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- Thread starter DinwiddieProud
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4B needs 17 teams because? 4D needs 15 teams because? Meanwhile A and C sitting here in joke divisions with 9 and 10 teams respectively. Foolishness.
I agree that it would be better if it was a little better balanced. But, the realignment committee had the unenviable task of persuading schools to switch regions. Very few member schools were willing to do that.
Split things evenly (12-13 per), get rid of this 8 team junk and you can improve the quality of week 1 games and dangle a carrot for the top two seeds in the form of a bye. You're immediately into good matchups in week 1 and the 1/8 and 2/7 don't need to waste anyone's time. Parity doesn't run deep enough in this state to support 8 team playoffs in these divisions. How many 1/8 upsets have there been across all classes in recent years anyway? One, two tops? 2/7 can't be far behind either. In a 12-13 team division you can cut the fat immediately with a six team playoff setup and if all the divisions did this then everyone would be on a common ground come regional finals/semis/finals.
I agree, most of the time the 7-8 seed have terrible records. No reason for them to be in the playoffs. Losing record, it wasn’t earned
Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but IF Glass beats JF, AND Millbrook beats Jefferson, WV, then depending on rider points from opponents wins, Millbrook would likely lead slightly over Glass and JF, with Salem 4th. If Millbrook lost they would fall to 4th behind Glass, JF, and Salem. If JF beat Glass and Millbrook lost then it would be JF, Salem, Millbrook, and Glass.
I've been saying for yrs that most first round games are over by halftime.
Oh, agreed. But at least in a six team playoff those 3/6 and 4/5 will be solid round one fodder. Ratings don't always tell the truth but like, look at 4C. Champe and Tuscy stand above but everyone below is clumped together pretty tight (and if you compare schedules and results they would agree) so you can get some good round one games as a focal point and ignore the typical 1/8 and 2/7 slaughters that permeate the usual round one schedules.
On a side note, it's crazy that two of the top five teams in C4 won't play more than 13 games and one of them won't play more than 12. Like, if POs were next week the first round 3/6 is Varina and Dinwiddie, that'd be wild that one of those teams, more than qualified to win it all, would go home instantly. Finals will be interesting just because will the buzzsaw that is 4B actually matter in the end. A lot of people love to say that iron sharpens iron but it can also wear it out all the same. Sometimes you've got Bama beating a rogue's gallery of ranked SEC opponents en route to a title and sometimes you've got Clemson who just hangs in the back with a less difficult schedule and executes perfectly in just one or two games when it matters most and wins the title nonetheless.
How is 4B going to shake out anyway? I'm guessing KG has the 1 locked. EV has Courtland and KG still (am I crazy to think Courtland beats EV?) so let's say they finish 8-2 and so does Courtland. Varina hits 8-2, too. I'm gonna say Dinwiddie takes it in week 10 over Matoaca and finishes 7-3. Huguenot will lose to Midlo and finish 7-2.
Has anyone even attempted that madness yet or are they waiting a week or two more to see if things shake out more clearly. Feels like Varina would squeeze in at #2 but that's all I can sense. One of EV or Courtland seems destined to have Dinwiddie and the other lucks out with Huguenot. Would Dinwiddie get out-pointed by EV/Courtland/Huguenot in the above scenario? Where Dinwiddie slides actually determines a lot because, assuming we go on the current narrative (Phoebus wins A, Salem wins D and semis), either KG or Varina or Dinwiddie could potentially end up playing the entirety of the consensus top 5 in the state, about as hard a road to manage as you could possibly make.
Has anyone even attempted that madness yet or are they waiting a week or two more to see if things shake out more clearly. Feels like Varina would squeeze in at #2 but that's all I can sense. One of EV or Courtland seems destined to have Dinwiddie and the other lucks out with Huguenot. Would Dinwiddie get out-pointed by EV/Courtland/Huguenot in the above scenario? Where Dinwiddie slides actually determines a lot because, assuming we go on the current narrative (Phoebus wins A, Salem wins D and semis), either KG or Varina or Dinwiddie could potentially end up playing the entirety of the consensus top 5 in the state, about as hard a road to manage as you could possibly make.
