i have a question for either (wink, wink) of you. For people who have followed my posts before, you know I’m not a fan of the younger Hatcher. Leemen (and now 85straight I guess) you have defended his coaching. So let me ask this, is mickens just an incredible coach too? Are we all supposed to believe that the Leemen, who are headed for an undefeated regular, have just been lead by 2 of the greatest coaches around the last 2 years? Or is it what people have been saying for 20 years, Lee just has the players? Are we to think that Lee has just fallen into these great coaches while the rest of the area can’t find any? Or is it like I have said, Hatcher is not a coach and for 5 years he was .500. Then all of the sudden 2 division 1 players win a state championship. Then this year mickens takes over a senior loaded team with a division 1 player and lee is undefeated. I know this will be hard for you to answer( we both know why) but let’s see.
Question for Leemen/85straight
- Thread starter Truthforyou
- Start date
Hey Thruth. I am new to the board this season so I have not defended Jarrett Hatcher. To be honest I really did not like his coaching style. His record was average and I will just leave it at that. Lee did have some good players transfer to private schools, but even with them I not sure they would have been a lot better, probably just better.
As for the Paul Hatcher years, Lee had some good and great players, but a lot of Valley, and AAA/AA teams did too. Hatcher was an outstanding defensive coach and game coach. He developed a program that started with the junior high/middle school teams, and worked its way up to the LeeJV and varsity teams. The players were also developed and improved even more once they got direct coaching from Hatcher at the varsity.
Mickens has been impressive so far this season imo. He inherited the head coaching position in a difficult situation and has done a fine job in his first season. Lee got started late with practices that included all of the players due to football. There have been more games during the week then practices, and the weather hasn't helped either. Lee is now starting to get their chemistry, as pizzzzza puts it, and have picked it up on the defensive end. He uses his deep bench, and I like the new two unit approach Mickens has started to use. We will see come postseason if he needs to adjust. Gosh, nobody is claiming he's the best. All coaches have their first season!
As for the Valley area coaches throughout the last few decades, there have always been very good ones for the Lee program to play against, as well as some great players too. Obviously the most recent, and probably best example would be Spotswood's Edwards. Do remember he inherited a solid program built from scratch by Jim Kramer, who did just a fantastic coaching job for the Blazers.
As for the Paul Hatcher years, Lee had some good and great players, but a lot of Valley, and AAA/AA teams did too. Hatcher was an outstanding defensive coach and game coach. He developed a program that started with the junior high/middle school teams, and worked its way up to the LeeJV and varsity teams. The players were also developed and improved even more once they got direct coaching from Hatcher at the varsity.
Mickens has been impressive so far this season imo. He inherited the head coaching position in a difficult situation and has done a fine job in his first season. Lee got started late with practices that included all of the players due to football. There have been more games during the week then practices, and the weather hasn't helped either. Lee is now starting to get their chemistry, as pizzzzza puts it, and have picked it up on the defensive end. He uses his deep bench, and I like the new two unit approach Mickens has started to use. We will see come postseason if he needs to adjust. Gosh, nobody is claiming he's the best. All coaches have their first season!
As for the Valley area coaches throughout the last few decades, there have always been very good ones for the Lee program to play against, as well as some great players too. Obviously the most recent, and probably best example would be Spotswood's Edwards. Do remember he inherited a solid program built from scratch by Jim Kramer, who did just a fantastic coaching job for the Blazers.
I think 85straight said it best. The only thing I'll say is talent is nothing without coaching. Do I think the younger Hatcher was great...no. He was a good coach when he could control his emotions. Paul Hatcher is a legend and what he built at Lee over 43 years was incredible. Some of the seasons that Lee made deep runs...he didn't have great talent. By the way Lee does have a loss earlier to East Rock.
Terrell Mickens is a good coach with great potential. He makes good adjustments and over the season he has made Lee a deep team. One of the deepest in recent years. He has Lee playing defense similar to the old Lee teams and that had honestly been lacking in recent years. He has his players respect and I have faith that he can do a great job moving forward. He has managed a lot this season and has Lee right in the thick of the State title picture so...he has already proven a lot.
I think as far as coaching and talent...couldn't we look at Martinsville and Brunswick and say the same thing over the years and other teams as well? Those teams always had good coaching and I think you have to with very talented teams. Keep in mind Lee has a lot of veteran leadership on this team as well...as you said. That always helps as well. When Brunswick had the Stith Kid's and Bryant Stith coaching...I could easily say well that's the only reason they won during those years. I have a feeling Bryant Stith's coaching was a huge plus with that team. A good team no matter the talent will not advance very far without decent/good coaching. Basketball is a team game and iuf you don't have good coaching then ego's can come in and take over. Not to mention strategy. A good team can always be beaten or slowed by good coaching strategy so...Coaching plays a huge role in any team's success.
