What are the teams to look out for next season?
- Thread starter Lewis918777
- Start date
Salem, Northside, Sherando, Lake Taylor, Hidden Valley could be decent, Me being a Salem fan have to add in if they can get their defense figured out it'll be just like last year no one will stop them till State championship.
4A North (oops - West!): From what I remember of teams' key losses and returnees, I'd guess that the top four will be Salem, GW, JF, and Sherando, with Woodgrove and Liberty threatening to crash the party.
Salem will have lots of ?'s, but the coaches and kids are usually pretty adept at coming up with answers.
4A East: I have very little idea, but it's probably a safe bet that Lake Taylor will again be the favorite (for the region, and likely for the state). Seems like Dinwiddie was very young, so they should be back in the mix at the top. No idea what Monacan has back, but hopefully whomever that is will now be schooled on playing to the whistle.
Northside and Hidden Vallley will both still be in the 3A ranks. The Vikings should again be a top contender in 3A West, and probably in 3A overall. I would argue that HV was barely decent this past season, once Dermott went out. The Titans lose him, Atkins, and Harris, and I don't think their JV team was too great (could be mistaken on that). So, barring an infusion of transfers, I don't see HV being very good in 2015; somewhere in the four-to-six win range.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:30 AM by SpartanOfYore
Salem will have lots of ?'s, but the coaches and kids are usually pretty adept at coming up with answers.
4A East: I have very little idea, but it's probably a safe bet that Lake Taylor will again be the favorite (for the region, and likely for the state). Seems like Dinwiddie was very young, so they should be back in the mix at the top. No idea what Monacan has back, but hopefully whomever that is will now be schooled on playing to the whistle.
Northside and Hidden Vallley will both still be in the 3A ranks. The Vikings should again be a top contender in 3A West, and probably in 3A overall. I would argue that HV was barely decent this past season, once Dermott went out. The Titans lose him, Atkins, and Harris, and I don't think their JV team was too great (could be mistaken on that). So, barring an infusion of transfers, I don't see HV being very good in 2015; somewhere in the four-to-six win range.
This post was edited on 2/23 2:30 AM by SpartanOfYore
Ok, my first guess at the east seeds. I'll leave it up to one or more of you west folks to do the seeds for your teams. Admittedly, I do not have a lot to go on with many of these teams. The top few are pretty easy, except for the order. And, as everyone knows, the final seeding has a lot to do with, first your schedule, and secondly, how many games the teams you play manage to win or loose. For instance, we played Jamestown and Caroline last year and they were not very successful. And the bottom six or so are nearly impossible to seed, so please, no one get offended. Just a wild guessing game right now. But it beats all hell out of not having any football to talk about. So, here goes. And this is my seeding, not my prediction as to the final 4, then 2, and the eventual East champ.
Lake Taylor
Dinwiddie
Heritage
Monacan
Hanover
Kings Fork
Eastern View
Great Bridge
Louisa
Deep Creek
Powhatan
Courtland
Denbigh
Lafayette
Smithfield
Churchland
DP
Lake Taylor
Dinwiddie
Heritage
Monacan
Hanover
Kings Fork
Eastern View
Great Bridge
Louisa
Deep Creek
Powhatan
Courtland
Denbigh
Lafayette
Smithfield
Churchland
DP
With all due respects to the great fans of Salem, I'll go on record and say GW will probably be the best team in 4a North. I think the boys from Danville will be very dangerous, depending on how our young quarterback progresses. A tough schedule, 3 very good running backs, and the defense that will be much improved under the our defensive coordinator, which will be in year two. We won't have a Hunter Byrnes or Malik Clements but we have the talent and players to step up. Should be a great year in Danville. (In My Opinion)
I was thinking the same thing with all due respect to Salem. It's going to be real tough if you have to come to Danville
Yes, I've seen all your "respectful" comments. Very amusing.
Everyone has their opinion. Mine is, as of what we know right now, you're off the mark. Salem will be favored in at least nine of their games, with possibly one (Northside) being considered a toss-up. A 9-1 Salem is going to outpoint even a 10-0 GW. I'm not too sure about GW's schedule being tough. They'll still have to play district foes Franklin County, Halifax County, Patrick County, Martinsville, Bassett, and Tunstall. That's sixty percent of the schedule, and none of those games looks to be too tough as of today; nor will wins over those six result in a ton of bonus points, unless all of them improve dramatically, which doesn't seem too likely. I read previously where GW picked up some new non-district opponents, all in NC, if I recall correctly. GW still has to actually win those games, and even if they do, they have to hope that those defeated opponents win lots of games to accumulate bonus points. So, an upgrade to the non-district portion of the schedule doesn't really assure anything. But, kudos for upgrading it, at least.
