Jefferson Forest stadium improvements?

[DinwiddieProud]

There is an old story that goes something like this.

If a person says you have a tail like a dog, you just laugh. If a second person says you have a tail you smile and maybe laugh it off. After about the sixth person telling you you have a tail, you start reaching behind you trying to find your tail.

When 1000 people tell you that the facilities and accomadations at JF for that playoff game where horrible...,!

 

[shauntclair]

Wikki, I didn't know you were a prima donna? And I didn't think that you stating that the long lines and full porta-potties was whining? But what do I know? Shanty has already declared me disingenuous, (and probably a female.)

By the way Shaunty, I know the facilities were acceptable to you, because your ass was not there!

Watched It on the net and the iPad travels easily to my bathroom. Certainly crowded but you'll rarely see a semi that isn't. You just have to be prepared. Know where to park. NEVER eat at the concessions and make sure the tank is empty when you arrive. Of course, nature can't place a guarantee on step three but trying to get into a porta-potty line at halftime of any game is insanity. Frankly, you can go to any game at half time and expect to have to wait in line to use the facilities and, in general, they're pretty disgusting. Even at the professional level.

But here's the jist of it. I've been to quite a few places and environments around the world. Your levels of bad and how it's handled differ from mine. What's the matter DP, didn't they have enough potty liners for you? you do know some of us stand in there.

 

[shauntclair]

There is an old story that goes something like this.

If a person says you have a tail like a dog, you just laugh. If a second person says you have a tail you smile and maybe laugh it off. After about the sixth person telling you you have a tail, you start reaching behind you trying to find your tail.

When 1000 people tell you that the facilities and accomadations at JF for that playoff game where horrible...,!

let me know when you get the thousand. Don't worry about your tail. That's not the side you should be checking on.

But we're no longer in football territory here. My bad. I'm out.

 

[OCBoy]

they've installed a turf field at JF and added a damn fine weight room. None of that was cheap. Frankly, these were very expensive items. Eventually, stadium improvements will come. They've been getting tons of money from somewhere.

But as long as they don't play Salem in the semi's and at home again, this shouldn't be an issue again. The facilities are sufficient for any normal situation and they are better than most. I would have no problem with the game played there again. Only the primadonnas whined about it anyway.

It was an issue when Liberty went to JF

 

[mike salem]

they've installed a turf field at JF and added a damn fine weight room. None of that was cheap. Frankly, these were very expensive items. Eventually, stadium improvements will come. They've been getting tons of money from somewhere.

But as long as they don't play Salem in the semi's and at home again, this shouldn't be an issue again. The facilities are sufficient for any normal situation and they are better than most. I would have no problem with the game played there again. Only the primadonnas whined about it anyway.

Thanks for your "expert" opinion about facilities you've never visited. You seem to share a lot of your "expertise" on things you know nothing about. I know this forum is not a popularity contest, but I just wanted to congratulate you on being the most popular poster on the board. You have the most people ignoring your posts, Congratulations you've just added another member.

 

[shauntclair]

It was an issue when Liberty went to JF

Damn, I had some really good ones here but I'm already declared out. GL to EV this year.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Thanks for your "expert" opinion about facilities you've never visited. You seem to share a lot of your "expertise" on things you know nothing about. I know this forum is not a popularity contest, but I just wanted to congratulate you on being the most popular poster on the board. You have the most people ignoring your posts, Congratulations you've just added another member.

Add another.

 

[shauntclair]

Thanks for your "expert" opinion about facilities you've never visited. You seem to share a lot of your "expertise" on things you know nothing about. I know this forum is not a popularity contest, but I just wanted to congratulate you on being the most popular poster on the board. You have the most people ignoring your posts, Congratulations you've just added another member.

Thanks for letting me know that. I would have never known. it's not the type of thing that concerns me in the least. Probably why I have no Social Media presence at all.

Without even trying or caring, I have the biggest club on the board. Nice. This is a hobby. I don't even live in the State and I still can call games better than almost anyone. How is that possible? Cool shoes.

 

[wikki]

Watched It on the net and the iPad travels easily to my bathroom. Certainly crowded but you'll rarely see a semi that isn't. You just have to be prepared. Know where to park. NEVER eat at the concessions and make sure the tank is empty when you arrive. Of course, nature can't place a guarantee on step three but trying to get into a porta-potty line at halftime of any game is insanity. Frankly, you can go to any game at half time and expect to have to wait in line to use the facilities and, in general, they're pretty disgusting. Even at the professional level.

