So on to next year............

[TBone]

Starting with the 757, who looks good enough to take the 6A South pending everything that's current plays out? Ocean Lakes loses what appears to be A TON of experience, but with guys like Taylor, Capehart and Crosby returning there appears to still be a good nucleus, and for some odd reason the cupboard is bare i'm sure kids will be trying to transfer into the school. Oscar Smith returns the QB and the Beckett, but loses some kids, too. How will Western Branch look? Shouldn't Bayside with its young talent be a year away from threatening as could Cox? Any insight on the Peninsula teams?

Not too sure about the other regions, please all please chime in....

 

[GilliamRatings]

I still think you've got to like the two 757 powerhouses. I still feel like everybody else is just a step below them (or more) in the South. If you're going to make pick some surprises

Let's see what Bayside, Western Branch and Cox have.

Colonial Forge, and HYlton from the Southeast will still be the best bets to challenge them, but Manchester moves up from 5 and they were as good as anyone in the Richmond area last year. Don't sleep on Thomas Dale. Cosby and James River will be battle tested as that Dominion District top 5 or 6 teams looks nasty next year.

 

[nic7fan]

The teams from the Beach, 757, Tidewater, etc. will just rearrange the deck chairs again, get all good players to transfer to one or two programs like usual, and there you will have it. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.....If the Northern Region did what the Southern does every year there would be nothing but Northern champions. So mark Smith or Lakes in the finals again unless there is a new chosen school in that area I do not know about yet.

All 22 starters for Centreville at the championship game played all years since starting as Freshman for the program, how many did that for Ocean Lakes? Tainted, bought victory by Lakes if you ask me....

Expect the 757/VHSL/VA Preps apologists to come out and attack now....you all don't like folks like me bringing up inconvenient truths.....

 

[TBone]

It's almost as if you're saying its a "group effort" for the stars to align, lol. To Smith and OL's credit, both programs ALWAYS had enough talent within their respective zones before the successes. Problem was with Smith I can speak on personally was the coaching wasn't there per se, and Morgan came along. Same time, Ocean Lakes couldn't get past their own district, but kind of broke through with a win against Deep Creek back in '03 playoffs, when Deep Creek and Western Branch were kind of the D6 stalwarts back in the day. Matter of fact, in '00 Centreville took down Creek in the chip, right? The programs win, so in addition to what they already have, other kids come into the zones, and add to the fact we've got military kids (hell, last time I checked there are kids who's parents work at the Pentagon, Ft. Belvoir, Bethesda, etc., yada yada, and own homes in Westfield, Oakton and Cville zones). Before you completely dismiss our programs as "factories," look at all the tangibles. And also, consider this: We've got schools in some cases within three miles of each other with intertwined zones, especially Virginia Beach. Just some info brother.

This post was edited on 12/17 7:29 PM by TBone

 

[phantom]

Originally posted by nic7fan:

The teams from the Beach, 757, Tidewater, etc. will just rearrange the deck chairs again, get all good players to transfer to one or two programs like usual, and there you will have it. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.....If the Northern Region did what the Southern does every year there would be nothing but Northern champions. So mark Smith or Lakes in the finals again unless there is a new chosen school in that area I do not know about yet.

All 22 starters for Centreville at the championship game played all years since starting as Freshman for the program, how many did that for Ocean Lakes? Tainted, bought victory by Lakes if you ask me....

Expect the 757/VHSL/VA Preps apologists to come out and attack now....you all don't like folks like me bringing up inconvenient truths.....

.......Yawn..........

 

[nic7fan]

Yes of course "yawn" - people in SE part of the state have gotten used to the BS approach to football and just accept it now without reservation.

Hey there are some 4th graders you might want to go and recruit.....

 

[phantom]

Originally posted by nic7fan:

Yes of course "yawn" - people in SE part of the state have gotten used to the BS approach to football and just accept it now without reservation.

Hey there are some 4th graders you might want to go and recruit.....

Very original stuff. Nobody's ever brought up stuff like this before.

