Between Wilson and Richlands yesterday. Officials were absolutely horrible in the game. Really just one official who seemed very flag happy
26 penalties for 251 yards
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I couldn't find a seat on the Richlands side, so I had to watch from the fence. I certainly didn't see that many penalties. There were an awful lot of personal fouls and I never saw one. I did see a Wilson player give a throat slashing sign to the Richlands fans, but that wasn't called.
I'd love to see film on this game, because I swear Richlands was cheated out of a third down opportunity. A member of the chain crew advanced it from 2nd to 3rd prior to the completion of the 2nd down play (before the line judge's signal) and when the referee signaled the next down he saw the three and signaled 4th down. At least that's the way I remember seeing it. Having worked on a chain gang before, you never change the marker without the signal from the officials, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
I'd love to see film on this game, because I swear Richlands was cheated out of a third down opportunity. A member of the chain crew advanced it from 2nd to 3rd prior to the completion of the 2nd down play (before the line judge's signal) and when the referee signaled the next down he saw the three and signaled 4th down. At least that's the way I remember seeing it. Having worked on a chain gang before, you never change the marker without the signal from the officials, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
Every playoff game I saw had one ref who was flag happy. These flag happy guys should not be assigned playoff games.
I believe the one you are referring to was after the second down play there was a dead ball personal foul penalty, they never changed the down after the play like it was a repeat the down penalty, but it wasn't it was a dead ball unsportsmanlike personal foul penalty. We were screaming about it on the sideline and after the next play the side judge went in and corrected it with the umpire.
One reason I used to really love the playoffs was the referees "let 'em play." Not anymore. The referees got to the show and they want to be seen. The increase in penalties in high school football really has made the game a lot harder to watch. The rules committees are still going the wrong way with this stuff. I don't think 26 for 251 is to far above the norm for playoff games this year. Just too many flags and they don't have to have a conference after every illegal shift do they? Throw the flag, mark it off, and let's go.
Makes me think of the Parry McCluer-Craig County game earlier this year. Now, I'm just using PM as an example, I'm sure we can all think of many more examples of the like...
PM got called for no less than 9 holds in that game, the week before? Zero. The week after? One. I don't think they had nine holding calls against them combined for the rest of the year either.
Now I don't think that that is just a coincidence. It's called ticky tack officiating. Oh and go figure, the game got out of hand with personal fouls from both sides. The refs could call "hold" after "hold" after "hold", but couldn't keep control of the game.
This type of officiating makes the game more dangerous IMO.
PM got called for no less than 9 holds in that game, the week before? Zero. The week after? One. I don't think they had nine holding calls against them combined for the rest of the year either.
Now I don't think that that is just a coincidence. It's called ticky tack officiating. Oh and go figure, the game got out of hand with personal fouls from both sides. The refs could call "hold" after "hold" after "hold", but couldn't keep control of the game.
This type of officiating makes the game more dangerous IMO.
I think both teams were ready to hit the refs before they wanted to get out of hand with each other. There was actually no chipiness in the game at all. Just a lot of yelling and cluelessness towards calls
Holding
Holding should not be called unless the hold had a direct effect on the play. If hold was 30 yards from the ball and 20 yards behind the play, keep flag tucked away. Same with block in the back on big plays, if it's 40 yards behind the ball, don't call it unless it was a flagrant foul/block.
I saw a play in the Salem-GW game or AltaVista-PM game in which a player reached out with his hand to try to hold and missed grabbing the player, the flag still was thrown. No hold ever took place.
Holding should not be called unless the hold had a direct effect on the play. If hold was 30 yards from the ball and 20 yards behind the play, keep flag tucked away. Same with block in the back on big plays, if it's 40 yards behind the ball, don't call it unless it was a flagrant foul/block.
I saw a play in the Salem-GW game or AltaVista-PM game in which a player reached out with his hand to try to hold and missed grabbing the player, the flag still was thrown. No hold ever took place.