The VHSL should show some backbone and take over the decision maker when it comes to assigning teams to districts and regions and teams fall where they fall and play who they should play. Non-district games then you play everyone in your district and so on.
And for regionals, I'm fine with an eight team setup and would even would be fine with that if we dropped to 5A (60 teams per class with just over half of them making the playoffs). If we went to 4A (75 teams per class), I think eight teams would still be fine per region. In 3A (100 teams per class), I think 16 teams per region would be good with roughly 64% making the playoffs.
I think the main question is are state titles watered down because you only have 50-59 schools or so in your class eligible to win one? I know states where you have to outlast over 100 schools to win a state title.
Again, my argument is that you assign districts by location and enrollment. two or four districts per region (doesn't matter as long as it's uniform across all classes), top two in each district (if four districts) or top four in each district (if two districts) in each region make the playoffs based on district record. The first two tiebreakers can be head-to-head/mini district followed by point differential if it needs to go that far. This way 117 year old Edna in Charlottesville doesn't have to break out the abacus every weekend to calculate the points. This also makes district championships matter (cue the "we don't care about district championships" crowd who also complain about not enough teams being able to make the playoffs).
15 games max if we stay at 6 classes or even drop down to 5 or 4. 16 games max if we go back to 3 classes. Conclude the season with state championship Friday and Saturday at one location the weekend before Christmas. That gives the VHSL one centralized location for staffing to make the event a big deal.
When you have a lot of non-sports people from academia "running" the VHSL, no wonder why the simple solutions are often overlooked.
EV/KG gonna be a huge game for Region B as well as Dinwiddie vs. Mataoca and Varina’s games against HS and Herm.
Not sure about the former (just think KG will roll) but agree with the rest. I'm ignorant of Richmond schools, is Varina/Herm a rivalry game?
Huguenot vs Bird will be another game with some impact.
As will Courtland/EV in the last week of the regular season.
Who you taking Bo in EV/KG?
I’m going with KG too but I’m interested cause I’m hearing EV is a tough place to play. We’ll see.
Highland Springs is Varina’s biggest rival. There’s mutual respect because those schools make up the entire East End of the county and most of those kids grow up together. Herm and Varina hate each other. No love there at all.
DP I’m leaning towards KG. Still think EV is probably a little better than Courtland but we’ll see. It’ll help that the game’s in Culpeper.
Ran their numbers (easy since it's a new school). 18 of 44 losses at home (41%), doesn't seem too out of line with what I'd expect for most anywhere else, frankly. 8-2 at home in the playoffs but worth mentioning they've only ever played 3 second round games at home (and never hosted a regional final) and they were 1-2 in those (7-49 to Woodgrove in 2013, 28-24 over Chancellor in 2016, 17-25 to Dinwiddie in 2019). Their district and scheduling basically guarantees they're always on the road at some point in the playoffs.
What's wrong with the seniors getting one more game to play. Most will never strap on a helmet again. Pick-up basketball is a thing. Baseball/softball can be played forever. You can play golf and tennis forever. But football? No, football is another breed of animal. I say let them play all they can now. And the 1's and 2's winning the blowout? Good chance it's the last time those back-ups get to play for the season (and career for some seniors). Again, let them play. Just my 2 cents.
I will be at Eastern View at Spotsylvania tomorrow. Praying for a running clock because if I'm going to watch bad football, I want it to be over as quick as possible.
This will be my first time seeing Eastern View. I've seen Courtland twice.
Does Courtland have any playmakers to make any noise? The 21-14 loss to KG tells me yes but I haven’t seen them in person.
For me, Powhatan and PH Ashland, hell even Henrico have the teams to give the top 4 seeds fits… Just very few playmakers to pull any upsets.
Region B is one of the few regions (5C as well) that all 8 seeds are good and anything can happen.
No real playmakers, just physical running backs that get 3.34 yards per carry. LOL. Decent defense.
You are correct @OCBoy. I like to watch him play backer. He is old school for sure and hits like a truck. Last year he struggled a bit getting off blocks, but I am sure he has improved in that area. I honestly don't know much about his offensive prowess. I saw run on short yardage a few times and make some nice catches. Very physical!