 

[Littlematty]

The other thing that hurts the Northern Region public schools is all the private schools in the DMV that can recruit players.....schools in the WCAC like Dematha, Gonzaga, St. Johns, and O'Connell are always recruiting kids....I know three 8th graders that I coached that are going thru this process right now....Do I go to the public school I am supposed to go too? or to the private school that is promising me tuition help (hahaha) coaching, recruiting, and better academics....these families are all weighing the pros and cons.....its crazy.....and in some cases crushes the public school programs....I know of one particular high school program that has four kids going to different private schools, if all four kids would have gone to the same public high school like they could have this program would be a Northern contender......but alas......hahaha!!

 

[nic7fan]

I understand and do not like the private school program thing either but frankly despise even more the public schools in SE and all their recruiters/handlers acting like private schools and VHSL doing nothing about it. What a bunch of ostriches....

 

[TBone]

What exactly is a "handler?"

 

[TBone]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Nm

 

[nic7fan]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


You got that right, who cares if they lose using that approach.

You all know many of the OLakes players transferred in the past few years....

 

[babY_d757]

Are you mad that 757 won state ? Lmao that kid who run over Centreville #1 Lewis has been at Ocean Lakes since his freshman year so was 3 out of the 4 DBs #5 Taylor transferred from a Eastern Region runner up Oscar Smith team beat the crap outta CVille state title game year before his freshman year lets see J.Simmons 4 year LB for ocean lakes and #14 Capheart sophomore transferred from Landstown after his freshman year , what are you so mad about do you need more info on Ocean Lakes players ?

I really dont think Ocean Lakes would do the same mistake they did back in 2009 undefeated team had a RB transfer in after his junior year but didn't really have an impact on the team, they made them forfeit 6 games out of the 10 games won.


Look at all the players made it to the NFL or started in big time college football teams thanks to coach Scott and his staff hes done hell of a job when he took over 2008 and took OL to a undefeated season first year lost to state champ Oscar Smith Eastern Region finals so OLakes is not new to power house football etc ...



This post was edited on 12/17 9:41 PM by babY_d757

 

[nic7fan]

Not mad that 757 won a specific game as a game is a game and it had to be played with whomever the VHSL approved could play.....just don't like the 757 attitude/approach which revolves around forming one or two power teams by congregating all the good players in one or two schools through transfers...you cannot tell me it is not happening

Basically you have had only four 757 teams in 15-20 years worthy of top tier 6A mention (Smith, Lakes, Deep Creek, Landstown) while North has had many more (Centreville, Westfield, Oakton, Chantilly, Lake Braddock, Robinson, Annandale, Hylton, Osbourn, Battlefield, Woodbridge......by the way I know a few of these teams have now been put in the south bracket but they are traditional north teams) and even Central Region has had a lot more variety in power teams that have won state titles or competed for such. Just look at the VHSL Book of Records. Like I said if the North fielded an all star regional team or if your fielded a Westfield or Braddock or Centreville and included a few standout players added to that core team from the other north schools the 757 would be completely shut out altogether.

And who couldn't win with the OLakes roster - a two year old could figure out to hand the ball to the 250 pound guys....so give the coaching staff credit for assembling the team, that is where the credit is due and where VHSL turns its back. Guess they must want to spread the championships around a bit....

 

[nic7fan]

And kudos to this site for not banning me for a few weeks yet like last time I raised these uncomfortable truths abut 757.....if you all do not hear from me for a few weeks you will know why....

 

[m.ur]

I agree with many points here by nic7fan. But I think one of his points here is being missed... where is the competition in the south? Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't Ocean Lakes and Oscar Smith both on ridiculous 30+ in district winning streaks? No other school in either area can even come with in 3 scores, over a 5 year period?

Kids flock to those schools, I don't blame the schools or the coaches, just how it is.

Just look at the Preps preseason reports on the teams from the south, the first paragraph of almost every team is dedicated to who has switched schools.

Just two different worlds.

