The district calendar says "canceled". Can anyone confirm this game will not be played or has it been rescheduled?
Smithfield/Bruton
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Not sure how you can just cancel a district game. Somebody should forfeit. Smithfield not accepting the forfeit is costing Dinwiddie 2 very valuable points. That game and the loss of the possible points from the Hopewell vs. Powhatan cancellation will cost Dinwiddie the third seed. If we can win in the first round a rematch with Louisa (@Louisa) is looming. Not a good matchup for the young Generals, but you never know.
I'm not sure what is happening, but you're right it is two very valuable points. The calendar just says "canceled" but that could just mean "not being played". I was wondering if anyone had an official word.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/highschool/dp-spt-bruton-football-schedule-20180823-story.html
Found this but not sure what Smithfield decided. Looks like Bruton didn't have enough kids. 3rd team I've heard about this year.
Bruton played half of their schedule. They (Bruton) refused to play teams above class 3. Somebody or both have to forfeit. It was a scheduled district game and it should count. Hopewell and Powhatan should be forced to play as well. Not sure why the did not play. Everybody else rescheduled later in the week (Saturday, Monday, or Tuesday). Thats smells awful fishy. Word I received is Powhatan did not want to play. Take the forfeit then. Its could cost Louisa as well. Points are points this time of year. Not crying we controlled our own destiny and lost. Cant blame anyone, but ourselves for this.
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Here's the irony on who it hurts/helps. It hurts the opponents of the winner. It actually helps the opponents of the loser (via tie-breaker).
The game is canceled and will not be played. Per the VHSL weekly ratings Jamestown and Grafton has accepted the win as a forfeit and it is noted on the VHSL spreadsheet as such. Lafayette has opted to call it no game as their right to do and go with a 9 game schedule. This helped them get the Region A #1 seed as Bruton would have been winless. I do NOT see the forfeit for Smithfield and will assume they also will go with no game and complete a 9 game schedule as this helps them also in their playoff seeding. It looks like now they are #7 and would fall to 8 if taken the forfeit. Therefore I believe Dinwiddie will not get the additional 2 points.
The option to take a win on a forfeit or a canceled game, therefore no game and a 9 game schedule is at the discretion of the opposing team, the 4 Div 4 teams Bruton canceled on. Jamestown and Grafton elected the forfeit win. Lafayette and Smithfield did not.
So what your saying is you can drop a scheduled opponent or decide not to accept a forfeit. Wow! maybe we need to just say we never played winless Denbigh or Meadowbrook then. lol This sounds shaky and illegal to me. Example: I am 9-0 (class 4) and my opponent is 9-0 (class 3) going into the last game. It is calling for rain. We say the heck with it and both teams agree to cancel. No need to risk it, we both stay unbeaten and get top seeds. What a precedent! Basically, you are saying two teams could actually collude to oust a team from the playoffs by not playing. That would be a kick in the rear. The other ironic thing is the rules say if a team does not play its district schedule it is not eligible for the playoffs. In this persons opinion Lafayette and Smithfield must take the forfeit or lose playoff eligibility.
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I don’t think that is what Lafayette is saying. Bruton went the VHSL at the start of the season and told them they were cancelling all 4A games. Opponents had an option to take the forfeit or call it a “no game” and play a 9 game season. That is very different from what you describe above.
Bruton canceled these games due to a lack of players a week before the season began not allowing anyone but Warhill to schedule an alternative. Thus Bruton’s games were canceled against their Group 4 opponents prior to season opening and were not officially scheduled at that time. No one “dropped” Bruton during the season or dropped a scheduled game. The VHSL understood the harm and liability that would ensue with 13-15 players playing the larger schools. This was not a planned occurrence and there was nothing deceptive about it. The rules state a canceled game can be treated by the opponent as s forfeit win or no game. Quite a different scenario as a Denbeigh.
I doubt Bruton will be playing any football games next year and maybe after that. Bruton playing only 5 games and losing all 5 hurt the 5 Group 3 teams they played in playoff rankings too. They should have just canceled the season and got permission from the Vhsl for the dozen player the option to join nearby York HS for football.
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Jeez, I am not saying Lafayette is doing anything wrong. I am saying they (Bruton) played football this year and chose not to play several teams. Those teams who they did not play should be required to take the forfeit. Example: Its gonna rain Friday night. Oops our field is wet. Lets cancel our game with Colonial heights. Guess what we go from a fourth seed to a 2nd or third seed. Its called ethics. We would never manipulate the situation to gain and unethical advantage. You may not accept it, but its bs. The district should make all teams take the forfeit or none. Again that is collusion.
