Maybe the folks who are losing concessions revenue at WestPo can file an emergency injunction!
Hayfield
- Thread starter OCBoy
- Start date
After the game tonight I’m going to talk to Coach Mills an see if we can swindle 31 transfers as well lol 😂 jk jk but man that’s crazy
My response is I am surprised. I can't really say anything pro or con about the judge's decision until I find out more about what was presented and how he explained his ruling. I stand behind EVERYTHING I have said in this thread as supported by facts and historical precedent. Depending on what else happens after this it could be good or bad for high school sports and we shall see what transpires. Finally, I feel bad for the kids on all sides of this who were the casualties of adults improper actions and refusal to address things in a timely manner. This is a mess that could and should have been addressed long before getting to the doorstep of the playoffs.
InsideNoVA.com
DEVELOPING: Hayfield Secondary School has received a temporary injunction that will allow them to play in the football postseason.
www.facebook.com
OK, so it looks like the new schedule is out for 6C. First round to be played Thursday 11/21 and second round Tuesday 11/26 with finals likely happening on the 30th. “Whoever” (Hayfield) comes out of C will be at a disadvantage having played 3 games in the 2 weeks prior to the state semis
Crazy they’re allowed to play. The argument that it’s not fair to Hayfield kids is wrong. It’s not fair to the other teams who didn’t cheat.
While that may have been Hayfield's initial argument, the accounts from the hearing say the judge came prepared knowing the pleadings, facts and rules and the VHSL got hung out to dry because they did not follow their own rules. That is on the VHSL and their lawyers, regardless of whether Hayfield/FCPS broke rules on their own part. What's not fair is adults not doing the jobs they are paid to do and the kids suffering the consequences and that is on BOTH sides.
Agree with everything until the end. Not feeling sorry for known cheaters. You are spot on that the VHSL needs to enforce the rules. The same thing that was happening at Freedom followed to Hayfield. FCPS should be ashamed for allowing it go on.
I can't disagree with anything that has been said, but after 35 years of working in the judicial system I have to respect the judges order. Right or wrong he/she ruled on the facts. It does set a strange precedent and membership schools should be concerned about the poor effort displayed by the VHSL representation. I for one believe it's time to send the VHSL brass packing. They no longer have credibility, sound leadership, nor can they be trusted to mandate fair play.
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And let's not forget that Thursday the 28th is a no-school holiday.
How many hours are they allowed to practice that Friday?
they’ll have a normal practice thanksgiving day and Black Friday. Phoebus does it every year. Even has a thanksgiving team dinner
From reading an article I saw yesterday (I cannot recall where because there were several, and assuming I did not misinterpret what I read) it appears the judge made his ruling based on a technicality and not the true merits of the case. It did not help that the judge was said to be much better prepared than either of the lawyers representing both sides. The issue was that the recommendation to remove Hayfield from the playoffs was from VHSL's Hahn, not a VHSL committee of some type in accordance with the VHSL by laws. Very unfortunate, but that is the way our legal system works.
@falcettik ...so if Haun had provided examples of potential sanctions for consideration by the committee(s) -- OK, but staff cannot be the recommending body of the organization for a specific sanction. Not too dissimilar from Planning & Zoning Department staff and a Planning Commission in Virginia (something I actually know something about).
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That was the report in the comments section of the Fairfax Times story I believe. While not specifically addressing the alleged violations I think the judge did his job properly on all the merits of the situation because rules/bylaws/process are established for protection of ALL parties.
Hayfield's/FCPS' alleged wrong doings were not specifically condoned meaning the rules/findings themselves still stand but, the reality, at least in my opinion, is that the judge's ruling actually showed what a sorry job BOTH sides did. Haun and the VHSL deserve the bashing they will likely receive, in my opinion, because the timing and their failure to handle the situation damaged additional parties besides FCPS and Hayfield. This does not excuse Hayfield/FCPS as none of this happens if the violations question never arose.