 

[nic7fan]

Thanks for your post m.ur. But that is the point, it should not be two different worlds.

WHERE IS THE VHSL IN ALL OF THIS, CLEARLY TURNING A BLIND EYE. And I don't know why?

I don't care if Ocean Lakes or Smith or whomever wins as long as every PUBLIC school is playing by at least close to the same rules.

 

[nohokies69]

it is not just the 757

We have about 3 schools in this area that poach talent from outlining school zones as well. One doestn even try to hide it.

 

[DEVILSLB99]

Loyalty

Kids today don't have it anymore and with the schools being so close to one another and the kids watching things like "The Decision" they decide to team up and play together. If its done within the rules who are we to criticize just make sure all your i's are dotted and t's crossed.

 

[nic7fan]

Re: Loyalty


Ok so I put it to the VHSL again in case those nameless/faceless bureaucrats are reading....


WHAT ARE THE RULES?

 

[DEVILSLB99]

Re: Loyalty

Here you go

Rules

 

[TBone]

Congrats to Ocean Lakes! The 757 is proud!
This post was edited on 12/18 11:38 AM by TBone

 

[TBone]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Nic, please provide valuable proof of the SLEW of kids that transferred into the school. We'd LOVE to hear the rumors be validated into news. Until then, congrats to Ocean Lakes and much love and respect to Centreville and its accolades accomplished for many, many years. NoVa Football is some of the best football played nationwide.

 

[phantom]

Originally posted by nic7fan:
Not mad that 757 won a specific game as a game is a game and it had to be played with whomever the VHSL approved could play.....just don't like the 757 attitude/approach which revolves around forming one or two power teams by congregating all the good players in one or two schools through transfers...you cannot tell me it is not happening

Basically you have had only four 757 teams in 15-20 years worthy of top tier 6A mention (Smith, Lakes, Deep Creek, Landstown) while North has had many more (Centreville, Westfield, Oakton, Chantilly, Lake Braddock, Robinson, Annandale, Hylton, Osbourn, Battlefield, Woodbridge......by the way I know a few of these teams have now been put in the south bracket but they are traditional north teams) and even Central Region has had a lot more variety in power teams that have won state titles or competed for such. Just look at the VHSL Book of Records. Like I said if the North fielded an all star regional team or if your fielded a Westfield or Braddock or Centreville and included a few standout players added to that core team from the other north schools the 757 would be completely shut out altogether.

And who couldn't win with the OLakes roster - a two year old could figure out to hand the ball to the 250 pound guys....so give the coaching staff credit for assembling the team, that is where the credit is due and where VHSL turns its back. Guess they must want to spread the championships around a bit....

I think that a lot of us are curious about where you get your information about what goes on in the 757. When you call Annandale a "top teier 6A power" it doesn't exactly make you sound like an insider.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

You know instead of whining like a pathetic little child produce your proof to the VHSL. It's odd that the people who compete against these schools week in and week out are not screaming loudly and they are the ones who actually suffer the most from the practices you allege. Seems to me the mods did you a favor banning you in the past as they saved you from embarrassing yourself even further.

 

[nic7fan]

Look at the VHSL Book of Records which is a tab on the Football part of their site. Then look at 6A champions list in the Football section. Yes it has been awhile for Annandale and their dominance but that is my point - there has been a wide array of dominant teams in the North across the years while only a few from the South. Directly related in my opinion to how the different areas try to compete, i.e., building from within (North) or from outside (South).

And by the way I never claimed to be an "insider" I am just a fan who does not like the way the South teams go about building programs even though they are public schools.....that's all. There has been ample discussion and references/links on this site before about recruiting and transferring down there. I am not writing a newspaper article.....

 

[nic7fan]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


Thanks for sharing your opinion. If there are no problems, then why do the other schools down there suffer?

You all seem to know something is going on but are not willing to just say it....

 

[phantom]

Originally posted by nic7fan:
And kudos to this site for not banning me for a few weeks yet like last time I raised these uncomfortable truths abut 757.....if you all do not hear from me for a few weeks you will know why....

