Podcast: Episode 006 - The Tebow Bill

[VaPrepsRod]

EPISODE 006 - The Tebow Bill with Tom Garrett

Recorded January 29, 2015

In this podcast, Football Editor Rod Johnson talks with former VirginiaPreps.com editor Tom Garrett, aka "Central Region Tom", as the two review the "Tebow Bill" including taking a more in-depth look at a column written by Tom in February of 2014 -- https://virginiapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1607641.

The two discuss reasons for oppositon to the bill, how it may or may not affect Virginia high school sports and why the bill is even in the spotlight.

Duration (54:24) - Episode 006

This post was edited on 1/30 3:44 PM by VaPrepsRod

 

[VaPrepsRod]

For access to the Podcast Library Archives, click the link below

The Podcast Library

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I am ashamed to be from same state as Delegate Rob Bell.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Rod, I feel like you and Tom did a good job of covering all of the talking points on the topic. I think I'm about were you two are. I think it's a bad idea, but I believe the affect will be so minimal, that i don't really care. From other than a sports perspective, it probably makes sense. If a home school kid can benefit by coming to the local public school to participlpate in the Science Club or playing the French Horn in the band, the interaction would probably be of benefit to both the public school students and the home school kid.

I see some future push to let private school kids participate in public school activities, but is this enough of a valid argument to say no to the Tebow bill? Yeah, maybe. But would it be fair to deny home schooled kids this right because another question may be raised later?

I'm kind of tired of talking about it, so "The End".

 

[mike salem]

I feel the same way you do DP, I'm kind of tired of hearing about it I wish they would just put it to rest one way or the other. (no disrespect to Rod for the thread or podcast it is timely and newsworthy) I'm not sure how it and the LCA lawsuit will affect the VHSL but I don't think it will bring about its destruction as some have suggested. I think the impact of both would be minimal in the short term, it remains to be seen what the long term impact would be.

This post was edited on 1/31 1:19 AM by mike salem

 

[tommythecpa]

No Chance Of Becoming Law

Even if the Senate passes it, the Gov will veto. Decent chance Senate does not pass.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I don't know Tommy. I've been talking with a close friend that is close to the situation and he has about convinced me that it may pass and will not be vetoed. Rod and Tom's conversation on the podcast pretty much is the way he sized it up. They had a little more to say about the outcome of a veto, but all in all, he thinks it will become law this year. There is no political gain to vetoing the Bill.

My friend does preach "doom and gloom" if it does become law, AND the LCA lawsuit prevails. And down the road, he is probably correct. Say, maybe 15 years down the road. The biggest issue he foresees is schools pigeonholing atheletes with otherwise non-acceptable grades, into homeschooling. I personally think this type of kid would eventually screw up and self destruct anyway, but I'm sure this will become a pretty common behavior.

I think the Tebow bill is a bad idea, as it is written. If more serious thought could go into the writing of the rules and requirements before it is passed, it probably could be workable. But, it's so wide open to abuse as in the form it's being considered. I think it will be part of the eventual death knell for the VHSL, as my friend prophecies.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

Originally posted by mike salem:
I feel the same way you do DP, I'm kind of tired of hearing about it I wish they would just put it to rest one way or the other. (no disrespect to Rod for the thread or podcast it is timely and newsworthy) I'm not sure how it and the LCA lawsuit will affect the VHSL but I don't think it will bring about its destruction as some have suggested. I think the impact of both would be minimal in the short term, it remains to be seen what the long term impact would be.

This post was edited on 1/31 1:19 AM by mike salem[/I]

No disrespect taken.

One of the subscribers indicated that he thought it would make for an interesting podcast so I made it happen. As I said during the podcast, I'm not wildly interested in the subject but felt like Tom could deliver the goods on the subject which, in my opinion, he did.

As the podcasting idea takes more shape, I am sure that we will find many topics that interest everyone as well as finding some specialized discussions.

Hopefully, in time, the Podcast Library will become a big deal to fans across the state. I've got some great ideas for interesting discussion and hopefully, I can pull in some great guests.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

You did good, Rod. And no better person to discuss this with than Tom, as his article was very insightful.

I believe you would have done the forum faithful an injustice by not covering the topic again.

If you throw out the 10 to 20% of radicals that don't substantiate their opinions, the rest are pretty darn thoughtful.

Why is this important? Especially since we are all weary of the topic. Because it will have a tremendous affect on the very sport that brings us together in the first place. Even if it passes this year, the affects will be minimal for a period of time. But, eventually it will be as big of a hot button topic as transferring is.

