Lee's move from Valley a sad statement (Staunton News Leader)

[pizzzzza]

By Patrick Hite
(I totally agree with his sentiments)

Dennis Dull stepped down as Robert E. Lee's girls basketball coach in April 2015 mainly because of health issues. But when I talked to him at the time, he gave me a surprising secondary reason for his decision. He said Lee High just couldn't compete with many of the other schools in the Valley District and the school's inability to move to the Shenandoah District was partly responsible for his decision to retire.

"It's not fair to the kids," he said.

That statement, coming from an old-school coach like Dull, shocked me. And I wondered, WWPHT?

(If you're wondering, that's shorthand for "What would Paul Hatcher think?" and it's a good motto to live by.)

So I asked the former Lee High boys coach, winner of 897 games and four state championships before he retired in 2011.

"I think everybody is so hung up over enrollment," Hatcher said last week. "Enrollment to me never was a factor. I was just worried about the five I had on the floor."

Enrollment is an issue for many, including the Virginia High School League, which a few years ago moved to a six-classification system in an attempt to make the classes more equitable when it came to school size. It's also why Lee High's administration has been pushing to move into the Shenandoah District, joining other schools in the 2A classification instead of the bigger schools in the Valley District.

By noon this coming Thursday, Aug. 4, that push will finally be rewarded. The Shenandoah District, after years of denying Lee, approved the move earlier this year. Now the VHSL will vote on it at 11:50 a.m. Thursday and, from all indications, the governing body will approve the move. If the move is given the green light, the change will take place with the start of the 2017-18 school year.

"I hate to see it happen," Hatcher said.

Me too.

With the exception of a few years in the early 1970s when Lee High played in Group AAA, the school has been associated with the Valley District since 1960. A few years back the Valley did split in two and Lee played in what was technically called the Southern Valley, but Hatcher said he still always called it the Valley District.

Now that long association appears to be finished. And with it rivalries with many schools. I'm sure Lee will try to continue non-district series with some Valley District schools, but with a nine-member Shenandoah District it won't be possible in all sports. Waynesboro athletic director Derek McDaniel told The News Leader's Ken Bosserman recently that his school probably won't play Lee in football in 2017. McDaniel told me some matchups between Waynesboro and Lee in spring sports, including tennis and soccer, may also be in danger.

"With time comes change, something that is hard for the old folks like myself," said McDaniel. "The move is best for Lee High as a school and I'm sure we will continue to try to play them in as many athletic events as possible."

I grew up watching classic Lee basketball games against Harrisonburg, Spotswood, Turner Ashby and Waynesboro. It's hard to imagine those twice-a-year battles disappearing. And if the Valley District reinstates its postseason basketball tournament, staging it without Lee High just seems wrong.

"You hate to lose that," Hatcher said of the rivalries. "We've had some great games."

Hatcher is right that it's not about enrollment, but the program. Size doesn't, or at least shouldn't, matter in this case. Build a quality program and you can play with anyone.

"It never entered our mind," Hatcher said of the opponent's enrollment. "Whoever was on the schedule was our next game. You prepare for them and you go play."

In Hatcher's final season, 2010-11, his Leemen finished the regular season undefeated even though Lee was the smallest school in the Valley District.

"According to all these people we shouldn't have won a game," he said.

Forty years before, when Lee was moved to Group AAA for the 1970-71 season, former Leemen star Mark Newlen said very few people thought his team had a chance against the much bigger Roanoke-area schools that were in Lee's district. Lee proved the naysayers wrong, reaching the Group AAA state championship game where it lost to Maggie Walker.

The players on that Group AAA state finalist team will tell you how special the memory of that season is to this day. Part of the reason is the quality of competition Lee played night in and night out, more often than not coming out on top.

Now, that apparently doesn't matter. Teaching kids to overcome obstacles takes a back seat to winning games and making sure everything is fair.

Hatcher's philosophy was always to play up in competition level, not down, an apparent foreign concept to some of today's coaches and athletic directors.

Coach Paul Hatcher poses with the 1970 seniors from his Lee High School basketball team
(Photo: The Staunton News Leader)

 

[??Really??]

Yes pizzzzza I agree it is a sad day.

I love how Hatcher looks to be the champion of playing up all the time. Dont forget he scheduled games with VSDB to fill out his season to bolster playoff position.

On another note ... Is the younger Hatcher on the coaching hot seat. With this move the perception should be for them to dominate the Shenandoah.

 

[Mayberryite]

I know of a 2A program that plays in a district with three 3A teams, two 4A teams, one 5A team and even one 6A team. This 2A team is by far the smallest enrollment in their district. This team also just cut the nets down in Richmond for the second year in a row.

