Ideal State Championship Game

[DanvilleSportsHead]

If you could go back and pick to see 2 teams, who won the state championship, play, who would you chose.

Hands down: 2003 Gretna Hawks play the 2007 Amherst Lancers. God, so many great players on both teams. Vic Hall vs. Peter Rose. Don’t get any better than that!

HM:
2013 Dinwiddie Generals vs 2012 Lake Taylor Titans
2015 Salem Spartans vs 2012 Briar Woods Falcons
1982 GW Danville Eagles vs the Ronald Curry led Hampton Crabbers of the 90s.

 

[BleedingNavy]

I would put the 1981 and 82 GW Danville teams up against anyone. Would like to see them play the Phoebus powerhouse teams myself.

I know this may sound crazy, but the 2016 game between Salem and Dinwiddie was awesome. Very few stops by either team and great qb play. Would love to see that game again with a different result.

 

[anon_vu6vqwsr4nf3b]

2006 or 07 Amherst vs 2008 Phoebus. Phoebus was nationally ranked, had Tajh Boyd, destroyed a bunch of teams with great records, and had 9 shutouts out of 15 games that year!

 

[BleedingNavy]

2006 or 07 Amherst vs 2008 Phoebus. Phoebus was nationally ranked, had Tajh Boyd, destroyed a bunch of teams with great records, and had 9 shutouts out of 15 games that year!

You had to bring up the 2008 Phoebus team. They beat Dinwiddie to death in the state final at VA Tech. Nice video on youtube. Phoebus beat us again in 2010 in the semis scoring 14 points in 5 minutes. Good Phantom teams.

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

I believe that 2013 Dinwiddie team was the best 4a team to win the state championship since reclassification.

I’d put that 03 Gretna team up against A LOT of teams you all could name. To see a small school like that have the players they had, I truly would love an ESPN 30 for 30 on that team.

07 Amherst team was up there with 03 Gretna. I’ve seen the Keenan Allen’s, the Todd Gurley’s, the TJ Logan’s, the David Wilson’s in high school... Peter Rose is the best high school player I’ve seen. Kid had so much grit and heart. I love David Wilson and Vic Hall, but Rose is special to me. Witnessing some of the things he did on that field made me a very happy when I was coming up (except when they beat my Danville boys (who were the #1 D5 team in the state of VA) 63-31 in 2007). Throw in Big Pipe McCoy, that defense, huge line..They were the real deal. Blessed to have seen that team play.

 

[anon_vu6vqwsr4nf3b]

You had to bring up the 2008 Phoebus team. They beat Dinwiddie to death in the state final at VA Tech. Nice video on youtube. Phoebus beat us again in 2010 in the semis scoring 14 points in 5 minutes. Good Phantom teams.

Yeah I had watched that YouTube video before posting. But I remember watching their videos of the Stone Bridge and Lake Taylor games and saying DAMN!

 

[CavsGrad]

The 2008 Phoebus team was loaded and nasty, fueled by losing to Stone Bridge in 2007. Winning in 2007 would have given them 5 straight championships.

Being a 757 guy, I admit I know very little of the pre-2010 teams west of Richmond, but I'm trying to learn up. Trying to put my bias aside, and although I'd love to see the matchups of different eras, I'm thinking there is maybe a couple of past state champions on any level that could give the Curry led Hampton teams a challenge. The 96 and 97 teams finished ranked in the top 3 in the country and were as dominant in the playoffs as any team I've seen. There's also a video or two on YouTube of at least the 96 team.

 

[southbottomU]

98 Salem against all that have been mentioned

 

[BleedingNavy]

98 Salem against all that have been mentioned

No disrespect to you bottom or Salem. Appreciate your allegiance to the Spartans. I have seen every team discussed live except for the Amherst teams and without a doubt Hampton and Phoebus would have beaten Salems 1998 team. The early 1980 GW Danville teams probably would have done the same. Just my opinion though. No way to ever prove it, but I think Coach White would agree on the 1982 GW team as he played them.

 

[southbottomU]

Game has changed since 98. However, Salem in 98 very very physical, big and fast. No team mentioned would have been as big. No team would have been more physical. They also had speed at the corners and linebackers (and yes I have seen in person or on tape all teams mentioned). Remember this, Salem gave up 64 points that year in 14 games. They were not as high scoring as recent teams but that was because of the style the played. Depth was also not a problem, one player went both ways (slot receiver outside linebacker).

