If you can't beat 'em...close 'em down....
- Thread starter GilliamRatings
- Start date
Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
anybody else? Not sure what to think or say just yet. Probably best that I bite my tongue and just think about it a little while and hear from people more directly affected by this proposal. I will say I have respect for Coach Sawyer, his staff and some others associated with LT that I have known over the years.
anybody else? Not sure what to think or say just yet. Probably best that I bite my tongue and just think about it a little while and hear from people more directly affected by this proposal. I will say I have respect for Coach Sawyer, his staff and some others associated with LT that I have known over the years.
Re: Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
I do not like that idea. Sounds to me as if someone thinks current high schools are not doing their job, thus they feel the need for some type academy.
The way education seems to be headed, in a matter of years most all schools will close:
Voc Techs
Stem Academys
Governors School
Home School
Alternative school
No students will be left to go to regular high school.
I do not like that idea. Sounds to me as if someone thinks current high schools are not doing their job, thus they feel the need for some type academy.
The way education seems to be headed, in a matter of years most all schools will close:
Voc Techs
Stem Academys
Governors School
Home School
Alternative school
No students will be left to go to regular high school.
So, would this school have its own athletic teams or would students compete for the school in whose attendance zone they live? If the latter, then I have no doubt that Coach Sawyer could easily get another job and continue his winning ways. Dividing the Norfolk population into four schools would probably push them into higher classifications.
If the new school has their own teams, I see a lot of recruiting taking place. Heck, it will be more of a college than a high school.
The magnet, alternative, and governors schools can field their own VHSL teams. Maggie Walker Governors, Galieo in Danville are examples. Chesterfield's alternative went to the 2a states in bb a couple of yrs ago.
As written in the referenced article:
The public charter would accommodate four academies, including a Trades and Industrial Technology Academy, with an emphasis on regional maritime trades, a Business & Information Technology Academy, a Governor's Health and Medical Science Academy and a Governor's STEM Academy.
I think we all would agree that a well planned, focused effort to prepare our kids for the employment opportunities in the local area. Heavens knows, you can't find fault with that.
Should they do away with a current high school to accomadate the new facility? I'm suspicious of this idea. I find it hard to believe that there is no other suitable location for this proposed school.
Do you remember when it was proposed to put tolls, and toll collection facilities, on I 95 in Southside Virginia? And the purpose was to generate funds to support highway improvements, primarily in Northern Virginia. Do you know the real reason for the attempt to locate this toll road in the Southside? It was because the legislators from Northern Virginia and other urban areas knew that the legislators in the Southside were not as powerful, or as politically connected as most of them are. In fact, it was never stated in public, but the generally feeling of many of the Northern legislators is that the representatives of the people from the rural areas of Southside and Southwestern Virginia are simply not as smart as they are. Oh how I wish they would utter this thought to a reporter one day.
The thought process that I stated above, makes me wonder if Lake Taylor was singled out because of a similar perception by the members of the Norfolk School Board? I would like to see that question asked directly, face to face, at a school board meeting.
The public charter would accommodate four academies, including a Trades and Industrial Technology Academy, with an emphasis on regional maritime trades, a Business & Information Technology Academy, a Governor's Health and Medical Science Academy and a Governor's STEM Academy.
I think we all would agree that a well planned, focused effort to prepare our kids for the employment opportunities in the local area. Heavens knows, you can't find fault with that.
Should they do away with a current high school to accomadate the new facility? I'm suspicious of this idea. I find it hard to believe that there is no other suitable location for this proposed school.
Do you remember when it was proposed to put tolls, and toll collection facilities, on I 95 in Southside Virginia? And the purpose was to generate funds to support highway improvements, primarily in Northern Virginia. Do you know the real reason for the attempt to locate this toll road in the Southside? It was because the legislators from Northern Virginia and other urban areas knew that the legislators in the Southside were not as powerful, or as politically connected as most of them are. In fact, it was never stated in public, but the generally feeling of many of the Northern legislators is that the representatives of the people from the rural areas of Southside and Southwestern Virginia are simply not as smart as they are. Oh how I wish they would utter this thought to a reporter one day.
The thought process that I stated above, makes me wonder if Lake Taylor was singled out because of a similar perception by the members of the Norfolk School Board? I would like to see that question asked directly, face to face, at a school board meeting.
This has been in the work for awhile now. LT was suppose to become the Norfolk VoTech with open enrollment and would keep its athletics teams, which in my honest opinion would make this school a gold mine. With that being said they plan on keeping the enrollment on par with Lake Taylor's current enrollment which means they would probably be in 4a. I already can see the controversy brewing and the good thing is this probably won't happen for a couple of year because they plan on building the new school directly behind the current school and keep the current school open until construction is done. If you have ever been to Lake Taylor you know their is land for days on the school grounds.
Devils, you should have as much insight as anyone, but I think LT is getting a raw deal. Like I said, the idea of the school is terrific, but doing away with the identity of LT is short sighted.
