Question for C'burg fans: Why move to the 3RD?

[SpartanOfYore]

This is for anyone from Christiansburg who might be in the know.

C'burg is currently petitioning the VHSL to move from the River Ridge District to the Three Rivers District, beginning in the fall of 2017. C'burg's numbers will still have them classified in 3A; for those unfamiliar, the Three Rivers is comprised of all 2A and 1A schools. Carroll County (4A) will be moving to the 3RD next year, but that change is as much - or more - about Carroll Co. trying to be competitive in most sports (especially football) as it is about travel distance.

My question in regards to C'burg wanting to make this move is - why?? As an outsider, this doesn't make any sense to me at all. This seems counterintuitive, but C'burg's travel distance would actually be greater in the Three Rivers, with Carroll and James River coming aboard, than it would be in the RRD. I discussed this on the 4A board a few weeks ago, so I can provide the numbers if necessary.

It also seems to me that the Blue Demons' teams in most sports would be facing significantly inferior competition to what they would encounter in the RRD, which remains one of the strongest traditional AA districts across the spectrum of all girls and boys sports (despite the recent well-discussed football struggles). C'burg's athletics program, unlike Carroll County's, is pretty solid across the board, so the drop-off in the level of competition not only seems unnecessary - it also seems like it could hamper the Blue Demons come playoff time.

I'm not looking to criticize or argue. I'm just trying to understand something that really has me puzzled. Thanks to any who can provide insight.

 

[mike salem]

This is for anyone from Christiansburg who might be in the know.

C'burg is currently petitioning the VHSL to move from the River Ridge District to the Three Rivers District, beginning in the fall of 2017. C'burg's numbers will still have them classified in 3A; for those unfamiliar, the Three Rivers is comprised of all 2A and 1A schools. Carroll County (4A) will be moving to the 3RD next year, but that change is as much - or more - about Carroll Co. trying to be competitive in most sports (especially football) as it is about travel distance.

My question in regards to C'burg wanting to make this move is - why?? As an outsider, this doesn't make any sense to me at all. This seems counterintuitive, but C'burg's travel distance would actually be greater in the Three Rivers, with Carroll and James River coming aboard, than it would be in the RRD. I discussed this on the 4A board a few weeks ago, so I can provide the numbers if necessary.

It also seems to me that the Blue Demons' teams in most sports would be facing significantly inferior competition to what they would encounter in the RRD, which remains one of the strongest traditional AA districts across the spectrum of all girls and boys sports (despite the recent well-discussed football struggles). C'burg's athletics program, unlike Carroll County's, is pretty solid across the board, so the drop-off in the level of competition not only seems unnecessary - it also seems like it could hamper the Blue Demons come playoff time.

I'm not looking to criticize or argue. I'm just trying to understand something that really has me puzzled. Thanks to any who can provide insight.

You make good points Spartan. My question is who will Salem replace Christiansburg with in the OOD? We know Dinwiddie takes Byrd's week, Franklin Co seems a done deal to replace Carroll on the schedule, I can't remember if we've discussed but I'd be curious to know that 3rd OOD change to the schedule. It's late so I'm sorry if we've already discussed.

I went to practice today and I feel like I was out there with them. The heat and humidity really took it out of me even with ample fluid intake and a drenching downpour that cooled things off. I think I'm going to take it easy tomorrow and through the weekend to recover, I'll be alright. I don't envy those boys in this heat and humidity for 2-adays. I know they're young and it doesn't affect them like it does me, but I'll be glad when they're practicing in the fall and playing games at night. They look real good for Day 1 of practice. Seeing Ramsey burst through the LOS, Beckley passing with pin point precision to a plethora of receivers, it was worth the misery.

 

[shauntclair]

You make good points Spartan. My question is who will Salem replace Christiansburg with in the OOD? We know Dinwiddie takes Byrd's week, Franklin Co seems a done deal to replace Carroll on the schedule, I can't remember if we've discussed but I'd be curious to know that 3rd OOD change to the schedule. It's late so I'm sorry if we've already discussed.