 

[ThevinStealberg]

1996 Hampton Crabbers vs 2008 Phoebus Phantoms.

HM: 2000 Heritage (NN) Hurricanes vs 2000 Centreville Wildcats

 

[anon_vu6vqwsr4nf3b]

No disrespect to you bottom or Salem. Appreciate your allegiance to the Spartans. I have seen every team discussed live except for the Amherst teams and without a doubt Hampton and Phoebus would have beaten Salems 1998 team. The early 1980 GW Danville teams probably would have done the same. Just my opinion though. No way to ever prove it, but I think Coach White would agree on the 1982 GW team as he played them.

If you want to see the 2006 Amherst/Louisa state title game let me know. I have it on my Google Drive for these purposes. (Thanks again to @wikki for mailing the VHS of it to me so I could convert it to digital!)

 

[DanvilleSportsHead]

If you want to see the 2006 Amherst/Louisa state title game let me know. I have it on my Google Drive for these purposes.

Send it to me bro lol

 

[BleedingNavy]

Game has changed since 98. However, Salem in 98 very very physical, big and fast. No team mentioned would have been as big. No team would have been more physical. They also had speed at the corners and linebackers (and yes I have seen in person or on tape all teams mentioned). Remember this, Salem gave up 64 points that year in 14 games. They were not as high scoring as recent teams but that was because of the style the played. Depth was also not a problem, one player went both ways (slot receiver outside linebacker).

Ok, An article written in 1998 says that Salems line averaged 265 (big yes), but Phoebus line averaged 270 and I would surely say they were just as physical as the Spartans. No way in hell they were faster than Phoebus. No one, could run on Phoebus. Hell, Adam Morgan (Dinwiddie) broke state records with 3216 passing, 716 rushing 4032 total yards 39 tds in 2008 and Phoebus crushed them 37-13.

Here is the kicker. You said Salem gave up 64 points in 14 games (nice). Phoebus gave up 53 in 15 games, beat 7 of the top ten (they were #1) teams in D5 (Hampton, Warwick, Bethel, Green Run, LT, Stonebridge, and Dinwiddie) and more importantly scored 720 points (nicer).

Cut the cake anyway you like. No one can touch those stats and no one has ever beat that many good teams in a season. Salem 1998 was a great team, but their schedule doesnt even remotely come close to the Phantoms.

Still cant prove it, but I saw Salem 1998, Hampton, Phoebus 2008, 2009, 2010, live brother and they would not have won. For what its worth your announcer Three Putt (homer right?) says Hampton with Curry was the best high school team ever.

 

[southbottomU]

Salem offensive line 1998
Left tackle 6 7 315
Left guard. 6 2 255
Center 6 0 250
Right guard 6 1 250
Right tackle .6 5 305
Tight end. 6 2 .265

None of them played on defense
Tail back maybe the best athlete to come out of Salem 6 2 215 (started as a freshman, would go on to play linebacker at UVA and the Ravens).

Salem's middle linebacker was the two time 4a defensive player of the year.

Not to be picky that's an average of 273 counting the tight end

The original question was who would you like to see play. I would like to see Salem 98 vs. Hampton or Phoebus (any year). Did not make any claim on who would win. Unprovable.

Salem would lose 17 starters from that 98 team. However, the 99 team playing mostly with backups from the previous year went 14-0 and won another State Title.

What game did you see Salem play in 98?

 

[panther308]

I would put the 1981 and 82 GW Danville teams up against anyone. Would like to see them play the Phoebus powerhouse teams myself.

I know this may sound crazy, but the 2016 game between Salem and Dinwiddie was awesome. Very few stops by either team and great qb play. Would love to see that game again with a different result.

It was a great game Navy! The outcome was fine by the way!

 

[BleedingNavy]

Salem offensive line 1998
Left tackle 6 7 315
Left guard. 6 2 255
Center 6 0 250
Right guard 6 1 250
Right tackle .6 5 305
Tight end. 6 2 .265

None of them played on defense
Tail back maybe the best athlete to come out of Salem 6 2 215 (started as a freshman, would go on to play linebacker at UVA and the Ravens).