Re: Holding
Good post! I feel the same way with the bolded text, I hate seeing those because they really don't impact the play, but also because it's a pretty bonehead mistake to make as a player... Just not smart at all.
Ah, no hate for Gap.
I had only Riverheads in mind when I said that lol.. more specifically their head coach.
I do not like how they have magically dropped enrollment by about 75 students over the last few years and fall right on the 475 mark.. coincidence? I doubt it.
Not to say Wikipedia is the end all, know all.. but look at their enrollment according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverheads_High_School
This post was edited on 12/10 1:36 PM by mmqp
I had only Riverheads in mind when I said that lol.. more specifically their head coach.
I do not like how they have magically dropped enrollment by about 75 students over the last few years and fall right on the 475 mark.. coincidence? I doubt it.
Not to say Wikipedia is the end all, know all.. but look at their enrollment according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverheads_High_School
This post was edited on 12/10 1:36 PM by mmqp
Re: Holding
Agreed. I get so tired of seeing punt return and kick returns called back for some ticky tack call. Unless it's blatant and, like you said, affects the play they need to let it go.
It's literally to the point where 9 out of every 10 punt returns gets called back. You're better off in many cases to just let the ball bounce and die. Or call a fair catch.
Agreed. I get so tired of seeing punt return and kick returns called back for some ticky tack call. Unless it's blatant and, like you said, affects the play they need to let it go.
It's literally to the point where 9 out of every 10 punt returns gets called back. You're better off in many cases to just let the ball bounce and die. Or call a fair catch.
Re: Holding
So according to this tired old record that you have been playing for years, whenever it suits him, Coach Casto himself personally sends in an enrollment figure of 475 or less just so he can compete exactly where he wants to and play exactly who he wants to.
Can't you see how absurd that is? If he had that kind of power, I am sure he would be using it for something greater than high school football.
So he beat your team a number of times.......get over it!
So according to this tired old record that you have been playing for years, whenever it suits him, Coach Casto himself personally sends in an enrollment figure of 475 or less just so he can compete exactly where he wants to and play exactly who he wants to.
Can't you see how absurd that is? If he had that kind of power, I am sure he would be using it for something greater than high school football.
So he beat your team a number of times.......get over it!
I found that enrollment number a little fishy as well...
In regards to their HC: I had always heard that when his son graduated, he would step down and being that his son will graduate this spring, I am curious to see what his future holds.
I would have liked to have seen your Blues matchup with Riverheads this year... Would have been a great game and I think PM may have even won it.
Yea, it seems a little too...umm...convenient.
Now I have a theory about what was really going on there, and the same could probably be said for a lot of schools. Perhaps for years they were inflating their numbers to get more funding. Notice that for years and years you could have 600 or more students and still be considered D1 in Region B. Now, inflating numbers would seem to be illegal to me?? But I don't know if it is or not. Notice that only in the last few years has Riverheads enrollment started dropping. I predicted in 2010 that that would start happening. You can vouch for whether that area really is shrinking in population or not... I have a few other schools zeroed in that were possibly doing the same.
Longtimer, if you're so sure that the numbers aren't and have never been fudged please feel free to explain how they've dropped that many students in the last few years?
And the old PM argument. Yes you did beat us quite a few times. Congrats. It took us going through absolutely the worst decade of football in our history and your greatest decade of football in your history for all of that to happen. Once again, congratulations.
My question is this.. where was Riverheads when PM was kicking a.. and taking names in the 80's?? Seems yall dropped us like a hot potato real quick. And unlike Riverheads, PM buffed their schedules up during that time: Giles, Northside (AAA at the time), Amherst (weak AAA during that time), Alleghany (surprisingly strong during that time), Powell Valley, Drewry Mason, Fluvanna (strong at that time)..the list goes on. PM has never and will never back down from anyone. It's taken Riverheads 52 years to finally schedule R.E. Lee..and only after the Leemen are weak mind you.