For what it is worth, I know schools just have to be shut down, consolidated, whatever, from time to time. But, I just hate the idea. To me, it's like a church shutting down after it has been around for 100 years. All the friendships, all the memories, all just go away like they never meant anything.
My elementary school was bull dozed and cheap houses were built where I spent my childhood. My high school became the Appomattox Regional Governors School. This effectively erased most of the tangible part of my school years. Maybe these things were necessary, but it doesn't mean I liked it.
(Of course, one of my employees said knocking down my elementary school after I went there says it all about me. I've got to find a nice long ditch for that boy to dig).
DP
For what it is worth, I know schools just have to be shut down, consolidated, whatever, from time to time. But, I just hate the idea. To me, it's like a church shutting down after it has been around for 100 years. All the friendships, all the memories, all just go away like they never meant anything.
My elementary school was bull dozed and cheap houses were built where I spent my childhood. My high school became the Appomattox Regional Governors School. This effectively erased most of the tangible part of my school years. Maybe these things were necessary, but it doesn't mean I liked it.
(Of course, one of my employees said knocking down my elementary school after I went there says it all about me. I've got to find a nice long ditch for that boy to dig).
DP
Thanks for the input Devils. A couple of follow up questions for you. You say this has been in the works for a while now, any idea how long actually? Do you know the stated and, if applicable, unstated reasons that LT was chosen over one of the other Norfolk schools? From your first post and my knowledge of the LT site I initially wondered if it was a case of having available land and making the transition as easy as possible. Finally, you refer to open enrollment while at the same time keeping enrollment on par with LT's current enrollment, have you heard any process discussed as to how they would achieve that? I can see heavy interest in the curriculum and demand for the spots along with a wide open slate to get kids from all over the city which could create a lot of sub agendas. Maybe this is one of the controversies you see brewing.
When it comes to the Norfolk HS Granby, Maury, and BTW have alumni and supporters that are very vocal and have a lot to say if ANYTHING goes on with those schools so they weren't great candidates. Norview HS was rebuilt within the last 10 years which leaves LT which was built in 1967. LT has the most land out of all the Norfolk high schools and is around the corner from the current Votech school. The idea for rebuilding or rebranding LT into a Vocational High School has been kicked around for the last 5 years and it went to vote actually 2 years ago and passed and was put into the plan to build like 5 K-8 schools in Norfolk. They were talking about rezoning at one time to make all the Norfolk schools 5a, but from what I heard they wanted to keep the new Votech high school around 1250. But in an article a couple years ago they talked about 1600 students. Again this is years away from happening and the way our budget is in Norfolk I think it is highly unlikely. The Superintendent is under a lot of scrutiny and is trying to divert attention off himself.
Article from 2013
Article from 2013
IMO , if this happens the new charter school should be considered a private school for Athletic purposes. The charter school will be able to draw kids from multiple areas of the region it exists. just like a private school. " recruiting" . can see it now, " Hey if you can't pass your math test, or you can't read but you are a heck of athlete. Come to our Charter school, we will teach you how to be a welder, and you still get to play.
I see no problem with giving kids more opportunities. Students will still have to meet academic requirements. Do you honestly think that these students won't have to pass math and English or even take those courses once they are accepted into the charter school? Kids in low income areas need more opportunity, not less - anything that will give them new skills and most importantly the hope to overcome some of their impoverished circumstances is a win in my book. I don't think members of the school board or community are hatching some plot to either take away the great things Lake Taylor has built nor create some super hot bed of athletic teams made up of undeserving athletes. Just my opinion.
They will have to take core classes in this school, so that won't be the case. What's any different than schools using IB programs or whatever program they offer to get kids to come to their school? Should they be private schools?
As a teacher I think going to a system like they do in Europe would benefit a lot of kids. It's like this either you are on the academic path or the vocational path. Some kids are just in school because their parents make them come to school and have no interest in finishing school or performing well in school. Providing them with a vocational path will help them possibly become a productive citizen. Honestly it has the possibility of being a great opportunity for those type of students.
This is nothing different than what Chesterfield and Henrico have been doin
Each high school in Chesterfield is a specialty school. Any student in Chesterfield can apply to go to the high school that houses the specialty they want to concentrate in.
Henrico is the same way.
Each high school in Chesterfield is a specialty school. Any student in Chesterfield can apply to go to the high school that houses the specialty they want to concentrate in.
Henrico is the same way.
Re: This is nothing different than what Chesterfield and Henrico have been doin
Chesterfield also has a big vo tech center near Bird and another one at the old Clover Hill HS.
Chesterfield also has a big vo tech center near Bird and another one at the old Clover Hill HS.
Land big enough for a hs is hard to come by especially in a city. The new William Fleming in north Roanoke was built next to the old one. Danville built one middle school next to another onea and both are open.