I went to practice today and I feel like I was out there with them. The heat and humidity really took it out of me even with ample fluid intake and a drenching downpour that cooled things off. I think I'm going to take it easy tomorrow and through the weekend to recover, I'll be alright. I don't envy those boys in this heat and humidity for 2-adays. I know they're young and it doesn't affect them like it does me, but I'll be glad when they're practicing in the fall and playing games at night. They look real good for Day 1 of practice. Seeing Ramsey burst through the LOS, Beckley passing with pin point precision to a plethora of receivers, it was worth the misery.

That was a day 1 practice? Haven't seen that before.

Well, you got the rings, so who am I to question. GL on the season and be well. We all know where your heart is but the brain needs to accept where the body is now. None of us want to lose you.

 

[mike salem]

No pads or hitting just running through mock plays for a few minutes at the end of practice. Some of the backs and receivers were basically full speed though, nothing crazy. Just exciting to see the potential of the "skill guys" on my part.

Part of dealing with MS is learning the line and I occasionally step over the line. I'll be tip top in a couple of days. I plan on attending the evening sessions next week when I go to practice, that wasn't an option today. Thanks for the concern, but I'm not that fragile yet. My health is actually pretty good overall besides the MS and a couple of secondary issues related to the disease. If I felt in danger I would have left immediately. I'll just be a little more tired the next day or two because of the heat, not much beyond what a healthy person would feel like after being out for a couple of hours in the direct sun. Trust me I won't risk missing scrimmages or games because I'm diehard for practice. It was day 1 I was excited to see anything resembling football. I'll rest the next day or two and I'll be ready to go again. No worries.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Any of the Blue Demon faithful out there? I recall there used to be a couple who were regular posters for a while.

 

[mike salem]

Any of the Blue Demon faithful out there? I recall there used to be a couple who were regular posters for a while.

It's been a bit sparse since the good run of players they had in '09-'11. They had several D1-D2 players on those squads and beat Salem 3 in a row. Unfortunately, they fell off along with all of the RRD teams for the most part since then, Salem has a 28 game winning streak in the RRD that dates back to '11.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

You make good points Spartan. My question is who will Salem replace Christiansburg with in the OOD? We know Dinwiddie takes Byrd's week, Franklin Co seems a done deal to replace Carroll on the schedule, I can't remember if we've discussed but I'd be curious to know that 3rd OOD change to the schedule. It's late so I'm sorry if we've already discussed.

I went to practice today and I feel like I was out there with them. The heat and humidity really took it out of me even with ample fluid intake and a drenching downpour that cooled things off. I think I'm going to take it easy tomorrow and through the weekend to recover, I'll be alright. I don't envy those boys in this heat and humidity for 2-adays. I know they're young and it doesn't affect them like it does me, but I'll be glad when they're practicing in the fall and playing games at night. They look real good for Day 1 of practice. Seeing Ramsey burst through the LOS, Beckley passing with pin point precision to a plethora of receivers, it was worth the misery.

Well, as I said in our other discussion of this subject a few weeks back, if the VHSL just does a little homework, they won't approve a Christiansburg move to the Three Rivers. If C'burg's petition is based solely on the premise that they would have less travel, that is. Because - and sorry for repeating myself - moving to the 3RD would result in more travel for the Blue Demons' teams. That's why I'm curious to know what C'burg's reasons really are.

If the Blue Demons do jump ship, it's anyone's guess as to what school would fill that slot on Salem's schedule. Any of the usual suspects we've already discussed could ultimately be the one, I imagine. Since Salem's picked up Dinwiddie, who's three hours away, I would think there would be very little chance it would be another far-flung school, much as we'd all like to see an exotic NOVA or Tidewater opponent. Definitely someplace within an hour's drive would be my guess.