If everyone stays healthy, Salem should have the best backfield in 4A West, and possibly in the state. You might remember the fullback Ramsey from the GW game - he's the one that had five rushing TD's (and one on D). As I stated in my previous post, Salem has plenty of young talent, and no lack of coaching behind that talent. As for GW's defense - the assumption that it will be much-improved better be correct, because that D was almost non-existent last year in the playoff game with Salem. So, regardless of where a potential playoff match-up might occur, I'm not overly worried about Salem versus GW, head-to-head. Salem will have enough returning and new talent to keep the Eagles from bridging what was basically a four TD gap (the last GW TD coming when they had twelve men on the field). Just my opinion.
The wild card will be the performance of teams like Liberty, Woodgrove, and Sherando. We get very little info about them down here, and reading all the "homer" papers online makes it difficult to judge them accurately. For all we know, one of them - or even someone else - could end up being the region's top dog.
Everyone has their opinion. Mine is, as of what we know right now, you're off the mark. Salem will be favored in at least nine of their games, with possibly one (Northside) being considered a toss-up. A 9-1 Salem is going to outpoint even a 10-0 GW. I'm not too sure about GW's schedule being tough. They'll still have to play district foes Franklin County, Halifax County, Patrick County, Martinsville, Bassett, and Tunstall. That's sixty percent of the schedule, and none of those games looks to be too tough as of today; nor will wins over those six result in a ton of bonus points, unless all of them improve dramatically, which doesn't seem too likely. I read previously where GW picked up some new non-district opponents, all in NC, if I recall correctly. GW still has to actually win those games, and even if they do, they have to hope that those defeated opponents win lots of games to accumulate bonus points. So, an upgrade to the non-district portion of the schedule doesn't really assure anything. But, kudos for upgrading it, at least.
If everyone stays healthy, Salem should have the best backfield in 4A West, and possibly in the state. You might remember the fullback Ramsey from the GW game - he's the one that had five rushing TD's (and one on D). As I stated in my previous post, Salem has plenty of young talent, and no lack of coaching behind that talent. As for GW's defense - the assumption that it will be much-improved better be correct, because that D was almost non-existent last year in the playoff game with Salem. So, regardless of where a potential playoff match-up might occur, I'm not overly worried about Salem versus GW, head-to-head. Salem will have enough returning and new talent to keep the Eagles from bridging what was basically a four TD gap (the last GW TD coming when they had twelve men on the field). Just my opinion.
The wild card will be the performance of teams like Liberty, Woodgrove, and Sherando. We get very little info about them down here, and reading all the "homer" papers online makes it difficult to judge them accurately. For all we know, one of them - or even someone else - could end up being the region's top dog.
Why? What should we expect? Cheap shots galore, constant trash talking, and general low-class behavior? We saw all of that up here last year, so we'll have a good idea of what to expect.
This post was edited on 2/24 6:35 PM by SpartanOfYore
This post was edited on 2/24 6:35 PM by SpartanOfYore
Yes, Fleming should keep improving under Martin's direction. However, I don't think they'll be quite at the level in 2015 to be considered top contenders. Probably won't be too long, though.
Cut, I'll leave the tallest midget comment alone, lol, but I'm not sure that this is the year that the west keeps it close. There are four teams in the east that promise to be very stout. The one that emerges will not be much different than the last two years. Possibly stronger to a degree that LT was last year. So with no falloff in the east, the improvement has to be from the west. I just don't see any evidence that this substantial improvement is going to occur this coming season.
One senerio, if the team that is the hands down pick to win the east, like LT was last year, suffers the loss of a couple of key players in the semis or regional championship game, but still manage to make it to Lynchburg. But, most, if not all of the top half dozen teams in the east are not built around a superstar or two. Yeah, they all have standout players that they hate the thought of losing, but the depth in these teams tends to mitigate this type of player loss. An example, name two players that the sudden loss of would have seriously affected the outcome of the last two 4a state championship games? Bingo. There really were not any. There was so much team talent and depth that even a key player or two can be adaquetaly compensated for.
One top team in the east that may be vulnerable, after the loss of one key player, might be Hanover. Not because they don't have plenty of talented players. But I forsee their QB Clayton Cheatham developing into one of the top players in the state. He has the talent and the leadership abilities to evolve into an All American level QB. If he develops as projected, the loss of a player of this caliber and importance can be devastating to a team.
