not looking for discussion here just posting the stats. louisa 16-0 at half. sloppy again with 9 penalties and another personal foul for late hit out of bounds. they better wake up before its to late. that may have been a unsportsman penalty.
louisa v kettle run
- Thread starter racindan4u
- Start date
This ain't all on us, this is disgraceful officiating, as I said in the other thread. Always heard about funny things going on here.
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These nova refs call every ticky tack thing there is... not saying a personal foul is ticky tack but it’s all the little crap that gets a team fired up
I'm glad Jarett Hunter, Alex Washington and Kalup Shelton put these plays in their highlight videos. Many of them were called back with late flags for "holding". You guys decide!
Edit: videos removed.
Edit: videos removed.
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Could you be more specific on which plays were called back (video and time into it). I only saw one penalty.
@VAHSFootballFan literally nearly all of those plays were called back, including the TDs, and I don't see holding. The one play in the first video where you do see the flag thrown, it's close. At the 39 second mark of the second video, look where the 3rd down marker is. The first play of the third video, which is the play I mentioned in this thread's 4th post, was called back for holding, even though KR jumped offside and wasn't called for that. Maybe one play looks questionable in the three videos combined!
@Louisadad do you have our penalty stats?
It ticks me off, because this game was a mismatch from the opening kickoff, and should've been over at half with the backups playing the whole second half. Instead, the starters played most of the game, and two linemen got injured! I guess those officials are happy.
@Louisadad do you have our penalty stats?
It ticks me off, because this game was a mismatch from the opening kickoff, and should've been over at half with the backups playing the whole second half. Instead, the starters played most of the game, and two linemen got injured! I guess those officials are happy.
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The first play of the first video has blatant block in the back, not sure if that's called.
The actual flagged play in the first video :20 in is clear holding by a WR and two different refs saw it, just because you see him eventually release after the runner is past him doesn't make that not holding. That one is unquestionably holding.
Didn't see any in the second video.
Third video first play is questionable but understandable. I think it's most likely on the OG blocking #56 for KR. You see the jersey grabbed and the DT's arm go up which is what draws eyes to a lot of refs and gets a holding flag, and that's something you hear them talk about in the NFL when they're looking at a flagged call, the arm going up when the body is twisting away. Won't say that's definitely holding but the call is at least understandable. Also, no offsides there. You can enter the neutral zone as a defender provided you don't initiate contact with an offensive player or provoke a reaction like causing a lineman to move (that's a neutral zone infraction), defender jumped over but was back before the snap so no offsides.
So I'd say in total one definite hold, one questionable one, one bad call. Seems like a roll of the dice night for most teams, nothing too unusual. Holding penalties are a crapshoot anyway since they're usually all over the field, just depends on how much your crew wants to call it.
The actual flagged play in the first video :20 in is clear holding by a WR and two different refs saw it, just because you see him eventually release after the runner is past him doesn't make that not holding. That one is unquestionably holding.
Didn't see any in the second video.
Third video first play is questionable but understandable. I think it's most likely on the OG blocking #56 for KR. You see the jersey grabbed and the DT's arm go up which is what draws eyes to a lot of refs and gets a holding flag, and that's something you hear them talk about in the NFL when they're looking at a flagged call, the arm going up when the body is twisting away. Won't say that's definitely holding but the call is at least understandable. Also, no offsides there. You can enter the neutral zone as a defender provided you don't initiate contact with an offensive player or provoke a reaction like causing a lineman to move (that's a neutral zone infraction), defender jumped over but was back before the snap so no offsides.
So I'd say in total one definite hold, one questionable one, one bad call. Seems like a roll of the dice night for most teams, nothing too unusual. Holding penalties are a crapshoot anyway since they're usually all over the field, just depends on how much your crew wants to call it.
I believe in high school once you cross into the neutral zone it is encroachment, no contact or reaction necessary. We can post in Ask The Refs.
I've noticed teams are putting their backers a little off the line so if they jump they dont enter the neutral zone.
I think the penalties were there and KR is good at selling the calls. The play where you see the flags come in they arent thrown until the kid falls to the ground after taking three steps after disengaging from the block.
You're probably right then, I'm not really as up on HS rules as college or pros. Never really got the sense in needing 3 distinct rulebooks, like in this case I have no idea why that needs to be encroachment without contact or reaction. In college or the pros it's a skill gained by the center and/or QB to see this and be able to snap the ball quickly to get the offsides call, would like it done that way in HS.
Still can't see any flag thrown in the 2nd video. 3rd video first play 56 is clearly being held in the middle. Pause it at :06 and the O-lineman clearly is grabbing the "5" on the back of D-lineman's jersey.
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Back in the day when I was a White Hat. I don’t think the rule has changed. Encroachment on the defense is when they enter the neutral zone. Contact does not have to be made. The neutral zone is 11 1/2 inch width of the football. The play is live it is not a dead ball foul.
