You make the call '16 No. 9

[White hat]

A few quick hitters with an obvious theme.

1. A31 usually plays on the kickoff team but he is out of the game because of injury. When A lines up for the kickoff, A88 is one of 11 players lined up legally behind the A40 yard line. After the ready for play whistle, a coach says "Jason, you're not on kickoff." and A88 then runs off the field and enters the team box. Another coach says, "Yes he is, he's replacing Devon." Before the kick, A88 re-enters the field at the A39 yard line and participates in the play.

What do you have?

2. Team A has the ball 4th and 15 at its own 1 yard line. Punter A5 is standing next to his own endline. When the ball is snapped, A5 takes a step back and steps on the endline, but he steps forward and catches the snap without touching the endline. He punts the ball out of bounds at the A30 yard line.

What do you have?

3. A34 is running up the sideline in front of his own team. B22 is pursuing from the middle of the field, taking an angle toward the sideline. A34 takes evasive action just as B22 gets to him and B22 runs past him and out of bounds. B22 then turns and gives chase down the sideline, making a tackle at the 50 while running on the sideline.

What do you have?

4. A34 is running up the sideline in front of his own team. B22 is pursuing from the middle of the field, taking an angle toward the sideline. A34 takes evasive action just as B22 gets to him and B22 runs past him and out of bounds. B22's momentum takes him more than 2 yards out of bounds and into A's team box. He turns to run back to the field but runs into and trips over A1 who is a substitute standing in his team area.

What do you have?

5. Third and 13 from the Team A's 3 yard line. QB A11 tosses the ball to A34 who catches the toss two yards deep in the A endzone. B44 read the play and is there to meet A34, but his tackling technique is terrible and he grabs A34's facemask in a way that pulls the helmet off A34. When the helmet comes off, A34 is free of the grasp and takes off with open field in front of him, easily making it past the line to gain at the 16.

What do you have?

6. Third and 13 from the Team A's 3 yard line. QB A11 tosses the ball to A34 who catches the toss two yards deep in the A endzone. B44 read the play and is there to meet A34, but his tackling technique is terrible and he grabs A34's facemask in a way that pulls the helmet off A34. A34 fumbles and the ball bounces away, but both A34 and B44 pursue it and A34 dives on it while it is still in the endzone. What if B44 falls on it in the endzone?

What do you have?

 

[onlylabs]

1- as long as onsides and before the kick I'm saying all is good.

2- because he stepped out I'm saying cannot be the first to touch the ball regardless if he was back in when he did. I'm saying safety. Vaguely there is a rule that says something about 'as long as he establishes both feet in bounds before touching the ball' but I cannot remember where this applies so going with my first thought.

3-Cannot run out of bounds so personal foul penalty on team B

4- no penalty as long as team A player is in the team box

5- off setting penalties replay down. B-facemask and A-continuing to play once helmet comes off. I think play is supposed to be whistled dead ASAP but with A continuing to run for 18 yards becomes a penalty

6 - This is a tough one. Based on my thoughts in 5 if play is whistled dead as it should be (becomes helmet comes off) there would be no loose ball fumble. But A34 again continues to play without helmet. I'm going to say it doesn't matter who recovers the loose ball. Again off-setting personal foul penalties replay down.

 

[White hat]

OK, I thought I'd give it a while to see if anyone else would answer, but I guess not. Funny how many people yell about knowing the rules when they're in the seats.

#1. There is no foul here because the player that came off the field was not replaced, therefore he remains a player (by definition). This looks a lot like illegal substitution (IS). It would be an IS foul if a it was the 12th player who ran onto the field, took position in formation, then left. Also, if the original player was replaced, he could not come back onto the field even if a third player left to make room for him.

(This play actually happened in a game I worked some years ago and the linesman dropped a flag but did not kill the play. Good thing becasue I was able to wave off the flag.)

2. This is illelgal participation. There is no rule in high school football about being the first to touch the bal after going out of bounds. If a player on the offense or kicking team steps out of bounds on his own, he commits illegal participation when he comes back in. In this play, accepting that foul would result in a safety.

