Very good player, but I'm seeing on multiple occasions recently it being slipped in that Salem lost the game minus their best player or Coleman Fox wasn't healthy. So I guess what you are tying to say is Coleman Fox would have just won you the game if he was healthy? The Womack kid did very well, but he's not Coleman huh? Sorry to tell you injuries are a part of the game and I know all about it as we lost our all state qb for the season 3 plays into the season!! Next man up and if I do believe your next man did very well when he stepped up.
Coleman Fox
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True. And we had others who were injured as well...some of whom did not tell others about their injuries...top lineman with hurt shoulder, top lineman right next to him with hurt wrist, Coleman virtually out, our all-state center...out during the game.
And even so, Lake Taylor had a brilliant team, and I doubt the outcome would have been different...perhaps closer in score. We certainly would have done better if everyone felt up to par. Coleman Fox can be a weapon, especially at full speed. But the chips fell where they did, and so it is.
And even so, Lake Taylor had a brilliant team, and I doubt the outcome would have been different...perhaps closer in score. We certainly would have done better if everyone felt up to par. Coleman Fox can be a weapon, especially at full speed. But the chips fell where they did, and so it is.
By that game EVERYONE was beat up. Nhyre had an ankle injury, Poole practiced limited all season with small injuries, and a couple other kids were banged up its just football. Injuries occur, and thanks for your insight I just keep seeing this fact slipped in there by people and thats unfortunate because I tries to cheapen the game that was played.
No all I see is in multiple threads the Coleman Fox injury keep being brought up. So instead of replying in multiple threads I made one. SMH
Odd post by devils. Salem suffered the same fate as every other team LT faced. A loss is a loss. Lt was not the most athletic or fast team in 4A this year. They were well coached and the players were dedicated to winning states after coming up short last year. Most fans expect 757 to be high flying speed everywhere spread option offense. On the contrary LT won states because they play under center smash mouth football. The veer option is extremely difficult to prepare for in 4 days. Ask the rest of LT opponents this year. They made every team get out of their comfort zone on Offense and Defense. LT was very patient and had a QB that realized early in game he was untouchable. The ability to extend the belly dive and draw in both the DE and LB and rip the ball away and move down the field was amazing. Defensively they were a disciplined 11 in the box steel curtain that once again all LT opponents had trouble against. Salem did what Salem likes to do and made zero adjustments. One of the reasons I made the trip to watch this game was to see Fox... I was disappointed that Fox couldn't play offense. He did have like 2000 yards total offense and 20 some TDs. That is what most people have expressed. You are the one who has made further assumptions about the outcome.
First, let me stress that I am of the opinion that Lake Taylor is the better team - not just "better that day", but better, period. Assuming both squads at full strength, let's do the "if they played ten times" thing. If LT played well each time, I doubt that Salem would win even one time out of ten meetings.
Next, allow me to offer a correction. The number two tailback, and Fox's replacement, was #28, Donte Clayborne. Davonta Womack, #2, is a wide receiver/corner back, who is a very good player in his own right.
And no - speaking strictly in football terms, Clayborne is not Coleman Fox, in any way, shape, or form. Clayborne is a great kid, and Salem is lucky to have him. He'd probably start for most of the 4A teams in the state. But Fox can just do things that Clayborne can't. Hence, the offer to play running back at a Division 1 school. As has been noted many times, Salem doesn't produce much D1 talent. The school's been open nearly forty years, and one doesn't need all ten fingers to count our D1 recruits. Having seen every varsity game both of them have played, I can assure you that Fox is a much superior offensive player than Clayborne. And again - that's not a knock on Clayborne. It's just that Coleman Fox is probably the best offensive player in the history of the school. The only other running back that enters the conversation is Marcus Parker, but Parker wasn't the receiver that Fox is.
So, my point is: you don't lose the best offensive player (and a darn good one on the defensive side of the ball) a school's ever had and still have the same team. People who only saw Salem play in Lynchburg this year didn't see the real Salem team. How do you lose a player like that, and still say "he wouldn't have made any difference?" You can't say that, unless you're somehow impaired. A healthy Fox wouldn't have made all the difference, but he sure would have made a significant difference in both the flow of the game, and the final margin. If Clayborne was able to run for about 140 yards, what might Fox have done? And that doesn't even take into account his capabilities as a receiver and punt returner. We probably wouldn't be reading all this endless bullsh*t about "the North cant' close the gap", "the top six teams in the South are better than the best team in the North", etc., etc., etc. This wasn't like 2013, when a toothless Sherando team was completely outclassed by Dinwiddie.
