Three seconds call question
- Thread starter ljr06
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You cannot have a three second count util the throw in ends,which is when a player in bounds ohter than the thrower has touched the ball. Must have been a rookie crew.
Gosh, I thought they had eliminated that rule. haven't seen it called all year.
I was at a game somewhere in the past 2 weeks, a player posted up in middle of 3 sec lane. the opposing fans noticed it and counted out loud a "second count". The player spent 9 seconds in lane and was never whistled.
I was at a game somewhere in the past 2 weeks, a player posted up in middle of 3 sec lane. the opposing fans noticed it and counted out loud a "second count". The player spent 9 seconds in lane and was never whistled.
What I find humerous...
is the fan that starts his "out-loud" count at about 5 or 6, somehow insinuating he has already counted to 4 silently, then yelling louder (and counting faster) with each number 'til he gets to 10 or 12. Gets a laugh from me for sure.
is the fan that starts his "out-loud" count at about 5 or 6, somehow insinuating he has already counted to 4 silently, then yelling louder (and counting faster) with each number 'til he gets to 10 or 12. Gets a laugh from me for sure.
Re: What I find humerous...
They actually brought a couple officials in before our season started to talk to the parents and players. One official said "I have better things to do than sit there and count everytime a player steps in the paint". If there is no advantage he wasn't going to waste his time on it. I guess I can see the point he's making. When you figure every parent of a guard wants to make sure the official see's the reach or illegal screen they are yelling about.
They actually brought a couple officials in before our season started to talk to the parents and players. One official said "I have better things to do than sit there and count everytime a player steps in the paint". If there is no advantage he wasn't going to waste his time on it. I guess I can see the point he's making. When you figure every parent of a guard wants to make sure the official see's the reach or illegal screen they are yelling about.
Re: What I find humerous...
The way I work it with a coach or fan counting where I can hear it,I will tell them as long as they are calling it, I never will.
The way I work it with a coach or fan counting where I can hear it,I will tell them as long as they are calling it, I never will.
Re: What I find humerous...
I was doing a game earlier in the season everytime the coach would yell foul so after a few minutes I whispered to him and said that if you calling all the fouls there is no need for me to call any, then I said well if you calling all the fouls who's coaching your team. the rest of the game did not hear a peep from him.
I was doing a game earlier in the season everytime the coach would yell foul so after a few minutes I whispered to him and said that if you calling all the fouls there is no need for me to call any, then I said well if you calling all the fouls who's coaching your team. the rest of the game did not hear a peep from him.
Re: What I find humerous...
I know a coach you almost got a T once for telling an assistant coach:
"look at the ratio of fouls"
(I believe that ratio was 12-2 in favor of home team.) the ref took that comment personally and got all bent out of shape, even though no one said anything to him
I know a coach you almost got a T once for telling an assistant coach:
"look at the ratio of fouls"
(I believe that ratio was 12-2 in favor of home team.) the ref took that comment personally and got all bent out of shape, even though no one said anything to him
Re: What I find humerous...
If a coach says it to his assistant loud enough for me to hear it across the floor, then I take it the comment is for me. "T" time is easy on that one.
If a coach says it to his assistant loud enough for me to hear it across the floor, then I take it the comment is for me. "T" time is easy on that one.
Re: What I find humerous...
I have always thought when a ref hears coaches talking to each other, "his hearing is too good". When playing, coaching or officiating, I never "heard outside comments". I blocked them all out.
I have always thought when a ref hears coaches talking to each other, "his hearing is too good". When playing, coaching or officiating, I never "heard outside comments". I blocked them all out.
Re: What I find humerous...
Three seconds during a throw can be found in the case book. 4.12.6 Ruling.No three seconds can occur during a throw in or a ten count to get the ball over half court.
Three seconds during a throw can be found in the case book. 4.12.6 Ruling.No three seconds can occur during a throw in or a ten count to get the ball over half court.
Re: So you'd be okay with
Illegal screen is what HR6 has on his Direct TV account. Gets to watch all the programs for free.
