when officials determine the outcome of a game! one official specifically just had to be the star of the show and was determined to decide the game on his own! enough said about this!
It is a shame
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It's a shame you can't go enjoy a high school football game without hearing Giles fans cuss every second of the game. All I'll say is if I would've had a child with me it would've gotten ugly. Classless buncha folks on that visitors side in Glenvar tonight.
They did do an awful lot of swearing tonight. One guy took it too far when he yelled a phrase that included 'GD' at the top of his lungs.
I heard that as well. I didn't care who won as I just wanted to see some good high school ball being played. We all love it but some folks need to realize it's just a game not life or death. If it is that to you then you need help. Overall good game to both just disapointed with the way adults acted at that game.
Was not at this game so not commenting on nothing dealing with this game in general. I have been going to high school football games for 20 years. I have never seen officiating as poor as it is right now in general. Seen comment on here that officials never cost games. Thats all they do now. I have seen to many games that was decided by referees. So far this year I have seen targetting three times. One to quote official" leaving feet and hitting rb" mind you not even above shoulders. Have seen again to quote" excessive blocking" when lineman drives dl down field and pancakes him but was supposedly not neede since play was going to other side. Seen lb and rb both lower heads in hole n lb get called for helmet to helmet. One that was even reported to vhsl when ref tells girl playing on our jv that she needs to get off field cause girls have no business playing. Cannot count the defensive holding calls I have seen. I watched dlineman leave early is 5 yards in backfield before snap n takes punter out just is he is catching snap n hurts punter and all that is called is offsides. Actually good to know all you have to do is just take off real early n drill punter before snap n take punter out. Thats worth just5 yards. Almost all the targetting,defensive chop block, n helmet to helmet calls have negated 3rd down stops n led to scores. I seen a team start at there 25 n get to first n goal with never gaining a yard on a play. I work with couple high school refs who brag on the 60 they make just forabout two hours so dont act like they do this for nothing. Lost alot of respect for officiating this year, they trying to turn it into flag football. LET THE KIDS PLAY AND DECIDE THE GAME!!! LEAVE THEM YELLOW FLAGS AT THE GATE!!!
Oh n forgot the first I seen last night. Defensive End called for chop block 15 yard penalty after stopping them in backfield on 3rd down. By the way game was tied and they scored on next play.
I yelled bs last night...can't lie...said it at least 3 times....the offsides that wasn't called where everyone saw it....the late hit thrown by the refs that was right beside the play and as the qb was tiptoeing down the side said he went out 2 yrds back and so he threw the flag but if he'd blown the whistle it wouldn't have happened at really all that happened was a bump to put him out....and idk how you get a targeting call while on offense on a busted play that everyone saw coming and the defender got hit square in the chest with shoulder pads and our players feet never left the ground....it was a great textbook hit....it was a hard hit...and it was a necessary hit...7 refs now at most games...seems like they feel like they aren't doing a good job unless they throw some flags...
If seven refs are dropping the ball on those calls, imagine having only five working the field. I've only seen one game in the east that had six refs. The rest were five. In a previous game, the refs blew the whistle when they saw the running back being tackled.News flash, the qb was behind the defense headed for the enzone. Problems all over.
Ghs89er they are getting carried away with these targetting calls. This is football not the chess club. Also if whistle has not been blown these kids have always been told to hit til the whistle. I have gotten equally as mad and and when these kids work there butts off year round as hard as they can and some adult in stripe shirt takes from them there is reason to be mad. Only thing I will say on this game is that at of all the places I have been to watch football in 20 years the best atmosphere, best host, and best sportsmanship I have seen was at Giles even after a lose to us in a hard fought fair game.
You miss the point on officials never cost teams a game. I am sure there have been terrible calls throughout the country, but the point is that had the losing teams executed better in the game then a bad call would not have mattered. That is the thing that I don't get when people complain about the officials, they seem to want to blame them instead of saying well we should have played better, executed better, etc. It is always some other reason why we lost.
As for one of the calls that you pointed out about the punter, if he was offsides by 5 yards, then it is encroachment. Now the hitting the punter could have been personal foul after. And yes, they get paid, nobody ever said they didn't, but the point is that they take a lot of flack for trying to do the best they can. Sure we will all not agree with some of their calls, I know I havent, but its just a part of the game. And to people with football knowledge, which I would think you have some, it is ridiculous to sit at a game and hear people complain just about every play on something they think they see when it isnt even close. But I can just imagine how everyone on here and across the nation would feel if your advice was taken and they "leave them yellow flags at the gate"
One thing I have really noticed is lack of whistle being blown to end play. It feels like most times they expect the kids to see they ballcarrier go down and just stop. Seen Wilson be flagged several times this year for hits when no whistle has been blown yet.