But here's the jist of it. I've been to quite a few places and environments around the world. Your levels of bad and how it's handled differ from mine. What's the matter DP, didn't they have enough potty liners for you? you do know some of us stand in there.

One thing I have never been called is a prima Donna. I can handle most facilities and have but that was the worst ever. You couldn't even get to the potties and anything else. The pathway to anything was blocked by people standing to see the game, people were in the trees to see the game. I didn't even try the concessions because they were running out of everything from what people were saying. Yes I made a stop before the game because I knew what the situation was going to be like. I have been to many games in my life but that one should have never been played there regardless. Even their own fans were complaining and I work with several of the parents and they said it was miserable

 

[shauntclair]

One thing I have never been called is a prima Donna. I can handle most facilities and have but that was the worst ever. You couldn't even get to the potties and anything else. The pathway to anything was blocked by people standing to see the game, people were in the trees to see the game. I didn't even try the concessions because they were running out of everything from what people were saying. Yes I made a stop before the game because I knew what the situation was going to be like. I have been to many games in my life but that one should have never been played there regardless. Even their own fans were complaining and I work with several of the parents and they said it was miserable

You know I'm not going to say anything when you're involved here darlin' and I've already bowed out. Much luv to ya' and GL to the Lancers in 2016. I'm watching them closely this year and expect good things.

 

[wikki]

You know I'm not going to say anything when you're involved here darlin' and I've already bowed out. Much luv to ya' and GL to the Lancers in 2016. I'm watching them closely this year and expect good things.

I am looking forward to a great season for the Lancers.

 

[jbci04]

So to me this makes it look like a bluff that it is even being done. My personal opinion is that it was only brought up in defense of JF hosting Salem last year. That in itself is probably the reason we started to hear about renovations and updates to the stadium. This could be a few years to 5 years out before this is even done.

The plans were announced months before the Salem game.

 

[mike salem]

The plans were announced months before the Salem game.

The plans were announced months before the Salem game.

I hope they get everything they want in place soon. They are a good program with good coaching in place. They don't get any better than Coach Christmas.

 

[mike salem]

One thing I have never been called is a prima Donna. I can handle most facilities and have but that was the worst ever. You couldn't even get to the potties and anything else. The pathway to anything was blocked by people standing to see the game, people were in the trees to see the game. I didn't even try the concessions because they were running out of everything from what people were saying. Yes I made a stop before the game because I knew what the situation was going to be like. I have been to many games in my life but that one should have never been played there regardless. Even their own fans were complaining and I work with several of the parents and they said it was miserable

You're one of the best and most respected posters on the board Wikki. I'm glad I got to meet you and look forward to seeing you again in August if everything works out as planned. Besides being an awesome fan you're a very considerate person as well. We need more Wikkis on this board and in this world and less trolls that just try to pee in everybody's Cheerios.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Amherst/Salem this year, it will be Salem's toughest regular season game and probably Amherst's as well.

Appomattox should still be a tough game- I think Smith has them pointed in the right direction much like Christmas at JF.

Brookville is usually a very exciting game, with Amherst making some epic comebacks against them a couple of times in the last 5 years or so.

Heritage should be improved as they were young last year. I'm sure Bradley will have them competing near the top of the district.

Jefferson Forest likely won't be as good but I still expect a playoff caliber team.

Rustburg always plays tough, but they just don't have the depth to consistently compete in the SD for 4Q against the best teams.

I hope for some big improvement out of Glass this year under Coach Woody. They need to get the guys on the field that you know are roaming the hallways.Hopefully Coach can inject some enthusiasm and pride back into the Hilltopper's program.

I think Liberty is kind of in the same boat as Rustburg, but Coach Watts usually finds a way to get the most out of his players.

Rockbridge has hit some hard times since Porter Abell, I don't expect much out of them till they show otherwise.

LCA has a lot to prove to themselves and the SD in general. After getting shellacked in their first ever VHSL playoff against a squad not normally known for being an upper echelon team, they'll have to get up and wipe the mud out of their eyes and show us if they have what it takes to play big boy football in arguably the toughest district in the state with the best coaches top to bottom. (LCA doesn't start their full SD slate till next year)

Good luck to Amherst this year, I hope from Game 2 on they are the Amherst of old.

