Ocean Lakes coach's suspension extended
- Thread starter VaPrepsRod
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If VHSL and the Ocean Lakes administration have any real sense/guts he needs to be fired (not suspended two more meaningless games that they will win 48-0 against non all star teams). Plus a heck of a lot more has to be looked at again about how he and the team acted in previous years. No way they won that state championship without the same kind of BS going on previously....completely nonsensical to think this type of behavior happens for the first time AFTER winning the big game.
Hes done to much for the school and his players something you wouldn't know about , as long as hes not committing crime or whatever its all good lol kids want too transfer there let them obviously its gonna keep on coming with them they see the results winning getting into college. As for Coach Ramey whose been coaching the team my former D-Line Coach at Landstown hes been doing one hell of a job glad to see him as head coach even if they were to let Coach Scott go I dont think Ocean Lakes would fall off slowly like Landstown did with Coach Beatty leaving.
I'm sorry. He was suspended for multiple reasons. Now, he has violated the terms of his suspension on multiple occasions. Much as I would regret the decision due to his contributions, this behavior cannot be tolerated. The one and only directive here is to teach kids. So teach them properly. He has to go.
Shauntclair is not even from Virginia, posts like he's from every area of the state, but the Fredericksburg area is the main one he talks about.
I have been lurking on the various high school sports sights for the last couple of years. The Ocean Lakes Recruiting saga pushed me to this posting.
Chris Scott is loved by everyone at OL but he needs some tough love by the Beach school administration. He was the coach when they had to forfeit 6 games.. I'm sure that had something to do with his initial 3 game suspension this year. His defiance at this point is strike # 3 and the discipline is just 2 more weeks..??
As a parent, the parallels to this and an over indulged teen with parents to afraid to discipline their child are too real to ignore. Progressively lighter impact on Chris Scott for each action is the wrong message for a community leader!
No public apology from him because he thinks he's smarter & likely thinks he is being picked on. Everyone at OL loves him but he's teaching his kids all the wrong messages & the Virginia Beach School Administration seems ok with that by giving him the keys right back with no clear guidelines.
Try these for RULES.
No play offs for 2015.....
Any transfer from established school zone from 8th - 12th grade for starter / Varsity players result in 1 yr delay for paticipation.
If a team exceeds (5 - 8%) of transfers, automatic disqualified from post season tournaments
Hardship applications required with review board that includes the previous school's coach, AD and principal endorsement required.
These rules will discourage the AAU / Club / Passing League team handlers that are funneling the players to whomever is their favorite coach is that year. And if a kid gets a big head & his coach feels the kid is a cancer to his team, they shouldn't be rewarded like the brat they are by transferring to the "win at all cost" power house team. Those kids graduate as brats.
Chris Scott is loved by everyone at OL but he needs some tough love by the Beach school administration. He was the coach when they had to forfeit 6 games.. I'm sure that had something to do with his initial 3 game suspension this year. His defiance at this point is strike # 3 and the discipline is just 2 more weeks..??
As a parent, the parallels to this and an over indulged teen with parents to afraid to discipline their child are too real to ignore. Progressively lighter impact on Chris Scott for each action is the wrong message for a community leader!
No public apology from him because he thinks he's smarter & likely thinks he is being picked on. Everyone at OL loves him but he's teaching his kids all the wrong messages & the Virginia Beach School Administration seems ok with that by giving him the keys right back with no clear guidelines.
Try these for RULES.
No play offs for 2015.....
Any transfer from established school zone from 8th - 12th grade for starter / Varsity players result in 1 yr delay for paticipation.
If a team exceeds (5 - 8%) of transfers, automatic disqualified from post season tournaments
Hardship applications required with review board that includes the previous school's coach, AD and principal endorsement required.
These rules will discourage the AAU / Club / Passing League team handlers that are funneling the players to whomever is their favorite coach is that year. And if a kid gets a big head & his coach feels the kid is a cancer to his team, they shouldn't be rewarded like the brat they are by transferring to the "win at all cost" power house team. Those kids graduate as brats.
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My 1st rule would be the only penalty.
I think these rules should be VHSL Transfer rules. Compared to other states they would be the toughest but may solve underlying issues that occur in every major high school sport.
The only modification I would include would be that transfers for Academic programs like IB, Governor Schools, etc would not count towards the above restrictions. If a student can handle IB rigors and sports too then they shouldn't be held back.
I think these rules should be VHSL Transfer rules. Compared to other states they would be the toughest but may solve underlying issues that occur in every major high school sport.
The only modification I would include would be that transfers for Academic programs like IB, Governor Schools, etc would not count towards the above restrictions. If a student can handle IB rigors and sports too then they shouldn't be held back.
Does this include kids moving in from out of state? Just clarifying since Ocean Lakes has a military base smack dab in the middle of their zone.
Also, I think that rule would quickly be thrown out in court.