Illegal screen is what HR6 has on his Direct TV account. Gets to watch all the programs for free.
Re: So you'd be okay with
Just a little humor. Gald HR6 doesn't have Direct TV. He could balst the refs more with all the games on now.
Just a little humor. Gald HR6 doesn't have Direct TV. He could balst the refs more with all the games on now.
Re: So you'd be okay with
Okay, I've had time to think about it.
A1 and B1 are racing down the court in transition. At the last possible moment, A2 steps in and sets a blindside screen on B1, who goes flying. But since there's no time and distance required on screens now, no foul.
A1 goes baseline and gets a pass as he squares for a 3 pointer. B1 is chasing him but A2 sets a screen and rides him right OOB. A1 hits the 3 which is good since A2's moving screen is now legal.
Yeah, that's a great idea, HR6. Now, we don't have to wait until August, we can have indoor football!
Okay, I've had time to think about it.
A1 and B1 are racing down the court in transition. At the last possible moment, A2 steps in and sets a blindside screen on B1, who goes flying. But since there's no time and distance required on screens now, no foul.
A1 goes baseline and gets a pass as he squares for a 3 pointer. B1 is chasing him but A2 sets a screen and rides him right OOB. A1 hits the 3 which is good since A2's moving screen is now legal.
Yeah, that's a great idea, HR6. Now, we don't have to wait until August, we can have indoor football!
Re: So you'd be okay with
if contact is made, .........foul
no contact...................no foul
if a player runs into or over another player, then whistle should blow.
if contact is made, .........foul
no contact...................no foul
if a player runs into or over another player, then whistle should blow.
Re: So you'd be okay with
HR6, that is the rule now. What more do you want tweaked? A ref. cannot call every little push or touch. Then some Dogwood teams would need 20 players on the bench to make it to halftime.
HR6, that is the rule now. What more do you want tweaked? A ref. cannot call every little push or touch. Then some Dogwood teams would need 20 players on the bench to make it to halftime.
HR, perhaps you are cunfusing
an "illegal" screen, as you said, with a "moving" screen. Maybe you think there are fouls being called now where no contact is made, and you feel these are unnecessary whistles. There needs to be contact on these but, like he said, that's already in the books. It's another fan misnomer, just like "over the back", moving screens are not necessarily illegal.
an "illegal" screen, as you said, with a "moving" screen. Maybe you think there are fouls being called now where no contact is made, and you feel these are unnecessary whistles. There needs to be contact on these but, like he said, that's already in the books. It's another fan misnomer, just like "over the back", moving screens are not necessarily illegal.
Re: So you'd be okay with
problem I have with rule as it is now, is when it gets whistled now, what really happened isn't evident to anyone but the ref.
I saw it called in a girls game bewteen NC and Chatham 2 or 3 years ago in tournament. the chatham girl set a pick and never moved for several seconds. Chatham had the lead and the ball, thus they were simply gonna 'run out the clock" with less than 10 seconds left in game. the point guard dribbled between her and sideline. the ref called illegal screen, the chatham girl never move any part of her body once she set pick.
problem I have with rule as it is now, is when it gets whistled now, what really happened isn't evident to anyone but the ref.
I saw it called in a girls game bewteen NC and Chatham 2 or 3 years ago in tournament. the chatham girl set a pick and never moved for several seconds. Chatham had the lead and the ball, thus they were simply gonna 'run out the clock" with less than 10 seconds left in game. the point guard dribbled between her and sideline. the ref called illegal screen, the chatham girl never move any part of her body once she set pick.
Re: So you'd be okay with
When you blow the whistle for an illegal screen, you better call it with authority. That way at least you try to convince the crowd that something really happened. If it is not a really hard hit or nasty then the illegal screen is not called very often. If the screener had her foot on the line, could have been the reason for the foul call.
