A question for the forum members.

[DinwiddieProud]

In light of the fact that some schools and/or school districts came out strongly for severing the VHSL ties with LU, what is your opinion? Not on the statement that mentioned Muslims. Rather, your opinion about the VHSH being associated with a university that openly encourages the legal possession of firearms on campus.

Opinions about LU are typically polarizing, regardless of topic. But for purposes of this particular thread, please base your opinion exclusively on the "bearing of fire arms on campus" and if this is reason enough for the VHSL to break ties.

Please don't give us a rant. State your stance, but justify your position.

This may well be a particularly sensitive topic because of the tragedy at Virginia Tech. (And, with incident that occurred at Smith Mountain Lake). I remind everyone to frame their thoughts in a manner that is respectful to all that were affected. Thank you and let's have a good debate.

 

[Keith_Stone33]

I am open to them still having the games there. Its a great facility, I don't involve myself with the politics of any of the championship sites, I go to watch the games.

 

[shauntclair]

The VHSL never wanted LCA in but the games are played at LU Stadium where University students are allowed to carry firearms. It is an excellent loophole for the VHSL to at least discontinue home games at LU temporarily. Of course, then the LU legal juggernaut will take over and file an injunction that will retain the schedule, as is, for this year. Unwilling to spend the money to fight, the VHSL will have to back off and things will go back to as they are.

I think the only available form of protest available is for teams to simply refuse to play at LU. The VHSL can't force anyone but teams refusing will forfeit the games. Probably, no one wants to do that, especially when it may only take one or two forfeits to put LCA in the playoffs, which makes LU a winner in the free weapons carry anyway.

 

[wikki]

The VHSL never wanted LCA in but the games are played at LU Stadium where University students are allowed to carry firearms. It is an excellent loophole for the VHSL to at least discontinue home games at LU temporarily. Of course, then the LU legal juggernaut will take over and file an injunction that will retain the schedule, as is, for this year. Unwilling to spend the money to fight, the VHSL will have to back off and things will go back to as they are.

I think the only available form of protest available is for teams to simply refuse to play at LU. The VHSL can't force anyone but teams refusing will forfeit the games. Probably, no one wants to do that, especially when it may only take one or two forfeits to put LCA in the playoffs, which makes LU a winner in the free weapons carry anyway.

In light of the fact that some schools and/or school districts came out strongly for severing the VHSL ties with LU, what is your opinion? Not on the statement that mentioned Muslims. Rather, your opinion about the VHSH being associated with a university that openly encourages the legal possession of firearms on campus.

Opinions about LU are typically polarizing, regardless of topic. But for purposes of this particular thread, please base your opinion exclusively on the "bearing of fire arms on campus" and if this is reason enough for the VHSL to break ties.

Please don't give us a rant. State your stance, but justify your position.

This may well be a particularly sensitive topic because of the tragedy at Virginia Tech. (And, with incident that occurred at Smith Mountain Lake). I remind everyone to frame their thoughts in a manner that is respectful to all that were affected. Thank you and let's have a good debate.

i liked the games at LU for several reasons but I also stated last year that I didn't like the fact that if LCA made it to states that they would be playing on their home field but that would be hard to change if late in the season. LU is an awesome facility and the fact they allow guns doesn't affect me one at all, matter of fact, I am for it. If the games are moved for a while it is no big deal but I would bet that it will change later. There has to be more to this story

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I too, am an advocate of trained persons arming themselves with guns. Bad people want easy targets, not to confront people with weapons and the training to use them.

I agree Wikki, my gut tells me that there is more to this story. I find it strange that the VHSL would give the appearance of "getting even" or "taunting" LCA and LU. After all, LU could could cost the VHSL a small fortune by challenging their actions in court. I'll be curious to see if LU will offer a public response to the VHSL announcement?

 

[shauntclair]

I too, am an advocate of trained persons arming themselves with guns. Bad people want easy targets, not to confront people with weapons and the training to use them.

I agree Wikki, my gut tells me that there is more to this story. I find it strange that the VHSL would give the appearance of "getting even" or "taunting" LCA and LU. After all, LU could could cost the VHSL a small fortune by challenging their actions in court. I'll be curious to see if LU will offer a public response to the VHSL announcement?

No disrespect. I am not an advocate of people arming themselves for protective purposes. The bigger the population becomes, so does the level of stupidity. Arming the stupid is simply disaster waiting to happen.

People also quote the Constitutionality of the "Right to Bear arms". Well, it actually says, "The right to bear arms in defense of one's Country". At the time it was written, this was put in there so American's would lawfully be able to have a Militia. An armed group of citizens that could fight against the British. It was never intended that any Joe Blow idiot could walk down the street with a gun.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Your point is taken, but the wording is not exactly as you stated, although your interpretation is inferred.

