New districts

Discussion in 'Class 4A (Fall)' started by freeatlast2013, May 3, 2018.

  1. freeatlast2013

    freeatlast2013 VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    I have not thought of Piedmont yet but I am sure somebody could help me but this is how I possibly see things.
    Seminole Heritage , Glass, Brookville, Liberty Christian, Rustburg, Amherst County, Jefferson Forest
    New River Pulaski County, Christiansburg, Blacksburg, Carrol County, Abingdon and possibly one other team.
    Blue Ridge Cave Spring, Hidden Valley, Lord Botetourt, Northside, Staunton River, Liberty
    River Ridge G.W. Danville, Salem, Patrick Henry, Franklin County, William Fleming, William Byrd.

    Seminole loses Liberty but has already gained Liberty Christian. No big travel issues
    New River Pulaski already travels to Roanoke 45 minutes to an hour but would have New River teams added in Carroll County and Abingdon who are already very good in certain sports.
    Blue Ridge adds Liberty which will be the longest trip to Bedford but does not have to travel too much.
    River Ridge Adds Franklin County, Danville, and Fleming and loses Pulaski, Hidden Valley and Cave Spring. Some travel added to Danville but subtracted with three new river teams in new district in Blacksburg, Christiansburg and Pulaski.

    I would like to see this tested for two years. Obviously, with the size of each district each locality and team would be able to play other teams outside of district.
     
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  2. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    I can see Franklin Co moving to the RRD, but not Danville. GW would fit better in the Seminole being an hour to Lynchburg than almost 2 hours to Roanoke. I have heard Cave Spring and Hidden Valley may be moving to the BRD and that might lead to Franklin Co filling a spot in the RRD. Christiansburg wanted to move a couple of years ago to a closer district, (3RD maybe?) but the VHSL voted it down. The only problem with a NRV district is finding 6 similarly sized schools within an hours proximity. I don't see a widespread change, but some teams may shuffle around a bit.
     
  3. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    Piedmont should be Tunstall, Bassett, Magna Vista, Dan River, Martinsville and Patrick County.

    Dogwood adds Rustburg.

    Seminole adds GW Danville and Halifax.

    Like to hear what @one man thinks about his Liberty Minutemen moving to the Blue Ridge with Staunton River.

    THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!
     
  4. one man

    one man VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    [​IMG] Hell to the nah! Don't care how many down years we have. The Seminole has been home for far too long. Don't be like SR and run to the Blue Ridge because you can't compete. Take pride in being a member of pretty solid athletics district. Travel wise it would probably be in the same ballpark, budget wise. Liberty has been in the Seminole since Glass, Amherst, Heritage and GW were all in the Western District with FC, PH, Halifax and Fleming. I vote to stay in the Seminole.
     
  5. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    LOL!!! The Man has spoken! No BRD for Liberty. Seminole is really one of those historic districts in VA. Every single team in that district had a moment of state dominance. I can’t say that about many districts here in VA.
     
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  6. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    The Seminole is the District of Champions, everybody has got one. You won't find that too many places in football.
     
  7. freeatlast2013

    freeatlast2013 VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    One man is fired up.
     
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  8. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    One of the message board members rejected the idea of Carroll being in the Piedmont (possibly 2 mountain ranges they’d have to go through to get to events) but I believe it makes a lot of sense. Their longest trip would be to Ringgold (about 6 Miles from the Danville airport on Route 58) which is 90 miles straight shot up 58 East. Their longest trip right now is 120 Miles to Low Moor. They have no business playing a bunch of 1a schools as they are the largest school in their district. They will be able to compete with the Bassett’s, Tunstall’s and Patrick County’s.
     
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  9. lyhsports

    lyhsports VaPreps Rookie
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    That is a very good point. They would be a good fit for the Piedmont in terms of competition. I wonder what the average traveling distance is for them in their current district.
     
  10. greyfox60

    greyfox60 VaPreps Rookie
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    Carroll County has been allowed to move down to the Three Rivers District. Although they are a 4A School, their schedule will be mostly 1A and 2A schools.
     
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  11. wikki

    wikki VaPreps All State
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    I agree Liberty should stay where they have been for so many years. LCA should move out
     
  12. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    Where would LCA go? Unless they moved down to 3a and moved with Rustburg to the Dogwood to make room for GW and Halifax (who will be 4a next cycle) in the Seminole? I say yes. LCA would dominate that district every year, IMO.I believe that all Lynchburg City teams should be in the Seminole but that move would make a lot of sense.
     
  13. lyhsports

    lyhsports VaPreps Rookie
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    LCA would definitely dominate the Dogwood. Especially in baseball. The other Seminole teams can’t even beat the baseball team right now. They are ranked #25 in the nation by USA Today.
     