For sure, I think everyone wants to see the gap closed. It serves no real purpose to have one side dominate the other, year after year. Yeah, there are those that poke out their chest and brag about the east dominance. But truthfully, this is all supposed to be about what's best for our kids. Pouring salt on disappointment doesn't help anyone.
I love fact based discussions. Even ones like this that are as much informed conjecture as "only the facts, sir". So I hope you good folks will chime in and offer your thoughts, and opinions.
DP
One senerio, if the team that is the hands down pick to win the east, like LT was last year, suffers the loss of a couple of key players in the semis or regional championship game, but still manage to make it to Lynchburg. But, most, if not all of the top half dozen teams in the east are not built around a superstar or two. Yeah, they all have standout players that they hate the thought of losing, but the depth in these teams tends to mitigate this type of player loss. An example, name two players that the sudden loss of would have seriously affected the outcome of the last two 4a state championship games? Bingo. There really were not any. There was so much team talent and depth that even a key player or two can be adaquetaly compensated for.
One top team in the east that may be vulnerable, after the loss of one key player, might be Hanover. Not because they don't have plenty of talented players. But I forsee their QB Clayton Cheatham developing into one of the top players in the state. He has the talent and the leadership abilities to evolve into an All American level QB. If he develops as projected, the loss of a player of this caliber and importance can be devastating to a team.
For sure, I think everyone wants to see the gap closed. It serves no real purpose to have one side dominate the other, year after year. Yeah, there are those that poke out their chest and brag about the east dominance. But truthfully, this is all supposed to be about what's best for our kids. Pouring salt on disappointment doesn't help anyone.
I love fact based discussions. Even ones like this that are as much informed conjecture as "only the facts, sir". So I hope you good folks will chime in and offer your thoughts, and opinions.
DP
Sometimes people just need a little reality check and in this case I thought both Spartan and DSH needed a little needle. Just having a little fun with them. As far as the gap closing to two touchdowns, that is still a large gap. I think the real question is when a player goes down. Not disputing your contention regarding depth but, if an east/south team sustains injuries in a regional game or regular season game there may be enough depth both on that team and in the region that it still will not alter the outcome against the west/north in a state championship game, however, an in game injury in the championship could have a much greater effect. Let's use LT to explain what I'm trying to say. Two years ago LT loses its top two QB's early in the season and what was arguably the best team in the region was merely replaced by an equally good Dinwiddie team. Please note I am not saying Dinwiddie could not have beaten LT anyway just that the injuries to LT serve as a good example of the region depth that I previously spoke of. Last year had LT sustained an injury in a regional or regular season game I believe there would have still been enough depth both on their team and in the region to still complete the championship run against the west/north. Where it gets murky is if a key player goes down in the actual state championship game. If either Johnson or Quinerly go down in the championship game, the lack of any adjustment/transition period could(not saying it would) have affected the game's outcome.
GW? in the West? Thats a stretch to me....who wants to go Danville? your right , after what happened at Salem last year, who would want to go to GW? Tough schedule?, they are going to have to be a lot better than last year. And I remember Danville and some others talking about GW highly then also, seen what happened.....It's going to be the usual teams this year in the West. Salem, Sherando, JF, maybe Woodgrove, Loudoun County will be good, Liberty will be down. ....But Dinwiddie is Right, the east will be the huge favorite again. Wasting our Breathe talking about the 4A champion coming from the west. Should be just talking about winning the West. I have Salem and Sherando meeting in Salem as my prediction... With as of now, Salem being the better team to win the West. Things can change though. Always a surprise now and then.
That's your opinion and I respect it. 10-0 is 10-0. If GW goes 10-0 this year, I would hope they'd be the #1 team in 4a north by playing arguably the best 4a team in NC this upcoming year in Charlotte Vance. We can't help we're 4-6 TD's better than teams in our district other than MV.
Give us a reason why GW won't go far this year Hamspear? What do we have returning? What do you know about our program?
They'll be back in the playoffs because they play a relatively weak schedule. Last year, only Magna Vista had a winning record (although they did beat the 3A State Champ. Gotta' give them credit for that) and they were very fortunate to get past Courtland.
But overall this year, they don't have a tough road in the West. They will make a run. But in this case it's not a matter of how good GW is, it's how good are the other guys in the West. GW has to get past the usual suspects in the end and none of them will be like anyone they play during the regular season.
But overall this year, they don't have a tough road in the West. They will make a run. But in this case it's not a matter of how good GW is, it's how good are the other guys in the West. GW has to get past the usual suspects in the end and none of them will be like anyone they play during the regular season.