They can be physical and grind and wear teams down if Hall sticks to the game plan and doesn't try to get cute. A huge crutch for Courtland is that their offense is not built to score quickly. Despite this, if I'm Courtland, I would have a 40-to-1 run/pass selection because the team has athletes better suited for that offense. In this day and age, there are way too many teams at the high school level with coaches who watch NFL games and think they can have their high school teams run a spread offense. I'm not saying that's what Courtland does. I'm just making then point that you have to play with the hand you're dealt.
If they are in a late game situation, a sense of urgency to play from behind does not resonate with the offense. In addition, their quarterback isn't very good. And if you watch him before delivering a pass, his wind-up motion takes forever and any talented rusher on defense should have an easier time closing in for pressure. The quarterback is not a pocket passer so they feel the need to roll him out. This, combined with the glacial release of his passes, makes him ineffective for the most part.
Defensively, they are decent on the exterior in pass coverage but tend to leave the middle of the field wide open. King George scored two of their three touchdowns along the sidelines, but it took athleticism to make those plays. There were certainly no gimmies. Courtland does a pretty good job against the run with their interior linemen and linebackers.
It is for a few reasons...
1st being when Varina was 5C these two would be battling for seeding...
2nd being when Hermitage was being built into a competitive program under Coach Kane the Panthers like so many teams measured their success to if you could beat Varina.
3rd Varina dominated early in the 2000's but in the late 2000's Hermitage had a stretch of success and now the momentum is with Varina.
4th being the banter that went back and forth b/w players and coaches after the game was ppd following weather earlier this season and was unsure if would be made up. A lot of finger pointing and accusations made which just amps this game up.
Keep in mind regions are formed not due by balance but geographically. I remember the old days when the Eastern Region, Central Region & Northern Region were huge and Northwestern Region was half the size of those.
Last year I overheard a conversation where someone within the VHSL, not naming names referenced they were not in favor of the 8-team playoff because the 1 v. 8 and most cases 2 v. 7 are so lopsided. They made the case for a 6-team playoff but I don't think anything will ever come of it.
Now what is another interesting thought is if you are going to do 8-team playoff, why not have the requirement that you must be .500 or above to make the playoffs. That way you don't get a 3-7 team facing a 10-0 or 9-1 squad.
Good stuff. I’ve seen EV once in person and that was the 2019 year you speak of. They came to Louisa and sent them home. I watched a little film on EV and they’re not as strong as they were then but they have a really good young offensive minded coach plus probably the best linebacker in the state. They’d challenge Glass and Salem if they were 4D which I don’t see why they aren’t.
The flip side of reducing the playoffs to 6 is that you take away the opportunity of most seniors on the 7 and 8 seeds to have one last game. Like was said elsewhere in another thread, for the vast majority of kids, when their senior season ends, that’s it for football, for the rest of their lives. Is eliminating lopsided games the better answer?
Dan, I would go a bit further than what you suggest about .500 teams only but I know this idea has virtually no chance of success. No regions once you get to the playoffs-use regions only for scheduling, similar to what we do now. Take the top 32 teams in each class statewide regardless of regions and hold a statewide playoff over five weeks. Yes, there are going to be long bus rides and reduced gate proceeds, and this issue has been discussed ad nauseum before. There will also be comments about Team A from Region X (who got left out at 4-6) is better than Team B from Region Y (at 5-5) simply because of the qaulity of the overall area, but that happens already with other sports. At the very least, go back to the two regions (North/South or East/West) and take the top 16 teams in each. The reason I suggest this concept is that taking only .500 teams (justifiable) means the top teams are often going to get byes due to the potential for numbers other than 8 or 16 or 32 required for a balanced bracket and I don't believe a lot of coaches like the idea a good team gets an extra week to prepare, or that a good team has a non-game week at that point in the season.
Well I don't think your idea will make it far because of the long bus rides you alluded to. I mean anyone that drives sees the rising cost of gas and with this mess in the Middle East and Qatar threatening to cut off gas supplies to the world... while a short term issue (hopefully) expense and logistics of travel could grow worse and I don't see any county or school system dropping money for electric busses.