May I offer my insight as a 3rd party observer?
You two are agreeing, there is nothing sinister happening in this particular case.
BN is simply pointing out its setting a precedent for something sneaky to happen. I happen to agree. It could absolutely happen and they could use this situation to justify their actions. VHSL should get out in front before it happens. Just my opinion.
You two are agreeing, there is nothing sinister happening in this particular case.
BN is simply pointing out its setting a precedent for something sneaky to happen. I happen to agree. It could absolutely happen and they could use this situation to justify their actions. VHSL should get out in front before it happens. Just my opinion.
All Vhsl has to do when a game is canceled is to review the circumstances to ensure it is a bonfide cancel and approve that status. If a game is canceled for weather were best efforts to reschedule game made or not? Did player participation require a cancellation (Less than 25 active players)? Once approved it should be up to the opponent to take a forfeit or say no game if a substitution cannot be made.
I did look at weekly ratings for districts for PV and MP and I saw only one forfeit win, Kettle Run. Accurate?
how about if they cant or they don't want to play its a loss and the season moves on. no less points no more points just done. this is why I don't like the points system to much figuring. win or a loss that easy.
You sir have hit it right on the head. If you schedule it you must play. I really get what the guys from the bay Rivers are saying, but I don't understand the Powhatan and Hopewell debacle. We all played on wet fields that weekend. Shame on those two teams. Heck, Hopewell was on a bye week. That hurts Louisa and Dinwiddie.
Lafayette, where does it state that a school or schools can claim a "no game?"
68-3-1 Postponed or Suspended/Interrupted Games-Postponed or suspended games must be rescheduled for the same evening or the afternoon of the next calendar date, except for Sundays and except for extenuating circumstances approved by the district chairman if both schools involved are within the same district. If it is not a district contest, the VHSL Executive Director will rule on the extenuating circumstances. Friday games would be re- scheduled for Saturday; Saturday for Monday; and Monday for Tuesday.
68-3-2 All make-up games must be concluded by Tuesday preceding the first regional play-off date. Games not concluded by that day will be counted as a loss for both teams. If two schools cannot agree on a make-up date, the VHSL Executive Director shall set the date. A school may choose to forfeit only if approved by the VHSL Executive Director.
68-3-1 Postponed or Suspended/Interrupted Games-Postponed or suspended games must be rescheduled for the same evening or the afternoon of the next calendar date, except for Sundays and except for extenuating circumstances approved by the district chairman if both schools involved are within the same district. If it is not a district contest, the VHSL Executive Director will rule on the extenuating circumstances. Friday games would be re- scheduled for Saturday; Saturday for Monday; and Monday for Tuesday.
68-3-2 All make-up games must be concluded by Tuesday preceding the first regional play-off date. Games not concluded by that day will be counted as a loss for both teams. If two schools cannot agree on a make-up date, the VHSL Executive Director shall set the date. A school may choose to forfeit only if approved by the VHSL Executive Director.
Not a suspended, interrupted or postponed game. Canceled and not officially scheduled as of first day of football season.
Ouch! If a district approves forfeits, guess what they all should be required to forfeit. Can't pick and choose based on how it effects the points.
I don’t see the problem with a legitimate cancellation letting the opponent who is affected not due to any if their action determine how to handle, forfeit win or no game.
The Hopewell/Powhatan does sound like a very different issue than down here. Up to Vhsl to sort out.
I hear you, but where is that rule? If it's the rule, it has to be in the by-laws, handbook, or somewhere. I'm not disputing you, I just want to see it in writing.
I just know from Lafayette’s HC that is how it works and the Vhsl weekly ratings has the asterisk forfeit win for Jamestown and Warhill and no game for us and Smithfield so Vhsl has made the determination.
@Lafayette if it benefitted you would it be ok? If you say yes then you have solved the riddle. Either you cancel or dont. Cant eait to see how it benefits the teams in your district.
Doesn’t benefit the 4 class 3 and one class 2 teams that played Bruton. 2 of the class 4 did not qualify for playoffs and one Smithfield was in near the bottom 7/8 in any case. We opted no game as in one weeks time we could not find a sub and Bruton was only playing 5 games.
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is that only on a full moon or a blue moon too. j/k but why so complicated.
Rules evolve, and typically get more complex, because of past problems. The old theory of "catastrophe reform". As an example, virtually every fire prevention code came about after a horrible and tragic event.
So, it's a safe bet, that most of the rules in the VHSL Handbook use the wording that the do, because of some previous ill defined situation.