But, at this point in time, the law of the land is that Joe Blow can arm himself.

Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[shauntclair]

Your point is taken, but the wording is not exactly as you stated, although your interpretation is inferred.

But, at this point in time, the law of the land is that Joe Blow can arm himself.

Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

To be a Militia and defend the State. I believe that's why we have a Military and Police Departments now. having a the Joe Blows of this world armed is a mistake. Now, I do support people's right to hunt and use arms in sport shooting. Concealed or open carry for your own protection, no. Just too many stupid people.

Now, there are exceptions even I can tolerate. I spent a lot of time in Alaska and just about everyone open carries and that is for self protection. Bears and other critters are very common, even in a town like Anchorage, which is really quite small. I had to stop one evening for a Moose that refused to move from the road. A guy in a pickup came behind me, got out of his car, shot his gun and the Moose moved. He then chided me for not having my gun, especially with all the Bears roaming around. In his view, I was nuts. I suppose if I lived there, I would feel the same.

But LU students? No chance.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

In light of the fact that some schools and/or school districts came out strongly for severing the VHSL ties with LU, what is your opinion? Not on the statement that mentioned Muslims. Rather, your opinion about the VHSH being associated with a university that openly encourages the legal possession of firearms on campus.

Opinions about LU are typically polarizing, regardless of topic. But for purposes of this particular thread, please base your opinion exclusively on the "bearing of fire arms on campus" and if this is reason enough for the VHSL to break ties.

Please don't give us a rant. State your stance, but justify your position.

This may well be a particularly sensitive topic because of the tragedy at Virginia Tech. (And, with incident that occurred at Smith Mountain Lake). I remind everyone to frame their thoughts in a manner that is respectful to all that were affected. Thank you and let's have a good debate.

Based on most of what I've picked up from reading everyones' posts over the years, I'm probably one of the more liberal people who posts regularly. So I can offer an opinion from that end of the spectrum. I'm not interested in debating any of the following, as that's been done ad nauseum on plenty of more appropriate forums. I'm just offering my opinion, as DP requested.

My personal opinion is that the US has a problem with runaway gun violence that is approaching, or has already reached, critical mass. I'm in favor of anything that reduces the availability and presence of firearms amongst the general populace. That said, that genie got out of the bottle decades ago, and unfortunately there's probably no going back. That's my personal opinion on the subject, which is relevant because it's diametrically opposed to that of LU's leaders. Yet, I still attend games there. What the VHSL's opinion on the matter is is their business, and doesn't affect my attendance of events either way. As Keith_Stone said, the politics of the host site don't really concern me. Well, they do concern me (in the sense that I disagree with them), but not enough to keep me from attending an event that is important to me.

As DP pointed out, LU tends to polarize people. I am not a fan of LU, it's founder, or its current leader, in any regard. Like, not a fan at all, if you catch my drift. I realize many here are, so...different strokes. Agree to disagree, etc. When I first went to Williams Stadium for the 2004 state title game, I was completely underwhelmed. They have improved the facility over the last twelve years. [About the best I can say is, if you're willing to walk a little from across 460, the parking is easy in, easy out.] Still, I'm in favor of anything that moves the football games, and all high school events away from LU; I never liked having to go there, for any reason. If the reason for moving happens to be VHSL disdain for LU's firearm policy, so be it. The VHSL can break ties for whatever reason they want, as long as they're not violating a contract. For me, literally any place else is better. Hopefully, that didn't qualify as a rant.

W&M will have a lovely, just-renovated Zable Stadium ready in December. Embrace it. If Salem's there, I'll be there; if not, I won't be. Exactly the same as if the game were (or is) still at LU.

 

[gwb16]

We don't have a gun problem in this country. We have nurtured and enabled a society that thrives off of excuses. We have a common decency problem. We have a total unabated disrespect for our fellow man - in SOME social settings. The highest murder rates in this country reside SQUARELY in the middle of the most liberal cities in this country, with the most stringent gun laws in place. Undeniable truth. Like it or not. The numbers don't lie.

Education is key to responsible ownership. My boys were shooting at a very early age. Proper safety techniques were taught from day one. But listen to me, sounds like I'm preaching about personal responsibility and accountability, neither have a place in society today. Hell, we can't even decide where someone should take a frigging pee break.

The 2nd will never be overturned. There will be another Revolution before that happens...or Civil War, whatever you care to call it.

Your problem isn't the law abiding citizen that purchases guns legally. The criminal element is the root of our problems. And the occasional mental health aspect.

I carry, every day. Not because I feel threatened or I feel the need to look menacing. I'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. No one in my family will ever be labeled an unprepared victim.