 

[leemen]

I think if you look back over Paul Hatcher's coaching career...you will see that Lee played plenty of tough competition. Lee will be nasty this season...and will look like Lee basketball should. Of course even in the last few years...they've had season's that a lot of teams would love to have. When you're a great program you get held to higher standards. Lee's schedule over the past few years has been difficult. It certainly hasn't been cupcake city.

 

[Valley Man]

You are right Leemen. Lee has played some good teams lately including Bruton at Spotswood during the regular season 2 years ago. They did play VSDB twice in one season during the elder Hatcher's reign and both at Lee

They should be solid this year. No excuses for sure.

 

[leemen]

Valley Man...I defend Lee on every front. The VSDB games that were played...I can't defend those. All I can figure is that Lee needed to fill out their schedule that year. I am sure they're was other options out there even a Christian school or private school. I guess it was a neat experience for the kids at VSDB though. I still can't defend that choice of games though.

This should be a final four team this season at Lee. George is the real deal and easily the best player to play at Lee since anyone on the streak teams. I expect really good things from the Leemen this season.

 

[Valley Man]

East Rock will be solid as well as Madison County. Those 3 need to stay out of each other's bracket come region play so they don't see each other early.

 

[gtownfencecrew]

Why doesn't George use his height advantage more inside? I've seen him a couple times over the last few years and he starts well inside and then gradually moves out and starts shooting long range.....and when he's hitting, all is good....but when he's not, he doesn't move back down to try and dominate. When you're 6'7 or better going up against 6'1-6'3, you have to use that advantage. Good luck to the Leemen. Basketball will be here before we know it.

 

[leemen]

George reminds me of a Kevin Durant type player. What I mean is he plays outside in. He can get to the basket anytime he wants and is very explosive. He has a good outside game too. When he is hitting from the outside that opens the lane up and he is nearly impossible to stop. I look for him to take his game to an even higher level this season.

Valley Man...who all is East Rock expected to have back? They are really becoming a consistent program over the last couple of years. Madison is going to be very good too. I don't know who all George Mason has coming back or Central(Woodstock). In the Shenandoah I figure East Rock, Page, Luray and maybe Draft will be the teams battling for the top in that district.

In the Valley...I am not sure what to expect. Spotswood has some questions for the first time in a while but...I expect Edwards to have them really good again. Waynesboro has Diggs taking over for Dewitt as head coach. Fort Defiance has a new coach too. Do you know how things are looking for the Rockingham teams...Harrisonburg included?

 

[Valley Man]

East Rock returns Rogers and host of athletic players including McNair and other one that slips my mind. Look for them to win league IMO. X factor for Lee is the other 6'7" kid Haliburton? Draft could be solid if they are not running the Grinnell which I heard they had experimented with not using it. Central will be down. Not sure about Mason

Spotswood got Sullivan kid from TA in a shady situation so he will help with Dofflemyer and Irvine .. so they are top dog til knocked out. Harrisonburg may have the most talented group if Don Don can get them to gel and do what he wants. Broadway and TA will be low.

 

[DC2VA]

East Rock returns 4 out of 5 starters. Rogers, McNair, Butler and Comer.

 

[??Really??]

George played too much AAme ball. Running all kinds of crap up and down the floor. He didn't dominate the championship game that gtown refers to because he was too busy shooting jumpers against the way smaller Panthers. If he would play to his size .. he will dominate. If not, Lee will be inconsistent and subject to the stinker game that they had some last year. 2A will be very competitive .. dont forget Bruton and Greensville reside in this region as well.

 

[DMSpartan]

Valley Man...I defend Lee on every front. The VSDB games that were played...I can't defend those. All I can figure is that Lee needed to fill out their schedule that year. I am sure they're was other options out there even a Christian school or private school. I guess it was a neat experience for the kids at VSDB though. I still can't defend that choice of games though.

This should be a final four team this season at Lee. George is the real deal and easily the best player to play at Lee since anyone on the streak teams. I expect really good things from the Leemen this season.

I too mentioned the fact that Lee played VSDB at least four times during their storied 88-game winning streak and was told that Hatcher had done it as a "favor" for the VSDB team. I also mentioned the fact that during that winning streak, Lee played the Miller School - enrollment at that time was 300 students - at least twice and was also told that, too, was a scheduling "favor". I replied that your teams need to play other teams that are able to actually defeat you - or your team gets into "bad habits" or starts to think that all the other teams they will be playing will be just like the "weak sisters" they have just played. Of course, Lee met up with the present state champions in the finals that year, and the state champions did stop the Leemen's winning streak.