I don't know specifics about GW other than recent history which matters the most. What Shauntclair tells us, and I also respect the Salem posters as it relates to overall talent level, and quality of schedule for the teams in that portion of the State. I also listen to what you guys say about your team also, understand and respect that you have a lot of talent coming back. I believe what Spartanofyore says, and salemfan32, and mike Salem also. You yourself say you are starting a young QB, when was the last time a young QB won a region? it's been a few years. and defense is the most important aspect of any Championship team. Do I know everything? NO. do I know enough? I think so. I agree it nice to see that GW has strengthened the schedule, that would go a long way to prepare for the tough playoffs in Virginia. I don't think there would be a 30 point reversal in point spread of the final between Salem and GW from last year to this year. And I think that the fact the isolation of Danville kind of out on a island in the middle lower portion of the state makes for it easy to lose a perception of how good a team really is. everyone thought they could beat Salem until they went to Salem last year. What makes anyone think that Salem will lose a game before they get to the playoffs? Salem will have home field throughout, unless a team with a tough schedule can win 10-0 like Sherando as a example. and I don think Sherando will be undefeated come playoff time. Could be wrong but I think even if GW goes undefeated, they would struggle getting home field the whole playoffs? Been wrong many times before, but that is how I see it.
Here's the thought process for me. Salem is a proven program that's simply going to be one of the favorites to get to the finals again. They lose a lot but this program reloads year after year. My take on GW is they lose a lot with the loss of QB/LB Byrnes and WR/DB Clements. Arguably, their 2 best players. That's significant hits on offense and defense when you lose these kind of skill players that accounted for so much on each side of the ball. Byrnes passed for 30 TD's last year and 2500 yards. He rushed for 19 more. Clements had almost 1000 yards receiving, 12 TD's and averaged over 18 yards a catch. 61 TD's is a lot of firepower to replace.
Now, perhaps the GW program has come to the point where they can simply reload also. In the last 3 years, they've done well. I also noticed they had a number of Freshmen and Sophomores on their roster last year. Getting exposure at the Varsity level is important. We'll have to see what happens. Everyone is currently undefeated. I certainly see GW in the playoffs.
But if Salem does have to come to Danville, you'd be making a much smarter bet that the Spartans will roll all over GW again. The guarantee is that Salem will be almost as good as last year. They'll be putting the same quality product on the field. Just different faces. The question is, will GW be 3 TD's better than last year? GL in 2015.
Now, perhaps the GW program has come to the point where they can simply reload also. In the last 3 years, they've done well. I also noticed they had a number of Freshmen and Sophomores on their roster last year. Getting exposure at the Varsity level is important. We'll have to see what happens. Everyone is currently undefeated. I certainly see GW in the playoffs.
But if Salem does have to come to Danville, you'd be making a much smarter bet that the Spartans will roll all over GW again. The guarantee is that Salem will be almost as good as last year. They'll be putting the same quality product on the field. Just different faces. The question is, will GW be 3 TD's better than last year? GL in 2015.
GW's numbers continue to grow under Coach Anderson. He has been focusing on getting the players stronger. This is only his second full off season.GW will be replacing an outstanding QB. The defense should be stronger in 2015. GW should continue to have good team speed . GW is close to where they will be reloading each year.
Salem is also replacing a very good QB.
When you consider the 2014 playoff teams switching to the East, Glass and Amherst look like sure bets to return to the playoffs and Fleming to move into the top 8.
Salem is also replacing a very good QB.
When you consider the 2014 playoff teams switching to the East, Glass and Amherst look like sure bets to return to the playoffs and Fleming to move into the top 8.
Yes, Couling was an excellent QB for the Spartans and will be missed. Coleman Fox on offense and defense will also be heading out. But you know the Spartans already have a QB who has waited his turn and they have a plethora of RB's. Ramsey will be a bull in their offense and the speed guys are just sitting in the wings. Frankly, many of the backups for Salem would be starters for most teams. That's how deep they are.
I like the thought process for Amherst and Glass. With the new alignment, they have a good shot. Although the Amherst schedule remains brutal, even without Lake Taylor this year. 6 of the 10 teams they played were no worse than 8 - 2 in 2014. One State Champ and 2 in the Semi-Finals. That's rough. I'd certainly like to see the Lancer's get there in 2015. They'd be 1 tough out if they do. Glass's schedule isn't a lot easier. Fleming could be a threat but again, despite several years of what seems like potential, the schedule makes it tough.
I like the thought process for Amherst and Glass. With the new alignment, they have a good shot. Although the Amherst schedule remains brutal, even without Lake Taylor this year. 6 of the 10 teams they played were no worse than 8 - 2 in 2014. One State Champ and 2 in the Semi-Finals. That's rough. I'd certainly like to see the Lancer's get there in 2015. They'd be 1 tough out if they do. Glass's schedule isn't a lot easier. Fleming could be a threat but again, despite several years of what seems like potential, the schedule makes it tough.