We hunt. We shoot. We reload our own. And we enjoy the sport of it. We enjoy the freedom to do so. I'm 49 years old and I have NEVER found myself in a situation that I thought would warrant my brandishing, much less discharging my weapon in a defensive manner. But I also don't find myself in positions or places that would compromise me or my families safety....but then there's that whole personal accountability and responsibility "thingy". We all have choices in life. Either you CHOOSE do the right thing or CHOOSE to do the wrong thing. Your life's choices aren't a product of the 2nd Amendment.

I know that casts a wide blanket, I admit that there are some scenarios that don't fit that model, but those numbers exceedingly pale in comparison.

MOLON LABE - SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED - FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

College campus'...you have to be 21 or older to conceal carry with a permit. You have to be 21 to purchase one from an FFL. Which requires a background check. You can open carry a sidearm at 18, and the weapon can be gifted by a family member or the individual may purchase it from a private sales. I don't know what LU is doing, but I would advocate college campus' holding a gun safety class for every student that wants to carry on campus, to ensure proper handling techniques are taught and reinforced. To include range time to physically prove that one is capable of handling the firearm.

When I was in high school, we carried shotguns or rifles in our vehicles to go hunting after school during hunting season....my how times have changed.

Fear mongering running amok.

And before anyone jumps in on the "background checks"....they are sufficient and much better than any vetting process our Government can concoct with regards to Middle Eastern refugees (Muslim or Christian).

Carry on.....(pun intended)!

 

[DinwiddieProud]

gwb, could I interest you in running for President?

 

[DinwiddieProud]

As a follow up, I had the good fortune to hear Moses, (aka, Charlton Heston), at a forum about a year before his health started to fail. What a dynamic human being. Especially for someone that worked in that cesspool we call Hollywood.

 

[wikki]

We don't have a gun problem in this country. We have nurtured and enabled a society that thrives off of excuses. We have a common decency problem. We have a total unabated disrespect for our fellow man - in SOME social settings. The highest murder rates in this country reside SQUARELY in the middle of the most liberal cities in this country, with the most stringent gun laws in place. Undeniable truth. Like it or not. The numbers don't lie.

Education is key to responsible ownership. My boys were shooting at a very early age. Proper safety techniques were taught from day one. But listen to me, sounds like I'm preaching about personal responsibility and accountability, neither have a place in society today. Hell, we can't even decide where someone should take a frigging pee break.

The 2nd will never be overturned. There will be another Revolution before that happens...or Civil War, whatever you care to call it.

Your problem isn't the law abiding citizen that purchases guns legally. The criminal element is the root of our problems. And the occasional mental health aspect.

I carry, every day. Not because I feel threatened or I feel the need to look menacing. I'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. No one in my family will ever be labeled an unprepared victim.

We hunt. We shoot. We reload our own. And we enjoy the sport of it. We enjoy the freedom to do so. I'm 49 years old and I have NEVER found myself in a situation that I thought would warrant my brandishing, much less discharging my weapon in a defensive manner. But I also don't find myself in positions or places that would compromise me or my families safety....but then there's that whole personal accountability and responsibility "thingy". We all have choices in life. Either you CHOOSE do the right thing or CHOOSE to do the wrong thing. Your life's choices aren't a product of the 2nd Amendment.

I know that casts a wide blanket, I admit that there are some scenarios that don't fit that model, but those numbers exceedingly pale in comparison.

MOLON LABE - SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED - FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

College campus'...you have to be 21 or older to conceal carry with a permit. You have to be 21 to purchase one from an FFL. Which requires a background check. You can open carry a sidearm at 18, and the weapon can be gifted by a family member or the individual may purchase it from a private sales. I don't know what LU is doing, but I would advocate college campus' holding a gun safety class for every student that wants to carry on campus, to ensure proper handling techniques are taught and reinforced. To include range time to physically prove that one is capable of handling the firearm.

When I was in high school, we carried shotguns or rifles in our vehicles to go hunting after school during hunting season....my how times have changed.

Fear mongering running amok.

And before anyone jumps in on the "background checks"....they are sufficient and much better than any vetting process our Government can concoct with regards to Middle Eastern refugees (Muslim or Christian).

Carry on.....(pun intended)!

I think the games would be safer at LU because they can carry weapons. People who want to target a place or people has no intention of going somewhere where they know guns are allowed

 

[SpartanOfYore]

We don't have a gun problem in this country. We have nurtured and enabled a society that thrives off of excuses. We have a common decency problem. We have a total unabated disrespect for our fellow man - in SOME social settings. The highest murder rates in this country reside SQUARELY in the middle of the most liberal cities in this country, with the most stringent gun laws in place. Undeniable truth. Like it or not. The numbers don't lie.

