Does the playoff format change next year...

[Lafayette]

Because after looking at the pairings in 4a and 3a a lot of lousy teams are playing who should not. The rule should be without a .500 record you don't qualify. The only result from some of these poor 1st round games are injuries to some highly seeded teams. I mean, 1-9 George Wythe in Richmond playing in 3a east? That is a joke for any system.

 

[DEVILSLB99]

Because after looking at the pairings in 4a and 3a a lot of lousy teams are playing who should not. The rule should be without a .500 record you don't qualify. The only result from some of these poor 1st round games are injuries to some highly seeded teams. I mean, 1-9 George Wythe in Richmond playing in 3a east? That is a joke for any system.

Going to regionals and its up to the region to determine their format or whether they want to go 4,6, or 8.

 

[gwb16]

Look at Petersburg at 3-7, I've heard a lot of chatter that they are probably one of the best 3-7 teams ever. They play in a district with some teams that have a much heavier enrollment. Sometimes those sub-.500 teams are a victim of their "district". And wasn't there a team out west a few years ago that made a pretty impressive playoff run that went in with a 2-8 or 3-7 record?

 

[Lafayette]

Going to regionals and its up to the region to determine their format or whether they want to go 4,6, or 8.

I remember the "old" days here in Region 1- basically the Bayrivers and Battlefield teams where 4 got in. I think 6 would be a fair cutoff, at 4 the pressure was on all 10 weeks with little room for error. I wonder how the regions will be divided up since teams have changed a bit since that format.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

The way I understand it is as follows:

Four Regions in each Division. (The letter designation goes away, and they will get the new title of Division 1, Division 2, on so on.)

Conferences will be gone after this school year.

Each Region in Division 4, (4a), will be roughly the the existing "pods". I do not know what the other Divisions will do.

Each of the four Regions in Division 4 will play down to two teams, (strictly speaking of football).

Two Regions each, cross bracket. For example Region's 1 and 2 cross bracket, and 3 and 4 do the same. The next two seasons, it rotates. For instance, 1 vs 3, and 2 vs 4. Then the following year, 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3, before starting over the year after that.

The winners of each of the two Regional matchups play in the two state semi-finals.

District standing or District Champions will have no bearing for post season qualifying or seeding. Seeding will be exclusively based on the Modified VHSL points system, what we have all come to know as the Power Points.

I'm not sure that all of this is etched in stone. And again, I do not know what the other five Divisions will do.

Work still needs to be completed by the competition committee to finalize all of the different post season competitions, but much progress has been made.

I hope this helps.

 

[Scout1817]

Does anyone know why there is only 12 teams in the west and 16 in the east? I feel like it's a little unfair for the one side to get a bye and well needed rest before going into playoffs and the other side to have to play no matter how bad the team there playing is. As far as injuries go I feel like that bye could set a team up for a good run. Why is that the case?

 

[gwb16]

Does anyone know why there is only 12 teams in the west and 16 in the east? I feel like it's a little unfair for the one side to get a bye and well needed rest before going into playoffs and the other side to have to play no matter how bad the team there playing is. As far as injuries go I feel like that bye could set a team up for a good run. Why is that the case?

The East had the same opportunity to make it 12 deep, but in this EVERYONE gets a trophy world....we get 16. Personally, I wouldn't want my high school kids having a bye week this late in the season. But that's just my opinion.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Does anyone know why there is only 12 teams in the west and 16 in the east? I feel like it's a little unfair for the one side to get a bye and well needed rest before going into playoffs and the other side to have to play no matter how bad the team there playing is. As far as injuries go I feel like that bye could set a team up for a good run. Why is that the case?

Because each "region" (east and west), has the autonomy to decide what works best for them. The west opted to adopt their system primarily because of travel requirements and attendance considerations.

The east went with two "pods" of eight playoff teams.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

The East had the same opportunity to make it 12 deep, but in this EVERYONE gets a trophy world....we get 16. Personally, I wouldn't want my high school kids having a bye week this late in the season. But that's just my opinion.

Agreed, I hate the by-week concept.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Primarily what drove these changes was poor attendance and very weak revenue when it was a straight 16 team per east and west regions. Here is a graphic example. In 2013, Dinwiddie hosted Jamestown. Dinwiddie had beaten Jamestown early in the season by a huge margin. Needless to say, there were very few Jamestown fans there, and probably more than a few Dinwiddie fans stayed home that night.

This occurred in many of the first and second round matchups.