There are many good teams with good coaches around the state...Lee has been blessed with talent plus good coaching and we as Lee fans have benefited from that.
You could ask the same question in College ball. Would the Duke's, UNC's, Kansas's, Kentucky's etc be as good of programs without good coaching? Probably not. I still remember a season where Duke had a losing record when Coach K was out with back surgery. I remember Carolina wasn't as good in the years between Dean Smith and Roy Williams. UConn hasn't been the same after Jim Calhoun left so...coaching will always play a big role in any team's success.
Terrell Mickens is a good coach with great potential. He makes good adjustments and over the season he has made Lee a deep team. One of the deepest in recent years. He has Lee playing defense similar to the old Lee teams and that had honestly been lacking in recent years. He has his players respect and I have faith that he can do a great job moving forward. He has managed a lot this season and has Lee right in the thick of the State title picture so...he has already proven a lot.
I think as far as coaching and talent...couldn't we look at Martinsville and Brunswick and say the same thing over the years and other teams as well? Those teams always had good coaching and I think you have to with very talented teams. Keep in mind Lee has a lot of veteran leadership on this team as well...as you said. That always helps as well. When Brunswick had the Stith Kid's and Bryant Stith coaching...I could easily say well that's the only reason they won during those years. I have a feeling Bryant Stith's coaching was a huge plus with that team. A good team no matter the talent will not advance very far without decent/good coaching. Basketball is a team game and iuf you don't have good coaching then ego's can come in and take over. Not to mention strategy. A good team can always be beaten or slowed by good coaching strategy so...Coaching plays a huge role in any team's success.
There are many good teams with good coaches around the state...Lee has been blessed with talent plus good coaching and we as Lee fans have benefited from that.
You could ask the same question in College ball. Would the Duke's, UNC's, Kansas's, Kentucky's etc be as good of programs without good coaching? Probably not. I still remember a season where Duke had a losing record when Coach K was out with back surgery. I remember Carolina wasn't as good in the years between Dean Smith and Roy Williams. UConn hasn't been the same after Jim Calhoun left so...coaching will always play a big role in any team's success.
Why does Hatcher have to be "good" or "bad" as a Coach? Why a binomial proposition? is there a way he could be somewhere in the middle or along a continuum of somewhere between "good" and "bad?"
I won't get into the discussion of how good or how bad either Hatcher was, but from having observed over the years from a distance, I just always assumed that it was because they got a ton of good athletes coming through the pipeline. Some years were of course better than others, but like many of you, I cannot remember when they had a bad year.
That is why when the news broke that they were moving to the Shenandoah, I for one did not take it well. Even though the Shenandoah holds it own and for that matter sometimes outshines the Valley, that move was still considered a downward one, in terms of the size of the schools, and I felt like that decision essentially handed the Leemen as many titles as they would ever want. I am referring mainly to basketball by the way, since I think their football season surprised everyone.
However, I have to admit that I now have a slightly different take on basketball. I still think they will zoom right through the regular season and probably win the tournament, but they have at least proven themselves to be human. The East Rock loss of course came without Vaughan in the line-up, but still a loss is a loss, and the game that Riverheads gave them on their own floor still boggles the mind weeks later. We will find out a week from tomorrow if that was a fluke and if so, how much of one.
So I guess the way I feel now is that their presence in the district in basketball and maybe all sports for that matter will only make the district as a whole that much stronger. It goes back to that old cliche "to be the best you have to play the best," and anyone who steps on the floor with Lee will either have to be on top of their own game or be trampled.
That is why when the news broke that they were moving to the Shenandoah, I for one did not take it well. Even though the Shenandoah holds it own and for that matter sometimes outshines the Valley, that move was still considered a downward one, in terms of the size of the schools, and I felt like that decision essentially handed the Leemen as many titles as they would ever want. I am referring mainly to basketball by the way, since I think their football season surprised everyone.
However, I have to admit that I now have a slightly different take on basketball. I still think they will zoom right through the regular season and probably win the tournament, but they have at least proven themselves to be human. The East Rock loss of course came without Vaughan in the line-up, but still a loss is a loss, and the game that Riverheads gave them on their own floor still boggles the mind weeks later. We will find out a week from tomorrow if that was a fluke and if so, how much of one.
So I guess the way I feel now is that their presence in the district in basketball and maybe all sports for that matter will only make the district as a whole that much stronger. It goes back to that old cliche "to be the best you have to play the best," and anyone who steps on the floor with Lee will either have to be on top of their own game or be trampled.
