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If You Think the Football Seedings are Wild, Check Out Volleyball!

longtimerhsfan

VaPreps All Region
Dec 12, 2006
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I learned something Friday night and verified it on the VHSL website that blows my mind. (No point in reading further unless you are in interested in girls volleyball and/or are a person who appreciates common sense and logic.)

There are four conferences in the 1-A East Region (Conferences 41, 42, 43, and 44) and they each had their conference tournaments last week. In Conference 44, the only one I care about, Riverheads traveled to Altavista and beat the Lady Colonels three games to one to capture the Conference title.

The next step is an eight-team playoff for the Region 1-A East title, which begins Tuesday. The four Conference champs and their four runners-up will participate, with higher seeds hosting the four quarter-final games. Higher seeds will then host each succeeding game until a regional champion is crowned on Saturday night. So far so good right? Sounds just like any other tournament right?

But get this......the teams were re-seeded for these regional playoffs and somehow Altavista, even though it lost its conference final, has been seeded number two out of these eight teams. Riverheads is seeded number three. This makes NO SENSE on so many levels!

The four conference champs should be seeded in the one to four spots, using whatever criteria that might apply, and then the four runners-up should be seeded five through eight and have to travel on Tuesday. Naturally I am personally annoyed at this because it means that a Riverheads win on Tuesday, if they get it, will result in yet another trip to Altavista, assuming they also win their quarter-final game.

Even stranger is the fact that if Altavista has been given the number two seed, then that mathematically means that somebody (and I haven't even checked to see who it may be) actually WON their conference championship but has been "rewarded" for it by having to travel for a first round game on Tuesday, while a conference runner-up gets a home game. If I were that conference champion, I would really be ticked off by that.

These seedings could not be based on overall records, because Riverheads is 21-1 with its first loss being a long time ago, and Altavista is 17-3. So I have no idea how Altavista got such a plum spot.

I have discussed this with our AD, whom I respect greatly, so I understand he is powerless, but somebody somewhere dropped the ball if the system for this re-seeding is that wacky. Like I said, it bugs me personally because of how it will impact my school, but at the same time, it completely insults my common sense. Anybody else find this strange?
 
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That happened to us in Soccer last season. PM won their conference, but then had to travel to W&L for the first round game. Stuff makes no sense to me. Why have conference tourney's if there are no rewards for winning it.
 
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I am only the messenger here, but the region seeds the teams based on their regular season rating only. Rappahannock County lost to Nothumberland in their conference final but are the region's top seed based on its regular season rating. In another insane situation, those two teams will meet in the first round of the regionals. Same thing happened in softball last spring when Rappahannock and Essex played in their conference final and then met again in the opening round of regionals.
 
And I now also see that Mathews will play at Cumberland in the first round. Mathews beat Cumberland in the final of their conference tournament.
 
I understand crossbracketing and seeding based on regular season records. It can be confusing and even seem unfair based on what happens in the playoffs. Where I'm getting lost in this particular situation is why teams from the same conference are playing again in the first round of regionals (Mathews/Cumberland). That defeats the purpose of crossbracketing.

The Riverheads Altavista situation that started the thread looks unfair but does make sense. Altavista, with a worse record, but "tougher" regular season schedule gives them a higher seed, throughout the playoffs.
 
There should be some bonus points for conference tournaments but those games mean nothing except determine who goes to the region playoffs. Regions determine how they seed the playoffs, hopefully they will make some changes as the conference system will come to an end after next year.
 
Just another example of how VHSL is poorly run. No region should be able to devise their own format. VHSL HQ should design one format for each region to go by. If a region tries to modify it, that region is in eligible for state tournament. It is dumb to do things differently through out the state. It is Virginia High School League. Not region whatever or conference 88 high school league. Be uniform statewide.
 
