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Discussion in 'Class 4A (Fall)' started by Gatorchomp1, Dec 2, 2017.
We know Louisa guards the run extremely well ( that is Salem strong point.
How on earth could you begin to argue Salem wasn't the underdog in 2015, it was a rematch of a game that ended 41-16 in LT's favor.
Salem's been the underdog 4 years in a row, mostly because people here grudgingly accept Salem's history because there is ZERO argument they aren't the greatest AA program ever but they still can't come to terms with Salem being good without having a bunch of FBS-level athletes on their teams which is usually why their personal teams are good.
Like I said, I DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE UNDERDOGS. I PICKED THEM TO WIN.
I will guarantee that taking out all of the Salem posters on here, Salem will be favored to win this game. It's what you get with the excellence they have year after year. Whether someone wants to admit it or not, they are at the very least the best AA program in state history
Your personal opinion doesn't speak for everyone though. You're out of your mind if you think Salem was favored to beat LT in 2015, a year after losing to them by 25 and being largely uncompetitive with them.
Also picking someone to win doesn't mean they're favorites.
Gunz, your out of your mind
I must be out of my mind then. The 1st Lake Taylor game seemed like an abboration to me. I didn't see it, but as good as your coaches are I figured they could make adjustments.
The exact same reason why you and I went back and forth earlier this year when you were down on your team and coaches. You guys have even said it, Salem doesn't have the D1 athletes like other schools, yet you routinely win. That shows it's more about the coaching and scheme. It's just like Riverheads here, they hardly ever have the most talent, but best coaching.
You said my opinion isn't everyone's. No it's not, and most on this board know a lot more about 4a teams than I do. But it seems like to me that the only ones who are saying Salem is/was the underdog is the Salem posters. Like I said, I would be VERY surprised that IF you had a poll that Salem fans couldn't vote on, Salem would be favored
Most people on here want Salem to loose, when you win as much as Salem does you have a target on your back gunz, trust me if we could not vote we would be the underdogs.
You're just making reaches based off nothing. You can search all of 2015, you'll never see me say one thing about the staff or players. Fact of the matter was that 2015 team had 7 sophomore starters and returned 3 of 22 starters. To suggest they'd reach the finals AND beat a team that stomped them by almost 4 TDs last year doesn't mean I don't somehow have faith in the staff or players, that's ignorant logic. The first LT game wasn't anything remotely close to an aberration and that's you again just using poor logic grounded in nothing. I saw Salem play 13 games that year, how many did you see? LT was decidedly better in every facet of the game. Just because Salem has history doesn't remove the ability for them to get the crap kicked out of them from time to time.
And Salem is behind in this poll and I would bet 80+% of the votes for them come from Salem fans. A non-Salem fan version of this poll would probably be 80/20 in favor of Louisa. If the only thing keeping this poll from tilting heavily in one side's favor is the other teams far larger number of posters then the rest should be highly obvious.
Your right Hokie.
Like I said I'm an earlier post... if this game were in vegas Louisa would be the favorite without question. Everyone will have their own opinions on who they believe will win, but that is completely different from who will be favored to win. Salem has been the underdog the past 4 years so the staff and players are used to it.
Obviously you didn't read what I said. I said the same reason we went back and forth this year. I certainly wouldn't remember if we did in 2015. You still will not admit that you were wrong earlier in the year, and that the COACHES AND PLAYERS improved and made adjustments. I know whether or not i said it, I had nothing to do with it.
And you obviously missed the point about aberration. I listened to the game in 14, and no question about it Lake Taylor was much better. But Salem or any great team doesn't have that happen often, and when they do they learn a lot from it. It is just like Blacksburg this year. THAT is a mark of a GREAT coach.
And you and broad are missing the point on underdog. Unless I am mistaken, the question isn't whether everyone WANTS Salem to win or not, and it's certainly no way to prove whether a poster is posting what they want to happen vs what they think will happen. I WANT Louisa to win for the reasons I have stated, I THINK Salem will win.
There will certainly be fans who will pick against a team no matter what. I am not talking about those fans. It is what it is, I dont care if you guys want to be UNDERDOGS, I believe you aren't, and I believe you have the best coaching staff in at the very least 4a, that right there makes you not underdogs. But I dont know why we are arguing about this, nobodies opinion for who is or not matters. You already showed you believe they were underdogs all year by your thoughts on them so I dont know why I am surprised.
Good luck to both GREAT teams, how for a good game with no injuries and may the best team win.