You know, like when they have to put "Do Not Eat" on Tide Pods???
From someone who doesn't care in any way about any of the teams involved or effected, I see ONE solution. Not leave it up to each school how they accept it, whether that is before or during the season, but make it universal. So it either counts as a forfeit for each, or a non game for each.
What I am reading is some taking up for the decision because it helps them, and others not liking it because it hurts them, and I completely get why they would be upset when it hurts.
Sure these teams will make the playoffs, but it sounds like it could cost the school a home playoff game, which is money, and could effect the KIDS chances at achieving something.
What I am reading is some taking up for the decision because it helps them, and others not liking it because it hurts them, and I completely get why they would be upset when it hurts.
Sure these teams will make the playoffs, but it sounds like it could cost the school a home playoff game, which is money, and could effect the KIDS chances at achieving something.
Those things taste terrible. Why anyone would want to eat them is beyond me.
Geez, y'all stop piling on Lafayette...if you want confirmation that the school's decision was a legitimate option, contact VHSL...would they let them do it if it wasn't? Frankly, it sounds like what they did was smart, and I couldn't fault another team for doing the same thing. If Dinwiddie wasn't affected by Smithfield's decision, we wouldn't be talking about this....
What exactly does "If Dinwiddie wasn't effected by this we would be talking about it" mean? Are you saying the other teams who are getting ripped by this (Bay Rivers District decision) should look the other way. Yes, other teams are effected! LT, Louisa and anybody else who could possibly have more points and I have to travel to Lafayette instead of playing at home. Is it smart? I guess if its legal. Personally, I really don't give a rip about Lafayette! Said that ten times already. They are a darn good team. I simply stated that the rules should be applied fairly and equally. Meaning if one team in the Bay Rivers takes the forfeit all teams should and visa versa. The VHSL is going to decide this mess. Once the decision is made like it or not I will shut up.
If it is a district game, and a team is not going to play due to lack of players, then there stands a very good chance the team with players (and going to the playoffs too) would win this game. Furthermore, there is a very good chance that said team wouldn't be winning very many games period. Therefore, I think the district teams should be required to accept it as a forfeit. Wouldn't all teams love the chance to delete one of their games off their schedule that doesn't help them? Not fair to opponents.
However, what about out of district opponents you schedule 2+ years in advance? Should you penalized
However, what about out of district opponents you schedule 2+ years in advance? Should you penalized
Unfortunately, I think VHSL has decided and the decision is that it is up to the individual schools.
A few years ago Carroll County did not want to make the trip to Salem to get beat by 50 and Salem had to take the forfeit even though it would have benefitted them to just not count the game at all.
It means nobody else likely would have brought it up...if Dinwiddie hadn't lost, would you be as emotional? Look the other way? You act as if a crime were committed...I seriously doubt this was a Bay Rivers District conspiracy...besides, doesn't the VHSL have the ultimate say? If so, it's already been done and approved, so there's nothing to decide....
The weekly VHSL ratings spreadsheets already indicate the actions taken. One replacement game, two asterisks for forfeit wins, two no games. It’s done.
Remember these cancellations happened only a week or so before the season starting making it near impossible to find a replacement. Why should a team be “forced” to accept a forfeit from a team only playing a partial season? The decision left up to each school is not unfortunate.
You obviously cannot read? I said Dinwiddie should never have lost. They made their own bed! I also said I had more of a beef with Hopewell and Powhatan. Its not just about Dinwiddie. Not upset about anything. This is a board to discuss things civilly and I am doing that. I am not bad mouthing anyone or any team. What exactly did LT and Louisa possibly do to be punished. What if Dinwiddie had not lost and finished with a the projected points of 31.4 and Lafayette had a 31.6. Should we still shut up and let two separate teams cost us 4 points. I would bet Lafayette would do the same if they were in Dinwiddie's, Lousias, and LT's position. I am done with this. I will go back into hiding. lol Little clue for you LHS Rams. Dinwiddie is too young to contend for the title. Been saying it all year. No crying here.
Why should the other teams accept them. Just saying! Lets just let it go Lafayette. if you guys are good with beating LT out of the top seed by this method and garnering home field advantage like this Im good with it. You have a hell of a team. Think the Rams are going to win at least the semi anyway.
All you've been doing is ranting, and you're most definitely upset...what did Lafayette do to be criticized like this? They were offered options by the VHSL and chose the one best for them...if you have a problem w/that, contact the VHSL. Collusion, you say? Absurd!
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