Salem's middle linebacker was the two time 4a defensive player of the year.

Not to be picky that's an average of 273 counting the tight end

The original question was who would you like to see play. I would like to see Salem 98 vs. Hampton or Phoebus (any year). Did not make any claim on who would win. Unprovable.

Salem would lose 17 starters from that 98 team. However, the 99 team playing mostly with backups from the previous year went 14-0 and won another State Title.

What game did you see Salem play in 98?

This is a useless argument. I got my stats on the o line from a news article about the 1998 salem championship game.

Nice attempt to discredit me, but my dad and I saw Salem play Northside in October. It was my sisters 30 birthday party weekend. Believe Salem shut out Northside and scored around 18 points. That was a long time ago. Just remember Salem pounded the ball up the middle all game long. If my memory serves me right Northside was not having a good year.

Yeah, it was a different era all right. Coach White passed more in the early 80's with Comer at PH. In 1998 Salem was big and the teams they played were much smaller. They just ran dives right over people. Cant blame him, but my initial point was Salem could not have done that against Phoebus 2008. So no, i doubt you would really want to see that matchup.

I am no expert, but I started watching hs football in the Roanoke area in 1971. I moved to the Richmond area in 1989, but have attended a lot of games in 540, 434, 757 and 804 since. I am capable of comparing the talent from these areas fairly well and can honestly say I have never seen any more talented teams than the Curry led Hampton and Phoebus dynasty era. Please dont tell me about teamwork and discipline. The 1981 Coach White PH team had it and my choice of the best team ever GW Danville took us out. Southbottom, I respect the heck out of Salem football and your opinion, so I am going to simply say we will never know.

 

[BleedingNavy]

It was a great game Navy! The outcome was fine by the way!

You would say that Panther. Good night for you guys and a long ride home for me. Hell, I dont need the whole game just 30 more seconds. Lol

 

[mbonape1]

No disrespect to you bottom or Salem. Appreciate your allegiance to the Spartans. I have seen every team discussed live except for the Amherst teams and without a doubt Hampton and Phoebus would have beaten Salems 1998 team. The early 1980 GW Danville teams probably would have done the same. Just my opinion though. No way to ever prove it, but I think Coach White would agree on the 1982 GW team as he played them.

Just my opinion but the 1998 Salem team would not have beaten the 1998 Hampton team or the 1998 14-0 CD Hylton 6a champion. Salem certainly had an amazing team that year but we have to remember that was a time when VA HSFB was at its peak across both 5a-6a. The hylton and Hampton teams had plenty of players that made a major impact at big time schools and a few also played in the NFL. No way to know for sure and not trying to throw any shade.

Food for thought, just posing the question... Would the 98 Salem team been able to beat the 2016 Spartans if Ramsey would have been on the team the whole season? IDK, but I know I am not the most qualified to answer that one. @mike salem what do you think?

 

[freeatlast2013]

This is a useless argument. I got my stats on the o line from a news article about the 1998 salem championship game.

Nice attempt to discredit me, but my dad and I saw Salem play Northside in October. It was my sisters 30 birthday party weekend. Believe Salem shut out Northside and scored around 18 points. That was a long time ago. Just remember Salem pounded the ball up the middle all game long. If my memory serves me right Northside was not having a good year.

Yeah, it was a different era all right. Coach White passed more in the early 80's with Comer at PH. In 1998 Salem was big and the teams they played were much smaller. They just ran dives right over people. Cant blame him, but my initial point was Salem could not have done that against Phoebus 2008. So no, i doubt you would really want to see that matchup.

I am no expert, but I started watching hs football in the Roanoke area in 1971. I moved to the Richmond area in 1989, but have attended a lot of games in 540, 434, 757 and 804 since. I am capable of comparing the talent from these areas fairly well and can honestly say I have never seen any more talented teams than the Curry led Hampton and Phoebus dynasty era. Please dont tell me about teamwork and discipline. The 1981 Coach White PH team had it and my choice of the best team ever GW Danville took us out. Southbottom, I respect the heck out of Salem football and your opinion, so I am going to simply say we will never know.