I'm slightly disappointed Salem's dropping Byrd. I had hoped Salem's people would have waited until Highfill retired at Byrd to make that move, out of deference to an honored, longtime adversary who also happens to be an old Andrew Lewis guy. The game with Byrd is usually a pretty good gate for whichever team hosts, and though Salem owns a big edge in the series, Byrd (as we all recall) has pulled several memorable upsets. Frankly, that game this year concerns me. Whenever Byrd starts back on an upward trend, they usually manage to give the Spartans all they want, if not more. Just one of those weird things in sports.

And I know I'm repeating myself again, but the addition of Franklin County does nothing to pique my curiosity or interest. Hopefully, Edwards gets the Eagles' ship turned around real quick. Salem doesn't need to trade one one-win albatross for another.

 

[mike salem]

Well, as I said in our other discussion of this subject a few weeks back, if the VHSL just does a little homework, they won't approve a Christiansburg move to the Three Rivers. If C'burg's petition is based solely on the premise that they would have less travel, that is. Because - and sorry for repeating myself - moving to the 3RD would result in more travel for the Blue Demons' teams. That's why I'm curious to know what C'burg's reasons really are.

If the Blue Demons do jump ship, it's anyone's guess as to what school would fill that slot on Salem's schedule. Any of the usual suspects we've already discussed could ultimately be the one, I imagine. Since Salem's picked up Dinwiddie, who's three hours away, I would think there would be very little chance it would be another far-flung school, much as we'd all like to see an exotic NOVA or Tidewater opponent. Definitely someplace within an hour's drive would be my guess.

I'm slightly disappointed Salem's dropping Byrd. I had hoped Salem's people would have waited until Highfill retired at Byrd to make that move, out of deference to an honored, longtime adversary who also happens to be an old Andrew Lewis guy. The game with Byrd is usually a pretty good gate for whichever team hosts, and though Salem owns a big edge in the series, Byrd (as we all recall) has pulled several memorable upsets. Frankly, that game this year concerns me. Whenever Byrd starts back on an upward trend, they usually manage to give the Spartans all they want, if not more. Just one of those weird things in sports.

And I know I'm repeating myself again, but the addition of Franklin County does nothing to pique my curiosity or interest. Hopefully, Edwards gets the Eagles' ship turned around real quick. Salem doesn't need to trade one one-win albatross for another.

My first guess would be William Fleming IF the Christiansburg deal goes through. That would be an away game I could potentially attend. I hope they add a Seminole team (Brookville and JF offer good challenges and both travel pretty well) or maybe Magna Vista. That would be well attended by both sides. MV and Salem travel as well as anyone.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

My first guess would be William Fleming IF the Christiansburg deal goes through. That would be an away game I could potentially attend. I hope they add a Seminole team (Brookville and JF offer good challenges and both travel pretty well) or maybe Magna Vista. That would be well attended by both sides. MV and Salem travel as well as anyone.

Fleming could be a good addition. It's nearby, the two schools have some history between them, and the Colonel faithful turn out when their team is good. As I've said before, I'd like to see Salem play both Roanoke City schools every year. Fleming and Magna Vista would be my first two choices, barring any other schools from far away.

 

[MntnrMark]

To respond to the original question (and I enjoyed reading all of the replies that didn't, too) the reason I've heard for C-burg wanting to leave the RRD for the 3RD is gate receipts. C-burg thinks (as I have been told) they'll have bigger turnouts for 3RD contests than RRD contests. I would be concerned about football playoff preparedness if I were C-burg in the 3RD than in the RRD. I'm told it's a 50/50 chance the VHSL's Alignment Committee would approve the move.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

To respond to the original question (and I enjoyed reading all of the replies that didn't, too) the reason I've heard for C-burg wanting to leave the RRD for the 3RD is gate receipts. C-burg thinks (as I have been told) they'll have bigger turnouts for 3RD contests than RRD contests. I would be concerned about football playoff preparedness if I were C-burg in the 3RD than in the RRD. I'm told it's a 50/50 chance the VHSL's Alignment Committee would approve the move.

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated.