Have been reading in the meantime about the Ocean Lakes community and their calls to their Board and Facebook website, etc to SAVE CHRIS SCOTT. Again this makes me want to puke!!!!! What I read is that he was involved in six forfeited games some years back, then violation this year, then broke the terms of the violation agreement again this year. How many chances is this guy going to get? Ocean Lakes has really drunk the kool-aid or the coach is one great master of telling people what they want to hear. Keep on doing what you are doing Ocean Lakes community because now everyone else knows that your wins are completely BS. Good job teaching those kids how to focus on the important things at Ocean Lakes.
My apologies for double posting, was not intended -sticky computer keys. And I will go back to my hole now unless we get articles of yet more wrong doing (which I suspect will happen someday). Where there is heat there is fire and there appears to be a lot of heat and fire around the OLakes program. Have fun without me. By the way,j I will root vociferously for ANY Northern Region team that plays them at states and hope against hope that somebody has some guts in that community to do something about what they are doing at Ocean Lakes. Clean up the mess, will you? I'm outta here.
There are States that have a 50 mile rule. But a hardship exception could also easily include divorces, job loss and military transfers too. In the 757 military transfers are most likely out of state & not say from Suffolk to Virginia Beach.
Can you post some links about that 50-mile rule? I'd love to know more about it and how it has been ruled constitutional
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I don't often agree with shaunty but this one I am in 100% agreement. What lesson are we teaching and what are the athletes learning?
I knew that was coming. I should have bookmarked this.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...es-to-us-high-school-transfer-rules/13779215/
Thanks,
I didn't see any state that restricted a student as long as there was a bona fide change of address.
Didn't think that anyone could institute a rule like that.
Appreciate the link.
Damn, that's crazy. What is happenin at OL? I know this stuff goes on all over the place, but coach Scott has definitely been sloppy about it. This is a bad look for the area.
An argument could be made that this is going on all over the state and that the Tidewater admins are the only one doing anything to try to stop it.
Not sure that I'd lead the charge for that side, but the argument could be made.
The first time Ocean Lakes was penalized was not the coaching staff or school fault lol you know the kid who transferred from First colonial to ocean lakes transfered was found living by himself pretty much since his father never really around much he was military. Again when First Colonial kids found that out they told there coach and first colonial waited 6 games into the season before they went on to tell officials about illegal transfer so that ocean lakes wouldn't qualify playoffs with an 0-6 record all games forfeited. Seems someone mad Ocean Lakes winning a title lol trust me haters usually come talk bad about OL usually other coaches who lost there starting player to another team.
The problem definitely is not unique to tidewater or even Virginia. But Ocean Lakes is making National High School Football news wires. I'm not sure how the number came out that nearly 42% of their roster is made up of transfers, but if even 1/2 that number was reality, there's a good chance OL is far outside the norm.
Maybe the solution is to track the number of transfers & create an automatic probation then exclusion from the playoffs once a team exceeds 2 standard deviations above the norm for their school district?
What is the plan for Virginia Beach School Administration and how are things going to be corrected? Without clear guidelines, nothing changes.
While I'm not privy to the future plans, I again could see an argument being made that the Virginia Beach School Administration has taken the steps available to them to correct the issue.
They have levied punishment three times on Ocean Lakes in the last five years. Of course, one could argue that the punishments are not having the desired effect, but it is incorrect to say that they have done nothing about it.
In fact, they may have done more about recruiting than any other district in the state at this point. That also may not be true as there may be several districts in the state policing it and getting things right before they become a known problem. Those reports don't make newspapers though.
I think this is being done in the Charlottesville, Lynchburg, Roanoke, and far SW Virginia areas. The only difference is that people are not being caught with their hand in the cookie jar like Ocean Lakes was.
There is not a single area in the state where I have traveled that someone hasn't told me that "ABC School cheats because they recruit". Took less than 10 minutes after meeting him for a fan to say it to me in SWVA last weekend.
According to some NoVa people I speak with, there is a school up there who averages anywhere between 5-10 transfers per year.
There was a fan of a Richmond school who wanted to fight me because I kept writing stories about the "cheating" program down the road.
Anyone claiming that their area does it "the right way" doesn't know enough about what happens in their neighborhoods, in my opinion.
Are we talking impact transfers are just a player transferring. I know one high school that gets maybe one or two where the player comes from another state or they went to a private school but does live within the high school zone and decided to no longer attend the private school. But not an impact player from a local high school.
Again the "apologies" are coming out.....nobody doubts that this stuff goes on across the state in a low burn way. But if anyone thinks that the vast majority of schools do anything similar to what is going on at Ocean Lakes (major coordination and recruiting) you are fooling yourself!
I'm actually always stunned how the penalties are different when a kid messes up than when an adult messes up. A kid "forgets" to fill out some paper work because he's a foreign exchange student and the school forfeits every game he plays in, even if only for one play on extra point.
An adult violates a VHSL rule and it never results in forfeits and rarely in any punishment at all. I would recruit away if I were a VHSL coach after this. If the worst that happens to my program is that I get a three game suspension, heck, that's worth the risk. Not recruiting would be as stupid as a basketball team not fouling down by 1 with 10 seconds left because fouling is against the rules.