Education is key to responsible ownership. My boys were shooting at a very early age. Proper safety techniques were taught from day one. But listen to me, sounds like I'm preaching about personal responsibility and accountability, neither have a place in society today. Hell, we can't even decide where someone should take a frigging pee break.

The 2nd will never be overturned. There will be another Revolution before that happens...or Civil War, whatever you care to call it.

Your problem isn't the law abiding citizen that purchases guns legally. The criminal element is the root of our problems. And the occasional mental health aspect.

I carry, every day. Not because I feel threatened or I feel the need to look menacing. I'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. No one in my family will ever be labeled an unprepared victim.

We hunt. We shoot. We reload our own. And we enjoy the sport of it. We enjoy the freedom to do so. I'm 49 years old and I have NEVER found myself in a situation that I thought would warrant my brandishing, much less discharging my weapon in a defensive manner. But I also don't find myself in positions or places that would compromise me or my families safety....but then there's that whole personal accountability and responsibility "thingy". We all have choices in life. Either you CHOOSE do the right thing or CHOOSE to do the wrong thing. Your life's choices aren't a product of the 2nd Amendment.

I know that casts a wide blanket, I admit that there are some scenarios that don't fit that model, but those numbers exceedingly pale in comparison.

MOLON LABE - SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED - FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

College campus'...you have to be 21 or older to conceal carry with a permit. You have to be 21 to purchase one from an FFL. Which requires a background check. You can open carry a sidearm at 18, and the weapon can be gifted by a family member or the individual may purchase it from a private sales. I don't know what LU is doing, but I would advocate college campus' holding a gun safety class for every student that wants to carry on campus, to ensure proper handling techniques are taught and reinforced. To include range time to physically prove that one is capable of handling the firearm.

When I was in high school, we carried shotguns or rifles in our vehicles to go hunting after school during hunting season....my how times have changed.

Fear mongering running amok.

And before anyone jumps in on the "background checks"....they are sufficient and much better than any vetting process our Government can concoct with regards to Middle Eastern refugees (Muslim or Christian).

Carry on.....(pun intended)!

We all have our opinions. I respect the rights of others to have theirs, regardless of how stringently I disagree with them.

I said I wasn't interested in debating, and I'll stick to that. I knew going in that, amongst people in Virginia (especially the southwest portion) I'm in the minority on this issue. No one is going to change anyone's opinion here. I will point out that the above is basically the stock NRA commercial, founded in a twisted interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (the part about a well regulated militia always seems to be conveniently omitted), and built on rationalization, denial, and a gross insensitivity that completely marginalizes the welfare of the community. Case in point: "But I also don't find myself in positions or places that would compromise me or my families safety....but then there's that whole personal accountability and responsibility "thingy." " I don't view people doing their jobs, sitting in their cars, dining in restaurants, going to movies, or sitting in classrooms - from college down to kindergarten - as putting themselves in compromising positions. For exactly what transgression those who died in those kinds of situations need to be held "accountable and responsible", I can't begin to fathom.

If anyone is interested in the other side of the coin - oh say, the commercial for "The Inherent Right To Live One's Life" - look on the Internet. Many people who are much more intelligent than I, and are much better writers, have articles on the subject all over the place.

I don't have a really witty pun with which to end. Perhaps I should have thought of one during the three hours I stood in line at the Salem High auditorium last August.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

DP, I seem to be the only dissenting voice, as I thought would be the case, so I won't further poop all over your thread.

Heston is one of my favorite actors, regardless of how his personal political beliefs morphed over his lifetime. I'm sure for all of us, it can sometimes be challenging to separate the artist from the art they create.

 

[ClarkeFan83]

gwb, could I interest you in running for President?

George W. Bush was President twice already, he can't be it again. Sheesh, don't you know about term limits?

 

[ClarkeFan83]

We don't have a gun problem in this country. We have nurtured and enabled a society that thrives off of excuses. We have a common decency problem. We have a total unabated disrespect for our fellow man - in SOME social settings. The highest murder rates in this country reside SQUARELY in the middle of the most liberal cities in this country, with the most stringent gun laws in place. Undeniable truth. Like it or not. The numbers don't lie.

Education is key to responsible ownership. My boys were shooting at a very early age. Proper safety techniques were taught from day one. But listen to me, sounds like I'm preaching about personal responsibility and accountability, neither have a place in society today. Hell, we can't even decide where someone should take a frigging pee break.

The 2nd will never be overturned. There will be another Revolution before that happens...or Civil War, whatever you care to call it.

Your problem isn't the law abiding citizen that purchases guns legally. The criminal element is the root of our problems. And the occasional mental health aspect.

I carry, every day. Not because I feel threatened or I feel the need to look menacing. I'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. No one in my family will ever be labeled an unprepared victim.