 

[Scout1817]

Oh ok I understand. I just think it should be the same format both sides. Because let's say dinwiddie who is 10-0 had their QB roll an ankle last week and had to run a true freshman out who has played 10 snaps all year and they lose to a 16 seed. If they would have had the bye week it could've been enough to get him healthy..and I know on the other hand a bye could be costly to by not staying in rhythm but I don't like hat one side is one way and the other side another

 

[Scout1817]

Oh ok I understand. I just think it should be the same format both sides. Because let's say dinwiddie who is 10-0 had their QB roll an ankle last week and had to run a true freshman out who has played 10 snaps all year and they lose to a 16 seed. If they would have had the bye week it could've been enough to get him healthy..and I know on the other hand a bye could be costly to by not staying in rhythm but I don't like hat one side is one way and the other side another

 

[southbottomU]

Should be eight teams in East eight teams in West. All divisions

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I don't like the disparity either, but it is what it is.

Did you know that Salem only played 13 games last year versus Lake Taylor's 15? Salem had one forfeit and a first round bye. Did this make any difference? We could, (and have), argued this over and over. But it is what it is.

Again, I don't like it one bit. To me it would be like the American League using a different format than the National League to send their representatives to the World Series.

But, until the VHSL members vote to force a rule of uniformity, this is the way it is.

 

[redzone4us]

I think both east & west should play same number of games. personally, I like the 16 team format for each side.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Primarily what drove these changes was poor attendance and very weak revenue when it was a straight 16 team per east and west regions. Here is a graphic example. In 2013, Dinwiddie hosted Jamestown. Dinwiddie had beaten Jamestown early in the season by a huge margin. Needless to say, there were very few Jamestown fans there, and probably more than a few Dinwiddie fans stayed home that night.

This occurred in many of the first and second round matchups.

That's correct. The West had two years of first-round games, almost all of which were big blowouts; attendance was also very sparse. It just didn't make any sense to keep the sixteen-team format.

As far as having the bye goes, I see pros and cons. Ultimately, I feel that if a team is good enough and well-coached enough to earn a bye to begin with, they should be good enough to deal with having that week off.

I keep coming back to one very simple thing: the insistance on playing games on Friday at 7:00. It's no wonder that in these regions like 4A West that cover enormous areas, you get almost zero visiting fans.

 

[mbonape1]

I'd rather have a few bad teams in the playoffs each year than a year where a few good teams don't get an opportunity. I think it is a valid argument either way but I will lean towards giving schools a chance. Back when I played there were only 3 state champions and 4 teams only from the richmond area made the playoffs. There were several seasons where 9-1 teams didn't make the playoffs. That is unacceptable. I can deal with a few blowouts to ensure that we have the best competition level possible.

 

[mbonape1]

I'd be in favor of combining 1&2, 3&4, & 5&6 and having 8 teams per POD. The idea of 6 state champions is a little much for me.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

4A West eliminated a bunch of massive blowouts, and did nothing to harm the level of competition. In fact, leaving out 5-5 or 4-6 teams (or even 3-7) that had no realistic shot of winning even one game has probably raised the level of competition. This year all five teams that finished 7-3 made it in 4A West, along with a 6-4. The days of 9-1's and 8-2's sitting at home are long gone. And perhaps the biggest consideration is the economic one. Given uncompetitive games that generated virtually no revenue, and that were proving costly in travel expenses for the visiting schools, it's little wonder that the 4A West principals and AD's pulled the plug on the bloated 16-team format.

What I'd really like to see is a complete redo of the VHSL rating points scale. #16 Waynesboro defeating #1 Hidden Valley a couple of years back frequently gets brought up as a case for having sixteen teams from each region. To me, what that illustrated perfectly was how broken the points scale is. HV was in no way, shape or form a number one seed, particularly with the injury problems they had as the playoffs begin. I saw them in week eight, and they barely looked like a playoff team. Putting the Titans in the top slot was a complete joke.

This will all become academic next year, anyway, with the return to four regions per classification. Except then, the argument will be whether or not to let six or eight teams into the playoffs, as opposed to the current question of "twelve or sixteen?"

 

[Scout1817]

Yeah I saw where in 2A you have Virginia highschool out of Bristol traveling 4 hours to play Appomattox and Virginia high is 3-7. Like you were saying I don't see anyone besides the parents traveling that far to watch them play a 10-0 team. My question is how in the world do you get in the playoffs with that record there was no one better than that?

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

Yeah I saw where in 2A you have Virginia highschool out of Bristol traveling 4 hours to play Appomattox and Virginia high is 3-7. Like you were saying I don't see anyone besides the parents traveling that far to watch them play a 10-0 team. My question is how in the world do you get in the playoffs with that record there was no one better than that?

Virginia High was the same team that came to Gretna a couple years ago as a WHAT? 12 or 13 seed and beat them. When playoffs start everyone is 0-0.