Yes, we all know injuries are part of the game. Having watched football longer than you have, I don't need you to tell me that. But the "next man up" stuff doesn't fly in high school, where you have to play the cards you're dealt, personnel-wise. If you're talking about a Fox at a school like Salem, there's going to be a big dropoff. We don't have three more D1-level talents waiting in the cupboard. And no, that's not a coaching failing. We just don't have that kind of talent base, and we never will. At a certain point, hard work, attitude, and technique will only get you so far.
So, kudos to LT. Clearly the best team in 4A, and one of the very best in all the state. But can we all - and you, in particular - quit pretending that the game and score would have been the same if Fox had been full strength? As I said at the beginning, either way, LT wins (barring a rash of Titan turnovers), so it's all moot, anyway.
Next, allow me to offer a correction. The number two tailback, and Fox's replacement, was #28, Donte Clayborne. Davonta Womack, #2, is a wide receiver/corner back, who is a very good player in his own right.
And no - speaking strictly in football terms, Clayborne is not Coleman Fox, in any way, shape, or form. Clayborne is a great kid, and Salem is lucky to have him. He'd probably start for most of the 4A teams in the state. But Fox can just do things that Clayborne can't. Hence, the offer to play running back at a Division 1 school. As has been noted many times, Salem doesn't produce much D1 talent. The school's been open nearly forty years, and one doesn't need all ten fingers to count our D1 recruits. Having seen every varsity game both of them have played, I can assure you that Fox is a much superior offensive player than Clayborne. And again - that's not a knock on Clayborne. It's just that Coleman Fox is probably the best offensive player in the history of the school. The only other running back that enters the conversation is Marcus Parker, but Parker wasn't the receiver that Fox is.
So, my point is: you don't lose the best offensive player (and a darn good one on the defensive side of the ball) a school's ever had and still have the same team. People who only saw Salem play in Lynchburg this year didn't see the real Salem team. How do you lose a player like that, and still say "he wouldn't have made any difference?" You can't say that, unless you're somehow impaired. A healthy Fox wouldn't have made all the difference, but he sure would have made a significant difference in both the flow of the game, and the final margin. If Clayborne was able to run for about 140 yards, what might Fox have done? And that doesn't even take into account his capabilities as a receiver and punt returner. We probably wouldn't be reading all this endless bullsh*t about "the North cant' close the gap", "the top six teams in the South are better than the best team in the North", etc., etc., etc. This wasn't like 2013, when a toothless Sherando team was completely outclassed by Dinwiddie.
Yes, we all know injuries are part of the game. Having watched football longer than you have, I don't need you to tell me that. But the "next man up" stuff doesn't fly in high school, where you have to play the cards you're dealt, personnel-wise. If you're talking about a Fox at a school like Salem, there's going to be a big dropoff. We don't have three more D1-level talents waiting in the cupboard. And no, that's not a coaching failing. We just don't have that kind of talent base, and we never will. At a certain point, hard work, attitude, and technique will only get you so far.
So, kudos to LT. Clearly the best team in 4A, and one of the very best in all the state. But can we all - and you, in particular - quit pretending that the game and score would have been the same if Fox had been full strength? As I said at the beginning, either way, LT wins (barring a rash of Titan turnovers), so it's all moot, anyway.
Not an odd post at all. I just keep seeing Fox's health keeps coming up and its like why? He wasn't a 100% enough to play offense he did get a carry and play some WR, but he was healthy enough to play every defensive rep? Yes we won the game and the game is over and done, but people keep referencing Fox's injury for what reason. I wouldn't have written my original pot if I didn't keep seeing it.