 

[jbci04]

One thing I have never been called is a prima Donna. I can handle most facilities and have but that was the worst ever. You couldn't even get to the potties and anything else. The pathway to anything was blocked by people standing to see the game, people were in the trees to see the game. I didn't even try the concessions because they were running out of everything from what people were saying. Yes I made a stop before the game because I knew what the situation was going to be like. I have been to many games in my life but that one should have never been played there regardless. Even their own fans were complaining and I work with several of the parents and they said it was miserable

There is no doubt that a lot of work needed to be done at JF. It was basically unimproved for the last 20 years. Bedford County spoke of replacing the stands for years now. It always was the first thing removed from the budget.

Coach Christmas came to JF with a plan. The immediate plans were to help the players. Adding a top notch weight facility and giving the players a decent practice and game field and locker rooms were top on his list. The kids always come first. He achieved that goal in less than a year. Close to a million dollars in improvements.

Now he can work on other projects that benefit the community, like installation of stands, press box, facilities and snack bar. I'm sure when he came back to JF he really wasn't thinking "gee, I hope the Salem fans have a warm, comfy seat".

 

[hamspear]

How does a coach come in and all of a sudden there is a million dollars available for improvements? Did he donate the money himself? If not, why didn't they donate the money before Christmas came there? Coach shouldn't have anything to do with it in my opinion.

 

[jbci04]

How does a coach come in and all of a sudden there is a million dollars available for improvements? Did he donate the money himself? If not, why didn't they donate the money before Christmas came there? Coach shouldn't have anything to do with it in my opinion.

Because Coach Christmas knows how to get the support of the community behind him.

 

[bowlingref]

Rumor has that the big donor was the former NFL player that went to J/F contributed the $$$$$. Huge farm just below J/F on Perrowville Road. Everyone thinks Forest is a rich community. My opinion is there a bunch of broke people with high morgtages and lots of debt. Their egos are as big their mortgages.

 

[wikki]

Because Coach Christmas knows how to get the support of the community behind him.

I know several parents from JF and that is a true statement. Coach Chrisrmas has the community support behind him for sure. The players, fans and past players have the utmost respect from him. Someone told me that whatever he wants he gets basically.

 

[wikki]

Rumor has that the big donor was the former NFL player that went to J/F contributed the $$$$$. Huge farm just below J/F on Perrowville Road. Everyone thinks Forest is a rich community. My opinion is there a bunch of broke people with high morgtages and lots of debt. Their egos are as big their mortgages.

I heard that as well.and I believe it. I also heard that meeting their goal for fundraising this year is a struggle

 

[tommythecpa]

I guess I am. The facility was horrible and everyone was complaining. I have been to many fields for playoffs and that was the worst yet

Halifax in 91 has to be near the top of inadequate.

 

[wikki]

You're one of the best and most respected posters on the board Wikki. I'm glad I got to meet you and look forward to seeing you again in August if everything works out as planned. Besides being an awesome fan you're a very considerate person as well. We need more Wikkis on this board and in this world and less trolls that just try to pee in everybody's Cheerios.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Amherst/Salem this year, it will be Salem's toughest regular season game and probably Amherst's as well.

Appomattox should still be a tough game- I think Smith has them pointed in the right direction much like Christmas at JF.

Brookville is usually a very exciting game, with Amherst making some epic comebacks against them a couple of times in the last 5 years or so.

Heritage should be improved as they were young last year. I'm sure Bradley will have them competing near the top of the district.

Jefferson Forest likely won't be as good but I still expect a playoff caliber team.

Rustburg always plays tough, but they just don't have the depth to consistently compete in the SD for 4Q against the best teams.

I hope for some big improvement out of Glass this year under Coach Woody. They need to get the guys on the field that you know are roaming the hallways.Hopefully Coach can inject some enthusiasm and pride back into the Hilltopper's program.

I think Liberty is kind of in the same boat as Rustburg, but Coach Watts usually finds a way to get the most out of his players.

Rockbridge has hit some hard times since Porter Abell, I don't expect much out of them till they show otherwise.

LCA has a lot to prove to themselves and the SD in general. After getting shellacked in their first ever VHSL playoff against a squad not normally known for being an upper echelon team, they'll have to get up and wipe the mud out of their eyes and show us if they have what it takes to play big boy football in arguably the toughest district in the state with the best coaches top to bottom. (LCA doesn't start their full SD slate till next year)

Good luck to Amherst this year, I hope from Game 2 on they are the Amherst of old.

