But a good parent could and would stop it from happening again.
Appomattox/Dan River
- Thread starter mike salem
- Start date
Exactly.
And, if we benched a kid or kicked them off the team every time they did something the "adults" didn't approve of, would there be enough left to play a game?
To me the issue for which this movement has been started is a real and noble cause; but doing it during a team function takes away from the team and brings attention to "self". Not to mention in my opinion, being disrespectful to the many men and women who have fought, been injured or paid the ultimate sacrifice and died for our country. I just think it is the wrong time and place. Meet once a week in public in front of the courthouse or some other place or better yet organize peaceful marches. But that would require some individual sacrifice of time and planning and would not offend others. As it is, the only true sacrifice being made by this display at a football game is being made by teammates, coaches and fans who are offended...or has that been the goal all along?
I completely agree. I am not going to pretend I know what anyone else goes through in this country or around the world, and as a white male I don't know what it is like for african americans, and I can see the need for bringing up the issues (I wish it didn't need to be brought up), and while I don't agree with how people are choosing to make a stand, it is their right to do so. In my opinion, IF someone tried to remove a player for this it would start a big fuss because they were removed, and then you would have more people doing exactly what they were doing in support of the players being removed, and then it isn't even about the reason for it in the first place, thus causing even more of a distraction and removal of players. Think about this, players take up for their teammates all the time, whether it is on the field or off, so if a player is dismissed for an action they take, I would be willing to bet that people from that team and all over the country will do the same and could ruin teams all over the country just because people doesn't like the looks or stand that someone is taking. I will say it again, I DON'T AGREE WITH IT (how they are choosing to do so, not the issue), but how can we tell someone what issue they should believe in?
I feel like this a slippery slope, and just to play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion (not that I am in agreement one way or the other with this):
I've known some coaches over the years that have made their players wear matching cleats, no visors allowed on helmets, mouthpieces/undershirts/socks can only be the team's primary color, hair has to be cut short as to not be below the eye brows/ears, everyone has to stand in a line on the out of bounds line at the start of the game, etc. (you get what I'm saying); so if a coach has a rule that one must stand for the playing of the national anthem to be on and play for his team, how can this rule be protected by the 1st amendment but the others can't? If a player decides that he or she doesn't have to go to practice or have to run sprints at the end, they are free to do so, but the coach has the power to determine the consequences of that player's playing time or status on the team so how can this be punished differently?
Again, this doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion on whether I think folks should or shouldn't stand for the anthem, just for the sake of discussion, and a different twist on the topic.
I've known some coaches over the years that have made their players wear matching cleats, no visors allowed on helmets, mouthpieces/undershirts/socks can only be the team's primary color, hair has to be cut short as to not be below the eye brows/ears, everyone has to stand in a line on the out of bounds line at the start of the game, etc. (you get what I'm saying); so if a coach has a rule that one must stand for the playing of the national anthem to be on and play for his team, how can this rule be protected by the 1st amendment but the others can't? If a player decides that he or she doesn't have to go to practice or have to run sprints at the end, they are free to do so, but the coach has the power to determine the consequences of that player's playing time or status on the team so how can this be punished differently?
Again, this doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion on whether I think folks should or shouldn't stand for the anthem, just for the sake of discussion, and a different twist on the topic.
I agree that they should take their protest somewhere besides taking a knee during the national anthem. It is disrespectful to our flag, country and the many men/women that have given their lives for our great country. It's also disrespectful to the men/women that are currently or have formerly served our country. I give HR a hard time on here because it's all in fun but I respect and appreciate the many years he served our country and have nothing but respect for people like him. I believe what they are doing is disgusting and the teenagers need to be taught better. 1st from their parents and 2nd from their coaches. I guarantee the coaches I played for would not allow a few players to protest while the others stood in respect. Foolish stunts like this only split our country, it does nothing to make it better.
So? Kids today are seeing that actions don't have consequences. It's just a game. They need to learn life skills, not be coddled.
I think you may be missing the point. Like what Keith said, there are other rules that teams have and have consequences, but there wouldn't be outcry for it. I don't agree with what is going on, but how can anyone chose what things are ok to avoid doing and what isn't? Who is making that call? And what happens when some schools do it and some don't? Ill give you a much less serious example that I thought about. Some teams wear pink because of breast cancer at some point, while I don't think anyone is FOR cancer, some kids wouldn't want to wear pink. Should they be kicked off the team because they don't like pink?
Anyone refusing to stand for national anthem should be banned from playing again. Football games are no place for "social issues".
I think the National Anthem is something that should be respected. If the team is going to wear pink to support Breast Cancer awareness, and some kid doesn't want to wear pink, he's not being part of the team, so he shouldn't be on the team. Individuality has NO PLACE on a TEAM.