My mistake on the name. I don't know why I typed Womack. I watched every Salem game all year and saw Fox getting to the next level running to daylight because the offensive line blew people off the ball. I saw Fox lining up in the slot and running simple routes really a crossing route and a deep out and a lot of times the db's were falling asleep looking in the backfield and losing sight of him. I liken that more to the execution of your offense then Fox's superior route running or whatever. He was a good football player for you guys, but he wasn't even getting touched on a lot of runs. The only game I saw him get hit was against that toothless Sherando team. With injuries it has to be next man up do you just close up shop when one player goes down? What is the Salem program going to do since Fox is graduating? Seem like he's the whole program can't possibly replace the greatest player ever, or does the next man have to step up and be ready to play?
This post was edited on 1/2 1:24 PM by DEVILSLB99
This post was edited on 1/2 1:24 PM by DEVILSLB99
Fair. But I think your effort now needs to get VHSL to cross bracket final 4. People need to stop saying it will never happen that's BS...keep pressing the issue, get creative on financial concerns of the VHSL. Monacan travels to Salem and Liberty travels to LT. Cost of travel is not an argument. The north teams travel 2-4 hours for all playoff rounds. Only asking the south to travel for semi finals. It should not matter if LT plays Monacan in Lynchburg and not many people show up... It's the greatest game ever played it deserves the 2 best teams!
Absolutely on the money. I put a post on the board at the start of the playoffs and said injuries could play a big part at the high school level. Fox on offense would have helped Salem and if it was a much closer game it probably would have made the difference. Pulaski Co was the 10th rated HS team in the nation in 1993. We lost to Annanadale by 7 on a day when our most valuable player (Eric Webb- Temple) did not play. Also our best DB (Tim Davis- Boston college) did not play. Made a huge Difference and i believe WAS the difference in the outcome.
How? Is he that difficult to tackle? I remember Ramsey running through tackles and was the "Battering Ram" he went down when tackled by one person. Again he did play every snap on defense some I'm curious how could he guard receivers and play the slot on offense when they went 4 wide yet could only line up in the backfield for 1 carry for 4 yards? What was the extent of the injury that he could do all that but carry the ball more? I've always wondered what the injury was.
Salem could've had the best players from Bealton, JF, Woodgrove, etc plus a healthy Coleman Fox and still would've lost to LT. It's sad that fans can't accept the fact. Fox is overrated. Good player, going to Tech but he wouldn't have made a difference in that game. LT was that good.
The season is over with................Clayborne not Womack.........Have a good year......
No one is listening..............Take a nap...............
No one is listening..............Take a nap...............
What's even more sad are some Danville fans that can't accept that Salem was a better team than GW and that's why they beat them, not because there was Homecooking by the officiating crew.
LT was the better team without a doubt, having Fox play on offense would have made a difference, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome. LT was faster, they were as strong if not stronger, and they played a much more aggressive style than Salem was accustomed to.
LT was the better team without a doubt, having Fox play on offense would have made a difference, but it wouldn't have changed the outcome. LT was faster, they were as strong if not stronger, and they played a much more aggressive style than Salem was accustomed to.
Insert several names of teams here, you have probably seen them and hyped them. Many many teams have bigger, or faster or more athletic players. What those teams do not have is the character and discipline 365 days a year to win a state championship like LT had this year. Insert coaching and game plan and 4 quarters of fight no matter how much they were down...like to monacan...you don't have the be the biggest fastest or athletic to win states. They had those type of players but did not rely only on those players to win. Once again, LT did not go 15-0 beating everyone in state by being the biggest fastest most athletic team. They were the best Overall Team by far with all the intangibles in takes to win.
This post was edited on 1/2 2:33 PM by Checkdown
This post was edited on 1/2 2:33 PM by Checkdown
No one is listening yet you posted a reply. LMAO!! No need to take a nap imagine how many accounts would have been created if you guys won? Salem Guru, SalemSpartan4Lyfe, Salem..., This board would have been running over with Salem talk and a countdown ticker til the season starts. I'm asking a legitimate question and because you don't like it I should stop? Please.
This post was edited on 1/2 2:37 PM by DEVILSLB99
This post was edited on 1/2 2:37 PM by DEVILSLB99
I'm only going to say...if I was grading that game like so many coaches grade their players I would have to give LT coaching staff in their preparation of Salem an A+ all across the board in every category!!