We hunt. We shoot. We reload our own. And we enjoy the sport of it. We enjoy the freedom to do so. I'm 49 years old and I have NEVER found myself in a situation that I thought would warrant my brandishing, much less discharging my weapon in a defensive manner. But I also don't find myself in positions or places that would compromise me or my families safety....but then there's that whole personal accountability and responsibility "thingy". We all have choices in life. Either you CHOOSE do the right thing or CHOOSE to do the wrong thing. Your life's choices aren't a product of the 2nd Amendment.

I know that casts a wide blanket, I admit that there are some scenarios that don't fit that model, but those numbers exceedingly pale in comparison.

MOLON LABE - SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED - FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

College campus'...you have to be 21 or older to conceal carry with a permit. You have to be 21 to purchase one from an FFL. Which requires a background check. You can open carry a sidearm at 18, and the weapon can be gifted by a family member or the individual may purchase it from a private sales. I don't know what LU is doing, but I would advocate college campus' holding a gun safety class for every student that wants to carry on campus, to ensure proper handling techniques are taught and reinforced. To include range time to physically prove that one is capable of handling the firearm.

When I was in high school, we carried shotguns or rifles in our vehicles to go hunting after school during hunting season....my how times have changed.

Fear mongering running amok.

And before anyone jumps in on the "background checks"....they are sufficient and much better than any vetting process our Government can concoct with regards to Middle Eastern refugees (Muslim or Christian).

Carry on.....(pun intended)!

I'd rather have it and not need it than not have it and need it.

 

[gwb16]

DP, I seem to be the only dissenting voice, as I thought would be the case, so I won't further poop all over your thread.

Heston is one of my favorite actors, regardless of how his personal political beliefs morphed over his lifetime. I'm sure for all of us, it can sometimes be challenging to separate the artist from the art they create.

Spartan...I TOTALLY respect your opinion, with no exceptions what-so-ever. You know....that 1st is protected by the 2nd. When Government overreaches it's authority, a well regulated militia DOES become necessary...just a thought.

Our social, economic and family backgrounds, our life experiences drive our personal opinions.
Not to debate, but "soft targets" - "gun free zones" are the proving grounds that big bad gun toting bad guys love to feast upon. Aurora, CO would have had an entirely different outcome if law abiding citizens, were "allowed" to carry in the movie theater. I placed quotations around "allowed" because there isn't any law on the books that makes it illegal to carry in a movie theater. The most that could come out of it would be a trespassing charge and only if they refused to leave after being asked. Concealed carry has it's merits. Soft targets. Suicide bombers don't seem to care that it's illegal. Drunk drivers? We can toss this back and forth all day but it won't sway either of us in a favorable direction.

 

[Cougardave]

So in essence what the VHSL is bothered by is the fact that Liberty University not only allows those who are legally able to obtain a firearm to do that, but then encourages them to seek further training, become more effective and safer with that firearm, and then encourages them to legally and safely carry that firearm in a concealed manner.

Yep, I can see where they would have an issue with that. (face palm)

 

[gwb16]

George W. Bush was President twice already, he can't be it again. Sheesh, don't you know about term limits?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA unlike G-DUB, I can actually pronounce "Nuclear"...prerequisite for working at a nuke plant!

 

[DinwiddieProud]

So in essence what the VHSL is bothered by is the fact that Liberty University not only allows those who are legally able to obtain a firearm to do that, but then encourages them to seek further training, become more effective and safer with that firearm, and then encourages them to legally and safely carry that firearm in a concealed manner.

Yep, I can see where they would have an issue with that. (face palm)

The truth is Cougardave, I don't think the upper echelons of the VHSL really have a problem with LU and their stance on guns. I believe that they came out with the press release about moving the venue as an attempt to appease the group of school systems that vocalized their dislike of the LU policy. And in a way, that's what they should do. Represent the wishes of their member schools.

However, has there ever been a show of hands at a statewide meeting to see how many schools feel the same way? Nope, as far as I know. So the truth is, it's a knee jerk reaction, driven by a few, without the knowledge or apporval of the majority.

Spartan, I'm sure you are not the only one on here with you stance. But you are the only one with the guts to state your position. Sir, I respect that tremendously.

I had to chuckle to myself as I was reading. I was reminded of the old saying that my wife has laid on me many times. She said that "I'm entitled to my opinion, even if it is wrong". She is not nearly as democratic about it as I am! Bless her little heart.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Hey Clarke, DSH has your contact info. I sent it to him this morning.

 

[gwb16]

The truth is Cougardave, I don't think the upper echelons of the VHSL really have a problem with LU and their stance on guns. I believe that they came out with the press release about moving the venue as an attempt to appease the group of school systems that vocalized their dislike of the LU policy. And in a way, that's what they should do. Represent the wishes of their member schools.

