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Discussion in 'Class 4A (Fall)' started by freeatlast2013, Feb 21, 2018.
Yes, caught Salem napping.
And Louisa struggled with Ramsey.
DSH, we may have a difference of opinions on here as fans, but I think all of us are proud of the kids that play the game for our enjoyment and have the opportunity to play the game they love and possibly get help with their education expenses doing it.
And you didn't see Blacksburg yet you feel comfortable doubting those who did because you think it serves some secret agenda by Salem fans and this is why you have issues with logic. There is no agenda that serves Salem fans because Salem won the title. I don't care if Salem beats the Sisters of the Poor each year, a title is a title. Nobody is doubting Salem thus there is no need by Salem fans to legitimize the title in an argument thus there is no need to stump for Blacksburg which means people like mike salem and Shabutie are telling you their honest thoughts not trying to serve a hidden agenda (you understand that thinking Salem fans talking up Blacksburg to serve their purposes for a title they won months ago is insane, right?)
Blacksburg was good, simple as that. If you don't think Salem was a title-worthy team or something then it'll probably mean less to you but think of everything you saw from playoff-level Salem and realize Blacksburg was the team who took Salem the furthest in the fight. If GW and Sherando and Cville were 1st round KOs and Louisa was an 11th round KO then Blacksburg was a 2-1 judges' decision.
Never said Salem wasn’t deserving of the championship. They do what they do and do it well. 3 years in a row. They are a very fortunate program. They are always in the right place at the right time. GW, Sherando and Cville weren’t in the class with Salem, Blacksburg, Dinwiddie, Louisa, Lafayette, or Monacan..However, I stick to my statement. Of the 6 teams, Blacksburg isn’t the second best team in that bunch.
Edit: Eastern View was also in the same class with Dinwiddie, BB, Salem, etc.
Absolutely brother. At the end of the day, it’s all about the kids!
I didn't say you did, that was a general "you" not a specific one.
The issue is like I said, Blacksburg isn't a traditional power and to boot it wasn't watched by the people discussing it and the only people who did are people who you think are only doing it to better their own team.
I have sat down and watched Blacksburg on YouTube. They played their best football against Salem..2 very good games.. But check this out.. Dinwiddie comes to Salem without the best defensive player in the state of Virginia, wins. AGAIN. Dinwiddie runs the table and goes undefeated in the regular season. Beats Dale , MBK, Hopewell (3a state champs), and EV. Monacan beats Manchester and Bird..Louisa then beats Monacan and Widdie on the road. BB resume is no where near that! And that’s Facts!! There’s no way you can legitimately say that B.B. was the second best 4a team in the state. No way in hell!! They lost to Botty, beat Amherst (by the same margin GW beat them in the second game) and beat Giles and Richlands. The River Ridge district was just as weak as the Piedmont minus Salem.
Back to the OP for a minute. When looking at district performance, the Seminole over the last 19 years has appeared in 13 VHSL championship games winning 8 titles with 5 different teams. (Amherst, Brookville, Heritage, Liberty, and Rustburg) Every team in the district has won titles in the last 30 years. (Glass in 88, JF in 92 & 93) I won't list LCA's private school's titles since I don't think they're comparable, but they've been successful as well.
You were making some reasonable points until you said "the River Ridge was just as weak as the Piedmont minus Salem." Blacksburg would have beaten every team in the Piedmont by 3+ TD's. 6/8 of the PD teams were at or below .500, 4/7 of the RRD teams were above .500.
I'm still not saying Blacksburg was a clear cut #2, but certainly in the discussion.
Piedmont, really????? Did someone take over your phone for that last bit?
Blacksburg has a case for stating they were a top team but truth is the parity between widdie, EV, monacan, Louisa, Salem and Blacksburg was minimal. I believe most of these teams would split a 10 games series damn near even 5-5 or 6-4 very few 7-3s IMO, however the way the playoffs are set up everywhere somebody has to take down a Goliath or powerhouse to gain their standing and position. Argument of this team would or could beat such and such doesn’t exactly serve a point BC we only have the paper results from who did play who, LOUISA had the best record overall but they lost in the championship to a team who suffered losses early and overcame them. If you wonder who the top team is look no further than the champions but anything after #1 doesn’t matter that much, Louisa was the last loser when it counted. However they still lost, those kids/families will cherish that moment but in history they’re known as runner up, the 2nd best team in 4A.
Edit: Lafayette did topple some nice teams out of region A, kings fork and deep creek if I’m not mistaken to make it to the semis
Louisa had a great team with a number of athletes that will play on Saturday. The same is true of Dinwiddie and Blacksburg (teams that I saw in person) Although I didn't see Monacan or Eastern View, their respective performances vs Louisa and Dinwiddie put them right in the thick of the discussion. I should also add Lafayette in that mix of top teams in 4A. They only lost once, to Louisa by a TD.
Here's how I'd rank the top East and West teams, having seen all of them.
7. Eastern View
10. King's Fork
Although for defense only, I'd rank Lafayette #1.