Salem would grade out in my opinion a C in preparation for LT. I was hoping they would have kept doing what got them to the game all year with an aggressive offense, but i saw a different offense on that day!! The problem from an observers eyes is we don't fully know if the coaches where game planning with the personnel they had to put on the field that day!! Good or bad... well I guess you have to decide for yourself, but for me I was expecting to see an aggressive offense that would spread out those 9 players in the box ( they did the spread twice ) and it opened up the field so you could do more with less players in the box!! Lt was determined to make Salem beat them by passing the ball that's why the middle of the field was open all night long and the deep ball as well!! Actually threw the ball deep twice and completed both and one for a touchdown...that's great odds!!! This is the one time I believe that spreading out the LT defense would have gotten better results but we'll never know!!! I could go on but that would be useless because its over and done with!!!
I know everyone keeps saying that the South is so much more Superior than the North at this stage but I believe that if the coaching staff of who ever gets there this coming year puts a game plan together you'll see that upset that everyone talks about but still want happen for a few more years.
I've always wondered why coaches play different in regular games and then get to the big game and play not to lose? I wish I new the answer to that one I'd write a book!!!
Football season is just around the corner LOL!!!!!
Salem would grade out in my opinion a C in preparation for LT. I was hoping they would have kept doing what got them to the game all year with an aggressive offense, but i saw a different offense on that day!! The problem from an observers eyes is we don't fully know if the coaches where game planning with the personnel they had to put on the field that day!! Good or bad... well I guess you have to decide for yourself, but for me I was expecting to see an aggressive offense that would spread out those 9 players in the box ( they did the spread twice ) and it opened up the field so you could do more with less players in the box!! Lt was determined to make Salem beat them by passing the ball that's why the middle of the field was open all night long and the deep ball as well!! Actually threw the ball deep twice and completed both and one for a touchdown...that's great odds!!! This is the one time I believe that spreading out the LT defense would have gotten better results but we'll never know!!! I could go on but that would be useless because its over and done with!!!
I know everyone keeps saying that the South is so much more Superior than the North at this stage but I believe that if the coaching staff of who ever gets there this coming year puts a game plan together you'll see that upset that everyone talks about but still want happen for a few more years.
I've always wondered why coaches play different in regular games and then get to the big game and play not to lose? I wish I new the answer to that one I'd write a book!!!
Football season is just around the corner LOL!!!!!
They threw the ball deep more than once. The TD was a great play where the DB relaxed and got caught jumping a route, and the long pass to the TE was a great play call the DB came up in run support as the TE sold the block then leaked out. Middle of the field is going to be open because there is no safety in the middle of the field as we play cover 0 the question is can you get it there and can your receivers beat our dbs. We trust our dbs
It also didn't hurt that Monacan had one of the biggest group "brain farts" in Virginia high school sports history. It's like someone beating Jack Nicklaus to win the Masters, back in Nicklaus's heyday, and then walking off without signing their scorecard. To say that Lake Taylor was lucky to even make it to the final is a gigantic understatement.
I guess Monacan's lack of just one player with the presence of mind to fall on the ball (or even to stay on the field) qualifies as an "intangible." I don't think LT had much to do with it, though. If not for Monacan's unbelievably stupid gaffe, the 757 would still be 0-for-2 in teams appearing in the 4A title game.
I guess Monacan's lack of just one player with the presence of mind to fall on the ball (or even to stay on the field) qualifies as an "intangible." I don't think LT had much to do with it, though. If not for Monacan's unbelievably stupid gaffe, the 757 would still be 0-for-2 in teams appearing in the 4A title game.
IF the ref wouldn't had made a bogus call on 2 plays earlier LT would have scored, but he called it back for illegal formations which was a bad call. If IF was a 5th we'll all be drunk. Too bad we made the play that won at the end and then we showed up the next week when it really counted. Why the hate for the 757? Bottom line the 4a South however is 2-0 in the 4a State Finals and both teams have defeated former AA Powers in the process. Imagine id reclassification would have happened years ago? Those Phoebus teams.....