However, has there ever been a show of hands at a statewide meeting to see how many schools feel the same way? Nope, as far as I know. So the truth is, it's a knee jerk reaction, driven by a few, without the knowledge or apporval of the majority.

Spartan, I'm sure you are not the only one on here with you stance. But you are the only one with the guts to state your position. Sir, I respect that tremendously.

I had to chuckle to myself as I was reading. I was reminded of the old saying that my wife has laid on me many times. She said that "I'm entitled to my opinion, even if it is wrong". She is not nearly as democratic about it as I am! Bless her little heart.

I hesitated in responding, only because my opinion was more of 2nd Amendment commentary in nature.
The VHSL represents the body of schools and if there was a majority that felt uncomfortable with LU's new policy, then it's certainly cause for action. But also, please remember a majority in today's political climate consists of ONE singular individual. The or "I'll sue" bunch rules the roost today.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

One thing that makes the VHSL a joke, is the crime stats of Richmond (location of VHSL basketball tournament) compared to crime stats of Lynchburg. I feel a lot safer walking down University Blvd in Lynchburg, than I do walking down a back alley in Richmond, after finding a parking space. I don't always carry my gun to Liberty University, but I always carry it when I am in Richmond.
Everyone should "Google" the number of shootings and/or murders and robberies in Richmond compared to Lynchburg. Lynchburg is a lot safer city than Richmond. LU is a safer college than VCU.

 

[phantom]

One thing that makes the VHSL a joke, is the crime stats of Richmond (location of VHSL basketball tournament) compared to crime stats of Lynchburg. I feel a lot safer walking down University Blvd in Lynchburg, than I do walking down a back alley in Richmond, after finding a parking space. I don't always carry my gun to Liberty University, but I always carry it when I am in Richmond.
Everyone should "Google" the number of shootings and/or murders and robberies in Richmond compared to Lynchburg. Lynchburg is a lot safer city than Richmond. LU is a safer college than VCU.

But VCU didn't sue the VHSL.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Spartan...I TOTALLY respect your opinion, with no exceptions what-so-ever. You know....that 1st is protected by the 2nd. When Government overreaches it's authority, a well regulated militia DOES become necessary...just a thought.

Our social, economic and family backgrounds, our life experiences drive our personal opinions.
Not to debate, but "soft targets" - "gun free zones" are the proving grounds that big bad gun toting bad guys love to feast upon. Aurora, CO would have had an entirely different outcome if law abiding citizens, were "allowed" to carry in the movie theater. I placed quotations around "allowed" because there isn't any law on the books that makes it illegal to carry in a movie theater. The most that could come out of it would be a trespassing charge and only if they refused to leave after being asked. Concealed carry has it's merits. Soft targets. Suicide bombers don't seem to care that it's illegal. Drunk drivers? We can toss this back and forth all day but it won't sway either of us in a favorable direction.

Well, again I disagree with much of what you wrote, but to get into a protracted, pointless back-and-forth would be further "debating", which I feel - on this particular topic - has no place on VaPreps.

So, I will just tip my cap, agree to disagree, and thank you for at least keeping the discussion civil.

 

[shauntclair]

All the training classes in the world does little for tragedy prevention when it's the mental stability of the individuals that is the problem. Training just makes them better shots. In addition, if someone fires at you, do you have the training or experience to react in what amounts to a fire fight? Targets are one thing, firing at another human being is something else. Even when you are the one being fired at.

It's not the guns that scare me. It's the people. From my perspective and experience, the vast majority of Americans should simply not be allowed to carry weapons. They're just too plain stupid. Guns have no place on a College Campus and should be banned entirely.

Does anyone really think the VT tragedy would have been prevented by kids or teachers carrying weapons? No matter what efforts have been made to increase security, we still can't prevent the mentally disturbed from doing what they do. Increasing the availability of weapons on a College Campus simply increases the possibility of tragedy.

 

[gwb16]

All the training classes in the world does little for tragedy prevention when it's the mental stability of the individuals that is the problem. Training just makes them better shots. In addition, if someone fires at you, do you have the training or experience to react in what amounts to a fire fight? Targets are one thing, firing at another human being is something else. Even when you are the one being fired at.

It's not the guns that scare me. It's the people. From my perspective and experience, the vast majority of Americans should simply not be allowed to carry weapons. They're just too plain stupid. Guns have no place on a College Campus and should be banned entirely.

Does anyone really think the VT tragedy would have been prevented by kids or teachers carrying weapons? No matter what efforts have been made to increase security, we still can't prevent the mentally disturbed from doing what they do. Increasing the availability of weapons on a College Campus simply increases the possibility of tragedy.