 

[shauntclair]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

First time it's gotten out of committee. The House has already passed it. 46 other States do this successfully. Lot's of precedent to show the naysayers they are completely wrong. But it's Virginia. This may not pass this year but it will be reintroduced every year and will eventually become law, even if the CommonWealth does it kicking and screaming all the way. You guys just need to get used to it.

 

[shauntclair]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Sorry, I just don't see the collation between the Tebow Bill and the death Nell of the VHSL. Plus, LCA will win their suit. What the VHSL does need to do is accept the reality of the situation and start making plans on how to embrace the new landscape and make it work. IMO.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law


If all this stuff passes, the VHSL will become an "open recreational league", with unethical stuff happening all over the state. AAU coaches will be running basketball schools, and 7 on 7 Coaches will be running football.

In basketball, a smart rogue coach can pickup 5 players off the street, enroll them in homeschool, then pick a high school and make reservations for state tournament in Richmond.

 

[shauntclair]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

If 46 other States can do this successfully, I think the VHSL would be intelligent enough to evaluate those State's safeguard protocols and lessons learned in order to properly incorporate Home Schoolers and Private Schools into their current system.

That said, no system can be perfect and the VHSL already relies heavily on the self reporting of Schools. They have no "investigative" group, per se. They'll work it out as best they can in the end because IMO, they will eventually have no other choice in the matter.

I know how you feel on this matter HR6 and appreciate your input but I just can't see any scenario where Home Schoolers and Private Schools are not forcibly litigated into the VHSL bubble. As Shakespeare said, "Kill all the Lawyers".

 

[dringtuoti]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Who says they do it successfully? Did you know that Tebow actually took up an apartment as a secondary residence to become homeschooled and participate in football at the school of his choosing rather than the local public school he would/should have gone to?

The argument that 46 others have done it doesn't mean anything to me. Most of my friends drink alcohol - I choose not to. I believe 48 states have chosen to be a part of the common core curriculum - Virginia has not. State government's responsibility is to the needs and wishes of its own constituents and the majority of people in Virginia are against this.

I've talked to a law professor and he said that the legal argument depends on what homeschooler's are being deprived of and how they frame their argument. He seems to believe that because homeschooled children are not a "protected" class than legally the public schools and the VHSL do not have allow them to participate in their extra-curricular activities.

I do agree w/ Shaunty that it is probably only a matter of time, it will eventually happen. However, that doesn't mean that I will like it or stop voicing my opinion to my own local and state legislators.

 

[dringtuoti]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I also wanted to add that some states have more qualifications and requirements for homeschooling than others. Virginia's homeschool rules are incredibly weak with very little standards or qualifications for instructors or curriculum. If they improved in those areas than I would be willing to listen to some arguments but that's not the way it is in Virginia.

 

[shauntclair]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Commend you continuing to voice your opinion to the local legislators. Few recognize or utilize their Civic responsibilities.

But we both see this happening eventually and I see that as a realistic view.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law


It should be no way humanly possible for someone to play for a school without attending that school.


I know of a case where a college student was planning to play basketball for one school and take correspondence courses from another college. The NCAA said no.

 

[Bvlowery]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Not to be a total jerk, but it's ironic that a post citing need for more rules and standards on home schooling has several punctuation errors and a spelling error... Sorry, I'm quite sensitive to such calls for more rules on home school households when standardized test scores tend to show the greater benefit in home schooling. I was home schooled in three different states, and Virginia has been the best. My mom was free to teach as she saw fit without government intrusion. The standardized tests we took biannually showed that we were often two grades ahead of schedule. Meanwhile, in Connecticut, my parents were forced to meet with a school board official every year, and that official barely knew the guidelines and rules of the state. Instead, they tried to strong-arm and use scare tactics. I'll stick to VA.

 

[dringtuoti]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

In the state of VA you are supposed to meet with a school board official every year but that rarely happens.
I could also criticize your homeschool education for grammatical errors in your post (kind of ironic huh

- those who live in glass houses.... ).
Your conclusion about the benefit of homeschooling based on standardized test scores may be a little skewed. Standardized test scores for homeschoolers are genuinely higher than the average scores of public schools but that is based on the clients and demographics and not necessarily the quality of education. Many homeschoolers receive a top notch education but many do not and don't participate in some of the standardized testing you speak of. Imagine if public schools only tested the upper middle class students and only the ones who chose to take the test. Who is to say those same home schooled students who did take those tests wouldn't have done better or just as well with a public school education?