When you blow the whistle for an illegal screen, you better call it with authority. That way at least you try to convince the crowd that something really happened. If it is not a really hard hit or nasty then the illegal screen is not called very often. If the screener had her foot on the line, could have been the reason for the foul call.
Re: So you'd be okay with
That's a myth that many fans believe. They think all contact is a foul. Contact does not equal a foul. Illegal contact is a foul. Contact which creates an advantage or disadvantage is a foul. The severity of the contact has nothing to do with whether a foul occurs or not.
No, the rule book disagrees with you. From NFHS rule 4-40-7
In cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent contact with the screener and if the opponent is running rapidly, the contact may be severe. Such a case is to be ruled as incidental contact provided the opponent stops or attempts to stop on contact and moves around the screen, and provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.
Well, I'm afraid if we start changing all the rules fans don't understand, we'll have to throw out the rule book. Fans ball watch, officials don't. We can't ignore fouls because fans might not understand the call. That's not going to happen.
There are far more issues involved with whether a screen is illegal or not than whether the screener moved.
Sounds like the real issue is you don't know the rule. For example,
Are all screens treated the same?
What's the requirement for time and distance when setting a screen?
Does it matter how fast the defender is moving?
Are the rules different when setting a blind screen?
Can the screener create contact?
It's doubtful most fans could answer these questions.
Reading this forum and observing the things that are being called in the games you see is serving you well. Good post!
This post was edited on 2/9 6:23 PM by FBRef
That's a myth that many fans believe. They think all contact is a foul. Contact does not equal a foul. Illegal contact is a foul. Contact which creates an advantage or disadvantage is a foul. The severity of the contact has nothing to do with whether a foul occurs or not.
No, the rule book disagrees with you. From NFHS rule 4-40-7
In cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent contact with the screener and if the opponent is running rapidly, the contact may be severe. Such a case is to be ruled as incidental contact provided the opponent stops or attempts to stop on contact and moves around the screen, and provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.
Well, I'm afraid if we start changing all the rules fans don't understand, we'll have to throw out the rule book. Fans ball watch, officials don't. We can't ignore fouls because fans might not understand the call. That's not going to happen.
There are far more issues involved with whether a screen is illegal or not than whether the screener moved.
Sounds like the real issue is you don't know the rule. For example,
Are all screens treated the same?
What's the requirement for time and distance when setting a screen?
Does it matter how fast the defender is moving?
Are the rules different when setting a blind screen?
Can the screener create contact?
It's doubtful most fans could answer these questions.
Reading this forum and observing the things that are being called in the games you see is serving you well. Good post!
This post was edited on 2/9 6:23 PM by FBRef
Re: So you'd be okay with
One of the hardest things about officiating is not watching the ball when the ball is not your area. Fans go to games and watch the ball. Most fans have no idea what is going on off ball.
One of the hardest things about officiating is not watching the ball when the ball is not your area. Fans go to games and watch the ball. Most fans have no idea what is going on off ball.
Re: So you'd be okay with
very good points, thanks.
but I do have one queston: why are "touch fouls called" when there is no advantantage or disadvantage gained by anyone ? I have seen fouls called when foul was so "light/or soft", the player fouled probably did not know anyone touched him. Granted, with 10 players on court going 10 different ways, there's gonna be contact.
very good points, thanks.
but I do have one queston: why are "touch fouls called" when there is no advantantage or disadvantage gained by anyone ? I have seen fouls called when foul was so "light/or soft", the player fouled probably did not know anyone touched him. Granted, with 10 players on court going 10 different ways, there's gonna be contact.
Re: So you'd be okay with
As I said before, the severity of the contact is not an issue. That means that you can have violent contact and no foul, or light contact and have a foul. For example, if you're shooting and I touch the elbow on your shooting foul, that's a foul, as you're likley to miss the shot because of the contact.
As for what's an advantage or disadvantage, that's up to the official to judge. But certain things, like placing a hand on the dribbler's hip is supposed to be an automatic foul, as it's difficult to know at what point there's advantage/disadvatange.