Just curious...how many crimes (murders) are committed by the mentally unstable compared to actual acts of violence? Hate driven/crime of passion/gang related...or are you under the impression that anyone that owns/uses/carries a gun is mentally unstable?

LU is going to allow students to carry on campus. I'd rather be sitting in a class knowing that Johnny Comelately has passed a requisite course to be able to tote that sidearm efficiently and safely.

I agree with you, it isn't the guns, it is the people, but only the people that carry no sense of responsibility or accountability in their personal life. There have been almost 30 murders and over 100 people shot in Chicago ALONE in the last three years during the July 4th "celebrations". That's not a deranged, hell bent, mass murder. That's gang activity. No civility. That's not a gun problem, it's a society issue.

Another good point, being properly trained doesn't mean that one won't sit in the corner and wet their pants if faced with a real threat. In that case, bad guy wins. Can one pull the trigger and take out the assailant without harming others? No one knows for certain until they are placed in that position. Ex-military who have been in an actual war zone, probably can handle their business. But now we get back to the "soft target" discussion, I still don't believe Cho would have shot up VT if he knew that there were armed students and staff in possibly every classroom. And if he chose to go ahead with the rampage regardless, the injured and dead numbers would have been fewer. Someone would have taken him out. I know one kid that was injured, I know his family and he could have handled the situation if he had been armed. Well, I feel relatively confident that he could.

With HIPAA privacy rules in place, identifying and acting on the "unstable" is extremely difficult. And your definition of crazy could be wildly different than mine or anyone else. Slippery, difficult slope to maneuver.

Lumping a "vast majority" of Americans as unable to carry a firearm? How do we accomplish that? A test? IQ? Or some subjective individual making an educated guess about the stability of someone?

I would GLADLY make the case that the same could AND should be done to register to vote. But, we have two Amendments that protect those rights for two very specific groups of people....do we head off into the direction of picking and choosing which Amendments are applicable to certain groups or individuals? See, the 2nd, in a convoluted manner, helps protect those "rights". Like it or not.

Great discussion. EXTREMELY wide ranges of beliefs and disagreement. Another reason why I enjoy these boards so much. Diverse group of people and we are able to be more civilized about it than our politicians....sad times in DC.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Thank you gentlemen, this is the type of discussion I was hoping we would get.

 

[gwb16]

Thank you gentlemen, this is the type of discussion I was hoping we would get.

This is way better than Facebook, where people like to call each other ugly names...LOL!
I'm going to have to let it rest now. I do have a rather passionate opinion about the topic of guns and their place in society. I own many (I mean a butt load). And they are under lock and key in a VERY sturdy, large gun safe when no one is home. Damn...there I go with showing a semblance of responsibility again...WHAT is wrong with me?

Seriously, my comments weren't meant to be taken as argumentative, only offering a different POV. I always enjoy discussing this topic because one day, someone may actually be able to help me understand the "other side". Until then...

Carry on...

If anyone is interested in reading more about gun control issues and the grass roots efforts here in VA, check out VCDL.ORG very informative and proactive group. They work tirelessly for the citizens of VA.

 

[ClarkeFan83]

Well, again I disagree with much of what you wrote, but to get into a protracted, pointless back-and-forth would be further "debating", which I feel - on this particular topic - has no place on VaPreps.

So, I will just tip my cap, agree to disagree, and thank you for at least keeping the discussion civil.

As it should be.

 

[ClarkeFan83]

One thing that makes the VHSL a joke, is the crime stats of Richmond (location of VHSL basketball tournament) compared to crime stats of Lynchburg. I feel a lot safer walking down University Blvd in Lynchburg, than I do walking down a back alley in Richmond, after finding a parking space. I don't always carry my gun to Liberty University, but I always carry it when I am in Richmond.
Everyone should "Google" the number of shootings and/or murders and robberies in Richmond compared to Lynchburg. Lynchburg is a lot safer city than Richmond. LU is a safer college than VCU.

Not something a father of a very pretty daughter at VCU really wants to hear. But, she wants to take a shooting course and I've found what I think is a good one for her locally.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Here are another couple of websites doing good work on behalf of the US citizenry:

Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence
http://www.bradycampaign.org/

Everytown For Gun Safety
http://everytown.org

 

[DinwiddieProud]

This is the way it's supposed to be. Great job to GWB and Spartan. This constructive dialog reminds me of what occurred between a few forum members when the Tebow Bill debate first raged. There were a lot of participants, with a lot of comments, but very few were more than rants. But I remember a couple of members that went back and forth for a couple of months. I don't think, that in the end, either of them changed their position. But, I know the rest of us benefited from the well substantiated opinions that were proffered.

So thank you, to you two.

 

[AdvocateOfMany434]

Some are bashing the LU site due to their views on Christianity. Its a bias decision for them. 1 is not hiding it at all according to his post on this thread.

