around LCA students, faculty and Administrators there. The problems I see at public schools , I do not see at LCA. In my opinion, LCA is one of the best high schools in the state, if not the best.

I know lots of people there and trust me they have issues too and some just like public schools, bullying is a big one

 

[mike salem]

I know lots of people there and trust me they have issues too and some just like public schools, bullying is a big one

From my experience nearly 25 years ago, cliques were the worst part of my school years. Bullying was minimal, but my class was 1/3 to 1/4 the size of now. There was drinking, drug use, sex, etc, but I'm not sure what other people were doing!!! Jk, sort of, but generally I don't think the problems at LCA are as numerous or as pervasive as at other local schools from my experience.

 

[wikki]

From my experience nearly 25 years ago, cliques were the worst part of my school years. Bullying was minimal, but my class was 1/3 to 1/4 the size of now. There was drinking, drug use, sex, etc, but I'm not sure what other people were doing!!! Jk, sort of, but generally I don't think the problems at LCA are as numerous or as pervasive as at other local schools from my experience.

Not as numerous but they exist and the same issues as public schools. I work with some parents whose children attend and it happens more than you think. I have other issues with them that I am not going to discuss

 

[mike salem]

Not as numerous but they exist and the same issues as public schools. I work with some parents whose children attend and it happens more than you think. I have other issues with them that I am not going to discuss

I'm not denying problems, I know they exist and are worse than when I was there. Compared to similarly sized public schools the problems probably aren't as pervasive or numerous, but definitely there and everywhere.