If they knew for six weeks and didn't report it, then First Colonial would be in trouble. You have seven days once made aware of a violation to report it. I know of two cases where forfeits were overturned when the reporting team held on to the information when they could have shared it after a week one loss and fixed everything. I guess it depends on who is sitting on your appeals committee. The goal of the rules is not for teams to have to forfeit; the goal of the rules is to have everyone in compliance so no one has to forfeit.
I know my district handles this stuff much more quietly. I don't think the penalties are near severe enough.
I agree..."The 'I wasn't the only one speeding, officer' argument" doesn't hold any water with me. While I don't think recruiting is limited to the Beach District, I also don't think the majority of schools are doing it. I coached at several schools and I never knew of anyone in any sport who was recruiting kids. Regardless of how many people do it, if you catch someone then the penalty should be strong enough to deter the action in the future (otherwise, just get rid of the rules about recruiting--which is what I would do). That means a post-season ban. I guarantee you, that if you told the coaches and school that if you are caught recruiting you sit out the playoffs, it would change.
As I have said a million times before, however, recruiting is hard to prove, and I don't blame a kid for wanting to go to a school he thinks is the best fit for him.
As a coach I'd say, "Put your all-star team on the field, we'll see what we can do against you."
Virginia Beach can use this issue as an opportunity to lead the area, state, or even the other states or, IF, Virginia Beach School Administration wants an ALL Star Type Team to compete with national HS Football powerhouse teams, then it appears they on the right track. The current rules clearly don't work.
Stop trying to prove recruiting by 1 coach when there are well oiled machines that involve multiple levels of participation for it to work. If for some reason Chris Scott no longer coached Ocean Lakes, the system is still in place to keep rolling. Just build a strong deterrence that discourages the implementation of their system.
To build on an earlier posting, track transfers. By establishing a statistical mean score of transfers over time, the outliers will emerge. If a 2 standard deviation occurs, then the team(s) that lost players shifts the statistical curve to the left revealing the cheater. THEN, utilize the transfer score within the Power Rating system for the play-offs. By pulling down the abusing teams scores, you'll get the coach's attention. For chronic abusers, give specific penalties, maybe 1/2 of the seasons games forfeiture the 1st level & 2 yr ban if they can't correct the problem. After enough time, the current transfer system will break down of there is no motivation to keep it up & going.
A few states have recently put in "past link" rules, where if a transfer student has a prior link to a coach at their new school, they automatically have to sit, even if they legit moved into the new district. These are mostly aimed at basketball players transferring to schools where their AAU/club coaches or trainers are on the coaching staff.
Here's the new Indiana rule, for example:
20-2 Past Link
a. A transfer student who has a Past Link with a Receiving School to which the student transfers shall be ineligible at that Receiving School for Three Hundred Sixty-Five (365) days following the student’s enrollment at the Receiving School.
b. A Past Link means that during the Twelve (12) months period prior to enrolling at the Receiving School, any of the following occurred:
(1.) The transfer student attended an open gym at the Receiving School,
(2.) The transfer student played on a summer or non-school sports (e.g. AAU) team which had a coach, manager or trainer who (1) was a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School at the time the transfer student enrolled at the Receiving School, or (2) had been a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School anytime during the Twelve (12) month period prior to the student’s enrollment at the Receiving School, or (3) became a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School anytime during the Ninety (90) day period after the student’s enrollment at the Receiving School.
(3.) The transfer student received instruction from a coach, manager or trainer who (1) was a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School at the time the transfer student enrolled at the Receiving School, or (2) had been a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School anytime during the Twelve (12) month period prior to the student’s enrollment at the Receiving School, or (3) became a coach, manager or trainer at the Receiving School anytime during the Ninety (90) day period after the student’s enrollment at the Receiving School.
Elsewhere in the rules they reserve the right to declare ineligible students who moved into new districts if the new residence was selected for "primary athletic reasons".
No idea if any of this is enforceable if someone decides to challenge it in court.
I'm glad I took a couple of Statistics classes, or I'd have no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry, I am kinda skewed toward working with numbers everyday. To help explain for a refresher (IF Needed)
If I remember things correctly, 2 (SD)standard deviations = 95% percent of all the samples are within a normal distribution bell curve. 3 (SD) standard deviations = almost 99.8% fit within the distribution. Maybe the number would be more like 2.5 SD (I think is 98% within the distribution). But the concept is the same, Identify the outlier in an objective, non-biased manner & decide how to deal with it.
Another way to think of this solution is to put all the school's coaches on the mid court line in the gym & ask everyone to take a step sideways for every transfer to the Right. To the Left if they actually lost transfers. Most schools would stop after only a few steps, with the most clustered in the middle. You would be able to see each year that most coaches only went so far. But the coach that keeps having to walk out into the right side of the gym will separate away from the group. OR IF every coach only takes 2 steps & 1 coach only takes a couple more steps, then no harm unless that same coach is always exceeding the norm. A pattern can be recognized and the Administrator can then work with that coach to correct the problem. Done & Done.