Kids have learned that actions don't have consequences for at least 20 years now. Just the facts. Remember the kid in Texas that got away with murder because he was too rich to know better??
The issue here isn't about actions or consequences. It isn't about right or wrong. It isn't about morals or ethics. It isn't about legality.
It is about social norms. We, and I include myself in that, may not approve of these protests. Doesn't matter. I don't approve of high school kids getting drunk after games either. And that actually is illegal. Oh well.
This is what it boils down to....these kids have the RIGHT to do this. The school DOES NOT have the right to punish them. There are no laws, policies, or any other statutes that says the kids CAN'T do this. Therefore they can.
Schools are powerless to do anything these days. That's why teachers and other school officials don't stay in the system as long as they did in the past.
I don't agree. I don't support it, but I also realize there's a whole lot of "jack squat" that can be done about it.
A team is just that....a team. You want to be an individual play golf.
You guys seem to not be getting my point. I AM AGAINST IT, but I don't want to see this taken any further because of the actions of a few. It would be a snowball effect. And you can't tell me Clarke that a person should be kicked off a team because he doesn't want to wear pink. I'll say it like this, I had a goddaughter who died of a really rare disease a few years ago. When I was coaching should I have been able to tell everyone on the team that they had to wear something for her and if they didnt kick them off the team? That doesn't seem right to me, even though I certainly believe in what it would stand for
What if a player wants to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights and bring his gun to the game. I don't buy first amendment rights on football field
I remember a Gretna Coach exercising his first amendment rights during a game a few years back when talking to the Ref. He got ejected and had to sit out next game.
I remember a Gretna Coach exercising his first amendment rights during a game a few years back when talking to the Ref. He got ejected and had to sit out next game.
I don't think that belongs in sports, either one. But the point is that 1st would be used if a lawsuit would to be brought. I stand for the anthem and honor all the soldiers past present and future just like I believe everyone should
That's fine. The comments were suggesting that a coach needs to cut those players or take other actions against them. I was simply telling you what has been told to coaches.
I get your point, you're missing mine I think. Coach needs to tell the kids that they do things as a team. If the team is going to do something, whether it be disrespecting the National Anthem, wearing pink for breast cancer awareness, or whatever, then it needs to be done as a team. Not as an individual. Out on that field, they are representatives of the team and the school. They are NOT individuals.
I agree with you, I'm just saying it would be hard to remove someone without bad things following
That's ridiculous. That flag stands for FREEDOM. The freedom to protest injustice. With all the mess with police brutality ongoing, I have no issues with kids trying to bring more attention to a very serious issue.
Veterans should be proud the freedoms they fought for are being used the right wayh.
You can't bring a firearm on school property or during a school event, that's just common sense. Your use of strawman arguments is hilarious.
I have yet to talk to a veteran that agrees with this stupid way of protesting. Certainly your right to agree even if you are wrong.
Being a veteran, disrespecting what people fought and died for is about as low as you can go. The national anthem is sacred and should always be respected. There are plenty of ways to protest and bring awareness to whatever cause that either bothers you or circumstances that have affected a person's life. We all know that our country is not perfect and it never will be. At the same time, this is the best country in the world and I am willing to fight and die for my country. The military instills what the flag and the national anthem means and we were taught the proper ways to honor and respect them. If any personnel does not show proper respect, severe punishment is very likely. If this country is so bad, go live in another country like I did for a couple of years while serving and you would be really happy to come home. The freedom to protest is important but it should not be used against the symbols that people fight and die for. Just my two cents and if anyone disagrees, your entitled to your opinion. This is mine.....
I was hoping at some point we would go back to talking about the football game. If we want to talk about the national anthem we could make a thread for that.
My brother is a veteran (USAF} and he supports Kaps right to protest, he has non issues w it.
Im a vet (6 yrs Army) and I got an issue with Kaps fiasco. I agree with G-Dog2.
I do know many vets i served with that agrees with him though.
Glad to hear you don't like it.....appreciate your years of service!!!
And I never talked to yours. Your point?
Mine was that I come from a military family, (brother, both granddad's, numerous uncles all served) and they all believe that they fought for freedom, the freedom to protedt when someone sees msomething seriously wrong. A lotmof vets agree, did you miss the #vetsforKaep movement?
Ok dude...we can agree to disagree. I will show nothing but respect for my flag and country by standing at attention and you take a knee. Do you really believe this type of protest has made a difference? Just seems to be dividing the country to me.....
Yes, I do because look how many people are talkijg about this issue now. I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to stand, my point is freedom is being able to protest.
As is said it's only splitting the country.....period. I haven't given a second thought to their cause only to the fact they are disrespecting our Country and Flag.
I am sure the rest of the kids on the team would punish the piece of crap till he took his lousy liberal a$$ off the team . Then take him to the wood shed after school and beat some since into him . If anyone disagrees I am sorry , not really !
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