But uniform doesn't work statewide - see Richmond area football, where a road trip of over 30 miles is reason for an uprising or mutiny.
You seem to forget that the VHSL IS the schools, and THEY know this already. They said long ago that the "state" takes control after the Regionals are done.
I have no prob. with a r-up being a #2 overall based on their performance. And sometimes a reg. season champ will work on things in the tourney, or just not really care all that much, knowing they're already hosting, so "reversed rematches" might happen.
 
Remember the good old days when you had District Tournaments and then the Regionals were set by seeding with the tournaments outcome counting before the regular season? Some how the VH$L has forgotten how to use common sense!
 
Remember the good old days when you had District Tournaments and then the Regionals were set by seeding with the tournaments outcome counting before the regular season? Some how the VH$L has forgotten how to use common sense!

It's not the vhsl, good lord. The vhsl cannot and does not have the power, the body does. They can't mandate something that they don't have the power to do. Regions will not give up their power. If you're looking for someone to blame, then blame the right people. The vhsl says, give me a select number of teams and you figure out how your region determines their representatives. They don't know what's best for each region because the geography is so different. Western part of the state might be 10 miles apart from schools but an hour drive. Do you expect the vhsl to pick up the regional tab if a region loses $$$ b/c of a vhsl mandate? Not going to happen.
 
If I am understanding NNDman, there are two other re-matches of Conference title games scheduled for the first round of the regional playoffs. Well if there are two, in addition to the one I was griping about, then doesn't that have to mean that ALL FOUR quarter-final games Tuesday are simply going to be re-matches of the four Conference championship games? If so, then the situation is stranger than I thought it was. SCRATCH THIS COMMENT. I HAD A BALD MOMENT. I SEE NOW THAT ONLY TWO ARE RE-MATCHES. MY BAD.
 
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Like I said, VHSL is poorly run, and regions/conferences are run worse. There's one state championship trophy. Everyone should travel same road to get it.
 
It's not the vhsl, good lord. The vhsl cannot and does not have the power, the body does. They can't mandate something that they don't have the power to do. Regions will not give up their power. If you're looking for someone to blame, then blame the right people. The vhsl says, give me a select number of teams and you figure out how your region determines their representatives. They don't know what's best for each region because the geography is so different. Western part of the state might be 10 miles apart from schools but an hour drive. Do you expect the vhsl to pick up the regional tab if a region loses $$$ b/c of a vhsl mandate? Not going to happen.
It is the VH$L!! They were the ones that set up the committees to do these conferences and sectionals. Yes the AD's set up the number of teams in playoffs and such but I am looking back to the start of all of this nonsense and it WAS the VH$L!!
 
Congrats to Northumberland on the huge victory over Rapp County! Sounds like it was for a trophy only but still, a great victory. I believe that (but not sure) Rapp Co was undefeated (and they play in the Bull Run -all 2A, 3A, 4A schools). I think that Northumberland is now like 17-3 (only losses to Rapp Co and Mathews).

I looked quickly at the VHSL site and did not see seeds and the records. Could someone please copy link or post teams and their records in a 1-8 format? Thanks
 
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It is the VH$L!! They were the ones that set up the committees to do these conferences and sectionals. Yes the AD's set up the number of teams in playoffs and such but I am looking back to the start of all of this nonsense and it WAS the VH$L!!

Wrong again. The schools asked for changes and the VHSL allowed them to come up with a plan. The biggest push for change came from the old single A level. The schools voted on and approved those changes. You really don't know how the system works.
 
Thanks NND man.

This seeding looks quite strange to me. It appears that some teams that have won head to head or may have better records are lower seeds. Some districts are stronger than others but are not treated as such. How is Northumberland 8th seed? How is Mathews seeded so low?

We need to go back to the way it was when we had 4 districts. Now just take the top 2 teams from each conference, play another top 2 from another conference with a bracket that is predetermined and published. Which conference you play will rotate each year so it is fair. Begin again every 4th year. Easy, fair, makes sense. No politics.
 
Some ADs are smarter than others, thus they can twist the lax rules of VHSL to aid their own team. I have seen it done more than once.
 
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