Bad calls always effect the outcome....bad calls at pivotal tines definitely do...bad no calls do to....it's going to happen but if it's lopsided it drives me crazy.....I watched football at all levels..moot caring who wins sometimes...until a terrible call is made and then I start rooting for the team that got screwed
It might be an indirect factor in affecting the outcome, but it has NEVER been the reason a team lost. Heck, I will take it a step further. Remember a few years ago with the replacement refs in the NFL and the call at the end of game that was TERRIBLE. Yes that call effected the outcome, it still wasn't the reason the team lost. They didn't execute as well throughout the rest of the game. Never leave something to chance of human error.
So if both teams play a perfect game...and a referee makes a bad call at the end which allows a team to score...it doesn't effect the outcome...how bout Detroit last week....come on man...who u fooling...if it's your team that gets the short end of the stick on a terrible call you know it effects everything...your playoff seating...matchups...all of it...it's part of the game.....and seldom do I see it called bad on purpose or with malice....but sometimes I do wonder
I actually said that EXACT thing in either this thread or the other one about this game. Calls from game for my team Friday, and I said "these did not cause them to lose" so whats your next excuse
And yes how about Detroit last week. The player obviously didnt know the rule, but are you trying to tell me that he couldn't just as easily catch the ball and had the same thing happen? And I have seen some great football in my life, I have never seen anyone play a perfect game. That is just ridiculous to use that analogy to try and prove a point. It never happens
Ok...not a Detroit fan...but how's this...the pass interference that was picked up last year...it cost them the game...now u can say they shoulda over came that...but I say to you that every bad call or no call effects everything from your play calling to the score...calls at pivotal times matter more but they all matter...you're kidding yourself if you don't see that...if bad calls are equal then yes it's a fair game...but they matter...you talk about last week's game...every commentator last week said it cost Detroit the game...guess they're all wrong too
Yes, last week was a bad call because it was a penalty, but again you missed the entire point of what I said. The Seattle play could just as easily caught the fumble off the bounce, but he didn't and therefore it should have been a penalty. And STILL you are not reading and understanding my point. Take yourself out of the fan role and try to understand. Yes bad calls are a part of the game and yes they can cost a team, they can change everything, THEY ARE NOT THE REASON A TEAM LOSES. It is hilarious to me that your complaining about the calls are over offsides, holding, etc when the calls from the game of my team (which I said wasnt the reason they lost) were actual game changing calls. Everyone in the stadium home and away (with differing reactions) knew that the kid caught a long pass play inside redzone, but called incomplete, and then the real play that you would call the difference in the game was a fumble that was called a fumble on the play by the only official close to the play, was then overturned. People that complain about officials and say "they cost us the game, would say that would be the play that cost them." But someone who doesn't view everything through rose colored glasses can see that one play, two plays, whatever isn't the reason a team lost.
Yes last year playoff game was a bad no call, but there again Detroit should not have let it come down to that play. There is human error in everything. If you are perfect and insusceptible to that, then you are the first person since Jesus to be and I can't argue with you because you would be right about everything. Heck, I am not saying that I am definitely right about any of this, but that is certainly how I feel, and it is certainly one of those things that gets to me when I hear fans from anywhere and any sport say well this or that made us lose, not that we didn't play as well as we could have/should have or that the other team was better that day. And I certainly hate to see officials talked about like they are nothing, because they do the best job they can, whether it is good or not. I have no ill will towards you or anyone and I wish your team the best of luck the rest of the season and wish you the best of luck as well. Have a good evening
Yes last year playoff game was a bad no call, but there again Detroit should not have let it come down to that play. There is human error in everything. If you are perfect and insusceptible to that, then you are the first person since Jesus to be and I can't argue with you because you would be right about everything. Heck, I am not saying that I am definitely right about any of this, but that is certainly how I feel, and it is certainly one of those things that gets to me when I hear fans from anywhere and any sport say well this or that made us lose, not that we didn't play as well as we could have/should have or that the other team was better that day. And I certainly hate to see officials talked about like they are nothing, because they do the best job they can, whether it is good or not. I have no ill will towards you or anyone and I wish your team the best of luck the rest of the season and wish you the best of luck as well. Have a good evening
Your point is pointless....if they can change everything then you finally got my point...congrats.. I was starting to think you were stupid..mwhew...glad that's over
How bout this....we agree that some people just suck at their jobs...and some do it on purpose. ...and sometimes it's just human perception....slow motion and higher ground makes it easier to see...and we hope it doesn'thappen to out team
Pfft.. trust me, Green Bay has had 100 calls go in their favor compared to that one bad call. The only difference is the media blows that play out of proportion each and every season.