Thanks Mike Salem for those kind remarks. Shauntclair always defends me so I am okay with it. I will definitely stop to speak to you when I come to Salem. Don't expect a big crowd from Amherst as in the past though. The first game of the season at Salem just doesn't compare to the playoff games in years past. Fan base dropped off some over the past years as well. I am expecting it to improve this year. Still us diehards will always be there.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

There is no doubt that a lot of work needed to be done at JF. It was basically unimproved for the last 20 years. Bedford County spoke of replacing the stands for years now. It always was the first thing removed from the budget.

Coach Christmas came to JF with a plan. The immediate plans were to help the players. Adding a top notch weight facility and giving the players a decent practice and game field and locker rooms were top on his list. The kids always come first. He achieved that goal in less than a year. Close to a million dollars in improvements.

Now he can work on other projects that benefit the community, like installation of stands, press box, facilities and snack bar. I'm sure when he came back to JF he really wasn't thinking "gee, I hope the Salem fans have a warm, comfy seat".

We all know Christmas is a fine coach; all his efforts on behalf of his players are indeed commendable. He is held in high regard by many fans in the region, including yours truly. However, when it comes to JF's stadium as a venue for hosting a state semifinal - which was the original topic of this thread - all of Coach Christmas's plans and dreams are irrelevant.

The fact is, JF has a substandard facility that doesn't come anywhere near to meeting the VHSL's stated criteria for hosting a state semifinal, and thus should not have hosted one last December. That's not an insult, just the way it is. That's all water under the bridge now, but until JF makes the necessary improvements to meet the criteria, any future state semi that JF would be otherwise eligible to host should be moved to a nearby neutral site that could accommodate the anticipated crowd. Whether or not the VHSL would demand compliance with their own rules is anyone's guess.

Of course, it remains to be seen how long a period will elapse before JF finds itself in that position again, so the seating, restroom, and parking issues may all be academic for some time. Actually, they're probably not even academic; the VHSL already approved JF's stadium in its current condition, so that precedent has been set. It seems unlikely the VHSL would rule against their own precedent in the future, whether that's this December or twenty years from now. So, it's likely this whole question is moot, anyway.

Fortunately, the lack of seats - warm, comfy, or otherwise - had no effect on the outcome on the field. The primary effect was to deter probably thousands of fans, who otherwise would have attended. VHSL's loss, which makes their decision of last year even more puzzling.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I tread carefully here, lest I am mis-understood. I have no beef whatsoever with JF. But what the VHSL did in allowing JF to host that game set a terrible precedent.

Clearly, JF did not meet the seating capacity requirement that is clearly stated in the VHSL Handbook. Openly allowing a significant rule to be ignored, makes enforcement of all other rules just that much more difficult.

During a discussion on this topic last year, the argument was made by two very knowledgeable posters that the requirements were "just a guide, nor a rule". I re-read everything about "post season requirements", and the wording is definitive and clear. There is not a single suggestion that indicates a waiver can be allowed. Not even the usual back door that would allow the Excutive Director to permit an exception.

Again, my point is not that JF was allowed to host the game without meeting the rules. My concern is the fact that a clear and unambiguous regulation was ignored by the VHSL. This act alone gives argument to the precedent that any rule can now be ignored. You can't selectively enforce the rules.

If the membership wants this particular rule to be a guide, or otherwise allow some latitude, then reword the rule. Otherwise, enforce the rule.

 

[jbci04]

JF met the VHSL 3500 seating capacity minimum as well as exceeded the amount of bathroom facilities needed to host the game. That's why the game was allowed to be hosted there.

Nowhere in the rules does it dictate the type and kind of material the seats need to be made of. In JF's case, there was plenty of seating available to all fans in the form of the side of a hill all around the field. Some smarter fans brought chairs or cushions and blankets to sit on the side of the hills that surround the field.

Even though the existing bathroom facilities met the VHSL minimum specifications, JF provided additional porta potties exclusively for Salem fans. If someone complained that they were "overflowing" or blocked by Salem fans standing in front of them, sorry, that was only the fault of Salem fans.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

1. Permanent or portable bleacher seating to accommodate anticipated attendance (see
   

 

[DinwiddieProud]

In order to host a state tournament event (quarterfinal or single game), the proposed site must meet all of the criteria in Sections A and B.

http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload/facilities-requirements-for-championship-events1.pdf

 

[one man]

How does a coach come in and all of a sudden there is a million dollars available for improvements? Did he donate the money himself? If not, why didn't they donate the money before Christmas came there? Coach shouldn't have anything to do with it in my opinion.