It's still early.

 

[phantom]

Originally posted by nic7fan:
Look at the VHSL Book of Records which is a tab on the Football part of their site. Then look at 6A champions list in the Football section. Yes it has been awhile for Annandale and their dominance but that is my point - there has been a wide array of dominant teams in the North across the years while only a few from the South. Directly related in my opinion to how the different areas try to compete, i.e., building from within (North) or from outside (South).

And by the way I never claimed to be an "insider" I am just a fan who does not like the way the South teams go about building programs even though they are public schools.....that's all. There has been ample discussion and references/links on this site before about recruiting and transferring down there. I am not writing a newspaper article.....

So, you don't know what you're talking about but don't mind saying it anyway? Well, you came to the right place.

 

[nic7fan]

Funny remark, but I would be proud to be banned again if it is a result of speaking my mind about a situation that just is not cool. By the way, the 757's own websites talk about the transfers, the Lakes/Smith web TV announcers on NHFS mentioned a number of transfers, and there have been many other discussions here and elsewhere that suggests a heck of a lot of smoke and perhaps even fire.

In fact, I will help the site out and stop posting because I see clearly that many of you are uncomfortable with these things being raised up. So be it, I am a nobody, just a fan like everyone else, VHSL is not going to look into it, the hubris of these few teams in 757 is not going to change, life's not fair, whatever.

Enjoy talking to each other though using whatever misconceptions or falsehoods or excuses that collectively get you through the day.

In the future, I will be rooting for any school north or south that has been built up internally and not like a private school or college program.

Peace out and happy holidays.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Never said there was a problem, said the schools that suffer the most from what you ALLEGE are the ones who compete on a weekly basis and IF there was a problem they should be the ones whining not you. It has absolutely nothing to do with being willing to just say it and everything to do with competing instead of whining like a little child. If you have proof present it, otherwise, you're beating a dead horse, embarrassing yourself and devaluing the efforts of the kids that compete on the field. Also, FYI transferring is legal under VHSL rules as long as the prescribed conditions are met. Again, let it go, you aren't campaigning for any real issue just something in your imaginary little world.
This post was edited on 12/18 2:35 PM by cutnjump

 

[nic7fan]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


Ok since you have monopoly on brilliance and all that is right, I will walk away "embarrassed"

You all have gotten so jaded you don't even see or care to see what is happening to Virginia football in front of your eyes. Part of bigger trends of course but the 757 is certainly all in to that approach.


Have fun. I will be happy now to stop posting so you can stop trying to debate me if you want.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


It was never a debate but, it was an attempt to educate you. If that is your biggest worry about the trends and issues facing Virginia high school football, specifically, and football in general you probably need to look at the game with a much wider lens.

 

[nic7fan]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


Thanks for "educating" me.....I understand the wider lens but see particular problems in how the few 757 teams conduct themselves.

Again, if you stop posting to me I will be happy to stop posting to this site. You all drank the 757 koolaid long ago, I am wasting my time.

 

[cutnjump]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

As far as your last missive no one is asking you to stop posting. Post whatever you like just don't get offended when asked to support your position or let the topic die. Also, the passive aggressive plea to "stop posting to me" followed with another parting shot isn't a very effective way of letting a topic die. FYI, I am not from the 757 and don't have a rooting interest in this debate other than seeing VAHS football flourish.
This post was edited on 12/18 3:32 PM by cutnjump

 

[GurskyT]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Originally posted by TBone:
Nic, please provide valuable proof of the SLEW of kids that transferred into the school. We'd LOVE to hear the rumors be validated into news. Until then, congrats to Ocean Lakes and much love and respect to Centreville and its accolades accomplished for many, many years. NoVa Football is some of the best football played nationwide.

classy post tbone

Transferring, recruiting, etc. has been a topic on here that pops up on here on occasion and does not seem to go away. I talk to just about zero people outside of this board about VA high school sports, so I really wouldn't know if recruiting actually does in fact go on.