I have seen some idiotic refs this year myself. I run chains sometimes, and I can tell you some stories. Had refs tell opposing d lineman to back up after flaggin our team for lining up in the neutral zone. Illegal motion on us when a wingback went in motion and the d end jumped offsides, Not throwing the flag when the other team has too many players on the field, then tells me he felt bad cause the player looked to tired to run hard enough top get off the field. So many late hits that aren't called, holding calls, stripped balls that aren't really stripped because forward progress was supposedly stopped. 95% of the problem is most of the refs are watching the play instead of the area they are suppose to be watching.
Refs seem to be bad at all levels more this season than before. Too many flags are being thrown. If infraction doesn't have a bearing on the play, leave flag tucked away. Everyone knows holding can be called on every play, same with block in back on long plays.
Friday night I saw chop block called on the defense. That flag must have been burning the ref's pants.
Friday night I saw chop block called on the defense. That flag must have been burning the ref's pants.
Do officials get it wrong? Yes at all levels from time to time. They are human like the rest of us. Are there some who might intentionally or unintentionally favor one team over another? Yes, however, they are far outnumbered by guys who are just trying to do their job and love the game. The dirty ones rarely last very long in the business. As opposed to whining about officials pick up a damn flag and get out there and try it yourself to get a little more perspective.
Don't have a dog in this fight on either team's side and have been on both sides of the fence in many years of playing, coaching and following the game. This is about behaving with the maturity and perspective of an adult.
To me it's about the innocence of the game...it is just a game...but the kids go n give their all for hometown pride...the people who officiate owe the game their best with non biased calls and knowledge of the rules and doing their best to make sure the game is called fairly and objectively...in other words call it the same both ways....in my time I've seen several games called one way...it takes away the innocence of the game...it lessons it...taints it....and no one wants that...sometimes it might be just accidentally done....and that's why there should be someone to show these errors and say you need to do better or don't referee anymore...there are some people who just like power over a situation...or have a dislike for a team for some reason...these things cause a biases....human nature...just like it's human nature to get ticked off when a terrible call happens to your team...it is what it is
Is there a review process in place to at least point out when a official or officials are not adhering to the rules? I know they are "contract" agents assigned by the association they belong to and must be agreed upon by both faculties (based on VHSL website). I would think that there is a greivence process to improve the overall quality of the officiating should questions arise. If not then there is another glaring hole in the VHSL administration of HS sports. Refs in the NFL have their own association but fall under the scrutiny of the league office when questions arise. We can argue their favoritism separtly but the idea behind it is the key. I think most of these guys try to do their best, giving them a scorecard after each game shouldn't be a big deal.
There is a serious problem with the idea of scoring them though RedPride. Now I don't know the details of this game, and really don't need to, but what you would have is one side complaining just about every game (whether they are justified or not). There would have to be someone unbiased there to do this, and that is a lot of extra people with all of the games. Now the only way that I see that this would be feasible is having multiple reports for the same official, but it is still very grey area to me. And I certainly don't think it would help this situation because what I have seen on this game, people are complaining that these officials (or official) was biased on purpose, if that is the case, then they wouldn't do it at other places. I like the idea of some kind of system to monitor these guys, but I don't know what it is
The integrity of the game has to be important. I do not have a clue of what "actually" happened in the Giles/Glenvar game because it's perseption from both fan bases. Perseption is reality, so while both are right, both are also wrong.
I would suggest an independent official from VHSL, not the officials association, should have to be present to score. While both teams have an administrator grade the officials. Weigh the "losing" teams score accordingly since there will always be complainers. Review weekly, monthly, and yearly to determine if there is a problem. Consistency is what we all are wanting after all.
And I understand your argument about an official that is clearly "against" a team. But wouldn't that show after multiple contacts with that team? This would not be a one game fix but a systemic approach to providing a higher standard for the officials. If there is no scale or expectation, then we get what we get.