Good post Navy. You are right. Salem did not play the same kind of competition. That being said they were very stout and talented. I think if you had that team with the way they play today with keeping other team off balance they would have stood more of a chance but I remember a stout William Fleming bunch with Lee Suggs that got smacked in the mouth by Hampton. You have to give Salem credit and I know you do but I am not sure Salem could have beat those teams. If I am not mistaken those Northside teams had two young linebackers, one who went to UVA and one to UCLA..

 

[mbonape1]

To answer @DanvilleSportsHead original question I will go with the 1996 or 1997 Hampton crabbers against the 2004 Landstown Eagles (Percy Harvin’s jr year.)

What a game that would be!

 

[freeatlast2013]

Just my opinion but the 1998 Salem team would not have beaten the 1998 Hampton team or the 1998 14-0 CD Hylton 6a champion. Salem certainly had an amazing team that year but we have to remember that was a time when VA HSFB was at its peak across both 5a-6a. The hylton and Hampton teams had plenty of players that made a major impact at big time schools and a few also played in the NFL. No way to know for sure and not trying to throw any shade.

Food for thought, just posing the question... Would the 98 Salem team been able to beat the 2016 Spartans if Ramsey would have been on the team the whole season? IDK, but I know I am not the most qualified to answer that one. @mike salem what do you think?

I think it has to do with style of play. Dennis Haley was 6'3" 220 and ran a 4.45 40. He later played at UVA and was a linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens. He played halfback and strong safety for that 98 team.

 

[mike salem]

Just my opinion but the 1998 Salem team would not have beaten the 1998 Hampton team or the 1998 14-0 CD Hylton 6a champion. Salem certainly had an amazing team that year but we have to remember that was a time when VA HSFB was at its peak across both 5a-6a. The hylton and Hampton teams had plenty of players that made a major impact at big time schools and a few also played in the NFL. No way to know for sure and not trying to throw any shade.

Food for thought, just posing the question... Would the 98 Salem team been able to beat the 2016 Spartans if Ramsey would have been on the team the whole season? IDK, but I know I am not the most qualified to answer that one. @mike salem what do you think?

Let me first preface my statement by saying I was in the Lynchburg area in 98 and never saw that Salem team. So I'm by no means the expert to answer that question. Bleeding Navy, southbottomu, or 3Putt's insight into that question would be more pertinent than mine since they saw both teams. That being said, I would just say HS football has evolved a lot over the years. Teams are more balanced now, if not in yardage, then certainly in the run vs pass play ratio. These discussions are interesting, but there is really no way to know what would happen.

I think most Salem fans that have been around a while believe the 98 team was the best team Salem ever had. I think there has been a big change since the time I came to the Roa Valley in 01. Salem had a stretch from 96-00 where they won 4 of 5, then 2 in 04-05 when Coach Magenbaeur took the reins, long stretch of good but not championship teams, until the current 4 year stretch of championship appearances with 3 titles.

From 08-12 the NOVA teams (BR & BW) put C4 at a different level. Then reclassification in 13 stepped C4 up again with the addition of Tidewater and Richmond schools from C5. It's possible things could step up again next year with the addition of Tuscarora and Hampton.

Defenses now may not seem as impressive when a good team gives up an average of 14 to 20 ppg when in 98 they gave up 5, but offenses have evolved and the defensive game has had to adjust to that. I guess the easiest way to answer the question is different eras and there were excellent teams then and now. There is just no way to really compare.

 

[southbottomU]

Was making no attempt to discredit you. The article you were referring to came out of Williamsburg. It was incorrect when it came to the size of the Salem players.

 

[CavsGrad]

To answer @DanvilleSportsHead original question I will go with the 1996 or 1997 Hampton crabbers against the 2004 Landstown Eagles (Percy Harvin’s jr year.)

What a game that would be!

Harvin was the most dynamic player I've seen in the last 20 yrs at the high school level. I'd like to see that matchup as well, but only with dry conditions. I don't think Landstown could score enough in sloppy conditions, similar to the championship game his senior year when they played in the wet/cold conditions against Oakton and took a beating.

 

[southbottomU]

I think it has to do with style of play. Dennis Haley was 6'3" 220 and ran a 4.45 40. He later played at UVA and was a linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens. He played halfback and strong safety for that 98 team.