Wally, and Maroons,
I haven't done a lot of widespread checking on all of the top contenders in the east, but a hurdle that Monacan and Heritage have to face are, heavy losses to graduation. Available numbers are often a little off, but Monacan is losing about 15 seniors, and Heritage about 20. Dinwiddie loses about a half dozen, but only four had significant playing time. One additional senior Dinwiddie is losing, that would ordinarily be critical is their very successful place kicker, Cody Bell. Good fortune is shining on the Generals in the form of veteran, rising senior, Zachary Staton. Zack has considerable game experience, and no fall off in a quality kicking game is expected.
I say this only half in jest, Lake Taylor is so darn deep, I don't even think that they realize that they lose kids to graduation down there. With nothing but total respect meant to our active and past military, wasn't it in the original version of the movie, "The Dirty Dozen", that they were trying to clear a Nazi pill box? They had a weapon called a Bangor pole I believe? Each man would attach a section and shove it forward. Each time, the solider would go down and the next one up would run forward. After many went down, through sacrifice and prserverance, they eventually won the battle. LT reminds me of this, year after year after year.
I don't know about you ladies and guys, but second only to Spring, I sure am looking forward to football season.
I haven't done a lot of widespread checking on all of the top contenders in the east, but a hurdle that Monacan and Heritage have to face are, heavy losses to graduation. Available numbers are often a little off, but Monacan is losing about 15 seniors, and Heritage about 20. Dinwiddie loses about a half dozen, but only four had significant playing time. One additional senior Dinwiddie is losing, that would ordinarily be critical is their very successful place kicker, Cody Bell. Good fortune is shining on the Generals in the form of veteran, rising senior, Zachary Staton. Zack has considerable game experience, and no fall off in a quality kicking game is expected.
I say this only half in jest, Lake Taylor is so darn deep, I don't even think that they realize that they lose kids to graduation down there. With nothing but total respect meant to our active and past military, wasn't it in the original version of the movie, "The Dirty Dozen", that they were trying to clear a Nazi pill box? They had a weapon called a Bangor pole I believe? Each man would attach a section and shove it forward. Each time, the solider would go down and the next one up would run forward. After many went down, through sacrifice and prserverance, they eventually won the battle. LT reminds me of this, year after year after year.
I don't know about you ladies and guys, but second only to Spring, I sure am looking forward to football season.
Actually, there are two versions of the bangalore torpedo scenario that I know of. One was "The Longest Day". The other was "Saving Private Benjamin". This definitely did NOT happen in the Dirty Dozen.
However, the analogy was fine. Folks often discount the difference a FG, Kickoff or Punt Kicker can have in a game. When your defense is good and the other guy is in constant bad field position because of the kicker, your chances of winning are significantly impacted.
However, the analogy was fine. Folks often discount the difference a FG, Kickoff or Punt Kicker can have in a game. When your defense is good and the other guy is in constant bad field position because of the kicker, your chances of winning are significantly impacted.
Salem won't be as good as last year but they will be good enough to get back to the semis again. Not going to call them a lock for state like I was last year because there's more unknowns than knowns right now. Ramsey could have a really special year, the light bulb came on for him mid-season last year just like for Fox the year before that and he hasn't turned back. Spotlight will be his now, if he can seize this opportunity it could lead to big things.
I was looking over the alignment for next year, and paid special attention to the team's in Conference 21. With the exception of Sherando, I know virtually nothing about thoses teams. Especially the two Loudon teams.
I hope somebody from up that way, or with good knowledge of teams in that area will share their information with me/us. I know Hammy has some familiarity with these teams. I would love to learn more.
DP
I hope somebody from up that way, or with good knowledge of teams in that area will share their information with me/us. I know Hammy has some familiarity with these teams. I would love to learn more.
DP
That's real funny. Let's get some refs from Danville and play in Salem. That should cover that 3TD gap lol!
Elaborate, please.....
What claims did I make that make you feel I've lost touch with reality? All I've stated in this thread are 1) that Salem should be one the 4A West favorites in 2015; and 2) Salem will still be better than GW, and will win a head-to-head matchup with them. That's all. If you dispute either of those assertions, just say so. Neither of them seems too removed from reality to me, but others may see things differently.