Gonna disagree. I think Salem would wholesale slaughter EV this year (and most years tbh). They play such an incredibly weak schedule they often just crumble under the first sign of pressure against a real team in the POs. I just think a sound, disciplined team like Salem is all sorts of problems for a team like EV. Also think Glass would beat them this year but it'd be a tighter game (I'd take Glass by 13-14).
Also FWIW they did use to be in 4D for a time, I was always hoping Salem would run into them but it just never happened.
You make a great point. I think the lack of physicality in the Battlefield along with the persistent regression of the district has not allowed Eastern View to get ready for the arduous postseason. Remember that for awhile, Culpeper County was a non-district game as CCHS flirted with their Northwestern District experiment and the on again/off again Battlefield relationship. So Eastern View had to burn a non-district game playing Culpeper County...and for at least a couple of seasons, played them twice.
Eastern View needs to do a bit better job of scheduling their non-district games to better prepare for what they will see in the playoffs. I will give them a mulligan on playing what ended up being a bad North Stafford team this year. But they've played the likes of Brentsville District in the past and Westmoreland this season and that's not going to cut the mustard preparing for Region 4B opponents.
Geographically, they aren't very far from the Prince William and Loudoun County lines. Brooke Point was a nice win for them this season but they should try to max out Class 5 and maybe even Class 6 opponents up north when scheduling non-district games in the future.
After watching Eastern View last night, I would favor them against Courtland. Courtland isn't built to keep up with an offense like Eastern View even if they run the ball heavily like they did against King George.
I was impressed with their quarterback who can throw the ball at least 55 yards in the air. He's also a pocket passer. Eastern View should have beaten Spotsylvania 70-0. They won 49-7 despite dropping at least four passes including having a tipped pass picked off deep in Spotsylvania territory.
I will say that Spotsylvania's effort was nothing short of hot garbage so that didn't help things out. So the 35-0 loss to Courtland followed by their 49-7 loss last night isn't truly an apples-to-apples comparison as to who is really better. The only thing that helped out Spotsylvania was the fact that Eastern View got up 35-0 before Halftime and we had a glorious running clock in the Second Half to allow fans to go home early from the debacle. Spotsylvania visits King George in two weeks and I'm looking forward to the Knights' fifth running clock game so we can all have an early ride home.
As for their future matchup against King George, I would see Eastern View winning that game IF King George plays like they did against Courtland. King George has better overall athletes and maybe a little more size. I do like Eastern View's scheme better though as they are more balanced compared to King George who are dependent on athletes making big plays. However, if King George plays like we know they are capable of playing, I think they win by two scores. Eastern View wins by a score if they get a bit of help from King George. If Eastern View drops four passes like they did last night, they might get rolled though as King George is the type of team to make you pay for those mistakes.
I was impressed with their quarterback who can throw the ball at least 55 yards in the air. He's also a pocket passer. Eastern View should have beaten Spotsylvania 70-0. They won 49-7 despite dropping at least four passes including having a tipped pass picked off deep in Spotsylvania territory.
I will say that Spotsylvania's effort was nothing short of hot garbage so that didn't help things out. So the 35-0 loss to Courtland followed by their 49-7 loss last night isn't truly an apples-to-apples comparison as to who is really better. The only thing that helped out Spotsylvania was the fact that Eastern View got up 35-0 before Halftime and we had a glorious running clock in the Second Half to allow fans to go home early from the debacle. Spotsylvania visits King George in two weeks and I'm looking forward to the Knights' fifth running clock game so we can all have an early ride home.
As for their future matchup against King George, I would see Eastern View winning that game IF King George plays like they did against Courtland. King George has better overall athletes and maybe a little more size. I do like Eastern View's scheme better though as they are more balanced compared to King George who are dependent on athletes making big plays. However, if King George plays like we know they are capable of playing, I think they win by two scores. Eastern View wins by a score if they get a bit of help from King George. If Eastern View drops four passes like they did last night, they might get rolled though as King George is the type of team to make you pay for those mistakes.
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AP Hull has put on some size from last year and definitely can sling it. He’s only a sophomore.
lol who's taking out starters after one quarter. No wonder EV can't do damage in the playoffs, they barely play during the season.