 

[Scout1817]

No you are right anything can happen but they were saying they stopped doing the 16 teams in the west because your not generating the money with the 1 vs 16 matchups

 

[Scout1817]

No you are right anything can happen but they were saying they stopped doing the 16 teams in the west because your not generating the money with the 1 vs 16 matchups

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I've asked this before. Have you ever heard a coach say that they wish they had not made the playoffs?

Yes we see some really lopsided matchups sometimes, but the kids will have made memories to share later in life.

If each of the new regions will adopt the the 8 team format, that puts 32 teams across the state in the playoffs for the Division. That seems fair and about right to me.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I've asked this before. Have you ever heard a coach say that they wish they had not made the playoffs?

Yes we see some really lopsided matchups sometimes, but the kids will have made memories to share later in life.

If each of the new regions will adopt the the 8 team format, that puts 32 teams across the state in the playoffs for the Division. That seems fair and about right to me. Enough teams to assure good teams don't get left out, but not so many that you have a bunch of 1, 2, or 3 win teams making the cut.

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

No you are right anything can happen but they were saying they stopped doing the 16 teams in the west because your not generating the money with the 1 vs 16 matchups

I agree. It happens all the time in NC. I've seen teams in Western NC go 5 hours to play a team in central NC. 64-0 blowouts and sometimes it's like this for the first 3 rounds in smaller divisions. Low gate and you're exactly right, only the parents travel. I've also seen some crazy upsets or almost upsets. Hard to say. I personally liked the regions. Football was just better then. You'd have 9-0 teams play on the last week of the regular season and the loser wouldn't even make the playoffs. Everybody brought their A Game week in and week out. Now unfortunately some kids just don't take it seriously. Regions gave them something to play for.

 

[gwb16]

Let's don't forget that for years, people griped, complained and clamored over how horrible the playoff setup was. They pointed out that Team A and Team B played in the Regional final, they should have been playing each other in the State Finals because they were the best two in the state....yada, yada, yada....people, AD's, Coaches and Fans wanted change. They got it. And yet here we are, still complaining to some degree.

I miss the 80's. 4 Districts per Region. You want to make the playoffs. Win your District. Period. Sad that your 9-1 team didn't make the playoffs, easy solution, be 10-0 next year.

People are diverse. Varying opinions, sometimes WILDLY varying. The VHSL laid out a plan, the members approved. So now they are tweaking things. Mark my words, just as many folks will complain the next cycle as these last two, maybe more and definitely some of the usual suspects.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

I've asked this before. Have you ever heard a coach say that they wish they had not made the playoffs?

Yes we see some really lopsided matchups sometimes, but the kids will have made memories to share later in life.

If each of the new regions will adopt the the 8 team format, that puts 32 teams across the state in the playoffs for the Division. That seems fair and about right to me.

I don't know, DP. You honestly think that in 2033, at the 2013 Jamestown Eagles' football team 20th reunion, the players are going to be saying, "Man! Remember when we had that crappy team that went 4-6, but still had to bounce around on a school bus for ninety minutes to go get our clocks cleaned to the tune of 62-0 at Dinwiddie? Good times.....good times."

Looking ahead, we'll still be having these same arguments next year. Class 4, Region D will have twelve schools. IMHO, eight out of twelve is too many. Then again, four would probably be too exclusive. For that region, six seems like the perfect number. But then we would again have some regions with teams getting first-round byes while other regions have no byes, if eight teams are involved. I think that's just the way it's going to be as long as the VHSL keeps letting the regions make those decisions.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Absolutely correct. Everybody tends to forget the range of diversity in high schools across the state. Just a few of the obvious, student population, prosperity, school and community support for high school athletics, geographical location, socioeconomic factors, cultural differences, constant growth or reduction of student population, splitting of schools, merging of schools, and one of the biggies, expectations. And lest we forget, football is not the only athletic activity that the VHSL membership has to consider.

Coming up with the perfect setup for competitive levels and playoff formats to satisfy everyone, is like holding a half filled water balloon in one hand. Try to lift up one end, and the other end begins to sag, and vice versa. Back and forth we go. And the whole time you are trying to find the balance, the audience is screaming at you about what you are doing wrong!

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I'm not so sure they will remember the bad stuff to that degree, but I can't totally disagree. What I can say for sure is that I've had friends and employees that played football at Dinwiddie when they routinely got stomped. And they still talk about their time playing football as if it were yesterday. They laugh about the time they got creamed, or dropped a touchdown pass, just as much as the good things that happened. Based on that, I think very few of the active participants, coaches or players, would ever say they regret having had the chance to play "one more game", regardless of the outcome.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Playing football is freaking fun!

 

[gwb16]

What's worse than getting beat 62-0?

Not having the chance to play the game to begin with...

However, It still slays me to think that my last high school game was a loss....33 years later...