I never claimed, intimated, hinted, or suggested that Salem - or any 4A West team - would be favored to win the state. So, let's try to avoid what happened from last July to last December, when we had about half a dozen different trolls (I do not include you among them) trumpeting that all the Salem fans were boasting how the Spartans would win state. I never saw any post from a Salem fan saying that - just several saying Salem could be "strong contenders", "could have a good chance", etc. Even detached third-party observers, such as oneman, were saying that the week before the championship game. The most inflammatory stuff probably came from 3putt, and we don't claim him.
Though I know very little about what any of the East teams will have coming back, I agree that the overall 4A favorite will be in that region - probably LT again, I suppose. I even stated that in my previous post. As for the tired assertion that "the top four teams in the East are better than the best team from the West", please see my response to your post, above.
I'm glad you're having fun. "Fun" is about the last word I would use to describe this site any more, which is why I'm just about done with it.
This post was edited on 3/4 4:10 PM by SpartanOfYore
What claims did I make that make you feel I've lost touch with reality? All I've stated in this thread are 1) that Salem should be one the 4A West favorites in 2015; and 2) Salem will still be better than GW, and will win a head-to-head matchup with them. That's all. If you dispute either of those assertions, just say so. Neither of them seems too removed from reality to me, but others may see things differently.
I never claimed, intimated, hinted, or suggested that Salem - or any 4A West team - would be favored to win the state. So, let's try to avoid what happened from last July to last December, when we had about half a dozen different trolls (I do not include you among them) trumpeting that all the Salem fans were boasting how the Spartans would win state. I never saw any post from a Salem fan saying that - just several saying Salem could be "strong contenders", "could have a good chance", etc. Even detached third-party observers, such as oneman, were saying that the week before the championship game. The most inflammatory stuff probably came from 3putt, and we don't claim him.
Though I know very little about what any of the East teams will have coming back, I agree that the overall 4A favorite will be in that region - probably LT again, I suppose. I even stated that in my previous post. As for the tired assertion that "the top four teams in the East are better than the best team from the West", please see my response to your post, above.
I'm glad you're having fun. "Fun" is about the last word I would use to describe this site any more, which is why I'm just about done with it.
This post was edited on 3/4 4:10 PM by SpartanOfYore
Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
VaPreps, Maxpreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, and both the official and classic Gilliams Ratings all had Salem as the number two team in 4A in their final rankings. Six different polls, all with different methodology, from subjective to completely mathematics-based. Aside from the champions from Lake Taylor, Salem was ahead of every 4A South (East) team in all of them.
I don't know what else I need to say.
VaPreps, Maxpreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, and both the official and classic Gilliams Ratings all had Salem as the number two team in 4A in their final rankings. Six different polls, all with different methodology, from subjective to completely mathematics-based. Aside from the champions from Lake Taylor, Salem was ahead of every 4A South (East) team in all of them.
I don't know what else I need to say.
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
Sorry your feelings got hurt. Last I checked games were played on the field not by computers and everybody is entitled to their opinion. Maybe one day the West will not be scared to cross bracket the semis and then this debate can be put to rest on both sides.
Sorry your feelings got hurt. Last I checked games were played on the field not by computers and everybody is entitled to their opinion. Maybe one day the West will not be scared to cross bracket the semis and then this debate can be put to rest on both sides.
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
No problem. No hurt feelings here - but I think you knew that. You know you have nothing to back you up, so you have to throw that smoke screen up. Pretty standard message board behavior, even from the more esteemed posters.
Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. [Does that hold true for me, as well?] Thanks for helping to bolster my point. Of the six different polls that I cited, at least one - VaPreps - is based on peoples' opinions. Am I not correct in thinking that they arrive at their poll results by a vote of their people that cover high school football? If so, Rod can correct me, and I'll be happy for the correction. So, in the opinion of some knowledgeable people at VaPreps, Salem was the second-best team in 4A. That's ALL of 4A.
That's at least one opinion-based poll (Maxpreps might also be?), and a few numbers-based polls, that all support my assertion that Salem was better than all other non-Lake Taylor 4A South teams. My point is, I have six different sources backing me up, and they all reach their conclusions in different ways - and they're not all based on computers. All you have backing up your opinion is, "Because I say so." And yes - games are played on the field. You're assuming that Heritage, Monacan, Dinwiddie, Phoebus et al would all have beaten Salem this past season. Care to offer anything to support that assumption? All the numbers (ie Gilliams, CalPreps, etc.) and experts' (ie VaPreps) opinions are against you.
You do know that I don't have anything to do with how the playoffs are run, right? I would love to see all six classifications cross-bracket the semis - as long as there are still regional championship games. Regions that encompass 24-plus schools demand to have a champion crowned; that is an accomplishment. Also, I don't think it's fair, with many districts no longer crowning an official champion, to say to the kids in 1A through 3A - "Okay, fellas. You either win state, or you win nothing at all." Most of those schools have no realistic shot at a state title, so there should be district and regional titles to strive toward.
