Football playoff format...wishful thinking

[VolNation85]

Now that we have so many schools in Virginia, it is common for a team to travel long distances for playoff games. This year we've already seen Prince George travel to Fleming, JF travel to Sherando, and PH-Roanoke travel to Matoaca. All of those trips are over 2h 45min one direction. It's obvious that long trips doesn't matter to VHSL and I'm completely fine with it. Now to the point of my post.

I wish VHSL would re-seed the tournament after the second round of the playoffs based off of end of regular season power ratings. This would increase the likelihood of the two best teams meeting in the championship game. If they did this for this year we would have some interesting match ups that we usually wouldn't see. Under this format we would have the following games Thanksgiving week;

#8 Hampton @ #1 Dinwiddie
#5 Sherando @ #4 John Champe
#6 Tuscarora @ #3 Phoebus
#7 Salem @ #2 Varina

 

[Phoebus Fan]

Nah don’t like this idea. Regional championships would be eliminated. I like the idea of the 4 best teams from each area being in the final four. I like they switched the state semi matchups up

 

[VolNation85]

Nah don’t like this idea. Regional championships would be eliminated. I like the idea of the 4 best teams from each area being in the final four. I like they switched the state semi matchups up

I agree that not having Region champions would suck but I don't really care which areas are represented in the Final 4. I just want the best 4 teams, regardless of where they're from.

 

[SFUWO]

Now that we have so many schools in Virginia, it is common for a team to travel long distances for playoff games. This year we've already seen Prince George travel to Fleming, JF travel to Sherando, and PH-Roanoke travel to Matoaca. All of those trips are over 2h 45min one direction. It's obvious that long trips doesn't matter to VHSL and I'm completely fine with it. Now to the point of my post.

I wish VHSL would re-seed the tournament after the second round of the playoffs based off of end of regular season power ratings. This would increase the likelihood of the two best teams meeting in the championship game. If they did this for this year we would have some interesting match ups that we usually wouldn't see. Under this format we would have the following games Thanksgiving week;

#8 Hampton @ #1 Dinwiddie
#5 Sherando @ #4 John Champe
#6 Tuscarora @ #3 Phoebus
#7 Salem @ #2 Varina

I don't like the reseeding idea. Power points are determined by similar teams in the region. Let the best teams in the regions battle it out. Rotate the regions every yr.

 

[Phoebus Fan]

I agree that not having Region champions would suck but I don't really care which areas are represented in the Final 4. I just want the best 4 teams, regardless of where they're from.

if a team loses in their region then they’re not one of the best 4 teams then

 

[VolNation85]

I don't like the reseeding idea. Power points are determined by similar teams in the region. Let the best teams in the regions battle it out. Rotate the regions every yr.

What do you mean that power points are determined by similar teams in the region?

 

[VolNation85]

if a team loses in their region then they’re not one of the best 4 teams then

That'e not necessarily true. Some regions are inherently more challenging than others. That's evident by the power points. Perfect example is how Varina is the #2 team in their region this year but they would be #1 in any other region based on power points. The power points are based on the quality of teams that a team beats so that has to mean something.

I have a hard to believing that Varina and Dinwiddie aren't two of the four best teams in Class 4 this year but one of them will go home after next weekend while a team that was not as good during the regular season will advance to the Final Four just because of their geographic location.

 

[Agibbs757]

I say texas style it and just take the top 32 in each class. And rank 1-32 and play from there

 

[Phoebus Fan]

That'e not necessarily true. Some regions are inherently more challenging than others. That's evident by the power points. Perfect example is how Varina is the #2 team in their region this year but they would be #1 in any other region based on power points. The power points are based on the quality of teams that a team beats so that has to mean something.

I have a hard to believing that Varina and Dinwiddie aren't two of the four best teams in Class 4 this year but one of them will go home after next weekend while a team that was not as good during the regular season will advance to the Final Four just because of their geographic location.

Yes i agree Varina and Dinwiddie are in the top 4 of 4A and they’ll now get a chance to win their area and move on and play the best from another area. The only change that needed to be made was made and that was changing A vs B and C vs D in state semi round.

It’s a state playoff so having a final four bas d on geographic location is the best route. Plus imagine a year where a team from out west could come to play in 804 then the next week the 757 then the next week to the 804 again. Who’s paying for all of that?

 

[VolNation85]

Yes i agree Varina and Dinwiddie are in the top 4 of 4A and they’ll now get a chance to win their area and move on and play the best from another area. The only change that needed to be made was made and that was changing A vs B and C vs D in state semi round.

It’s a state playoff so having a final four bas d on geographic location is the best route. Plus imagine a year where a team from out west could come to play in 804 then the next week the 757 then the next week to the 804 again. Who’s paying for all of that?

The long travel distances are the norm now. Several regions already have long travel times every round. In 2022 Kettle Run had to make back to back trips to Lynchburg for the State-semifinals and finals. That's just one example but it happens quite often.