 

[shauntclair]

Just curious...how many crimes (murders) are committed by the mentally unstable compared to actual acts of violence? Hate driven/crime of passion/gang related...or are you under the impression that anyone that owns/uses/carries a gun is mentally unstable?

LU is going to allow students to carry on campus. I'd rather be sitting in a class knowing that Johnny Comelately has passed a requisite course to be able to tote that sidearm efficiently and safely.

I agree with you, it isn't the guns, it is the people, but only the people that carry no sense of responsibility or accountability in their personal life. There have been almost 30 murders and over 100 people shot in Chicago ALONE in the last three years during the July 4th "celebrations". That's not a deranged, hell bent, mass murder. That's gang activity. No civility. That's not a gun problem, it's a society issue.

Another good point, being properly trained doesn't mean that one won't sit in the corner and wet their pants if faced with a real threat. In that case, bad guy wins. Can one pull the trigger and take out the assailant without harming others? No one knows for certain until they are placed in that position. Ex-military who have been in an actual war zone, probably can handle their business. But now we get back to the "soft target" discussion, I still don't believe Cho would have shot up VT if he knew that there were armed students and staff in possibly every classroom. And if he chose to go ahead with the rampage regardless, the injured and dead numbers would have been fewer. Someone would have taken him out. I know one kid that was injured, I know his family and he could have handled the situation if he had been armed. Well, I feel relatively confident that he could.

With HIPAA privacy rules in place, identifying and acting on the "unstable" is extremely difficult. And your definition of crazy could be wildly different than mine or anyone else. Slippery, difficult slope to maneuver.

Lumping a "vast majority" of Americans as unable to carry a firearm? How do we accomplish that? A test? IQ? Or some subjective individual making an educated guess about the stability of someone?

I would GLADLY make the case that the same could AND should be done to register to vote. But, we have two Amendments that protect those rights for two very specific groups of people....do we head off into the direction of picking and choosing which Amendments are applicable to certain groups or individuals? See, the 2nd, in a convoluted manner, helps protect those "rights". Like it or not.

Great discussion. EXTREMELY wide ranges of beliefs and disagreement. Another reason why I enjoy these boards so much. Diverse group of people and we are able to be more civilized about it than our politicians....sad times in DC.

Voting rights and carrying firearms rights. Exactly equal? You're welcome to your opinion.

You don't believe Cho would have shot those people if he knew others were packing? Then you're as demented a he was. IMO, the injured may have been more. Nothing was going to stop this guy till he ran out of ammo or was dead, which he took care of himself. Firing back would simply have motivated him more.

But I won't discuss this anymore. You and I have experienced the world differently and make view points based on it. We'll simply have to disagree on our views. Very best to you and yours.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

At the end of the day, LU is the best venue in the state for championship games. Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopelessly lost somewhere in the forest.

 

[gwb16]

Voting rights and carrying firearms rights. Exactly equal? You're welcome to your opinion.

You don't believe Cho would have shot those people if he knew others were packing? Then you're as demented a he was. IMO, the injured may have been more. Nothing was going to stop this guy till he ran out of ammo or was dead, which he took care of himself. Firing back would simply have motivated him more.

But I won't discuss this anymore. You and I have experienced the world differently and make view points based on it. We'll simply have to disagree on our views. Very best to you and yours.

Yes exactly equal...you can't pick and choose which Amendments you want to apply, randomly. So at least you partially see the hypocrisy in the situation.

And, as expected, in your typical fashion, you denigrate to labeling me. Demented. I offered a respectful opinion on the topic and never once resorted to name calling, labeling or unnecessary posturing.

And now I'm finished. But, with one caveat, I don't have to offer "the very best to you and yours" as a means to kick dirt over any of my comments, because I haven't said anything that anyone could deem as disrespectful.

Carry on.

 

[shauntclair]

At the end of the day, LU is the best venue in the state for championship games. Anyone who thinks otherwise is hopelessly lost somewhere in the forest.

Yes, all the Ad's and Regional reps in the State are lost in the woods. Has nothing to do with best or worst venue anymore. This is about payback. LU will never get another contract from the VHSL. Deal with it.

 

[shauntclair]

Yes exactly equal...you can't pick and choose which Amendments you want to apply, randomly. So at least you partially see the hypocrisy in the situation.

And, as expected, in your typical fashion, you denigrate to labeling me. Demented. I offered a respectful opinion on the topic and never once resorted to name calling, labeling or unnecessary posturing.

And now I'm finished. But, with one caveat, I don't have to offer "the very best to you and yours" as a means to kick dirt over any of my comments, because I haven't said anything that anyone could deem as disrespectful.

Carry on.

i always respectfully bury the dead