Maybe C'burg might get bigger home crowds in the 3RD than in the RRD; maybe not. I imagine it will primarily depend upon how each opponent is doing in any given year. It's hard to envision 2A and 1A schools bringing more people than 3A, 4A, and 5A schools that have to travel roughly the same distance would bring. Auburn is right down the road, but if the Eagles revert to their mean of a 5-5 (or worse) season, how many fans will a school with less than 400 students send to C'burg? Giles and Salem are givens as far as good fan followings in their respective districts, but what about everyone else? As I think we've all seen, if a team can't put a consistent winner on the field, the fans will stay home, regardless of school size or location.

And perhaps the larger consideration is - how many Blue Demon fans are even going to care about attending home games, if their team continues on its current trajectory? The past three years, C'burg's gone 7-3, 5-5, and 2-8 in the regular season. Without quarterback Xavier Kane, who transferred to Blue Ridge School, 2-8 might be a real accomplishment this year, unless there's a lot of help on the way from last year's JV.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but just in the way of an observation, I'd say if C'burg can't first get their own football program turned back around, they're going to have attendance problems that moving to a significantly less competitive district (considering all sports) won't fix.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

To respond to the original question (and I enjoyed reading all of the replies that didn't, too) the reason I've heard for C-burg wanting to leave the RRD for the 3RD is gate receipts. C-burg thinks (as I have been told) they'll have bigger turnouts for 3RD contests than RRD contests. I would be concerned about football playoff preparedness if I were C-burg in the 3RD than in the RRD. I'm told it's a 50/50 chance the VHSL's Alignment Committee would approve the move.

Mark, it is my understanding that both districts have to be unanimous in their approval for the switch, or else it is a moot idea. That's pretty much all that is required.

 

[MntnrMark]

Mark, it is my understanding that both districts have to be unanimous in their approval for the switch, or else it is a moot idea. That's pretty much all that is required.

I am not sure if it takes a unanimous vote from both districts or not. I'll try to find out the exact requirements. I also don't know if the district schools' individual votes are revealed or not. I imagine there would be a school or two in the RRD that would not want to see C-burg leave . . . at least not without a suitable replacement already being in place.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I am not sure if it takes a unanimous vote from both districts or not. I'll try to find out the exact requirements. I also don't know if the district schools' individual votes are revealed or not. I imagine there would be a school or two in the RRD that would not want to see C-burg leave . . . at least not without a suitable replacement already being in place.

I'm all but positive it takes a unanimous vote for a rubber stamp approval. If there was one lone dissenting vote, without viable substantiation, I believe that the VHSL membership would still approve the change. If there was significant opposition for legitimate reasons, it would not be approved.

Incidentally, I believe the way it works is that the alignment committee makes the proposals. Individual schools and District representatives have an opportunity to appeal. Appeals are heard and the Executive Committee votes. The proposal that is passed by the Executive Committee is then voted on by the full VHSL membership.
Don't take this as fact, but I think I'm close.

 

[MntnrMark]

I think your understanding is dead on. The one thing I have heard is that the Executive Committee is essentially a rubber stamp of what the Alignment Committee forwards on to the Executive Committee and that the Executive Committee rarely goes against the Alignment Committee's recommendations.

I think there could be some pushback by some RRD schools to C-burg leaving the district. Blacksburg might be concerned about the traditional season-ending football rivalry game, as I've heard that the 3RD requires the last five regular season games to be in-district games, but that's something I've only heard and not verified. I'm not even sure who to contact to get district-specific information. I suppose I'd need to talk to a district Athletic Director to get the exact details.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Yes sir. I would think any longer term AD would know what the District policy is. Kind of "tongue in cheek", but district policy sometimes seems to be fluid, wink wink.

I totally agree, I think the Alignment Committee wades through any questions. So that what they pass on has already been looked at pretty thoroughly. I suspect that most of the real work is done with phone calls and e-mails before a vote is taken.

I guess this is as good of a place as any to admit that I was way off the mark about something. I predicted that districts would begin to dissolve by now. With conferences going away, I think districts are here to say. I also think that I didn't appreciate how important districts are for the AD's when they work through the burdens of scheduling athletic events. If it was only about football, I think that I may have been more on the mark. But alas, there are other considerations.