From what I read a defenseless player now includes a player "in the act of or just after throwing a pass". So does this mean that once the QB starts his throwing motion he cannot be hit or just can't be hit above the shoulders? And what if it is a fake pass? What keeps the QB from running up to the line, faking a pass and then taking off?
QB as defenseless player
- Thread starter spartan2005
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This language in the rules book just further protects the passer by establishing them as a defenseless player. Passers were already protected by the roughing the passer foul. As a defenseless player, he can not be contacted by an opponent where the contact "is deemed unnecessary or excessive and which incites roughness." It also mentions specifically that illegal helmet-to-helmet contact against a defenseless player is grounds for a flagrant foul and a disqualification. Basically, the margin for error with illegally contacting a defenseless player shrinks dramatically.
To be completely honest, it doesn't change all that much. Passers were already protected, and helmet-to-helmet contact against a passer was already grounds for a flagrant foul. The committee was asked to provide a few examples of who are defenseless players because a list didn't exist in the book until this year. The passer was just one of those examples added in.
To answer your specific questions, defenseless players are allowed to be contacted, but the opponent is responsible for contacting these players legally and must not be deemed excessive or unnecessary. A passer can still be tackled, it just has to be done legally, i.e. not hit with the helmet, not hit above the shoulders, etc.. A fake pass is not "in the act of throwing" because there has to be an attempted pass to be in the act of throwing. A fake is not an attempt. Nothing is preventing a QB from faking the pass and taking off, but they are not considered defenseless or a passer by rule, meaning they are not protected.
To be completely honest, it doesn't change all that much. Passers were already protected, and helmet-to-helmet contact against a passer was already grounds for a flagrant foul. The committee was asked to provide a few examples of who are defenseless players because a list didn't exist in the book until this year. The passer was just one of those examples added in.
To answer your specific questions, defenseless players are allowed to be contacted, but the opponent is responsible for contacting these players legally and must not be deemed excessive or unnecessary. A passer can still be tackled, it just has to be done legally, i.e. not hit with the helmet, not hit above the shoulders, etc.. A fake pass is not "in the act of throwing" because there has to be an attempted pass to be in the act of throwing. A fake is not an attempt. Nothing is preventing a QB from faking the pass and taking off, but they are not considered defenseless or a passer by rule, meaning they are not protected.
I asked because at a Jamboree in WV last week a defensive player was called for hitting the QB immediately after the ball was released. The explanation to the coaches was that once the ball leaves the passer's hand he can't be hit. They said it wasn't a late hit so as to be roughing the passer but a violation of the new defenseless player rule and that anytime the passer is hit after the ball leaves his hand, a flag is forthcoming. Doesn't sound like that fits with what you guys are saying but maybe WV has different rules.
As always, thanks for the explanations.
As always, thanks for the explanations.
WV and VA both use the same NFHS rules. 9-4-4 covers roughing the passer and it says "no defensive player shall commit any illegal personal contact foul listed in 9-4-3 against the passer." Hits on defenseless players is covered in 9-4-3, so an "excessive or unnecessary" hit on a passer is still the same roughing the passer penalty.
A passer is still able to be hit after they release the ball if it is not deemed "excessive or unnecessary" by the official. A legal hit immediately after the ball is released is not an "automatic flag" even with the expansion of the defenseless player rule because this type of hit is neither excessive or unnecessary. It's a rightful attempt to tackle the player with the ball.
Like I've said above, the only thing that matters with hits on any defenseless player is whether or not the official deemed the contact to be "unnecessary or excessive and which incites roughness."
This addition actually does the opposite. It expands and clarifies what exactly a defenseless player is. If anything, the defenseless player definition was somewhat "vague" before this addition. I, as well as many other officials, are in favor of it. With any new rule, there's going to be a learning curve even amongst officials. That's what happened in WV, not the effects of a bad rule.
The only signal that signifies a flagrant foul is the disqualification signal.
Some personal fouls have their own signal (i.e. facemask, horsecollar) and some don't (i.e. blindside block, hurdling). I wish they all had one to make it clear what was called, but the signals for those things would probably look ridiculous.
Have you ever seen high school officials use a mic to either communicate to the press booth, or to announce the call over the PA system?
I've heard from an NFHS rep that next year, blindside block will have its own signal (S48, 2 fists put together in front of the body). You can see it on YouTube. It's the same signal Hawaii and other experimental states used during the experimental period of blindside blocks. A few states are already using it this year (All the former experimental states, as well as North Carolina). The reason for waiting until next year is because 2018 is a publishing year for the NFHS game officials manual, which is only put out every other year.
A few states are allowing this, and every year more states are joining them. VHSL may not be far behind in years to come. Obviously it will depend on the availability of PA systems at some schools and whether the mics are compatible with the old technology that is present at many HS stadiums.
This is good to know. We are in the beginning stages of replacing our PA system. This is a feature that we need to be sure to incorporate. Thank you.
I know of schools that use a mic on the referee, but none where I work. I also know a couple of referees in other places who have purchased their own mic that somehow patches to the PA announcer who can then feed it over the speakers when needed.
I would like to be able to offer an explanation to some rulings but I know several referees who would be nervous to get on a mic in front of a crowd.
I would like to be able to offer an explanation to some rulings but I know several referees who would be nervous to get on a mic in front of a crowd.
Honestly, just talking to someone in the press booth and providing an explanation that can be shared with the fans would be great. This way it would avoid making any officials uncomfortable, but help quiet the bleacher experts. (Nah, wouldn't shut them up)!
https://virginiapreps.forums.rivals.com/threads/deep-run-v-atlee.51168/#post-260515
That link shows video of a "roughing the passer" penalty called last week. Is this related to the new defenseless player rules? This is kinda what I was worried about, but maybe this is just an unrelated bad call.
That link shows video of a "roughing the passer" penalty called last week. Is this related to the new defenseless player rules? This is kinda what I was worried about, but maybe this is just an unrelated bad call.
9-4-3g in combination with 9-4-4 already protected the passer from unnecessary or excessive contact. Adding the passer as a defenseless player was merely cosmetic. It just tells people that the passer is in fact a defenseless player. In regards to fouls, penalties, and enforcements, this addition changed nothing. Contact on passers will be judged the same this year as it has been previously.
The same can not be said for other types of players listed as defenseless under the new rule, as previously they may not have been protected and this year they are.
The same can not be said for other types of players listed as defenseless under the new rule, as previously they may not have been protected and this year they are.
In your judgment, it sounds that way. For the R on that game, he felt differently by his flag.