This post was edited on 12/10 3:05 PM by mmqp
Now I have a theory about what was really going on there, and the same could probably be said for a lot of schools. Perhaps for years they were inflating their numbers to get more funding. Notice that for years and years you could have 600 or more students and still be considered D1 in Region B. Now, inflating numbers would seem to be illegal to me?? But I don't know if it is or not. Notice that only in the last few years has Riverheads enrollment started dropping. I predicted in 2010 that that would start happening. You can vouch for whether that area really is shrinking in population or not... I have a few other schools zeroed in that were possibly doing the same.
Longtimer, if you're so sure that the numbers aren't and have never been fudged please feel free to explain how they've dropped that many students in the last few years?
And the old PM argument. Yes you did beat us quite a few times. Congrats. It took us going through absolutely the worst decade of football in our history and your greatest decade of football in your history for all of that to happen. Once again, congratulations.
My question is this.. where was Riverheads when PM was kicking a.. and taking names in the 80's?? Seems yall dropped us like a hot potato real quick. And unlike Riverheads, PM buffed their schedules up during that time: Giles, Northside (AAA at the time), Amherst (weak AAA during that time), Alleghany (surprisingly strong during that time), Powell Valley, Drewry Mason, Fluvanna (strong at that time)..the list goes on. PM has never and will never back down from anyone. It's taken Riverheads 52 years to finally schedule R.E. Lee..and only after the Leemen are weak mind you.
This post was edited on 12/10 3:05 PM by mmqp
I don't know when I have ever seen anyone ramble and change from one topic to another the way you do. First you accuse Casto of fudging the enrollment figures, which is ridiculous. Not only that, but you did so within a thread that was about the officiating at the Wilson game! Then you go off into this scheduling business.
I do not KNOW the answers to any of your questions, for the simple reason that I am not in a position to know them, any more than you are. The only thing I do know is that you come on here over and over again with the same nonsense and it is only because we held the upper hand on you for a while and you couldn't handle it. Do you hate every school that has beaten you over the years? If so, that is a lot of hate built up.
With us dropping down next year, for whatever the reasons might be, chances are we will meet again on the football field during the playoffs once in a while. Then at least you will have something tangible to comment on as opposed to all these figments in your imagination.
I do not KNOW the answers to any of your questions, for the simple reason that I am not in a position to know them, any more than you are. The only thing I do know is that you come on here over and over again with the same nonsense and it is only because we held the upper hand on you for a while and you couldn't handle it. Do you hate every school that has beaten you over the years? If so, that is a lot of hate built up.
With us dropping down next year, for whatever the reasons might be, chances are we will meet again on the football field during the playoffs once in a while. Then at least you will have something tangible to comment on as opposed to all these figments in your imagination.
MMPQ Enrollment and Wikipedia
Not sure what a few years means but anyway Riverheads enrollment in 2011 was 500, 2012 was 519, 2013 was 478 and my source was the Virginia Department of Education although there records may appear a little sketchy as opposed to Wikipedia.
In 2010 Parry McCluers #s were 340 and then they have dropped all the way to 324. Looks pretty fishy to me. Is there an enrollment conspiracy in Buena Vista as well?
Our kids do graduate at Riverheads from time to time and our enrollment numbers do change up and down as most areas do, except maybe Buena Vista which looks the same as it did 30 years ago.
Not sure what a few years means but anyway Riverheads enrollment in 2011 was 500, 2012 was 519, 2013 was 478 and my source was the Virginia Department of Education although there records may appear a little sketchy as opposed to Wikipedia.
In 2010 Parry McCluers #s were 340 and then they have dropped all the way to 324. Looks pretty fishy to me. Is there an enrollment conspiracy in Buena Vista as well?
Our kids do graduate at Riverheads from time to time and our enrollment numbers do change up and down as most areas do, except maybe Buena Vista which looks the same as it did 30 years ago.