Clearly VHSL doesn't care about geographic locations. They wouldn't have changed the semifinal format last year and this year if so. They are trying to get the best matchup in the championship, even if it means having two teams from the "eastern" half of the state. Which, I am completely fine with. I just want to see the most competitive games possible, especially in the semifinals and finals.

 

[southbottomU]

Now that we have so many schools in Virginia, it is common for a team to travel long distances for playoff games. This year we've already seen Prince George travel to Fleming, JF travel to Sherando, and PH-Roanoke travel to Matoaca. All of those trips are over 2h 45min one direction. It's obvious that long trips doesn't matter to VHSL and I'm completely fine with it. Now to the point of my post.

I wish VHSL would re-seed the tournament after the second round of the playoffs based off of end of regular season power ratings. This would increase the likelihood of the two best teams meeting in the championship game. If they did this for this year we would have some interesting match ups that we usually wouldn't see. Under this format we would have the following games Thanksgiving week;

#8 Hampton @ #1 Dinwiddie
#5 Sherando @ #4 John Champe
#6 Tuscarora @ #3 Phoebus
#7 Salem @ #2 Varina

Let me say this succinctly as I can. No, Hell No

 

[VolNation85]

Let me say this succinctly as I can. No, Hell No

Lol Why not?

 

[SFUWO]

What do you mean that power points are determined by similar teams in the region?

What I mean is the power points come from playing common opponents in your region. This makes them more relative to those teams. With Region 4D being the outlier because half the region have no common opponents.

Ex. Some regions have more C5 and C6 schools on their schedules. Even if they are mid to bad teams you get more points. The further west you go, you have less C5 and C6 teams. Franklin County is the only C6 school. Then you have PH and William Fleming as the only C5 schools. Most schools are C1-C3. This is one reason the VHSL changed the point system to give a team 2 bonus points per classification that you play down to try and even it out.

Ex #2. In 2013 and 2014, both Lake Taylor and Salem were undefeated. Lake Taylor had more than a point lead both yrs in the power points.

Ex #3. This season Phoebus played 1 C6 and 6 C5 schools. They played 1 C3 school. Hampton played 4 C5 schools. Compared to Sherando who only played 1 C5 school.

You get the same points for beating a 5-5 C6 team (26w10) as you do for beating a 7-3 C3 (20w16) or C4 team (22w14) just because it's a C6 school doesn't mean they are better than the 7-3 C3 school.

 

[mike salem]

What I mean is the power points come from playing common opponents in your region. This makes them more relative to those teams. With Region 4D being the outlier because half the region have no common opponents.

Ex. Some regions have more C5 and C6 schools on their schedules. Even if they are mid to bad teams you get more points. The further west you go, you have less C5 and C6 teams. Franklin County is the only C6 school. Then you have PH and William Fleming as the only C5 schools. Most schools are C1-C3. This is one reason the VHSL changed the point system to give a team 2 bonus points per classification that you play down to try and even it out.

Ex #2. In 2013 and 2014, both Lake Taylor and Salem were undefeated. Lake Taylor had more than a point lead both yrs in the power points.

Ex #3. This season Phoebus played 1 C6 and 6 C5 schools. They played 1 C3 school. Hampton played 4 C5 schools. Compared to Sherando who only played 1 C5 school.

You get the same points for beating a 5-5 C6 team (26w10) as you do for beating a 7-3 C3 (20w16) or C4 team (22w14) just because it's a C6 school doesn't mean they are better than the 7-3 C3 school.

Franklin Co is C5 now also.

 

[numb3rs]

I say texas style it and just take the top 32 in each class. And rank 1-32 and play from there

Is that seriously how Texas does it for all classifications? It can take over 12 hours to drive from one end of Texas to another.

 

[Agibbs757]

Is that seriously how Texas does it for all classifications? It can take over 12 hours to drive from one end of Texas to another.

Pretty much. Now they do kind of place them in region type areas like usually your first round would be someone close but after that you'll start getting out of area matchup. But in Virginia it would pretty much work. Because in most classes the most you would travel is what 3-4 hrs.

 

[BleedingNavy]

I say texas style it and just take the top 32 in each class. And rank 1-32 and play from there

@Agibbs757, I decided to look at your idea and see how Class 4 would look by power points. Here's the first round. Very interesting and entertaining. Every team in would have a .500 record or better and very few first round matchups are from the same region. What do you think?

Top Bracket
1 Dinwiddie vs. 32 Warhill
16 Hampton vs. 17 Handley
9 King George vs. 24 Powhatan
8 Sherando vs. 25 Monacan
4 Phoebus vs. 29 Atlee
13 Salem vs. 20 Orange
12 Eastern View vs. 21 Glass
5 John Champe vs. 28 Caroline

Bottom Bracket
2 Varina vs. 31 Amherst
15 Loudon Co. vs. 18 Woodgrove
10 J. Forest vs. 23 Mecklenburg
7 Tuscarora vs. 26 Henrico
3 Huguenot vs. 30 Churchland
14 Smithfield vs. 19 James Wood
11 Courtland vs. 22 Hanover
6 GW vs. 27 Loudon Valley

Region Breakdowns:

A - 5 teams
B- 12 teams
C - 5 teams
D - 10 teams

 

[mike salem]

I like the idea of new matchups.