Interesting comment about the NPS superintendent. My experince has been Supes are slick rascals always out for themselves. Devils comments lead me to believe NPS has a typical one.
Interesting comment about the NPS superintendent. My experince has been Supes are slick rascals always out for themselves. Devils comments lead me to believe NPS has a typical one.
Re: Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
My son is in Governor's School. It is pretty awesome.
My son is in Governor's School. It is pretty awesome.
The question is this. Are the Norfolk schools anywhere near their capacities now? If not, why build a new school?
Chesterfield County is almost like that now with the specialty centers
Each HS has its own speciality center. Most any student will tell you what comes first at each school.
Each HS has its own speciality center. Most any student will tell you what comes first at each school.
Because when it comes to things in Norfolk BTW and Lake Taylor are the last schools to receive anything. Granby was renovated along with Maury, and Norview was rebuilt. None of these schools are near capacity, but they are truing to close down the Votech because where it is being housed can no long accommodate the demand. LT was chose and it goes along with the super idea of having charters in Norfolk. He tried turning a bunch of the middle schools into charter schools when this idea first started coming out. Our Super is from GA he was paid to relocate 3 years ago, but he has yet to buy a house or even move his family from GA. He was outed a couple of months ago for being a candidate for a job super job back in GA and it created a bunch of headlines here in Norfolk. NPS is a mess to say the least.
Actually, I think the idea was to collect tolls as revenue to fund traffic
improvements in both NOVA and the Tidewater area. Both areas, I might add, that have been prevented from improving their traffic-clogged road nets themselves by arcane state funding regulations despite both areas contributing far more revenue to the state (in the form of taxes) than they get in return from the state. The tolls being on the southside to collect tolls as vehicles enter and exit the state with the collection faciliites less likely to create more congestion than if they were put up north on the already choked roads. I don't think its that the "northern" legislators think the rest are dumb, it is more likely that they tired of the region and their constituents being held hostage by an obsolete state road improvement funding model (it being kind to call it a model).
improvements in both NOVA and the Tidewater area. Both areas, I might add, that have been prevented from improving their traffic-clogged road nets themselves by arcane state funding regulations despite both areas contributing far more revenue to the state (in the form of taxes) than they get in return from the state. The tolls being on the southside to collect tolls as vehicles enter and exit the state with the collection faciliites less likely to create more congestion than if they were put up north on the already choked roads. I don't think its that the "northern" legislators think the rest are dumb, it is more likely that they tired of the region and their constituents being held hostage by an obsolete state road improvement funding model (it being kind to call it a model).
Re: This is nothing different than what Chesterfield and Henrico have been doin
I hate this subject-specific "excellence center" approach to school districts where the individual schools also house departments for those subjects. How absurd is it to be a fine arts teacher at any Newport News high school with a fine arts magnet program at Woodside HS stealing all of the quality fine arts students.
Athletics aside, this magnet school approach usually leads to redundancy & mediocrity within the entire school division.
I hate this subject-specific "excellence center" approach to school districts where the individual schools also house departments for those subjects. How absurd is it to be a fine arts teacher at any Newport News high school with a fine arts magnet program at Woodside HS stealing all of the quality fine arts students.
Athletics aside, this magnet school approach usually leads to redundancy & mediocrity within the entire school division.
private school law suit
From what I've read in this post an what I know of charter schools. If VHSL allows a charter school to play in the VHSL I'd thing that would hurt there case about keeping private schools out.
From what I've read in this post an what I know of charter schools. If VHSL allows a charter school to play in the VHSL I'd thing that would hurt there case about keeping private schools out.
Re: Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
Gotta' admit. All 3 of mine went to Governor's school. It is way better than regular HS. But it is not for everyone. I'd know it's just idealism but I'd like to believe those standards should be the bar for any Public School. If I were a Principle, that would be my starting point. Again, it's probably idealism but they'd have to fire my ass before I lower expectations.
Gotta' admit. All 3 of mine went to Governor's school. It is way better than regular HS. But it is not for everyone. I'd know it's just idealism but I'd like to believe those standards should be the bar for any Public School. If I were a Principle, that would be my starting point. Again, it's probably idealism but they'd have to fire my ass before I lower expectations.
Re: Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
Oh crap, Shaunty. Let me do this before someone else does. Principal not Principle.
Oh crap, Shaunty. Let me do this before someone else does. Principal not Principle.
As a teacher I'm baffled by how the Division gives away 1.6 million dollars in free federal money when all they had to do was meet SPENDING deadlines. So you have to spend 1.6 million on ANYTHING you want and you choose to not spend it considering all the problems we have in the division?? Super needs to go!!
Re: Comments from Norfolk/Tidewater folks or ....
Thanks. Just wrote a report on implementation, maintenance principles and standards. Easy to make the old man's mind get off track these days. Thanks again.
Thanks. Just wrote a report on implementation, maintenance principles and standards. Easy to make the old man's mind get off track these days. Thanks again.