I think the odds are pretty even.
For the fifth time, I already said it. Just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's your fault, not mine.
2014 wasn't an aberration. LT would beat that Salem team at least 9 times out of 10 and very often just as bad. They were a noticeable level or more beyond everyone that year.
You are mistaken. The bitter Amherst fans or other random people who just hate Salem aren't tipping this poll. Cal-Preps projects the matchup as a one point Louisa win which is as close as you're going to get to some kind of Vegas-like non-biased observer.
If this was a college game, Vegas would favor Louisa.
Again, maybe you can't read it. I NEVER said Salem should have won in 2014. I said that it was an aberration, meaning out of the norm. I said I picked them the last 3 years 15, 16, 17 because they learned from the 1st LAKE TAYLOR ABERRATION.
But please mister wise fellow, explain to me why I should believe you over someone from Louisa who says THEY are an underdog. I get it, both teams are underdogs to use that to their advantage. What I have read in THIS thread is Salem people saying they are the underdog, while people from Louisa, Lafayette, and Stuarts Draft have said they are not. Of course the person from Louisa isn't going to say they will get beat, just like nobody from Salem will say they will get beat, but both persons from Lafayette and Stuarts Draft have BOTH said they want Louisa to win, yet think Salem will. Hmm....
because last year was last year. 4 of louisas main offense were playing injured last 6 games and none were playing both sides of the ball. im my eyes there is no comparison to last year and they ALL said the same thing about mon din and laf so im staying with my boys win or lose.
The reason Louisa is the favorite is simple. They're undefeated, Salem has two losses. Louisa has scored more points, given up fewer points, and the most direct comparison between the two is them handling Dinwiddie with their star player while Salem lost to Dinwiddie sans-Pope.
Yes, and that was when you and others were down on Salem. This isn't the same Salem team as early in the season fair to say? I'm not saying one or the other is going to win, but to saw based on things that happened early in the season when Salem wasn't clicking on all cylinders is a cop out.
I would venture to say that these 2 have had the most improvement over the season along with Lafayette. All 4 B teams would have been favored against Lafayette, yet they gave Louisa their biggest test.
And going by your words earlier in the season that Ramsey should get ball more, since he has the offense has been unstoppable, and the defense has certainly improved and gotten healthier
Listen if you are two time defending state champ you can’t be the underdog. You can say it but I don’t see one post from a non-Salem supporter stating that Louisa is favored. People may root or pick against you in the same way people root against Bama, the Patriots, or the Yankees but that just further proves the point. You’ve earned the title of Champion and the reputation to go with it. Don’t try to pretend your some Cinderella story.
I think this whole topic has been misconstrued. I don't think ANYONE is claiming that Salem is some amazing Cinderella story. What is being stated is that Salem is the underdog in this game and the facts back this up. This year isn't the last 2... different players, different opponent. When people say that "they are the 2 time defending state champs so they can't be the underdog" makes absolutely no sense. Every measurable statistic points to Salem being the underdog. The only reason anyone can give for them not being is "because the are 2 time defending state champs". Once again I'm not saying Salem will lose... I'm just saying if an unbiased person had money to put on the game the majority would fall on Louisa. Take past history out of the equation and look at each teams resume then decide which team should be considered the favorite.
I look at what Salem has done since early October and they look unstoppable. In the post season alone they have just run over some good football teams.
These teams didn’t have a Brandon Smith. Offers from everyone in the country including Alabama. Probably very difficult to run over a team like this. And Bell, he runs over people. Salem doesn’t usually have kids like that. So I too feel like we are once again the underdog . Gonna take another total team effort. Gonna be fun though.
While I agree with some of this, even though I dont think they are the underdog and I dont believe the money would be on Louisa, you CAN'T believe past doesn't matter. A LOT of your players have championship experience which means a ton, they are familiar with the field which matters, but the biggest past that matters is COACHING.
Like I said and others now, I think Salem fans are trying to create this underdog or edge but nobody outside of Salem is seeing it.
If past doesn't factor into things, how come New England is always favored to win? They had huge turnover on the team, and major injuries and are still the favorite.
Your post seems like a giant contradiction.
I think him saying we are once again the underdog is Salem. Then no contradiction
Correct Gunz. Seems each time we get this far, our opponent has several big time recruits. And we just don’t have those. It’s a lot of fun going up against them, just feels like we are always at least a slight underdog.