I will say one thing that I have noticed over the past decade: programs that win attract players from other schools. It comes down to either two things that they want; to play for a winning team, or to have a better shot at exposure for recruiting attention at the hot program. The specialty programs that schools offer are the perfect loophole for a player living outside the boundary line of school X to transfer in and start playing for their new team. Not only that, but you have instances where mommy and daddy will go so far for their child as to change homes and move into the boundary of the high school they want their kid to play for the next 2 or 3 years. That in itself is a big move considering that high school is only a short four years before moving on in life, but parents want the best for their kids. In both cases, it is that simple. Transferring, as said above, is what it is. When successful teams out there have a few known transfers and then random people under fake user names on message boards or online newspaper websites start to stir things up and immediately claim that coaches are recruiting. The people that do start these topics and stir things up, either A) Will not post under a real name, or B) Have no legit information to back up the gossip. Probably both 99% of the time.

It is easy for me to say all of this because like I said I do not know if recruiting does or does not go on. Would I be surprised if it did? No. Would not be surprised at all, but obviously there are conditions where players can transfer legally. Not exclusive to the 757 teams either. Happens all over the state I would think. Although I would like to see more schools in that area challenge more for the region instead of the same one or two schools.

nic7fan I'm not directing this post all at you, just adding in my thoughts, and I also do not think you should be getting banned for bringing up this discussion. It is something that may have much more deeper information than being said. I do find it interesting though that you will bring up all the transfers that Ocean Lakes has but would not mention that they actually had one of their top players transfer in to Landstown where he played this season. Just one player, yeah, but just an example that it goes the other way as well.


This post was edited on 12/18 7:50 PM by GurskyT

 

[TBone]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Goes in waves Gursky. Used to be Indian River primarily in D6. Then Deep Creek and Western Branch had their turns. Princess Anne, Bayside and Salem had runs. Landstown had its run. Ocean Lakes finally got a title and Oscar Smith's zone is a boom of talent and always has been, peep the Chesapeake rec and middle school leagues to back up that statement. Good things don't last forever. Surprised nic doesn't harp on L.C. Bird's success.

 

[m.ur]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

The transfers in the South are a sign of the times. Kids will flock to a program, coach, other players, club (aau/7v7) connections and have no loyalty to their neighborhood or where they grow up. They will move to a hot new team a build a "dynasty". If I am honest about it I don't really care. I don't see any rules being broken.

But this is not really how it is in the north, especially the concord. Kids grow up in the youth league and know where they are going to high school by the 6th grade and thats where they stay and you better not think of playing for another school.

You can understand why it would slightly bother some people when a team of kids from a district area team up and go to one school and they beat a team from the north whose kids attended one school and one school only.

That makes sense right? A little old school vs new school thinking.

We all agree that parity in the north is a lot better. But I have been curious about exactly how much better and maybe someone can help me with this question:

How many different team from either Smith's district or Ocean Lakes District have won a 6A title in the last 20 years?

I know in the last 20 years 5 of the 6 concord teams have won at least once.

 

[VaPrepsRod]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm

Originally posted by m.ur:

But this is not really how it is in the north,


That's not really true. I know at least two schools in the north who routinely get accused of recruiting annually

Originally posted by m.ur:

We all agree that parity in the north is a lot better. But I have been curious about exactly how much better and maybe someone can help me with this question:

How many different team from either Smith's district or Ocean Lakes District have won a 6A title in the last 20 years?

State titles? Not many.

Regional titles? Ocean Lakes, Salem, Bayside, Landstown, Oscar Smith, Western Branch and Deep Creek have all won the region since 2000.

That's seven different teams.

In the same time frame, the North's regional title has been won by six programs-- Centreville, Robinson, Oakton, Westfield, Chantilly, and Lake Braddock.

Can we revisit your "parity in the north" thoughts again?

 

[GilliamRatings]

Re: This talk comes about ONLY when a 757 team wins....nm


I was going to say, there have been some pretty famous transfers in the Northern Region.