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  14. lancerbob

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    I can't see liberty or rustburg leaving Seminole liberty's been around for ever an I can remember back in the day rustburg an Madison heights have a great love/hate relationship.....
    But I would like to se GW in Seminole Halifax not so much long drive an there usually not competitive.
     
  15. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    If Danville was to get in the Seminole, I’d say that it would be a top 4 best district in the state. Danville has had some very very good teams in the past 5 years but the soft schedule of the Piedmont has hurt them big time. It was the worst district in the state last year and it will probably be even worst this year IMO. Not preparing them for the big dog teams like Salem, Blacksburg, and Glass. You gain absolutely nothing out of beating Patrick County and Halifax 70-0. Realistically, GW’s middle school team would beat the varsity teams of the Piedmont with the exception of Franklin County and Magna Vista. That’s no exaggeration by any means! That’s just how bad the district is. GW needs to be in the Seminole if they want to win a state championship anytime soon. Danville has to stop being so stingy. Upgrade facilities and make the school system top priority..Invest in these kids..Forget saving a dollar here and there playing Bassett and Tunstall and play the big dogs.
     
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  16. freeatlast2013

    freeatlast2013 VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    I know districts have changed over the years around Roanoke and west. Some of that had to do with school changes or political changes. At times Salem has been in Roanoke Valley district, Blue Ridge and River ridge. There was Cave Spring splitting between Hidden Valley and Cave Spring. Salem splitting from Glenvar. When Mike posted about Seminole being district of championships I looked back and indeed each team currently in Seminole has at least one.

    Liberty 02
    Rustburg 90,00,03
    Glass 88
    Amherst 95,06,07
    Heritage 02
    Brookville 99,11,12
    Jefferson forest 92,93

    Around the Roanoke area the lineups for districts has changed but there still have been a few championships.



    Patrick henry 73 division 6
    Pulaski 92 division 6
    Glenvar 14 division 2
    Northside 09,13
    Blacksburg 77,89,16
    Salem 96,98,99,00,04,05,15,16,17

    The landscape has also changed. A few years ago when teams started playing down in the East the general word on here was that the East would dominate. They have not. No eastern team in 757 has won in division 3. In division 4 Lake Taylor won one in 14. In division 5 no 757 team has won since 12 and Westfield has won the last three in division 6. This is not to diminish the great players of eastern Virginia because there have been some great dynasties and players over the years and there certainly will be in the future. I thin k this has been very surprising to a lot of people.
     
    16 freeatlast2013, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  17. Jags101

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    It made more sense travelling wise for SR to move to the blue ridge, I heard LHS may be moving down to 2A, Any truth to that ?
     
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  18. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    Liberty's enrollment was 836 last spring.
    Rustburg's enrollment was 853.

    The cutoff between 2 & 3 was around 770-785 last alignment.

    LCA's adjusted enrollment was 1164.

    The cutoff between 3 & 4 was around 1115-1150.

    Halifax's enrollment was 1558.

    The cutoff between 4 & 5 varies between 1450-1520.

    I think Liberty and Rustburg will probably stay in 3 for another cycle.

    LCA could very well move down to 3.

    Halifax will probably move to 4.

    Woodgrove and Sherando will probably move up to 5.

    These are just my opinions based on the adjustments in enrollments and classes.

    https://www.vhsl.org/alignment/
     
    18 mike salem, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  19. freeatlast2013

    freeatlast2013 VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    Be careful Danville One Man is very sensitive about any changes in the Seminole. As we all know he is a very sensitive man.
     
  20. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    Rustburg has a long history in the Seminole. I don't see them moving districts. After all of the changes a few years ago the VHSL should basically leave districts alone and just reclassify based on enrollment imo.
     
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  21. one man

    one man VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    I'm just glad you're thinking about me @freeatlast2013 .
     
  22. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    I know private school championships in Va aren't equivalent to public school championships, but LCA has 7 VISAA football Championships. (92, 04, 05, 07, 11, 12, 13)
     
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  23. 1MoreHokie

    1MoreHokie VaPreps Hall of Famer
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    Yea, I'm OK with not sharing.
     
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  24. one man

    one man VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    This is something that had me puzzled when the new ADM numbers and classifications were released a few years ago. Looking at your link, as it was then, Monticello had 1136 to our 1126. Byrd at 1125 had the lowest enrollment in 4A while Monticello was maybe 3rd or 4th largest 3A at 1136. I immediately reached out to our head coach and AD about how Monticello had more students than us but in lower class. I'm thinking, either we should move down with them to 3A or they should move up with us to 4A. I'd understand if our schools were in different parts of the state but we're 3 miles apart.

