Playoffs
- Thread starter oldfool
- Start date
Highest rated team hosts semifinal round. It’s not B @ A and D @ C as originally stated at the beginning of the season
Isn't it still B v. A and C v. D, except the higher seed hosts?
And isn't the final at a neutral site? I figure the VHSL will never go back to a team hosting a title game.
You have it right. The matchup is A versus B with higher seed hosting and C versus D with higher seed hosting. If equal "seed" then power points will determine host.
Ok I said this wrong it’s the higher power point team that hosts the semifinal game
http://www.vhsl.org/weekly-update-archive/
Click on the date for oct. I got this from another post. My understanding whoever has the higher rating out of A/B hosts and whoever has higher rating out of C/D hosts not B @ A and D @ C. So I did say it how it’s written in those minutes. Maybe someone else can interpret them different to me
Click on the date for oct. I got this from another post. My understanding whoever has the higher rating out of A/B hosts and whoever has higher rating out of C/D hosts not B @ A and D @ C. So I did say it how it’s written in those minutes. Maybe someone else can interpret them different to me
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Let me ask this cause I'm a bit slow. Last year, in the state semis, final four,.the East and West crossedover and played each other. Based on what I'm reading, it looks no team from the East (Region A.and B) will play a team from the West (Region C and D) until the state title game. Is that true?
That's how I understood it as well.
The only neutral site game is the finals, and it'll feature East winner (A v. B) losing to the West winner (C v. D)
The only neutral site game is the finals, and it'll feature East winner (A v. B) losing to the West winner (C v. D)
Just curious why you would say that? The power points decide your seed within your region then against whomever advances from the opposite region in the semi's. Like many others you may not agree with the timing of the change but it is at least based somewhat on earning your semi home field advantage.
In my opinion it would be a shame under the other system that was in place to have a predetermined site based on region have a 6-4 host a 10-0 regular season team. It's only practical that the highest rated( based on the standard we have) be the host.
I don't like that it was changed mid season either but I am gonna say it again, if you can't travel to beat the 3rd or 4th best team in your division, then you won't beat the team in the championship at the neutral field in Salem.
In my opinion it would be a shame under the other system that was in place to have a predetermined site based on region have a 6-4 host a 10-0 regular season team. It's only practical that the highest rated( based on the standard we have) be the host.
I don't like that it was changed mid season either but I am gonna say it again, if you can't travel to beat the 3rd or 4th best team in your division, then you won't beat the team in the championship at the neutral field in Salem.
The semi finals(fourth round) are based on power ratings only. Highest between A/B hosts, Hightest between C/D hosts. The first three rounds are seeded based on points and then they play the bracket. Below is the exact wording from the VHSL
Football State Semifinal Host Schools
As you know, for the 2017-18 school year,VHSLtournament formats match region A with region B and match region C with region D. In football, as region champions advance to state semifinal play, the higher rated team, based on power ratings, will host each semifinal game.
Please contact Shawn Knight (sknight@vhsl.org) in the League office should you have questions or concerns.
Football State Semifinal Host Schools
As you know, for the 2017-18 school year,VHSLtournament formats match region A with region B and match region C with region D. In football, as region champions advance to state semifinal play, the higher rated team, based on power ratings, will host each semifinal game.
Please contact Shawn Knight (sknight@vhsl.org) in the League office should you have questions or concerns.
Another question for folks that know much more about this than me. Ok, lets say we have the semifinals (4 teams are left) which are the winners of Regions A, B, C, D. I get it, the team with the highest power point rating between Regions A and B will host and the team with the highest power point rating between Regions C and D will host. My question is this.....how are the power points determined, meaning........
1. Are the power points finalized at the end of game 10 (the regular season) and whatever you finished with, then this is what you are calculated as if you make it to the semi's OR....................
2. Are the power points recalculated with each and every game played in the playoffs?
Why this matters in my opinion, take a team like Giles which I imagine will finish 3rdish in Region C, yet they are very tough. Let say Giles in Region C finishes the regular season with a power rating of 30 (just for argument) and a team like Union in Region D were to finish at a 33. If Giles were to beat some team in game 1, then Glenvar, and then beat Appo in it's own region, it stands to reason that Giles may be able to close the gap on a team like Union, IF......the powerpoints are recalculated with each and every game, but........if they are only calculated based on where you start in the playoffs (end of the regular season) then Giles is unable to close the gap. Added to this example, lets say there are crazy upsets in Region D and Union wins the region, but Graham, Ridgeview, Marion (2, 3, 4th ranked teams in that region) somehow lose in game 1 of the playoffs, leaving Union with a rather weak schedule in games 2 and 3 and hurting their power rating compared to what Giles pulled off in games 2 and 3 of the playoffs. See my point? Lots of if's and buts and scenarios and this is what makes it fun, and the above scenario could apply to any region or team, but my question is, are the power points FINAL at the end of game 10, or do they recalculate with each playoff game? Based on what I'm reading from the VHSL, that isn't clear, at least, not to me, but I'm a bit slow so that goes without saying. I assume they recalculate with each playoff game, but you know what they say about the word "ASSume." It can make an A%% of U and Me.
1. Are the power points finalized at the end of game 10 (the regular season) and whatever you finished with, then this is what you are calculated as if you make it to the semi's OR....................