Well I think you can clearly see my view on that, but it does seem Salem fans are testy tonight. They are even questioning one of their own who doesn't think they are underdog (You when thought you werent). I dont know whether it means they are that worried, or just trying to dig heels in on this underdog thing??????
This thread is hilarious. Usually fans are all yelling, "We're better!" "No, we're better". This one has turned into, "No one should think we're going to win" "No, no one should think WE can win". Good stuff, guys!
I don't have a dog in this fight but I can tell you that in no way is Salem the underdog. Let's look at 2017, Louisa is undefeated,given up fewer points, scored more points. One soundly built football team. Now as for Salem. Ok sure there's 2 losses and at times people had serious doubts if they had any chance of returning this year. But low and behold they started firing on all cylinders. So what do we have folks? Louisa who while pretty much year in and out is a very good program versus, well I'll say it-The Program by which is the measuring stick. Salem has coaches with tons of big game experience, kids with that same experience and as we all know are the two time defending champs. So without offending any Louisa folks we can say there's the new kids on the block versus the seasoned veterans and current back to back state champs. Now how anyone thinks Salem is the underdog is beyond me.
I think most Salem fans are pretty reasonable when we get this far. Tons of respect for LT, Dinwiddie, and now Louisa. Gonna be a big task, but let’s go give it all we got and see what happens. I’m looking forward to seeing if we can get a few more rushing yards than Louisa’s last two opponents. That’s a very stingy defense.
Not testy at all.. just stating facts. If vegas had this game Louisa would be somewhere between a 1-3 point favorite. Salem will once again have to play a nearly flawless game to keep the trophy in title town. They've proven it can be done so here is hoping that the past repeats itself.
I think besides the one poster with multiple names, who Salem fans seem to not agree with either, that Salem posters are very respectful and knowledgeable. But it just seems like are trying to create this underdog role, and hey that is fine by me. But it seems as they are the only ones who believe that.
People bring up this poll (which I haven't even looked at results, but it can be 3 different things, Salem/Louisa fans saying they are the underdogs and believing it or not, jealous fans who will pick against Salem not matter what, or fans who really think Louisa will win.) Then people saying what they think a betting line would be, people saying nothing in the past matters, and using numbers both for and against each team. What I am seeing is people only using stats to benefit their side of the argument, such as losses, yardage, common opponents, etc.
That isn't a fact. A fact is something that can be proven with data, nobody here knows what the line in Vegas would be. You are forming a hypothesis
Salem definitely will. But Louisa has been playing this well without a starting LB who got hurt for the season against King George. Great depth at that spot.
Please don’t say bitter Amherst fans. Not bitter at all, just wouldn’t want the same team to win every year. Yes I’m pulling for Louisa for many reasons, one because they have never won and two for their coach. When you are at the top all the time, yes people will pull for the other team. Who do I think will win, Salem because they are peaking now and Coach Mags knows how to win. Also some of the posters for Salem put a sour taste in people’s mouth because of things posted year after year. The HISTORY, everyone knows now Salem’s history, give it a rest
Nah, I base my thoughts on observations, film watching, and a gut feeling. I have confidence in Salem, but Louisa looks like a formidable opponent that should be respected. Both teams will bring their A game. There is no favorite in my opinion.
Ok then I'll give you some data... http://www.calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2017/project_matchup2.pl
I opened it and it went to California??? But I am assuming that since you sent it, and I think Hokie said 1 point Louisa that it says Louisa is a favorite. My point was that you blatantly said all you use is facts, and then gave a hypothesis/opinion. That kind of goes with what I have been trying to say, you are trying to create this underdog role.
It is pretty obvious that EVERYONE other than Salem fans in THIS THREAD, and sure there hasn't been a lot of different posters, but they all have said they WANT Louisa to win but think Salem will. Exactly how is that an underdog?
Come on Wikki... can't say you aren't a bitter Amherst fan then back it up with a post that reeks of bitterness. Do we have some "bad" fans/posters that show up on this board from time to time... Sure. However, so do other teams. The difference is that Salem just has a larger, more passionate fan base than most schools and therefore there are more posts on here regarding Salem (rightly so). If opposing fans are tired of reading so many Salem related posts on this board they have three options.
1) Read them and continue to have a "sour taste"
2) Don't read them (I don't read 3/4 of the posts on this board)
3) Get more of your own teams fans to join vapreps so that more of the posts are related to your school.
There are biases in play here... take the bias out and look at it from the view of an knowledgable outsider and it's obvious who the underdog is. You are too close to the situation to see this clearly.