Love the game and can't say I haven't lost my $h!t over some calls before. I have a list of officials that do our local games I prefer not to see take the field. I respect what they do and have had great conversations with a few who feel the pressure to make the right calls. It's not a science, sometimes it's simply a judgment call, and there is no replay so they must hone their skill real time. Not asking for a pro but I do want consistency.
I would suggest an independent official from VHSL, not the officials association, should have to be present to score. While both teams have an administrator grade the officials. Weigh the "losing" teams score accordingly since there will always be complainers. Review weekly, monthly, and yearly to determine if there is a problem. Consistency is what we all are wanting after all.
And I understand your argument about an official that is clearly "against" a team. But wouldn't that show after multiple contacts with that team? This would not be a one game fix but a systemic approach to providing a higher standard for the officials. If there is no scale or expectation, then we get what we get.
Love the game and can't say I haven't lost my $h!t over some calls before. I have a list of officials that do our local games I prefer not to see take the field. I respect what they do and have had great conversations with a few who feel the pressure to make the right calls. It's not a science, sometimes it's simply a judgment call, and there is no replay so they must hone their skill real time. Not asking for a pro but I do want consistency.
"The way you mess around with the man, it's a......shame-shame......the way your....huuuuuurrrrttt meee."
I am that official and called a solid game.
If you are so unfortunate to get the "Santa Claus" look alike white hat for your game, expect several targeting calls. Made four in the Giles-Cburg game last year, two against each team and none of the hits was anything close to targeting.
My point with someone from the VHSL being there creates ALOT of them, as one would have to be at every game, you can't say any game is more important as the head there. And with different sets of officials for each region and different groups together it would take a lot of data, not just one team complaining after one game. But you are right about seeing a pattern and that should be noticeable
You do know these guys get $50-60 a game no travel so if they are traveling 2 hours to a game plus game time they are basically making close to or under minimum wage.
To expect every call to be right is just crazy. If there is such "blatent" not calling it both ways there would be video evidence all over the place.
I would guesstimate that 99% or more of the officials could care less who wins and loses.
"call it both ways" you are basically calling that official a cheater
To expect every call to be right is just crazy. If there is such "blatent" not calling it both ways there would be video evidence all over the place.
I would guesstimate that 99% or more of the officials could care less who wins and loses.
"call it both ways" you are basically calling that official a cheater
I see your point as I was looking strictly at FB but the impact of even having random VHSL officials showing up along with the routine scoring of both teams admins should temper some of the ridiculousness we see from time to time. And let's be honest, a game between an 0-7 and 2-5 team maybe would not garner the attention of an official. There would still be a score just generated by the school admins. In my opinion they bear some responsibility since they work through the VHSL and agree to the officials before the games.
This is not just about FB though. Gunz if you follow SD softball and travel north a little. You know that there are certain places our area teams get consistently bad calls going against us. Same two officials every ball game. Why is that?
Frankly it's across all the sports so it's a problem that deserves attention from the administration that runs the organization. VHSL period.
And to the point of whether some games are more important, I think that some games are more important and should have the best "crew" possible. Example would be if both Riverheads and Draft go into week 11 undefeated. I would want the best crew at that game so there is no doubt who the better team that night is. And this happens all across the state.
I will say it again, I just want consistency.
This is not just about FB though. Gunz if you follow SD softball and travel north a little. You know that there are certain places our area teams get consistently bad calls going against us. Same two officials every ball game. Why is that?
Frankly it's across all the sports so it's a problem that deserves attention from the administration that runs the organization. VHSL period.
And to the point of whether some games are more important, I think that some games are more important and should have the best "crew" possible. Example would be if both Riverheads and Draft go into week 11 undefeated. I would want the best crew at that game so there is no doubt who the better team that night is. And this happens all across the state.
I will say it again, I just want consistency.
I have been around a lot of officials from this area all the years I coached, and of course there are some that I liked more than others, and I am sure there were some bad calls against us in those years, but in my opinion an official never cost us a game, that is what I have been trying to say when all of this started, and I can almost guarantee that we never had an official (while watching or coaching) that was "cheating" to make us lose. That is what gets to me the most on here is seeing people complain about the officials and saying they are part of the reason we lost. What that is saying is they were cheating. I can remember the worst call I have EVER seen was in 95 or 96 with SD playing at Harrisonburg for regional championship I believe. Terrible call, but he wasn't trying to cheat SD. It was one of those end of the game calls that may have effected the outcome, but still wasn't the reason SD lost.