2. Are the power points recalculated with each and every game played in the playoffs?
Why this matters in my opinion, take a team like Giles which I imagine will finish 3rdish in Region C, yet they are very tough. Let say Giles in Region C finishes the regular season with a power rating of 30 (just for argument) and a team like Union in Region D were to finish at a 33. If Giles were to beat some team in game 1, then Glenvar, and then beat Appo in it's own region, it stands to reason that Giles may be able to close the gap on a team like Union, IF......the powerpoints are recalculated with each and every game, but........if they are only calculated based on where you start in the playoffs (end of the regular season) then Giles is unable to close the gap. Added to this example, lets say there are crazy upsets in Region D and Union wins the region, but Graham, Ridgeview, Marion (2, 3, 4th ranked teams in that region) somehow lose in game 1 of the playoffs, leaving Union with a rather weak schedule in games 2 and 3 and hurting their power rating compared to what Giles pulled off in games 2 and 3 of the playoffs. See my point? Lots of if's and buts and scenarios and this is what makes it fun, and the above scenario could apply to any region or team, but my question is, are the power points FINAL at the end of game 10, or do they recalculate with each playoff game? Based on what I'm reading from the VHSL, that isn't clear, at least, not to me, but I'm a bit slow so that goes without saying. I assume they recalculate with each playoff game, but you know what they say about the word "ASSume." It can make an A%% of U and Me.
I hear what your saying BigWinners. I don't see that happening either, but....if we do the same format long enough (say 5-10 years) it will happen to some 2 or 3 seed sooner or later). I like the new system, but I like the idea of recalculating the points with each and every playoff game. Why? We are trusting the power points in games 1-10 to seed teams in each Region and we place heavy weight (rightfully so) to strength of schedule to formulate a power point ranking; therefore, why stop at game 10. Only my opinion, but strength of schedule continues from games 11 to 14. That's only my take on it. Either way, I like the format. I can tell you this......for this given year, it's advantageous to Poquoson, Goochland, and some other teams in the East. I don't think that's the case every year, but for this year, it's a big one. The West has some serious heavyweights in Appo, Union, Graham, Giles, Glenvar. Add to that Richlands, if they get in, is still not to be taken to lightly. If Richlands gets in and gets the 8th seed or the 7th seed and plays Graham or Union in game one, that's no pushover for a 1 seeded Union or 2 seeded Graham or whoever it is. I think Union and Richlands and Richlands and Graham are rival games anyway if I've read it right, so this adds another twist to the mix.
The strength of schedule in games 1-10 can be somewhat controlled by the teams and school athletic directors. You however have no control at all over who you play in playoffs and therefore I think should not have an influence on the power points
Based on past history, I can almost guarantee that the power points will NOT be re-calculated each week. I am sure the VHSL would take the position that they have far too much to do during playoff time to put anyone in charge of that assignment and they are probably right. The way I would look at it if I were you is that to win a state title, you are going to have to beat somebody good along the way, and probably more than one somebody, so I would not get hung up on points, ratings, etc. and just prepare the best you can for each team as it comes along.
It is not recalculated after each playoff game. Another way to look at it good or bad, is that once the playoffs start not every team on schedule would gain points for playoff teams, and the uneven regions where teams with bad records get it doesn't help that.
If recalculated, then after a Friday night win, a team wouldn't know who they were playing the next week. A lot of the time, points are very close between teams, and if these things happened, a team would change seeds because of something crazy.
Richlands-Graham is a big rivalry,whereas Union-Richlands is more of a great series between two good teams, no real bad blood. For a stretch, the total of points deciding the UHS-RHS games was like 10-12 points over 6-7 games.
I'm in the camp of not trying to recalculate points. The regular season decides playoff seeding and then each team knows their matchups and potential matchups. I think having to redo points after each round is too much.
But I do agree the West is an absolute brutal gauntlet. You have Appo, the defending juggernaut, Glenvar whos undefeated and very good, a good Giles team with a tricky offense, a well coached, well disciplined Union team with exceptional strength at the LOS and a big time player in Mitchell, a Graham team that's as fast as any team I've ever seen and can score points in bunches and a big time player in Cooke, a good 8-0 Marion team we will learn more about by end of season and a very well coached, solid Ridgeview team who has only lost @Union. Its a tough road for any West team, and the West winner winner be favorite to win state title.
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What you are describing is called "re-seeding" and the answer is no that does not happen. Your assigned a "seed" based on year end points, and that is what you are until you lose or win the title. Although I believe they may have done this in 5A and 6A when they had the 16 team thing going on.
I hear what you are saying and many or most folks probably see it that way. My thought is....because you have no control on who you play in the playoffs, that would even be more of a reason to recalculate power points. I don't think it would matter to much. Wins and losses weigh against another AA school weigh more than the strength of schedule, (at least it would for playoff teams) so I think it would be hard to close the gap anyway from the end of the regular season to game 4.
BigWinners, I don't think there is any question that the West is favored to win the title right now, but.........if Appo were to lose and you have a 10-0 regular season Goochland team or a 9-1 Poquoson team that beats Lafayette in regular season as a factor in being 9-1, then I'm not sold on the West automatically being the favorite. Lafayette is no joke, and I think they are at least as good, likely better than an AA team in Virginia other than Appo, and even in this matchup, it's a battle and no clear winner. But, no question, the West is favored, and if Appo were in the East, the East would be favored. Additionally, the West is definitely better from top to bottom and with the volume of teams that are outstanding, but the top 2 in the East can certainly play. That's only my thoughts.
It isn't hard to close the gap though. If you kept adding points, and there was a team with 23 average vs a team with 22.6 average, that is only 4 points total. The team with 23 average has a schedule with 5 teams in playoffs and 2 win, the 22.6 team has a schedule with 6 playoff teams and 4 win, they have already made up those points. And then you factor in that NEITHER knows their opponent until Monday and it becomes a disadvantage. Because while I and countless others know how to do the points, they aren't official, only VHSL is official and they don't come out until next week
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