This post was edited on 1/2 4:27 PM by DEVILSLB99
This post was edited on 1/2 4:27 PM by DEVILSLB99
I thought that '93 Pulaski team was better than their predecessors, the '92 Div. 6 state champions. And I agree that those injuries probably made the difference between winning and losing. People can call it excuses or whatever, but it's just the facts. You can't lose players of that caliber, and still be the same team. Not in high school, anyway.
It's also a fact that you have to deal with adversity. In the end, no one cares about someone else's problems, whether we're talking about an individual or a football team. Lake Taylor's trophy doesn't (and shouldn't) have an asterisk on it. Bottom line: you either get it done some way, or you don't. Salem didn't. I'm just mystified by the "Fox wouldn't have made any difference" attitude.
It's also a fact that you have to deal with adversity. In the end, no one cares about someone else's problems, whether we're talking about an individual or a football team. Lake Taylor's trophy doesn't (and shouldn't) have an asterisk on it. Bottom line: you either get it done some way, or you don't. Salem didn't. I'm just mystified by the "Fox wouldn't have made any difference" attitude.
Let me save you the trouble.....
of ever answering another post of mine. It won't be read by me. Until reading the first post in this thread, I hadn't read anything you've posted since mid-September, when it became obvious that you're essentially just another troll. I haven't read any of your responses in this thread, including this one. I initially read momomule's post, which made me suspect that your original post in this thread was just another variation on the gloating theme. So, I broke my own policy, read the OP, and found that my suspicions were correct (big shock).
I don't know what makes you think being an internet troll who devotes its time to making a negative response to every single post about Salem football, or to every single posts made by Salem football fans, is a worthwhile endeavor. People have written books about the troll-like behavior that you exhibit, so I'll leave it to the psychologists. I don't believe you're a coach, or whatever claims you were making. I don't even think you're an adult. To me, you come across as a passive-aggressive, juvenile jerk - one of the worst I've encountered on here, going back to 1999. So, don't waste your time responding to me, ever again. You have nothing intelligent or remotely worthwhile to add to any discussion. You just want to act like an immature idiot - all under the excuse of "stirring the pot". So I'll be sticking to my "ignore" policy.
of ever answering another post of mine. It won't be read by me. Until reading the first post in this thread, I hadn't read anything you've posted since mid-September, when it became obvious that you're essentially just another troll. I haven't read any of your responses in this thread, including this one. I initially read momomule's post, which made me suspect that your original post in this thread was just another variation on the gloating theme. So, I broke my own policy, read the OP, and found that my suspicions were correct (big shock).
I don't know what makes you think being an internet troll who devotes its time to making a negative response to every single post about Salem football, or to every single posts made by Salem football fans, is a worthwhile endeavor. People have written books about the troll-like behavior that you exhibit, so I'll leave it to the psychologists. I don't believe you're a coach, or whatever claims you were making. I don't even think you're an adult. To me, you come across as a passive-aggressive, juvenile jerk - one of the worst I've encountered on here, going back to 1999. So, don't waste your time responding to me, ever again. You have nothing intelligent or remotely worthwhile to add to any discussion. You just want to act like an immature idiot - all under the excuse of "stirring the pot". So I'll be sticking to my "ignore" policy.
Re: Let me save you the trouble.....
He is Mr. Rant & Mr.Ramble. I agree w/ you Yore, Devil no more.
He is Mr. Rant & Mr.Ramble. I agree w/ you Yore, Devil no more.
Re: Let me save you the trouble.....
Sad thing is Spartanofyore is he really is a coach and teacher---his name is Mike Whittington. He teaches some classes at the middle school and has a small business dealing with keeping stats for athletic events. He was in the press box during the state championship game and was not one of the coaches on the sidelines for Lake Taylor taunting fans. However, at one time I did give him a nickname---the Al Sharpton of the Va.preps message board.
Sad thing is Spartanofyore is he really is a coach and teacher---his name is Mike Whittington. He teaches some classes at the middle school and has a small business dealing with keeping stats for athletic events. He was in the press box during the state championship game and was not one of the coaches on the sidelines for Lake Taylor taunting fans. However, at one time I did give him a nickname---the Al Sharpton of the Va.preps message board.
