Patrick Henry preview
- Thread starter mike salem
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I think they will be about on par with last year. They may have a better running squad, but losing Calfee will certainly affect the passing game. 5A is no joke come playoff time, if they make it they are 1 and done imo.
PH always has a good team and Fiddler is a good coach. My problem with PH has always been discipline. They have superior athletes but they can't seem to mesh. Every big game I've seen PH play in they've either fought the other team, got a technical foul or unsportsmanlike, or did something "boneheaded" in important times of the game. Wouldn't be the least surprised to see them challenge a team like Salem or Pulaski the entire game and ultimately blow it. They have very good athletes, IMO, better athletes than Fleming (No disrespect, I love Coach Martin and Coach Hardy).
I'd say one and done, at best. I thought PH was pretty bad last year, and Calfee was all they had. Take him away, and the Patriots struck me as being hardly better than Hidden Valley. I was very surprised by PH's lack of size, given they're 5A. And this is one barely-informed person's opinion, but after seeing their teams the last three years, I think their coach is rather highly overrated. Last year, PH lost to Blacksburg, a mediocre (for 3A) team; the year prior, same deal against C'burg. And there have been several scrape-by wins in games that shouldn't have been close over the last few years.
The Patriots might be returning a lot, but I didn't see a lot to be excited about last year. If PH beats or seriously challenges Salem this year, then Salem will have significant problems that are currently unforeseen. The Spartans prevailed 51-14 at PH last year, and it really wasn't that close. Patrick Henry might finish 7-3, maybe even 8-2, but only because the rest of the RRD will still be pretty weak - four wins (CS, HV, Carroll, C'burg) should be in the bag. Albemarle, JF, Fleming and Blacksburg are probably all pick-em's, at this point. I could easily see PH again being one of the bottom seeds in a formidable 5A North bracket, and once again being on the wrong end of a first-round thumping.
The Patriots might be returning a lot, but I didn't see a lot to be excited about last year. If PH beats or seriously challenges Salem this year, then Salem will have significant problems that are currently unforeseen. The Spartans prevailed 51-14 at PH last year, and it really wasn't that close. Patrick Henry might finish 7-3, maybe even 8-2, but only because the rest of the RRD will still be pretty weak - four wins (CS, HV, Carroll, C'burg) should be in the bag. Albemarle, JF, Fleming and Blacksburg are probably all pick-em's, at this point. I could easily see PH again being one of the bottom seeds in a formidable 5A North bracket, and once again being on the wrong end of a first-round thumping.
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I hate to say Fiddler is overrated, but I understand what you are saying. He's a former college coach and at PH he has a slew of good talent and very nice facilities. I was impressed with their performance against Jefferson Forest, but losing to Blacksburg was decidedly unimpressive. Their lack of defense and inability to run the ball were the main reasons they were 5-6.
Coach Fiddler believes he may have a line and a running game. If this comes to fruition then this will also help the defense. The record may improve, but I agree, playing in 5A North, they are 1 and done.
I gave a lot of consideration before posting that, but it is my honest opinion that he is overrated as a head coach. Nothing against the man personally. And keep in mind - I did point out that I am barely-informed! It could be that I am dead wrong.
His team's performance thus far certainly leads one to that opinion pretty easily, I can't disagree with you at this point.
I think he may be more of a coordinator than a head guy(his state championships in West Va. notwithstanding), however, his performance to date at PH is more about fit, in my opinion. He's a nice guy and good with the kids, maybe too nice/accepting to push them to maximum effort. PH has given almost the same performance every year so far and it is hard to believe it will not be more of the same this year. They usually have good skill kids with plenty of speed but, play in the trenches on both sides of the ball is spotty and they lack discipline/toughness(ill timed penalties, turnovers, assignment breakdowns). When they put it together they are solid(so you know they can do it) and then they lay an egg like Blacksburg. You expect breakdowns as a new coach is building the program and establishing/changing culture but, eventually you have to turn the corner and get beyond the repeated miscues. Their schedule and rating system points scale should have them slotted for the playoffs if they do what is expected. To actually make some real noise this year they have to have much better line play on both sides of the ball, not help the other team with ill timed penalties and turnovers and play with a tougher edge. They have good facilities at PH including a nice weight room but, so far weight room gains are not being transferred to the field, in my opinion.