Agreed; who wants to bet their motion is filled with LCA being a charter member and how they violate the VHSL rules? I have said this since day one: a first-year Lawyer can win this case and, if not, at least muddy it up with injunctions to hold the VHSL accountable.
When the LCA ruling came out everyone knew something would be brewing in the future that could muddy the situation even deeper for the entire state. Moving forward this makes it seem like it’s okay with what John Marshall and others have been doing.
What LCA ruling are you referring to or is this just a reference to the settlement of the lawsuit?
Allowing them to play in the VHSL as a school that has no true boundaries for residency
I think we have discussed this before but, the settlement that admitted LCA was the result of the recognition that they had neither the resources or the argument to ultimately prevail in litigation and they opted to settle in order to hopefully get an outcome beneficial to the entire VHSL membership rather than accept the risk of litigation with an outcome they might have no input in.
They negotiated attendance multipliers and zoning rules that lessened the potential impact on area schools. The fact that, to this point, no additional private schools have joined and that LCA has not been as competitively dominant as many predicted would seem to indicate they negotiated a reasonable settlement.
What do you know about the actual boundaries and residence requirements LCA agreed to abide by? Do you believe they should have taken the chance and risked litigation? How do you believe the LCA situation pertains to the current Hayfield situation?
Something tells me that the VHSL has never really had competent legal representation who has reviewed their by-laws.
An analogy.
Once there was a scorpion that could not swim that wanted to get across a river. The scorpion asked the turtle to give him a ride across the river. The turtle said no, you will sting me and we will both die. The scorpion pled and pled and convinced the turtle that his motives were pure and that he could be trusted.
So, the turtle finally agreed, and with the scorpion on his back, began to swim across the river. Half way across the river the scorpion stung the turtle, which began to die. As they both began to sink, and drown, the turtle asked the scorpion why he did this? The scorpion’s answer was simple, because I’m a scorpion.
Fairfax County Public Schools have allowed this entire affair to occur. Now with the latest court ruling, they have effectively gutted the rule book on Virginia High School Athletics. There will soon be no VHSL. There will be no need for the VHSL. If they are powerless to enforce rules, there is no need for their existence. And their collapse will effectively result in anarchy.
Coalitions will likely form that will have virtually no rules or authority. Play wherever you want will be the rule. There will be no way for smaller localities with single high schools to compete. What kid will want to go anywhere other that a few magnet schools building super teams? Everyone already sees what happens when a blind eye is turned to kids transferring to a school assembling a power house team.
And remember, this isn’t the case for just football. Think about what John Marshall has been permitted to do in basketball. Now realize that this is an example of what will happen, not may happen, but WILL happen in all sports. Baseball, soccer, golf, you name it. You can tell your little Johnny or little Mary that you are truly sorry that honest and fair athletic opportunities were taken away from them.
And don’t you dare blame the kids at Hayfield. There is not a single kid that plays for Hayfield that is not on that team without the the explicit knowledge of multiple adults. Parents, guardians, coaches, the school AD and Principal, the school Superintendant, even the school board, all have their fingerprints on the knife that is the proverbial dagger to the heart of high school athletics in Virginia.
Way to go scorpions. Great job.
Once there was a scorpion that could not swim that wanted to get across a river. The scorpion asked the turtle to give him a ride across the river. The turtle said no, you will sting me and we will both die. The scorpion pled and pled and convinced the turtle that his motives were pure and that he could be trusted.
So, the turtle finally agreed, and with the scorpion on his back, began to swim across the river. Half way across the river the scorpion stung the turtle, which began to die. As they both began to sink, and drown, the turtle asked the scorpion why he did this? The scorpion’s answer was simple, because I’m a scorpion.
Fairfax County Public Schools have allowed this entire affair to occur. Now with the latest court ruling, they have effectively gutted the rule book on Virginia High School Athletics. There will soon be no VHSL. There will be no need for the VHSL. If they are powerless to enforce rules, there is no need for their existence. And their collapse will effectively result in anarchy.