 

[redzone4us]

I like the idea of new matchups.

Ditto. Hate seeing same matchups all the time.

 

[BleedingNavy]

The travel wouldn't be awful. Getting officiating crews may be tough with the other classes playing, so some games may have to be played on Saturdays.

Cool thing about the brackets is three former champions (since realignment) Salem, Phoebus, and Dinwiddie are in the top bracket and two, Varina and Woodgrove are in the lower bracket.

Possible second round matchups of Salem and Phoebus, King George and Sherando would be a fun watch. @VolNation85 what your take on this?

 

[SFUWO]

I agree that not having Region champions would suck but I don't really care which areas are represented in the Final 4. I just want the best 4 teams, regardless of where they're from.

It's nearly impossible to get the 4 best teams in any classification in the Final 4. Sometimes the 2 best teams could be in the same district. One moves on the other doesn't.
Not to mention teams move up and down In classifications. At the end of the day. Whoever wins the championship is the best team. They beat the team that beat the team.

 

[mike salem]

Here's the Final Top 16 as rated by Calpreps in 2017, along with their regular season record:
(these are not in playoff point order)

Salem 8-2
Louisa 10-0
Dinwiddie 10-0
Blacksburg 9-1
Lafayette 9-1
King's Fork 9-1
Eastern View 10-0
Sherando 8-2
GW Danville 9-1
EC Glass 7-3
Monacan 10-0
Deep Creek 8-2
Smithfield 8-2
Millbrook 9-1
Liberty Beal 8-2
Amherst 6-4

Imagine the different matchups that could have occurred throughout the playoffs if the VHSL took a Top 32 or Top 16 in the state and just lined up the brackets without Reg in mind. It's possible Salem could have faced their district rival Blacksburg in the Finals. It's hard to say what would have happened because games are all about matchups. 9 of these teams were undefeated or 1 loss teams during the RS!

 

[VolNation85]

Here's the Final Top 16 as rated by Calpreps in 2017, along with their regular season record:
(these are not in playoff point order)

Salem 8-2
Louisa 10-0
Dinwiddie 10-0
Blacksburg 9-1
Lafayette 9-1
King's Fork 9-1
Eastern View 10-0
Sherando 8-2
GW Danville 9-1
EC Glass 7-3
Monacan 10-0
Deep Creek 8-2
Smithfield 8-2
Millbrook 9-1
Liberty Beal 8-2
Amherst 6-4

Imagine the different matchups that could have occurred throughout the playoffs if the VHSL took a Top 32 or Top 16 in the state and just lined up the brackets without Reg in mind. It's possible Salem could have faced their district rival Blacksburg in the Finals. It's hard to say what would have happened because games are all about matchups. 9 of these teams were undefeated or 1 loss teams during the RS!

I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating the current region tournament completely and having a top 32 tournament regardless of geographic location. George and Texas do something similar.

 

[VolNation85]

The travel wouldn't be awful. Getting officiating crews may be tough with the other classes playing, so some games may have to be played on Saturdays.

Cool thing about the brackets is three former champions (since realignment) Salem, Phoebus, and Dinwiddie are in the top bracket and two, Varina and Woodgrove are in the lower bracket.

Possible second round matchups of Salem and Phoebus, King George and Sherando would be a fun watch. @VolNation85 what your take on this?

I couldn't imagine that it would be any more difficult finding officials than now. There are already multiple games in each region during the regular season. It would be even fewer games in the playoffs.

I love the idea of different match ups! Salem vs Phoebus any round would be a great game!

 

[Agibbs757]

@Agibbs757, I decided to look at your idea and see how Class 4 would look by power points. Here's the first round. Very interesting and entertaining. Every team in would have a .500 record or better and very few first round matchups are from the same region. What do you think?

Top Bracket
1 Dinwiddie vs. 32 Warhill
16 Hampton vs. 17 Handley
9 King George vs. 24 Powhatan
8 Sherando vs. 25 Monacan
4 Phoebus vs. 29 Atlee
13 Salem vs. 20 Orange
12 Eastern View vs. 21 Glass
5 John Champe vs. 28 Caroline

Bottom Bracket
2 Varina vs. 31 Amherst
15 Loudon Co. vs. 18 Woodgrove
10 J. Forest vs. 23 Mecklenburg
7 Tuscarora vs. 26 Henrico
3 Huguenot vs. 30 Churchland
14 Smithfield vs. 19 James Wood
11 Courtland vs. 22 Hanover
6 GW vs. 27 Loudon Valley

Region Breakdowns:

A - 5 teams
B- 12 teams
C - 5 teams
D - 10 teams

Not bad and some great interesting match ups