This is one of those conversations that no one can win. But, I think you have to toss out the regular season loss that Salem gave up to Dinwiddie. Salem grew and developed as a team and peaked in the playoffs. You can't however forget the regular season beat down that Blacksburg gave Salem (because it was so bad). Cole Beck has speed that is hard to comprehend unless you see it. If someone misses a tackle, he's gone. If someone misses an assignment, he's gone. Bad angel, he's gone. Unforgiving speed. When you combine Cole with a really good defense and some notable kids on the offensive side, you can't deny Blacksburg was tough. My personal thought was that Salem stole a win from Blacksburg in the playoffs.
I'm not even giving Blacksburg the nod just for killing Salem during the regular season, they also gave them their closes game in the playoffs by far when the Spartans were playing really well. They had the ability to control Ramsey better than any of the other top teams and then had cover guys to matchup up with Tucker defensively. Blacksburg dominated the LOS the first game against Salem and in my opinion won it again in the playoffs although it was much closer. I legitimately felt like Blacksburg was the better team in several areas even in the second matchup. I agree with 24153 where I left the game thinking Salem stole one.
Pretty good list. I can see 1-3 but would probably have 4 and 5 switched. Although you got to see Louisa against both teams so you might have better insight.
It was. Cave Spring? Hidden Valley? Christiansburg? They are/were terrible. Same tier as Bassett, Tunstall and Halifax. PH maybe in the same tier as FC..Mediocre at best. Pulaski and MV a step up but still not good. The River Ridge was not a good district like it has been in the past. Not even close. What’s the difference in GW beating a 2-8 Tunstall team and Blacksburg and Salem beating a 1-9 Cave Spring team? Nobody in their right mind can legitimately tell me that there’s any difference. However, Dinwiddie beating a 4-6 MBK team (who plays a gauntlet of a schedule every year) by 4+ TDs..Now that’s impressive.
Why even bother though..,Talking strength of schedules..According to Roanoke fans.. Byrd gets a pass and was legit even though they scheduled CS, HV, BASSETT & Martinsville last year LOL!!! Talk about bias! Without a doubt most of the “terrible” 804/757 teams that didn’t make the playoffs would fair well with that schedule. TERRRIBLE!
I also saw Monacan live against Manchester. Monacan would get all the praise on here if they had gotten that win against LT in '14 and/or played Salem last year.
Let me repeat your quote. "the River Ridge was just as weak as the Piedmont minus Salem." You completely left Blacksburg out of the equation. The Piedmont didn't have a team that would have come anywhere close to beating Salem OR Blacksburg. So obviously the RRD wasn't as weak as the Piedmont. PH and Pulaski were 2nd tier maybe on the same level as Magna Vista. (They beat the 6 teams at the bottom of the Piedmont, plus 5-6 Dan River and 1-9 Patrick Co) Of course Cave Spring, Hidden Valley, and Christiansburg were terrible, but the Piedmont had 6 teams below .500. Martinsville at 5-6 got destroyed by William Byrd, a team you said was weak. Franklin Co lost to Liberty, the worst team in the Seminole. The other 4 teams in the Piedmont got their few wins by beating each other.
The RRD had 2 state level teams, the Piedmont had 0.
MV was the second best team in the Piedmont and arguably would have been the fourth(maybe fifth) best team in the River Ridge. PH beats FC 9 out of 10 times and that 10th is the "on any given day scenario". A very down(from their recent historical level) Christiansburg and Carroll County are comparable to the 3 weak sisters of the Piedmont but, Hidden Valley and Cave Spring would beat those 3 far more regularly than they would lose to them if for no other reason than just better coaching. The Piedmont District is currently and legitimately in the conversation of the weakest districts in the state.
Actually Carroll isn't in the RRD anymore, but your point is still well made.
Weren't they still in RR during the time this comparison refers to? I realize they are no longer in the RR much to the delight of CC and the entire RR, another one of those R&R decisions by the VHSL that was a head scratcher.
They didn't play in the RRD in 2017. They played in the 3RD this past year and they didn't fare much better there.
I was talking about Blacksburg’s opponents. My statement still stands. Minus Salem, the RR wins that B.B. got was weak. So let’s get this straight Mike was Sherando a state level team? Let’s hear this...Better things to do than debate about meaningless football teams.
So we’re debating what teams are the worst of the worst? Meaningless football teams. Don’t you have some more GW hate to spew?
Thanks Mike you are correct. I mixed up the years.
Who in Danville hurt you @cutnjump? These kids are going places in your hometown. Be happy and supportive of them. I write checks that they can't cash, cool. I'm a supporter of GW athletics cause without football or basketball, they're in the streets. So yeah, I'll continue to write those checks and put their names out here for the positives things they're doing. Don't have a problem with that one bit. And MV being the 4th or 5th team in the RR last year? Now that's bulletin board material! Y'all have it though. What the city of Blacksburg have on y'all anyway? Talk negatively about Blacksburg High...WW3...Talk about virginia tech chokies..WW4 5 AND 6..