3. Illegal participation on B22. It is not illegal for B22 to go out of bounds, but it is illegal for him to make a tackle while out of bounds. 15 yards from the end of the run.

4. Illegal participation on A1. It is illegal for a non-player to hinder an opponent outside the field of play. The spot of the foul is the yardline extended to the spot where the hinderance occured

5. Obvious personal foul by B. Because the runner lost his helmet, the play is over at that moment. He was in the endzone, so the result of the play is a safety, however A will surely accept the penalty. Even though the end of the run was in the endzone, the penalty is marked off from the goal line, so A will have the ball, 3rd and 1 at the 15.

6. Again, obvious personal foul by B. In this case, A fumbled, so even though his helmet came off, the play is not automatically dead. A34, however, is prohibited from participating without a helmet. When he goes for the ball (which I believe would be the instinctive reaction) he is guilty of illegal participation. The fouls will offset and the down will be replayed.

 

[onlylabs]

Since it's just us can I ask a couple of clarification questions:

2) If a gunner on the punt return team avoids a player and goes out of bounds (but no contact to force him out..so out on his own) he basically is out of the play by rule? meaning if he comes back into the field and continues running to cover the punt that is illegal participation?

2) You mention no rule in HS about being first to touch the ball after going out of bounds. In scenario where WR is crowded out of bounds on a route (used crowded to avoid any pass interference reference) are there any stipulations before he can make a legal catch? Or is it just has to catch the ball with a foot in the playing field?

4) I'd have trouble with this one in the midst of the game. probably rare the situation arises because most of the time this time of contact is with everyone (ball carrier and defender) going out of bounds. but tough to penalize team inside the area they are required to be in during the play for being there?? also as i envision the scenario I see everyone coaches, team members, even referees following the play down field and not seeing the defender fall over anyone behind the play.

5) being nit picky here but you said in scenario that the runner that lost his helmet continued to run...so is that not illegal participation just like 6?

 

[White hat]

Since it's just us can I ask a couple of clarification questions:

2) If a gunner on the punt return team avoids a player and goes out of bounds (but no contact to force him out..so out on his own) he basically is out of the play by rule? meaning if he comes back into the field and continues running to cover the punt that is illegal participation?

If he goes out of bounds on his own, he cannot come back in and participate. Can't imagine a gunner would do that without making contact with the defender, but it's possible.

2) You mention no rule in HS about being first to touch the ball after going out of bounds. In scenario where WR is crowded out of bounds on a route (used crowded to avoid any pass interference reference) are there any stipulations before he can make a legal catch? Or is it just has to catch the ball with a foot in the playing field?

If a player is forced out, he can must come back in at earliest opportunity. If he does it's all good. If he's forced out but runs out of bounds for several yards without contact, he cannot come back in.

4) I'd have trouble with this one in the midst of the game. probably rare the situation arises because most of the time this time of contact is with everyone (ball carrier and defender) going out of bounds. but tough to penalize team inside the area they are required to be in during the play for being there?? also as i envision the scenario I see everyone coaches, team members, even referees following the play down field and not seeing the defender fall over anyone behind the play.

You're right, but that's the rule.

5) being nit picky here but you said in scenario that the runner that lost his helmet continued to run...so is that not illegal participation just like 6?

No foul because technically he kept running after the play ended.

As I said, I had the first situation in a game a few years back. As for the others, I've never seen any of them in the hundreds of games I've worked. Still, we have to be prepared for anything.

 

[onlylabs]

Thank you!

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Wow, great stuff guys. I never had the chance to post my answers, (which saved me a lot of embarrassment).

I think the most important thing I'm learning with this series is just how much instant assessment and judgement is required. For instance, the WR crowded out of bounds, how quick was quick enough to get back in bounds?

White Hat, any chance you will be working the Bluefield, Dinwiddie, Lord Botetout scrimmage at LB? Or, way too early to know?

 

[White hat]

Scrimmage schedules come out about a week before the scrimmages.