Yeah I gotta agree with Cutnjump. I followed PH during the 2011 and 2012 season when they had Prince and the Whorleys. I know they had a couple of big lineman but these guys were jumping offsides, false starts, etc and this was mid October. Very very undisciplined. Their basketball program should have at least 2-3 state championships between Triple A and 5a. They had some scary good teams especially the 09/10 team and the 12/13 team. I probably saw both squads a total of 14-15 times total and you could just see how undisciplined they were. Fighting, talking back to Coach Eshworthy, taunting the opposition.. I deem it on the culture of the school. I've followed Fleming closely and they're probably one of the more disciplined programs I've seen. These kids literally live next door to one another so I'll just call it a "culture thing" at PH.
I think the kind of thing you're describing - repeated basic mistakes, personal fouls, taunting, and especially talking back - all comes back to coaching. The head man is either going to tolerate it, in essence handing over at least some control to the players, or he's going to impose discipline and structure. It's probably a very difficult thing to do, especially in schools were such a culture is a foreign concept. It might be a little corny, but the scene in the movie "Hoosiers" where Coach Dale first meets the team illustrates the point. Within the first two minutes, he kicks his only point guard out: "Don't come back until you learn to keep your mouth shut and listen." Maybe a little more of the Coach Dale approach is needed at the corner of Brandon and Grandin, both on the hardwoods and the gridiron. Granted, that's Hollywood, but we've all seen much more draconian approaches in real life.
Of course, PH did win a couple of AAA basketball titles back in "the old days", in '88 and '92, both under Woody Deans. Not to take the thread off track, but the '88 Patriots were easily the best true public school team I've ever seen. Coach Deans was not one to tolerate nonsense.
But don't forget the best part of that scenario was when the father of that kid came back with his son and made him apologize to coach Dale. We need more of that too.
Accountability begins at home and a large part of the ills that plague society today can be traced to the home. Being disciplined at school or on the field never bothered me because I always knew the punishment meted out at home would be far worse.
Cut, how well I remember. If I messed up in school, I would beg for any an all punishment the would give, just please don't send a note home to my dad.
Yeah, that was another great scene. That particular kid (the one who says "I ain't no gizzard") was the point guard's friend, Whit. I like how in the scene I mentioned, Whit's brother Rade looks at him and says, "It's your funeral." He knows how dad is going to react, and that goes along with what you, cutnjump, and DP are talking about: the retribution waiting at home was usually far worse than anything the school could dish out. Interestingly enough, Whit and Rade's dad, Paul Butcher, becomes one of Norman Dale's assistants.
In the finished cut of "Hoosiers", Buddy (the point guard) gets tossed from that first practice, then magically reappears after the first game, without any explanation. A scene was actually filmed that showed Buddy asking Coach Dale if he could come back, but it ended up on the cutting room floor:
I particularly like how Buddy says he just couldn't bring himself to play for Hickory's hated arch rival, a school he's dedicated his entire young life to beating. One of the things I enjoy so much about high school sports is the intense rivalries between communities (not that it necessarily needs to rise to the level of hatred). It seems as if that sense of rivalry and competitiveness is somehow fading away.
Here's a list of the deleted scenes on the collector's edition dvd:
http://hoosiersarchive.com/trivia-4/the-deleted-scenes-on-the-dvds/
I've seen "Hoosiers" about, oh, eleventy billion times. It's definitely in my top five all-time faves.
Mine too, along with "The Natural", "Rudy", and "The Sandlot".