I have absolutely no problem with people choosing to homeschool their kids or with the level of education that they receive. There are many justifiable reasons people have for choosing to homeschool their children. However, if this law is passed then some might use it to homeschool their children for athletic purposes and I do not consider that justifiable.

My issue is with homeschool students wanting to participate for a public school in extra-curricular activities and not meeting the same attendance and academic requirements.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law


Plus Home Schoolers are available for practice/weight lifting all day. They not have to wait till school is out at 3 o'clock.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Hey Bvlowery, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you. We look forward to sharing stories and ideas with you. I hope you will take this small piece of advice in the respectful way it is meant. Be careful about criticizing a fellow poster. Disagree, for sure. Take exception to an opinion, absolutely. But to directly or indirectly criticize someone personally is a real fast way to get ignored. Especially when it is an veteran and respected contributor. Again, welcome aboard.

DP

 

[Bvlowery]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I proof read my post before I posted, and I just read it again. Find my errors haha.

Regardless, as my point wasn't actually intended to be rude, I would ask what type of data you have stating that many home schooled students do not take standardized testing. Honestly, literally every family I've met does some type of standardized testing. Also, just because they're home schooled does not mean they are upper class. In home schooling, lessons have to be individualized for each student. My learning ability is not the same as my brother's in some areas. The same can be said for him concerning his learning ability. It's not so much about the money as it is the culture the parents set and the small class numbers. Heck, I'm a teacher right now, and I can honestly say I cannot provide the individual time that my mom could provide for me. It's just a numbers and time game.

 

[Bvlowery]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I don't normally criticize posters themselves. To me, that's not how one debates or argues. I just found it ironic when criticizing the education of others.

 

[cutnjump]

Should never say never....


Hard to practice by yourself particularly if the rest of the team is in class. Also, lots of high schools have weightlifting in the class schedules already so that isn't really part of the argument either. There is a lot of misinformation and misdirection being thrown out on both sides of this argument. People say it has been successfully implemented in 46 states already but, is that really true? Has anybody seen a list of all of these states? More importantly, has anybody actually evaluated what and how it was implemented compared to what, if anything, actually existed prior to implementation? It may eventually happen but, in order for it to solve more problems than it creates somebody better figure out what exactly constitutes a fair, not necessarily level, playing field between those students in a full public school environment and those students coming from a private or home schooled environment. I guarantee you there will be people ready and waiting to exploit for their own personal gain the loopholes in a hastily crafted solution put out to satisfy the political correctness whims of a few.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law


Word of advice. When characterizing your posting style you probably want to make sure you have a substantial body of posts because with a 6 post history it is pretty easy to see whether your perception is the actual reality.

 

[Bvlowery]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I have a limited posting history because I don't normally post. I had another name, but I lost the info. I'm a coach, so I normally just watch what everyone else says. I've never directly criticized anyone before on this site.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Your last sentence is a little at odds with at least a couple of the first 6 posts under your new username although one was for HR6 and at least understandable. ;-) Just a suggestion, no big deal, take it or leave it as you wish.

The real issue is the public/private/home school debate and there needs to be significantly more actual information than the current PR soundbites from both sides before modifying a generally effective system that has been in place for decades.

 

[Bvlowery]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

I meant I hadn't criticized anyone before that original post, but I can see how what I said didn't sound like that.

 

[dringtuoti]

Re: No Chance Of Becoming Law

Just to give you an example - you changed tenses in your last sentence of your original post. The accepted written form of the word is "homeschool" and sometimes "home-school" not an open compound.

I never criticized homeschooling as an appropriate or adequate form of education. I have criticized the lack of standards or oversight in the state of VA which allows anyone to be homeschooled for any reason and without adequately putting in measures to ensure that these children are receiving an education.

The data is out there if you would care to research it - I have. There are multiple databases that breakdown the demographic data. The majority (majority not all) of homeschooled students come from two-parent homes, white, and middle to upper-middle class families.

Please go back and reread my post because you are attributing opinions to my post that are not mine nor factually accurate. Again my issue isn't with the education level of homeschooled students, it never has been. Kudos to your mom and others that homeschool their children and give their children the education they need.

 

[bulldog1150]

Question....

If the home schooling bills passed, how will enrollment be based. Do you have to include all homeschoolers in your possible enrollment or only those who participate. I am personally against it, but if it passes at any point, there are a lot of questions and loose ends that need to be addressed.