I'd be in favor of cutting the playoffs back to eight teams per region, and having state semis the week after the regional championships. The playoffs would take the same amount of time, we'd have regional champions, and cross-bracketing in the semis. The same as basketball used to have. It won't happen, because having losing teams continue play is unheard of in football, but that is what I would like to see.
I wouldn't worry about the North (West) managing to stay within two touchdowns of the state champs. At least, not until the South (East) can also manage to do that. Because as has been observed several times now over the past fifteen months, neither Dinwiddie nor LT were the typical 4A South team. Both were exceptional, much better than all other schools in 4A in their respective years - and that includes all the other 4A South teams. And VaPreps, MaxPreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, and Gilliam Ratings all bear that out.
This post was edited on 3/4 10:21 PM by SpartanOfYore
No problem. No hurt feelings here - but I think you knew that. You know you have nothing to back you up, so you have to throw that smoke screen up. Pretty standard message board behavior, even from the more esteemed posters.
Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. [Does that hold true for me, as well?] Thanks for helping to bolster my point. Of the six different polls that I cited, at least one - VaPreps - is based on peoples' opinions. Am I not correct in thinking that they arrive at their poll results by a vote of their people that cover high school football? If so, Rod can correct me, and I'll be happy for the correction. So, in the opinion of some knowledgeable people at VaPreps, Salem was the second-best team in 4A. That's ALL of 4A.
That's at least one opinion-based poll (Maxpreps might also be?), and a few numbers-based polls, that all support my assertion that Salem was better than all other non-Lake Taylor 4A South teams. My point is, I have six different sources backing me up, and they all reach their conclusions in different ways - and they're not all based on computers. All you have backing up your opinion is, "Because I say so." And yes - games are played on the field. You're assuming that Heritage, Monacan, Dinwiddie, Phoebus et al would all have beaten Salem this past season. Care to offer anything to support that assumption? All the numbers (ie Gilliams, CalPreps, etc.) and experts' (ie VaPreps) opinions are against you.
You do know that I don't have anything to do with how the playoffs are run, right? I would love to see all six classifications cross-bracket the semis - as long as there are still regional championship games. Regions that encompass 24-plus schools demand to have a champion crowned; that is an accomplishment. Also, I don't think it's fair, with many districts no longer crowning an official champion, to say to the kids in 1A through 3A - "Okay, fellas. You either win state, or you win nothing at all." Most of those schools have no realistic shot at a state title, so there should be district and regional titles to strive toward.
I'd be in favor of cutting the playoffs back to eight teams per region, and having state semis the week after the regional championships. The playoffs would take the same amount of time, we'd have regional champions, and cross-bracketing in the semis. The same as basketball used to have. It won't happen, because having losing teams continue play is unheard of in football, but that is what I would like to see.
I wouldn't worry about the North (West) managing to stay within two touchdowns of the state champs. At least, not until the South (East) can also manage to do that. Because as has been observed several times now over the past fifteen months, neither Dinwiddie nor LT were the typical 4A South team. Both were exceptional, much better than all other schools in 4A in their respective years - and that includes all the other 4A South teams. And VaPreps, MaxPreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, and Gilliam Ratings all bear that out.
This post was edited on 3/4 10:21 PM by SpartanOfYore
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
Actually what forms my opinion are the on field results of the last two years as well as watching football around the state for more than 50 years. To address your last statement , seems to me Monacan was within two touchdowns of LT just the week before the 41-16 final. No smokescreen there is there?. I understand you feel the assertion is old and tired and I also suspect the frustration level rises each time the west(north) can't finish the deal but, it's probably not going away until someone from the west(north) can actually get it done on the field. It could be minimized if the West AD's and powers that be were at least willing to man up and cross bracket the semis, a decision I realize you have no say in.
Actually what forms my opinion are the on field results of the last two years as well as watching football around the state for more than 50 years. To address your last statement , seems to me Monacan was within two touchdowns of LT just the week before the 41-16 final. No smokescreen there is there?. I understand you feel the assertion is old and tired and I also suspect the frustration level rises each time the west(north) can't finish the deal but, it's probably not going away until someone from the west(north) can actually get it done on the field. It could be minimized if the West AD's and powers that be were at least willing to man up and cross bracket the semis, a decision I realize you have no say in.
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
The champion coming out of the East (now South) will almost always look exactly like 2013 Dinwiddie and 2014 Lake Taylor.
You were doing really good until there.