You are CORRECT! In HIGH SCHOOL,any break of the neutral zone,the play is dead! There is no “free play” in high school football. If s lineman lines up in the neutral zone,he is immediately flagged. WRs always check before they are set,but lineman are blown dead immediately. It’s a safety precaution. No contact is necessary!!!
It’s done for protection! 3 rule books for 3 different levels! Hard to teach high school kids to keep 2 feet in bounds and catch them ball too. No money for instant replay at the HS level either!
I mean, the play in question is an edge rusher with nobody in front of him, there's nobody to protect from him. Don't really see the need to call that specific instance a penalty if he's back over the line and hasn't contacted or provoked a reaction from a lineman.
If he crossed into the neutral zone you call the penalty because that is the rule. However I'm guessing that he is set up a yard off the line so he doesn't jump over. Difficult to tell from that angle.
Or, the side judge (or is it linesman?) decided that since nothing happened not to call it. If this is the case he is a poor official in my opinion.
It doesn’t matter! Once in the neutral zone,by rule,the play is blown dead. They do not force high school officials to decide which flag to throw or which one not to throw. It’s just dead. If that same player gets to the quarterback and hurts him then the offensive coach is then raising hell as to why the play wasn’t stopped.
You're conflating two things. College and NFL defenders don't get an infinite amount of space to invade, just the neutral zone, and only pre-snap and without contacting a lineman or provoking a reaction from a lineman. The second they go past the neutral zone the play would be flagged and blown dead, quit acting like the pros just get a free hit on the QB and it's only blown dead after the hit happens. Your example is folly, that play would be flagged and blown dead literally every time in any division, I'm talking specifically about the same situation (an edge rusher who doesn't contact or provoke a reaction from a lineman) that is legal in college and the pros but illegal in HS and there's really no good reason you can come up with to suggest why the rule can't be the same in all 3 divisions.
It also wouldn't be a "decision" either. Offsides is a binary call, it either happens or it doesn't. The guy is either where he shouldn't be when the ball is snapped or he's on his side. It's not a judgement foul like holding or PI, it's a distinctly binary foul like illegal formation.
There IS A GOOD REASON! It’s written in Black & White. SAFETY! The same reason a kickoff is dead in the end zone....SAFETY IS FIRST! Up until 2015,it wasn’t a rule in every state. It’s nation wide now! In High School,all plays are dead once ANY PLAYER enters the neutral zone....OFFENSE or DEFENSE! There is NO grey area!
Wait til next year....more rules are coming for safety.
With all due respect I believe the 2 items being confused here are "What is the rule" vs "Why does the rule exist this way for high school". As @HooSprings stated, it is black and white in the rule book, NFHS says this is how it will be called.
Now, should that be the rule? That's a different conversation. But the fact remains it is the rule. Did the lineman enter the neutral zone on this play? I'm trusting the ref on this because of the camera angle.
I'm not arguing the rule doesn't exist, I'm arguing WHY and no, "safety" in this exact circumstance is a non-starter because there's nobody else involved. This is literally the only part that's different from college or the pros and it's dumb and makes zero sense whatsoever. There's no need for that part of the encroachment rule to exist. There has not in the history of the sport ever been an injury resulting from an edge rusher facing an empty space who jumps the neutral zone.
Actually... if you look it up,the rule exist at all three levels! It’s called unabated in college & the pros!
Calling it dumb is your opinion! To the 16 other states that ADDED IT in 2015....they don’t agree with you either! Every state has this rule!!
Wait till next year when national Federation of high schools implement no contact to the quarterback below the knee while he’s in the pocket
You didn't even watch the video, there's literally a zero percent chance the play in question is flagged in college or the pros, it's not part of the rulebook there. Unabated to the QB means they have left the neutral zone and continued past it, it means they're 3 feet in the freaking backfield, that has absolutely nothing to do with what we were originally talking about before you butted in.
However, if there were that rule in place (allowed to step back before the snap of the ball, as long as he was not unabated) then it is up to the official on that side to immediately judge if the play should be stopped or not. If he mis-judges then someone could get hurt. The fewer judgement calls the better, IMO.
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Eh, disagree. Safety is a bigger issue in the pros and college than HS by a rather large amount and they have not seen fit to change this rule and that's because the risk of injury in such a scenario is incredibly small.
You call it butting in....I call it facts you can’t handle! This is the rule in ALL 50 states! The final 16 states added it in 2015. It’s for SAFETY! Just like you can’t return a kickoff that goes in the end zone! You may not like the rule,but vhsl and NFHS doesn’t care if you like it or not! MORE SAFETY rules are on the way too!
We are not going to change the rule! As a matter of fact they adopted it in 16 more states in 2015 so that all 50 states do it now! It’s a national Federation rule, not a VHSL! You can argue till you’re blue in the face, but the fact is....it’s a rule for KIDS SAFETY.
I called it butting in because nothing you said was germane to the discussion and you still seem like you don't even grasp what FootballFan and I were discussing, you're just making weird rants about SAFETY and needlessly capitalizing every other word you type.