I would watch calling for preaching on enrollment or Wilson will likely be in 3A. Almost 600 in the middle school in just 3 classes(6th-8th graders). I have heard all these arguments about enrollment numbers for years. Play who is on ur freaking schedule and deal with outcome. The Lee tk is also silly cause there are 3 other area teams that wouldn't schedule them either. If having Riveheads in ur mouth all the time makes u feel good, keep on talking. We all know who the center of the football universe has been in Augusta county for a decade and a half. Arguments against RHS makes some strange bedfellows, a Wilson an PM fan. Don't hate appreciate.
mmqp
I had hoped to get a chance to see Ryheem play this year by didn't get a chance. That said, with all ur trash talking I hope his little brother is as good or u will be back to where u were 3 years ago. Fortunately PM moves to 1A West next yr and we will be in 1A East so if we are both good enough we can hash out all this hostility in the playoffs. And u bringing up scheduling all the while u have a private catholic school cost y'all VHSL points. Great going 10-0 but maybe u should get ur scheduling straight before u worry about who someone else is playing.
I had hoped to get a chance to see Ryheem play this year by didn't get a chance. That said, with all ur trash talking I hope his little brother is as good or u will be back to where u were 3 years ago. Fortunately PM moves to 1A West next yr and we will be in 1A East so if we are both good enough we can hash out all this hostility in the playoffs. And u bringing up scheduling all the while u have a private catholic school cost y'all VHSL points. Great going 10-0 but maybe u should get ur scheduling straight before u worry about who someone else is playing.
I wish the Riverheads/RE Lee game had been on the schedule for the last decade and a half plus some... Would have been some great games! RE Lee isn't fielding the same teams now that they did in the past but hopefully they will find their stride again soon. In other Augusta County football action, I hope Stuarts Draft and Buffalo Gap get back to their winning ways. Just imagine if Riverheads, Wilson and Waynesboro stay on this track, and if Lee/Draft/Gap can get back to their winning ways that they had say 5-10years ago... Augusta County football would be phenomenal week in and out.
Hey mmqp, Parry McCluer has 5 state championships (in football) in the schools history right? Did they absorb any of the championships of the other schools in the area that consolidated (like RE Lee did with Booker T) or did all of those old stats from Natural Bridge and Lexington go to Rockbridge (or just get lost in the history books as so many seem to do)?
This post was edited on 12/11 3:10 PM by Keith_Stone33
Hey mmqp, Parry McCluer has 5 state championships (in football) in the schools history right? Did they absorb any of the championships of the other schools in the area that consolidated (like RE Lee did with Booker T) or did all of those old stats from Natural Bridge and Lexington go to Rockbridge (or just get lost in the history books as so many seem to do)?
This post was edited on 12/11 3:10 PM by Keith_Stone33
Re: mmqp
Playing Roanoke Catholic actually benefited them more than if they were to have played Nelson Co, based off of the power points.
Re: mmqp
Ok, so u divide their points by 9 instead of 10. Did they have enough points to earn home field through out? And since u decided to chime in, I know u read P Hites article about the Lee/RHS scheduling deal. I wish they would have played for years as well but it wasn't meant to be until now. I say bravo and if Lee can get on track and become good again all the better. I for one am not all that worried about who we play. You have to win against the teams you play period. Playoffs are where the the better teams separate themselves. Wilson and Glenvar have done that this year. I wish all these fans of other schools could see the splinter in there own eye before pointing out the ones we have in ours.
Ok, so u divide their points by 9 instead of 10. Did they have enough points to earn home field through out? And since u decided to chime in, I know u read P Hites article about the Lee/RHS scheduling deal. I wish they would have played for years as well but it wasn't meant to be until now. I say bravo and if Lee can get on track and become good again all the better. I for one am not all that worried about who we play. You have to win against the teams you play period. Playoffs are where the the better teams separate themselves. Wilson and Glenvar have done that this year. I wish all these fans of other schools could see the splinter in there own eye before pointing out the ones we have in ours.
Re: mmqp
No home field for them, I think they only got 1 home game in the playoffs and they very well could have been the number 2 team in 1A, I wouldn't put them any lower than 3... The Pioneer was way down this year so that hurt their power points as well.