Haley did not play defense on 98 team. He played linebacker on 99 team.

 

[southbottomU]

Just my opinion but the 1998 Salem team would not have beaten the 1998 Hampton team or the 1998 14-0 CD Hylton 6a champion. Salem certainly had an amazing team that year but we have to remember that was a time when VA HSFB was at its peak across both 5a-6a. The hylton and Hampton teams had plenty of players that made a major impact at big time schools and a few also played in the NFL. No way to know for sure and not trying to throw any shade.

Food for thought, just posing the question... Would the 98 Salem team been able to beat the 2016 Spartans if Ramsey would have been on the team the whole season? IDK, but I know I am not the most qualified to answer that one. @mike salem what do you think?

This past years team at Salem would have had trouble moving the ball against 98 Salem. But I think that would be true no matter who Salem 98 played. Salem 98 was not that explosive on offense. They did not feel that they had to be. For example on 3rd and 8 Salem would probably run off tackle. If they didn't make it they would punt (great punter) . The opposition would go three and out and Salem would begin their grind again. Think the old Ohio St teams under Woody Hayes. Awesome defense,. Grind it out offense.

 

[southbottomU]

This is a useless argument. I got my stats on the o line from a news article about the 1998 salem championship game.

Nice attempt to discredit me, but my dad and I saw Salem play Northside in October. It was my sisters 30 birthday party weekend. Believe Salem shut out Northside and scored around 18 points. That was a long time ago. Just remember Salem pounded the ball up the middle all game long. If my memory serves me right Northside was not having a good year.

Yeah, it was a different era all right. Coach White passed more in the early 80's with Comer at PH. In 1998 Salem was big and the teams they played were much smaller. They just ran dives right over people. Cant blame him, but my initial point was Salem could not have done that against Phoebus 2008. So no, i doubt you would really want to see that matchup.

I am no expert, but I started watching hs football in the Roanoke area in 1971. I moved to the Richmond area in 1989, but have attended a lot of games in 540, 434, 757 and 804 since. I am capable of comparing the talent from these areas fairly well and can honestly say I have never seen any more talented teams than the Curry led Hampton and Phoebus dynasty era. Please dont tell me about teamwork and discipline. The 1981 Coach White PH team had it and my choice of the best team ever GW Danville took us out. Southbottom, I respect the heck out of Salem football and your opinion, so I am going to simply say we will never know.

Was not trying to discredit you. The article you used came from Williamsburg paper. They were not that familiar with Salem. They got the size incorrect. My numbers are correct.
One other thing to consider was that Salem had a great kicking game. Great punter and excellent kicker.
One other point. People remember the size of Salem but they also had excellent speed. The right side defensive end was the State championship in the intermediate hurdles. The corners we're 4.4/5 and played bump and run (think Lake Taylor). The wide receiver was very similar in size and play to the receiver Salem had this year but Salem that year rarely threw more than 5 times in any game

 

[mbonape1]

This past years team at Salem would have had trouble moving the ball against 98 Salem. But I think that would be true no matter who Salem 98 played. Salem 98 was not that explosive on offense. They did not feel that they had to be. For example on 3rd and 8 Salem would probably run off tackle. If they didn't make it they would punt (great punter) . The opposition would go three and out and Salem would begin their grind again. Think the old Ohio St teams under Woody Hayes. Awesome defense,. Grind it out offense.

So it’s seems like amongst the Salem faithful it is common belief that the 98 squad was the best Salem team far and away. The 2016 team beat a loaded Dinwiddie team without Ramsey who was their best player. I think as Mike said the talent level in 4a was stronger recently. For example my school was in D5 with only 1200-1300 students. The difference between the classes was more drastic back then. Now I do agree the 98 team was the most dominant unquestionably. But again you would no better than me, I just thought I would raise the question. The 2016 team played a perfect state championship game without their “secretariat”.

 

[mbonape1]

Harvin was the most dynamic player I've seen in the last 20 yrs at the high school level. I'd like to see that matchup as well, but only with dry conditions. I don't think Landstown could score enough in sloppy conditions, similar to the championship game his senior year when they played in the wet/cold conditions against Oakton and took a beating.