PH and Pulaski would have beaten every team in the Piedmont with the exception of GW. So no the RRD wasn't as weak as the Piedmont.
I'm not really sure why the Piedmont was even brought into the discussion. If you are saying Blacksburg played a weaker schedule than Dinwiddie or Monacan, then yes I would agree with that. That doesn't discount the fact that they were a top 6 or 7 team in 4A which is all I said. They would have been competitive with any team in 4A.
Sherando was not state level. If I thought they were I would have put them in my top handful of teams. The East was obviously much deeper at the top and getting to the championship game was a much tougher road. Bottom line is when it came down to the championship game Salem won and I believe if Blacksburg would have been the West representative they would have been toe to toe with Louisa, Dinwiddie, Monacan, Eastern View, or Lafayette. That's all I've been saying, I never said Blacksburg was #2.
I didn't bring up the Piedmont. All I know is the RRD had 2 teams that were state level at the end of the year and were certainly worthy of consideration when talking about elite teams in 4A.
I've heard the weak schedule argument for years, but if you step up at crunch time against some of the best in the state then your schedule becomes a moot point.
I am not hurt at all but, the truth obviously hurts you and when being called out and unable to produce a rational, fact based rebuttal you resort to trying to change the subject or debate. Do yourself a favor and think a little harder before you hit send. You will be less likely to get embarrassed or angry when replies challenge your position.
Okay cutnjump or whoever you are. I'm going to listen to you from now on. You know so much. 2,682 likes received, I don't know squat.
There you go again but, thanks for reinforcing my point. The number of likes are not necessarily indicative of what you may or may not know nor did I say that you did not know squat. Neither of the previous two observations contradicts the point of your behavior and posting style when challenged on certain obviously erroneous statements or opinions. The old adage, "when you find yourself in a hole quit digging" would seem to merit your consideration here.
Hoos, list is about as close to accurate as you will get. All season I thought Monacan was the best team in the east; however, Louisa ended their season. I kept telling the people close to me that I was extremely concerned with Louisa and actually made the same statement to the Lions announcers before the game. Why? because, Dinwiddie's defense consistently struggles against big and punishing runners (Rogers-Hanover, Cheatham-Hanover, Ashton -Sherando, Fox-Salem, Ramsey-Salem, Johnson - LT, Kraegenbrink -Lafayette and Bell -Louisa).
I make this point, because matchups completely muddle things. Believe it or not each team listed in the top ten is vulnerable to something. In my opinion, Louisa and Salem had the fewest weaknesses of all the teams being discussed. They deserved to be in the final period. After #2, no one on this board could definitively justify what order teams fall. I can tell you without a shadow of doubt Blacksburg, Monacan, EV, and Dinwiddie were very similar in style and talent. The champions (Salem) had their struggles with Blacksburg and Dinwiddie. Monacan and EV would have played them close as well, but would they fair any better than Louisa? Nope, because none of the aforementioned teams would have beaten Louisa.
Before you crucify me lets look at why. The above teams all utilize the spread or variation of it. Whether on the ground or through the air they score fast and score often thus putting the defense back on the field. Louisa was extremely successful at absorbing blows and eating up the clock. It only takes one turnover or punt and boom they were up 14. Playing catch up or matching scores against Louisa just added to the defensive issues. They didn't care if you passed all night on them, but you were not going to run. I know Beck's quality, just like I do the other teams talented backs, but Louisa just wouldn't let teams get traction on the ground. You can argue with this all day long, but please consider adding 20-25 defensive plays a game to your players that go both ways workload. Its hard to run the ball when you expend so much energy on defense.
Guys, the record book says Salem #1, Louisa #2 and the rest of us went home early. Lets focus on the upcoming season.
This is exactly why I have harped for years now about our defense needing to be just good enough to get those couple of timely stops and let the offense go to work, because the offense was going to do its thing, even while all those kids were sophomores. Last season everything finally came together and they stayed the most healthy. Plus the offense was potent and versatile enough that we could score off 3 plays or grind out the clock for 80 yard drives. I was texting Mbonape1 during the Dinwiddie game that Louisa's opening drive of the 3rd quarter would be crazy important. And what did we do? Drive it 80 yards and ate up over half of the quarter. That was the most impressed I've been with my guys all season. Without the intermediate passing game and the good enough defense, we get bounced against Monacan again.
And, Carrol County beat Patrick County easily.
I agree with just about everything. I would like to ask this . Was Sherando the no. 2 best school when they played for the state championship? Salem was much, much, better at the end of season, especially defensively and taking care of the ball, than they were at beginning. In fact, the Generals coach picked Louisa in the final. I believe Dinwiddie had 47 yards rushing against Louisa. Salem had 316 against Louisa. Salem was a different team that had all those turnovers in the earlier game against Dinwiddie. This is a fact. If Cole Beck ran freely it was a touchdown. He ran caught the ball out of backfield and Blacksburg was quite good defensively.
And Oh yeah let's go on to 2018 .