Lot of wealth in the Forest area. Not to mention he had former NFL OL Jake Grove on his staff and a number of former JF players/coaches who came back to coach with him. I'm sure those guys brought connections. Amazing what can happen when a community believes in someone. Forest community trusted Christmas based on his prior work, add in all the former players/coaches mentioned above and parents had no problem donating 5-6 figures.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Please don't get me wrong jbc. I'm a fan of all teams earning the right to do so, hosting a home playoff game. And I'm in strong support of their being a clause that permits a variance in the application of the rules. (But this ability to provide a waiver needs to be spelled out. And whom has this authority).

My beef is with the precedent set. That a rule like this can be ignored by the VHSL because it's convenient. Where does it stop? What other rules can now be violated, and overlooked? Postalizing? Actions like this weaken the organization, (VHSL). That is what I do not like.

 

[jbci04]

Correct. Some of JF's bleachers are made of earth and grass.

In any case, VHSL has JF listed as 3500 seating capacity. It has been for years.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Correct. Some of JF's bleachers are made of earth and grass.

In any case, VHSL has JF listed as 3500 seating capacity. It has been for years.

In which case it's a moot point.

But honestly, how many seats are there really? I think the standard is 18" per fanny.

 

[jbci04]

Not sure how many aluminum and cement bleachers there are today. The plans for the new bleachers will be ~2700 on the home side.

As it is today, more than half of the JF fans normally will bring chairs and sit on the top of the "bowl". Even with the new bleachers, I'll bet they still will bring their own. We have fans setting their chairs up on their way to work in the morning on game day.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I bet it's like a lot of long established churches. You sit on someone else's pew and you get "the look"! I found out when I went to a Salem game that most of the fans have their regular seats, and don't take kindly to someone being in "their" seat.

At Dinwiddie, everyone typically sits in the same general area for every game. But the bleacher seats are not numbered or anything, so "close" is close enough.

I chuckled to myself thinking about JF. Someone unaware that there is an "informal", "formal" seating assignment stops by in the morning and sets their chairs up. They get to the game and find their chairs at the bottom of the hill. Must have been a gust of wind or something!

By the way, 18" per butt is REALLY pushing it these days. But, that's the standard allotment per fanny, I believe.

(Another silly thought just popped in my head. With credits to Rodney King, can't we all just play some football?)

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Mike, I bet you never thought your simple question about improvements at JF would generate 1700 plus views?

 

[OCBoy]

The plans were announced months before the Salem game.

Although they may have been announced they weren't broadcasted until they knew Salem was coming to town but I don't have it happening for 3-5years

 

[jbci04]

Although they may have been announced they weren't broadcasted until they knew Salem was coming to town but I don't have it happening for 3-5years

Wrong. Plans were displayed at home games before postseason play began.

3-5 years? LOL... You clearly don't know Coach Christmas. He'll have it domed by then.....

 

[mike salem]

Mike, I bet you never thought your simple question about improvements at JF would generate 1700 plus views?

I opened up a can of worms with an innocent question, didn't mean to rile anyone up. I just wanted to see what the finished product will look like and when it's planned to be started or finished. I realize private fundraising alone will slow down the process. Bedford Co has been consistent at least, they don't contribute to sports facilities upgrades at any of the 3 schools.

 

[ClarkeFan83]

In which case it's a moot point.

But honestly, how many seats are there really? I think the standard is 18" per fanny.

I think my ass is a little wider than that. BTW DP, "fanny" means something COMPLETELY different in Britain, so when I read your post, I laughed really hard while almost throwing up in my mouth a little.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Not being remotely British, I plead innocent. But I looked it up, and I see why you laughed so hard. Oops!!

And yeah, very few Americans can claim an 18" seat is adequate or comfortable!

 

[1MoreHokie]

JF met the VHSL 3500 seating capacity minimum as well as exceeded the amount of bathroom facilities needed to host the game. That's why the game was allowed to be hosted there.

Nowhere in the rules does it dictate the type and kind of material the seats need to be made of. In JF's case, there was plenty of seating available to all fans in the form of the side of a hill all around the field. Some smarter fans brought chairs or cushions and blankets to sit on the side of the hills that surround the field.

Even though the existing bathroom facilities met the VHSL minimum specifications, JF provided additional porta potties exclusively for Salem fans. If someone complained that they were "overflowing" or blocked by Salem fans standing in front of them, sorry, that was only the fault of Salem fans.

Congratulations on meeting the bare minimums for things and being proud of it.