I was at that game too... it was cold but not wet. I sat one row in front of Darrel Green bc his son was on Oakton. Oakton took them behind the woodshed fair and square. They had the best power rushing team I ever saw and keep in mind I see LC Bird ever year. They had kieth Payne and 2 big white kids that were full backs that were like Tom Rathman. Landstown’s speed didn’t matter. It was no stopping that train!

 

[mike salem]

So it’s seems like amongst the Salem faithful it is common belief that the 98 squad was the best Salem team far and away. The 2016 team beat a loaded Dinwiddie team without Ramsey who was their best player. I think as Mike said the talent level in 4a was stronger recently. For example my school was in D5 with only 1200-1300 students. The difference between the classes was more drastic back then. Now I do agree the 98 team was the most dominant unquestionably. But again you would no better than me, I just thought I would raise the question. The 2016 team played a perfect state championship game without their “secretariat”.

Salem had one of the best game managers I have ever seen. (Normally it's not complimentary to call a QB a game manager, but I mean this as the biggest compliment) The squad played nearly perfectly and Noah Beckley was the unquestioned offensive leader. On defense Riley Fox was the leader. So many big plays by so many great players that played a nearly perfect game as a team. Dinwiddie played an amazing game as well. Salem has played in many big games over the years, but imo this was the best game that they've ever played. IMO this was also my favorite game of all time. I got to see and meet so many of my Preps family, got to see an amazing game with my brother and nephews, and got to enjoy the outcome with the Salem players, coaches, and fans. (Sorry BN & DP, not trying to rub salt in an old wound) I think if Navy had been on the sideline on the 4th down play, he would have tried a Woody Hayes on Beckley!

 

[CavsGrad]

I was at that game too... it was cold but not wet. I sat one row in front of Darrel Green bc his son was on Oakton. Oakton took them behind the woodshed fair and square. They had the best power rushing team I ever saw and keep in mind I see LC Bird ever year. They had kieth Payne and 2 big white kids that were full backs that were like Tom Rathman. Landstown’s speed didn’t matter. It was no stopping that train!

They did. I knew the game was on when one of the full backs dropped a sledge hammer when they took the field. I'm almost certain that it snowed that week and the game may have been moved to Hampton for that reason. It may not have been raining that day, but the field was nasty. Keith Payne shadowed Harvin all day and the other weapon for Landstown (McDaniels?) was dealing with turf toe. Oakton had the perfect game plan and personnel.

 

[mbonape1]

They did. I knew the game was on when one of the full backs dropped a sledge hammer when they took the field. I'm almost certain that it snowed that week and the game may have been moved to Hampton for that reason. It may not have been raining that day, but the field was nasty. Keith Payne shadowed Harvin all day and the other weapon for Landstown (McDaniels?) was dealing with turf toe. Oakton had the perfect game plan and personnel.

Yes it was in Hampton and Oakton had some tough kids!

 

[1MoreHokie]

Salem was a really good team in the 90s but '98 defined the mystique that the program carries with it to this day. Salem only won their first title in '96 and before then suffered agonizing losses, continually coming up short (2 state title losses, 2 other possible titles lost due to superstar players going down) in the hunt for state, up to and including Richlands cheating to beat Salem but never being punished for it. '98 was where Salem became "Salem" and the start of the three-peat, which was incredibly rare in state history then, only Hampton had accomplished it before Salem.

'98 itself was an anachronism. The team would function as well or better today, they weren't fast for the 90s, they were fast period. Their size has never come close to being replicated on a Salem team since then and 20 years ago you did not find 5 random kids in a small city with that size and have them all play together, it just didn't happen. There was an article I'll never forget from the Roanoke Times comparing Salem's OL to the 1998 Broncos OL: Salem was about 30 pounds and an inch or two smaller on the interior and BIGGER on both ends.

All of that is why older Salem fans will forever instantly go to '98 on this stuff. The offense didn't blow you away but it didn't have to because you could have played for 8 quarters and it would have been a minor miracle to put 7 up against that D. The reality is 2015 is probably better. Modern offenses are just superior and Salem had a ridiculously balanced attack that was only ever slowed in the title game but it was backed by an equally good defense which shut down everyone they played including a JF offense that scored 647 points in that year and a LT offense that scored 674 (and routed them in state a year ago). 2015 Salem was the most complete Salem team there's ever been.