Thanks
Rev. Al Sharpton has had a very successful career. Thank you for the compliment!! What is sad is the fact that you guys can't have a conversation about Salem without getting your panties in a bunch and getting all uptight. You don't play for Salem anymore IF you ever played and Coach Mags probably don't call on you for help with the game plan.
This post was edited on 1/2 7:32 PM by DEVILSLB99
Rev. Al Sharpton has had a very successful career. Thank you for the compliment!! What is sad is the fact that you guys can't have a conversation about Salem without getting your panties in a bunch and getting all uptight. You don't play for Salem anymore IF you ever played and Coach Mags probably don't call on you for help with the game plan.
This post was edited on 1/2 7:32 PM by DEVILSLB99
Crazy thing is this, they keep trying to slide in the Fox wasn't healthy thing in discussions about Salem and when they get called out about it I'm juvenile and a troll. To me they are making excuses which they swore up and down Salem never does. I don't know how you guys put up with some of these people on the old AA board they are sad old men that haven't played football since the 60's and have been stuck in Salem "evaluating talent" the last 50 years.
Re: Thanks
Shaprton is a hater that incites violence and he is over 4.5 million delinquent in income taxes. Successful?............. Come on Devilslb99 you are wasting your time bantering on here.I too am a coach and most of us knew when 757 schools came to 4a what the outcome would be for schools up this way.With that being said your players watch you post on here and you aren't setting a very good example with the back and forth with everyone.While I see your points with all the posts from guys in the 540 you should be the bigger person as a leader of young men and let it go.Fools that don't know much and don't have an impact on players and students is one thing because most if not all of those guys are incognito on here but everyone especially YOUR players know its you and have read all of your posts and though most all of them are valid you are teaching your guys thats this stuff is ok.You being a middle school teacher that age group is even easier to influence with this kind of trash talking.Let me say again LT was BY FAR the better team in 4a and you guys deserve to be champs.Congrats from William Campbell High. I am sure it won't be your last one either.
Shaprton is a hater that incites violence and he is over 4.5 million delinquent in income taxes. Successful?............. Come on Devilslb99 you are wasting your time bantering on here.I too am a coach and most of us knew when 757 schools came to 4a what the outcome would be for schools up this way.With that being said your players watch you post on here and you aren't setting a very good example with the back and forth with everyone.While I see your points with all the posts from guys in the 540 you should be the bigger person as a leader of young men and let it go.Fools that don't know much and don't have an impact on players and students is one thing because most if not all of those guys are incognito on here but everyone especially YOUR players know its you and have read all of your posts and though most all of them are valid you are teaching your guys thats this stuff is ok.You being a middle school teacher that age group is even easier to influence with this kind of trash talking.Let me say again LT was BY FAR the better team in 4a and you guys deserve to be champs.Congrats from William Campbell High. I am sure it won't be your last one either.
Guess what Mike Salem???
Salem got the same thing GW has for the year..NO RING! Nobody remembers 2nd place. The argument is irrelevant.
Salem got the same thing GW has for the year..NO RING! Nobody remembers 2nd place. The argument is irrelevant.
Re: Guess what Mike Salem???
You're exactly right about the ring, the only difference is I didn't get on here and make any excuses when Salem clearly got beat by a better team. Too bad some GW fans couldn't admit the same. They acted like the only way Salem could have won is if the refs gave it to them. Nevermind the fact they couldn't stop Ramsey from scoring 6 Td's.
You're exactly right about the ring, the only difference is I didn't get on here and make any excuses when Salem clearly got beat by a better team. Too bad some GW fans couldn't admit the same. They acted like the only way Salem could have won is if the refs gave it to them. Nevermind the fact they couldn't stop Ramsey from scoring 6 Td's.
Re: Thanks
Thanks coach hope we can win a few more..It's getting a little absurd around here as you are correct can't change people's mindset they are going to think the way they want to think. Happy New Year to the Generals and hopefully you guys have some success this upcoming season I remember you guys were bringing in state titles in the early 2000s
Thanks coach hope we can win a few more..It's getting a little absurd around here as you are correct can't change people's mindset they are going to think the way they want to think. Happy New Year to the Generals and hopefully you guys have some success this upcoming season I remember you guys were bringing in state titles in the early 2000s
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