Coalitions will likely form that will have virtually no rules or authority. Play wherever you want will be the rule. There will be no way for smaller localities with single high schools to compete. What kid will want to go anywhere other that a few magnet schools building super teams? Everyone already sees what happens when a blind eye is turned to kids transferring to a school assembling a power house team.
And remember, this isn’t the case for just football. Think about what John Marshall has been permitted to do in basketball. Now realize that this is an example of what will happen, not may happen, but WILL happen in all sports. Baseball, soccer, golf, you name it. You can tell your little Johnny or little Mary that you are truly sorry that honest and fair athletic opportunities were taken away from them.
And don’t you dare blame the kids at Hayfield. There is not a single kid that plays for Hayfield that is not on that team without the the explicit knowledge of multiple adults. Parents, guardians, coaches, the school AD and Principal, the school Superintendant, even the school board, all have their fingerprints on the knife that is the proverbial dagger to the heart of high school athletics in Virginia.
Way to go scorpions. Great job.
Kids do what they are told to do and allowed to do. Entirely on the adults in the school system and the parents.
I think you read way too much into the result. The ruling did not gut the rulebook yet but, it did gut the shoddy practice and half ass work of the VHSL and their lawyers. They ignored and/or did not know their own bylaws. That is unconscionable as an executive and doubly unconscionable that their paid legal representation was not thorough. Neither the VHSL attorney or the FCPS attorney did their job, however, the judge did his. The adults on BOTH sides in this situation behaved and performed miserably and the buck stops with Haun as the VHSL Exec. Haun may be a nice guy but, he should have done his job. He failed, at least IMO.
What do you mean it will start in other sports heck it's been happening in sports all over throughout the state. But people unfortunately get in a uproar when it comes to the sports that mainly well I'll say the black kids play. But there a certain program in Chesapeake in wrestling that's been doing this since the 90s and probably really look at any school that's been a long term powers in these non revenue sports and I bet ya there been recruiting or whatever happening.
LCA does have boundaries for residency. They split a residency zone with Heritage.
BINGO! Why are adults always failing kids?! Then, we are wondering why kids have no respect for authority and can't handle any adversity. Obviously my statement isn't meant to include everyone.
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Thank you. Let me say upfront that my preference of private competing against public is that they not combine. This is for a variety of reasons tied to resources, rules and the nature of operations. However, that being said, the ruling AND settlement that allowed LCA to join the VHSL was intended, in my opinion, as a compromise solution to a situation that if allowed to grow would have only gotten messier, more expensive and likely even more untenable in the future. A lot of allegations are thrown around on these boards regarding recruiting, attendance zones, etc. and people should be careful when they read these allegations to ask the question what do they KNOW and can prove versus what they have heard but, not necessarily verified. Known and provable are the genesis of a formal complaint as opposed to unverified beliefs which are the genesis of rumors and misconceptions.
Transfer Portal coming to Virginia High Schools soon!
I'm glad that somebody pointed this out....wrestling and baseball have been facing this issue for YEARS...in the 757 especially. I can't speak on behalf of the rest of the state. But there's a distinct reason why some programs are at the top EVERY SINGLE YEAR. It's not as "noticed" because there are only a couple of transfers each year. Unlike this situation where it's being made to look like a large number transferred. That puts a bit more of a glare on the program. Regardless, sports with smaller numbers and fewer spectators have been doing it for years.
"SOON"....was Friday....phone calls started Friday afternoon as soon as some coaches realized the VHSL is now powerless.
I think everybody would be well served to take a breath and think before reacting on anything. They need to make sure they truly understand the actual ruling AND, whatever their response, the potential ramifications. In terms of development, high school is not only about athletics even though that is the focus of this site.
Well said! All too often these conversations involve rumors, misconceptions and unverified beliefs. I too prefer that private and public schools not be in the same league, but I prefer more for the truth be told; regardless of who it benefits.
