Shoe Removal

Discussion in 'ASK THE OFFICIALS - ALL SPORTS' started by bowlingref, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. bowlingref

    bowlingref VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    In the Ohio State-Michigan game, two Michigan defensive players untied and removed an Ohio State running backs shoe. An unsportsmanship penalty was called. Is there a rule in the NFHS book on this rather comical penalty?
     
  2. DinwiddieProud

    DinwiddieProud VaPreps All Region
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    LOL! I didn't watch but a little of that game, so I missed "Shoegate." But, how the heck did a OS player let that happen without kicking the crap out of somebody?

    I did see a penalty yesterday in an NFL game when a player removed his helmet in celebration. So what are the rules about helmet removal in HS ball?
     
  3. White hat

    White hat VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    I guess high school football is a lawless free-for-all because neither of these issues is addressed in the Rules Book.

    I don't think I would have flagged the show untying unless they tied the dude's shoes together. It was silly but I think I would have issued a verbal warning, known as a "talk to" in this business. What we don't know, however, is whether the players in question had already received a "talk-to." If one or both of them had aready pulled some annoying little nonsense and been told to quick that and play football, then the shoe issue could have been the step over the line.

    NCAA (and NFL, I guess) have rules that forbids taking off the helmet on the field. I don't know the specifics of the rules. I think if there's a time-out that players can take off their helmets to make adjustments or towel off.

    As long as a high school player does not take a helmet off to call attention to himself or slam it in anger, there's nothing specifically illegal about the helmet removal.
     
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  4. bowlingref

    bowlingref VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    When you leave the house to go officiate any sport, you never know kind of situation is going to present itself.
     
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  5. DinwiddieProud

    DinwiddieProud VaPreps All Region
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    And I'm sure that is part of the allure. It's like going fishing, you never know what you might catch.

    The fact that a "talk to" may have proceeded a flag is something that the fans are almost never aware of. Which leads to a fan misunderstanding sometimes why a seemingly insignificant violation was flagged.

    I know I asked this before, but I can't remember your answers. When time expires, when does control of the field leave the pervue of the officials and revert to the on duty administrator.

    I've always noticed that the officials leave the field in mass and promptly. Do you guys get much harrasment on the way to your locker room or vehicles? I've got to believe there is often a fan or two that want to tell you their opinion of how you officiated a game. Sadly, because of the crazies out there, I would think and hope that the home team would furnish a Deputy of Police Officer to escort you after a game.

    You guys catch a lot of grief, but it really is a unique niche..., what you do. There are very few comparisons, and precious few of you in the occupation. Feel proud that you are doing something that very, very few will ever get to do or enjoy. Having said that, do you remember the time you called holding against my team when it wasn't? And what about the phantom pass interference call that you called that cost us the game?

    LOL. Thank you gentlemen, you make it all possible.
     
  6. bowlingref

    bowlingref VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    I am not sure on when the officials duty ends in football, but in basketball the officials duty ends when all officials have left the confines of the gym. You hope you are not working a game with a guy that's running of political office and wants to hang around in the gym and solicit votes. If two of you leave the gym and one stays and an error is found, the other two officials would have to come back out and work an overtime.
     
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  7. White hat

    White hat VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    You ask a lot of good questions.

    When does control end? I guess when we leave the field, although I've never had to report any post-game shenanigans. I've stayed on the field a couple of times to make sure nothing started. I've also got out of there a few times when that seemed like the better course of action.

    There have been a few incidents with people after games, but nothing that amounted to anything. The usual insults and uninformed accusations. I don't worry about it because I know these people have never in their life had the guts to even try to officiate.

    Consider, last year I went to a state final where a crew from my association was calling the game. It was a great game and the crew did a really good job. They had it buttoned down, really controlled the game but kept it moving and kept it clean. I don't remember any controversy at all. The evaluations were highest marks. That said, as I was walking out of the stadium I was walking around some fans of the losing team -- elderly ladies, mostly, but some men and women who might not have their AARP cards yet. They were all talking about how to call the state to complain about the racist officiating. Who could they call to complain about how bad, how one-sided the officiating was. How was it fair that these prejudiced refs were on their game?

    If it's possible to sprain your eyeballs from rolling them so hard, then I probably did it.

    Regarding calls, I've had a few clunkers over the years. I've had calls I've reflected on and knew it wasn't a quality call. I've missed calls that I thought about a little later and wished I had called. That happens to all officials. One thing I NEVER do is act like I'm right when I know I'm not. Many years ago, working line judge, I saw a pass defensive pass interference that I was getting ready to flag when the ball went over the heads of the receiver and defender and a deep safety laid out and caught just above the grass. I was so struck by the amazing catch that I went to that spot and signaled that it was a catch and turnover. That's when I realized it shoulf have been a DPI and I had not flagged it. Whether or not it was too late at that point is up for debate, but at the time I thought it was too late. The head coach was livid. He asked about the DPI. Why hadnt I flagged it. What could I say? I just said "Coach, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong,"

    I also had a play when working line judge where I saw a receiver run back toward the defensive end. I just knew he was going to crack back (a block in the back) and I had my flag ready. When the receiver (#2) got there, he bascially stopped and set a pick. He barely touched the DE, but I was ready and I flagged.it. Being much younger at the time, I just went with it but it bothered me. As luck would have it, I ran into the head coach that week and I told him "When you looked at that film you saw me flag #2 for a block in the back. That was a terrible call and I want you to know that I realize that. I anticipated it and I was wrong. Should never have flagged it or let the penalty be enforced."

    Only once do I think that I made a call that might have cost a team a game, but I don't know if I did or not. And the two officials that had a better look than I did are both dead now so I can't ask them.

    Good questions. I'm always up for answering questions.
     
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  8. DinwiddieProud

    DinwiddieProud VaPreps All Region
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    Thank you two for always sharing with me. I try, whenever I can, to add some sensibility to some of the bleacher discussions that I find myself in. I certainly do not have even a working knowledge of the rules, but from what I've learned from you guys and others in the business, I can at least attempt to argue against the absurd.

    I laugh when you admit to an occasional mistake. I'm always quick to tell people that there has only been one nearly mistake free person that walked this earth, and they rewarded him by nailing His poor butt to a cross.
     
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  9. bowlingref

    bowlingref VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    If I miss a call,one thing that will settle a coach down a little bit is, I missed that last call. Then move on.
     

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