I'm from the school of "let'em play." If you do that on both ends, most coaches can live with it much better than calling everything.
As I said before, the severity of the contact is not an issue. That means that you can have violent contact and no foul, or light contact and have a foul. For example, if you're shooting and I touch the elbow on your shooting foul, that's a foul, as you're likley to miss the shot because of the contact.
As for what's an advantage or disadvantage, that's up to the official to judge. But certain things, like placing a hand on the dribbler's hip is supposed to be an automatic foul, as it's difficult to know at what point there's advantage/disadvatange.
I'm from the school of "let'em play." If you do that on both ends, most coaches can live with it much better than calling everything.
Re: So you'd be okay with
A guy I work with will tell the players in the pre game,we will let you play as long as you behave. If you miss behave, we will blow the whistle. One type of contact I am quick to call is the hand on back when a player goes to the basket. Like Fbref said, it is not how hard the contact is, it is where it is and what the offended player is doing when the contact occurs.
A guy I work with will tell the players in the pre game,we will let you play as long as you behave. If you miss behave, we will blow the whistle. One type of contact I am quick to call is the hand on back when a player goes to the basket. Like Fbref said, it is not how hard the contact is, it is where it is and what the offended player is doing when the contact occurs.
Re: So you'd be okay with
I was at a game a few years back in which I think there were less than 5 fouls called entire game. at a Gretna game about 3 nights later, we had the same 3 officials. I figured it would be same type game with very few fouls. If I recall correctly, both teams were "shooting 1 and 1" in first quarter.
I was at a game a few years back in which I think there were less than 5 fouls called entire game. at a Gretna game about 3 nights later, we had the same 3 officials. I figured it would be same type game with very few fouls. If I recall correctly, both teams were "shooting 1 and 1" in first quarter.
Re: So you'd be okay with
There was no reason for you to think that. Every team is different. That's why there are discrepanices in the number of fouls called in a game and between teams.
Last night, I heard "The fouls are 6 to 1!"
"Okay coach, let's look at it. You're playing man and they're taking the ball to the rim. That's when we've called 5 fouls. On your end, your guys are taking jumpers over their zone. And the illegal screen I called on 44 was actually the third time he did it. So what are we supposed to do?"
I've had games this year where we had less that 20 fouls and where we had more than 50. Same crew of officials, different teams.
This post was edited on 2/13 10:15 AM by FBRef
There was no reason for you to think that. Every team is different. That's why there are discrepanices in the number of fouls called in a game and between teams.
Last night, I heard "The fouls are 6 to 1!"
"Okay coach, let's look at it. You're playing man and they're taking the ball to the rim. That's when we've called 5 fouls. On your end, your guys are taking jumpers over their zone. And the illegal screen I called on 44 was actually the third time he did it. So what are we supposed to do?"
I've had games this year where we had less that 20 fouls and where we had more than 50. Same crew of officials, different teams.
This post was edited on 2/13 10:15 AM by FBRef
Re: So you'd be okay with
If a ref. sees a little push on the first screen and the second screen it gets a little worse and the pattern continues, then if you don't blow the whistle, you have a major issue. Nip it in the bud and the ref. and the players have a better game.
If a ref. sees a little push on the first screen and the second screen it gets a little worse and the pattern continues, then if you don't blow the whistle, you have a major issue. Nip it in the bud and the ref. and the players have a better game.
HR as you know I AM from Altavista and may I say very proud of it.Have you ever had anything good to say about anything? No I don't agree with every call a ref.makes, but that's not my call and not going to change the out come of the game. These guys are professionals at what they do.So let these Guys do there jobs.I don't think your mouth and all your negative comments about the refs.will help you or your team you support. I saw you at the Altavista-Chatham game Friday night, and I hope if those Refs.saw you there they know your not from Altavista but across the river. The only thing I think your should do is if you can't beat them join them. All or most of the bashing to the refs. will stop at least in Basketball, that will leave Football and Baseball, Please let us have one sport that your are quite in.