    VHSL let us know that they have these adjusted numbers for each class, which is where that 1115-1170 comes into play for 4A. A school that finished the last cycle in 3A (Monticello) can go over the 1115 number but won't move up unless they go over 1170. We finished the previous cycle in 4A so we aren't allowed to move down unless we get under 1115. They give each classification about a 15-70 student adjustment (depending on which class) that allows for student growth/loss over the course of a 4 year cycle. This means schools don't have to alter their schedule/conference/region/class if they have a couple years where their enrollment rises or drops to a different classification.

    In a case like Blacksburg, their enrollment jumped above the adjusted enrollment of 1170, moving them from 3A to 4A this past year. Same reason William Byrd wasn't able to move down to 3A even though four 3A schools had higher enrollment than their 1125. Had their enrollment been 1114 they would have been in 3C instead of 4D.

    This is why Sherando was initially set to move to 5A because they were at 1522, just above the adjusted 5A cut off of 1450-1520. Couple weeks later they came back with different numbers because of special needs students coming from other county high schools to Sherando. I think their new number ended up being in the high 1480s-90s.

    I personally commend the VHSL for having the adjustment zone. It's much easier on AD's who schedule games years in advance.Though we ended up on the wrong side of the numbers game, as far as playing in 3A vs 4A. Kind of sucks when playoffs start and our crosstown rival who is bigger than us is facing a less challenging path to state competition but I really think VHSL got this strategy right. It's great for those schools that hover around a set classification enrollment number. I think of Amherst back in the day when they kept going back and forth from AAA to AA in the 90s. That Amherst team that lost to AAA Hampton in 95 or 96 probably would have went back to back after they beat Sherando the year before in AA.

    What do you guys think of the Adjusted Enrollment zone? Do you like it more than just saying 5A is 1500-2200, 4A is 1499-1000 or whatever. Also, If you understand this system different than I've given it to you, by all means correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  25. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    That's the way I understand it and you explained it perfectly.
     
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  26. tommythecpa

    tommythecpa VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    GW stays in the Piedmont. Attendance is up and travel time down. Franklin County will move causing GW scheduling headaches.
     
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  27. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    IF GW stays in the Piedmont, they can kiss any state championship in football goodbye. GW will run the Piedmont for the next 5 years and no team will come within 4 TDs on their backups. GW won’t get any better in the Piedmont unless they play a gauntlet OOD and add a very good OOD towards the end of the season like Hermitage and Manchester has done the past couple of years. Other than football, the Piedmont is a pretty good district, especially baseball. Seminole would be a lot better.
     
  28. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    @tommythecpa if GW somehow moves to 3a, then the Piedmont would be a good move..4a no. You’ve been around the program a lot longer than I’ve been born and you know the types of schedules our Eagles once played. We have some elite level players in the program, we need to play an elite regular season schedule so we can be elite in the playoffs.
     
  29. VolNation85

    VolNation85 VaPreps Varsity
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    Took the words right out of my mouth.
     
  30. tommythecpa

    tommythecpa VaPreps Honorable Mention
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    Scheduling has been hard for GW since the 70s. There have been years when the ADs have contacted every like classified school in the state. NC schools are not interested anymore.
    The sad reality of Danville’s slow economic decline is that GW is more limited in resources and flexibility. Without Nick Anderson, GW would be in a bad way. Look at what has happened to the baseball program.
     
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  31. DanvilleSportsHead

    DanvilleSportsHead VaPreps All District
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    Very very very true! Coach Smith had told me that a while back. Good teams want no part of us during the regular season...Our last good schedule consisted of Petersburg, Lake Taylor, and Churchland in our last year of Triple A. Luckily we have the Seminole teams like Glass, Amherst, LCA, & JF that don’t mind getting down.
     
  32. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    It's good that those 4 Seminole teams (that are all C4) are willing to play GW. A lot of schools don't like to schedule OOD teams that they could see in the playoffs.
     
  33. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    So Franklin Co is for sure moving? Are they going to the RRD? That would make sense if Cave Spring and Hidden Valley move to the BRD.
     
  34. DinwiddieProud

    DinwiddieProud VaPreps All Region
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    Great job explaining this Coach. I, like you, like the flexibility that is integral, instead of a hard number being an absolute.

    Mike, I missed something along the way. What is the evidence that Franklin Co is likely to drop?

    Hey guys, this has been one of the best threads in a long time.

    It's probably easier to have a constitutional amendment that it is to change districts. It takes unanimous consent from both the district you are leaving, and the district you are joining. It also takes final consent from the VHSL, but that is little more than a rubber stamp.
     
  35. mike salem

    mike salem VaPreps All Region
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    Franklin Co isn't dropping in classification, but it seems likely that they'll move from the Piedmont to the RRD. If they do move it will be because Cave Spring and Hidden Valley appear to be moving from the RRD to the BRD.
     

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