The champion coming out of the East (now South) will almost always look exactly like 2013 Dinwiddie and 2014 Lake Taylor.
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
The champion coming out of the East (now South) will almost always look exactly like 2013 Dinwiddie and 2014 Lake Taylor.
You were doing really good until there.
The champion coming out of the East (now South) will almost always look exactly like 2013 Dinwiddie and 2014 Lake Taylor.
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
I have to agree with Rod. I know this opinion sounds conceited, and hometown type hype, but it is just the truth.
Virtually every year, the best of several teams that are on par with these two east teams from the last two years will represent the east.
If the west is hoping that the last two years were an aberration, and the east competition level will go down a notch, they are in for a lot of anguish. Will it be either Dinwiddie or LT every year? Of course not. But there are teams building that level of programs right now, as we sit here reading and writing in the ice and cold. Some will rise up, others will slip back. But the east rep will rarely be less than what you have seen.
The hope for the west is totally in their hands. They just have to look at what it takes to be at the level of some of the best east times, and adapt their programs to compete. Hey, no question Salem was a great team last year. By far, the best in the west. They got soundly beaten, and would have lost to Dinwiddie 2013 just as bad.
I don't believe there is any meaningful talent difference between the two halves of the state. I don't believe there is any meaningful difference between the quality of the coaches between the two halves of the state. I'm positive there is little difference between the community support between the two halves of the state. So, ask the question, then what is the difference?
DP
I have to agree with Rod. I know this opinion sounds conceited, and hometown type hype, but it is just the truth.
Virtually every year, the best of several teams that are on par with these two east teams from the last two years will represent the east.
If the west is hoping that the last two years were an aberration, and the east competition level will go down a notch, they are in for a lot of anguish. Will it be either Dinwiddie or LT every year? Of course not. But there are teams building that level of programs right now, as we sit here reading and writing in the ice and cold. Some will rise up, others will slip back. But the east rep will rarely be less than what you have seen.
The hope for the west is totally in their hands. They just have to look at what it takes to be at the level of some of the best east times, and adapt their programs to compete. Hey, no question Salem was a great team last year. By far, the best in the west. They got soundly beaten, and would have lost to Dinwiddie 2013 just as bad.
I don't believe there is any meaningful talent difference between the two halves of the state. I don't believe there is any meaningful difference between the quality of the coaches between the two halves of the state. I'm positive there is little difference between the community support between the two halves of the state. So, ask the question, then what is the difference?
DP
Re: Six different sources rated Salem the number two team in 4A for 2014
Well, that's sheer speculation. Maybe it's true for next year (and that remains to be seen) - but always? Guess work aside, the point is, Dinwiddie in 2013 wasn't the typical 4A South team. They were much, much better than the typical 4A South team. Granted, in that season, I'd say at least three South teams were better than Sherando. But only one - Dinwiddie - was prohibitively better. Sherando could have been competitive with all the others.
Again, Lake Taylor was nowhere near the typical 4A South team of 2014. They were way better. The big difference is, unlike Sherando the previous year, Salem was also better than all of the other 4A South teams. Yes, that's my opinion, and it is debatable. But not nearly as debatable as the opinion that says "the top four South teams were all better than Salem" - which is actually pretty outlandish. And again, all of the evidence there is - VaPreps, Maxpreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, two different Gilliam Ratings - is on my side.
Dinwiddie and Lake Taylor might end up being similar to the typical 4A state champ of the next year or two. But neither is in any way representative of the typical 4A South team.
This post was edited on 3/12 7:59 PM by SpartanOfYore
Well, that's sheer speculation. Maybe it's true for next year (and that remains to be seen) - but always? Guess work aside, the point is, Dinwiddie in 2013 wasn't the typical 4A South team. They were much, much better than the typical 4A South team. Granted, in that season, I'd say at least three South teams were better than Sherando. But only one - Dinwiddie - was prohibitively better. Sherando could have been competitive with all the others.
Again, Lake Taylor was nowhere near the typical 4A South team of 2014. They were way better. The big difference is, unlike Sherando the previous year, Salem was also better than all of the other 4A South teams. Yes, that's my opinion, and it is debatable. But not nearly as debatable as the opinion that says "the top four South teams were all better than Salem" - which is actually pretty outlandish. And again, all of the evidence there is - VaPreps, Maxpreps, CalPreps, VHSL-Reference, two different Gilliam Ratings - is on my side.
Dinwiddie and Lake Taylor might end up being similar to the typical 4A state champ of the next year or two. But neither is in any way representative of the typical 4A South team.
This post was edited on 3/12 7:59 PM by SpartanOfYore
