You make the call '16 No. 3

[White hat]

Team A runs a read-option offense and takes every snap from the shotgun.They are trailing late in the game and out of time-outs.

With 1st and 10 at the B20,

A) Team A completes a pass and the receiver is downed at the 12 but the clock keeps running so Team A rushes to the line of scrimmage and gets set. QB for A takes the snap in shotgun and spikes the ball at the A16 with 2 seconds left on the clock.

B) Team A completes a pass and the receiver is downed at the 8 and the clock is stopped to award the first down. Team A rushes to the line of scrimmage and gets set. When the referee bloes the ready for play he winds the clock. QB for A takes the snap in shotgun and spikes the ball at the A12 with 2 seconds left on the clock.

Is this legal?

When will the clock start?

 

[onlylabs]

It is not legal. QB must be under center to "clock" the ball so this is intentional grounding.

I do not think there is a run off of the clock in high school so I'd then guess mark off yardage for intentional grounding, loss of down and clock starts on referee's ready for play signal.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

It is not legal. QB must be under center to "clock" the ball so this is intentional grounding.

I do not think there is a run off of the clock in high school so I'd then guess mark off yardage for intentional grounding, loss of down and clock starts on referee's ready for play signal.

I agree.

 

[White hat]

The answer to this question is not as cut and dry as it seems.

You are correct that this is intentional grounding because to legally spike the ball (now called "clocking" the ball), the QB must be in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap, meaning he must be under center,

The clock will start on the snap. Rule 3-4-3e says the cock will start on the snap when any legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete. Intentional grounding is an illegal forward pass.

So what's the issue? I have friends who hang their hats on Rule 3-4-6 that says "When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illgally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped."

My belief is that the choice to start the clock on the ready-for-play does not apply in this circumstance because 3-4-3e is a perfectly applicable rule and 3-4-6 is used if a player lays on an opponent to chew up time, or "accidentally" tosses it 10 yards away -- any number of things that aren't spelled out as clearly as this is.

Their argument maintains that this is an illegal attempt to conserve time. I don't think so. Clocking the ball is perfectly legal, the team just did it wrong. They were penalized 5 yards from the spot of the pass, so effectively this last play has to go 9-10 more yards to score. That seems like enough of a penalty for something that would normally be legal.

 

[onlylabs]

White hat, Your explanation makes sense since it is not a dead ball foul. So it seems there is some subjectivity to how the clock could be managed though depending on the referee in charge. I think some of us (myself included) forget that on some game days and hence the often asked question to the head linesman or line judge.."how can that be called differently last week??".

 

[White hat]

Yes, there is some subjectivity. Especially in games that are not competitive. I've worked games were both coaches was the game over as soon as possible and ask for me to keep the clock running. I've also had games that were one-sided, but both teams are playing kids deep on the roster who don't play much, so I run the clock by rule and let 'em play. In these situations, the officials I know will almost always go by the wishes of the coaches.

 

[FBRef]

The answer to this question is not as cut and dry as it seems.

You are correct that this is intentional grounding because to legally spike the ball (now called "clocking" the ball), the QB must be in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap, meaning he must be under center,

The clock will start on the snap. Rule 3-4-3e says the cock will start on the snap when any legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete. Intentional grounding is an illegal forward pass.

So what's the issue? I have friends who hang their hats on Rule 3-4-6 that says "When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped."

My belief is that the choice to start the clock on the ready-for-play does not apply in this circumstance because 3-4-3e is a perfectly applicable rule and 3-4-6 is used if a player lays on an opponent to chew up time, or "accidentally" tosses it 10 yards away -- any number of things that aren't spelled out as clearly as this is.

Their argument maintains that this is an illegal attempt to conserve time. I don't think so. Clocking the ball is perfectly legal, the team just did it wrong. They were penalized 5 yards from the spot of the pass, so effectively this last play has to go 9-10 more yards to score. That seems like enough of a penalty for something that would normally be legal.

NFHS 3.4.6 Situation A
With time expiring in the second or fourth period and A behind in the score, A1 intentionally throws the ball forward to the ground in order to stop the clock. A1’s action took place: (a) immediately after receiving the snap while A1 was lined up 3 yards deep; or (b) immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap; or (c) after A1 delayed and took more than one step after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.

RULING: Illegal forward pass in (a) and (c), the clock shall be started on the ready-for-play signal. In (b), the grounding is legal and the clock remains stopped until the subsequent snap. (7-5-2d Exception)