As for the scheduling ordeal, I'm just glad they are playing now!
No home field for them, I think they only got 1 home game in the playoffs and they very well could have been the number 2 team in 1A, I wouldn't put them any lower than 3... The Pioneer was way down this year so that hurt their power points as well.
As for the scheduling ordeal, I'm just glad they are playing now!
Re: Holding
Really WIKI. That's your source? Any free person can write a wiki page. It is MADD by people like you and me. Not very credible.
Really WIKI. That's your source? Any free person can write a wiki page. It is MADD by people like you and me. Not very credible.
They schedule and enrollment is your best argument. No wonder you ended you season with a loss. And now reality sinks in that your ONE good player is gone, and your headed to the basement again. And since you have free time you come here and Whine. Youguys keep worrying about the schedule and head counting, and we will worry about football and graduating student. And we will see where we both end up.
Re: mmqp
Maybe you should have read some of my posts from a few weeks back where I was critical of us playing Roanoke Catholic.
But as far as scheduling goes.. let me know when you guys are willing to put a school the size of Greenbrier East on your schedule or the size of Rockbridge. It wasnt our faults that Rockbridge bottomed out the last couple of years.
Maybe now that Harrisonburg sucks you guys will be brave enough to pick them up
Maybe you should have read some of my posts from a few weeks back where I was critical of us playing Roanoke Catholic.
But as far as scheduling goes.. let me know when you guys are willing to put a school the size of Greenbrier East on your schedule or the size of Rockbridge. It wasnt our faults that Rockbridge bottomed out the last couple of years.
Maybe now that Harrisonburg sucks you guys will be brave enough to pick them up
All the students from those 3 schools went to the consolidated Rockbridge High School. So PM didnt absorb anything.
Not that any of the schools other than Lexington won at much anyway. Natural Bridge had a little success in football and basketball. Rockbridge was terrible at everything except for baseball IIRC. Lexington had the one state football title in 1988 and that was about it. They had some very dominant teams in the early 70's. I think the history of those schools lives on in memory more than anything else.
I dont believe the segregated school, Lylburn Downing, won anything much either. It's very difficult to find info on them.
Not that any of the schools other than Lexington won at much anyway. Natural Bridge had a little success in football and basketball. Rockbridge was terrible at everything except for baseball IIRC. Lexington had the one state football title in 1988 and that was about it. They had some very dominant teams in the early 70's. I think the history of those schools lives on in memory more than anything else.
I dont believe the segregated school, Lylburn Downing, won anything much either. It's very difficult to find info on them.
I wish there was a way we could see all of the record/stats/ from each school's past. Unfortunately keeping those old records wasnt a priority for the folks in charge back then... I tried to get some "ancient" game films and stats from RE Lee and was told damn near everything was "lost" when they switched from Old Lee High to John Lewis (New Lee High). Pissed me off to no end, because that stuff is likely in a landfill somewhere.
rwkeith33@gmail.com
Whatever you have from the old RE Lee teams would be appreciated! I am also interested to see what Stuarts Draft has had over the years as well if you have anything on them from the old days
Whatever you have from the old RE Lee teams would be appreciated! I am also interested to see what Stuarts Draft has had over the years as well if you have anything on them from the old days
No problem, I will have both schools info to you by the end of the weekend. I'm in BV right now and went off and forgot my external hard drive in Fairfax.
I have pretty much everything for Stuarts Draft, maybe missing one or two scores at them most since 1970. R.E. Lee back to the 1920's, I know I'm missing some stuff from the 30's, maybe 40's as well..just trying to remember off the top of my head here.
You know they had the longest losing streak in the state for the longest time, I think Gretna was the team that broke that record.
I have pretty much everything for Stuarts Draft, maybe missing one or two scores at them most since 1970. R.E. Lee back to the 1920's, I know I'm missing some stuff from the 30's, maybe 40's as well..just trying to remember off the top of my head here.
You know they had the longest losing streak in the state for the longest time, I think Gretna was the team that broke that record.