And, again, leemen, it may be a bit premature to bet the bank on Lee being a final four team so early in the school year. Key people can get hurt before practice even begins, and I don't want to mention all the discipline problems that may occur. Best thing to say at this point would be nothing. And your new district IS going to be a lot more competitive - not much chance Hatcher, Jr. can recruit from Bruton and Greensville.

 

[w&l fan]

Who am I today? The Grand Wizard of Wrestling or Abdullah Farouk?

Heads I win! Tails I win too!

It's been a long time hasn't it boys?

 

[Valley Man]

W & L fan ... how in the world? I am so confused

 

[Keith_Stone33]

I too mentioned the fact that Lee played VSDB at least four times during their storied 88-game winning streak and was told that Hatcher had done it as a "favor" for the VSDB team. I also mentioned the fact that during that winning streak, Lee played the Miller School - enrollment at that time was 300 students - at least twice and was also told that, too, was a scheduling "favor". I replied that your teams need to play other teams that are able to actually defeat you - or your team gets into "bad habits" or starts to think that all the other teams they will be playing will be just like the "weak sisters" they have just played. Of course, Lee met up with the present state champions in the finals that year, and the state champions did stop the Leemen's winning streak.

And, again, leemen, it may be a bit premature to bet the bank on Lee being a final four team so early in the school year. Key people can get hurt before practice even begins, and I don't want to mention all the discipline problems that may occur. Best thing to say at this point would be nothing. And your new district IS going to be a lot more competitive - not much chance Hatcher, Jr. can recruit from Bruton and Greensville.

Lee is the only team I've ever watched that can win a game by 30 and I can still leave disappointed, because they did not play to the level that they should've. There's always so much potential on those teams, but for the past several years, they have not come close to reaching it. So I am not as quick to jump on the Lee Final Four bandwagon just yet.

 

[DMSpartan]

I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of high school coaches do not truly care about a player reaching his "potential" but instead playing up to the standard that will cause the team to win enough games for a coach to keep his position as "coach". I certainly believe that a coach should have definite goals for each player to achieve during the player's high school career - working on fundamentals; improving his physical ability; and even working on a player's "mind-set" about how to approach each and every game. I have had players coming to me and asking when do you know how and when to "turn it up" - to which I replied "Every time you step onto the court during a game". And a player's attitude towards practice is key - I have seen players on the same team "going at" each other in practice like it was the state finals. I have also seen practices where the regular starters were treated with so much deference by the other team members it made me wonder if the regular starters had paid them not to practice too hard and "show up" the starter's lack of effort. 100% ALL of the time - in practice or in the game. Or find another sport where 75% of your effort will do.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Lee is the only team I've ever watched that can win a game by 30 and I can still leave disappointed, because they did not play to the level that they should've. There's always so much potential on those teams, but for the past several years, they have not come close to reaching it. So I am not as quick to jump on the Lee Final Four bandwagon just yet.

Reminds me of a football coach I knew who once won a game 55-0. The way he sounded in interview with newspaper reporter after game, sounded as if he lost the game. Take the win and get ready for next game.

 

[DMSpartan]

And I have seen too many players who sincerely believe that they themselves don't need to be a better player. I have had 12-year-olds tell me that there is nothing more they need to learn about the game - to which I often reply - "Let me call the Laker's front office and tell them I have the "next" Kobe. And don't forget, kid, I get 15% of that contract you will be getting". And then there are those players who have one "key" move they believe they can use all the time and no one can stop it. And we all know what happens then.

 

[PaPaMoose]

By Patrick Hite
(I totally agree with his sentiments)

Dennis Dull stepped down as Robert E. Lee's girls basketball coach in April 2015 mainly because of health issues. But when I talked to him at the time, he gave me a surprising secondary reason for his decision. He said Lee High just couldn't compete with many of the other schools in the Valley District and the school's inability to move to the Shenandoah District was partly responsible for his decision to retire.

"It's not fair to the kids," he said.

That statement, coming from an old-school coach like Dull, shocked me. And I wondered, WWPHT?

(If you're wondering, that's shorthand for "What would Paul Hatcher think?" and it's a good motto to live by.)

So I asked the former Lee High boys coach, winner of 897 games and four state championships before he retired in 2011.

"I think everybody is so hung up over enrollment," Hatcher said last week. "Enrollment to me never was a factor. I was just worried about the five I had on the floor."

Enrollment is an issue for many, including the Virginia High School League, which a few years ago moved to a six-classification system in an attempt to make the classes more equitable when it came to school size. It's also why Lee High's administration has been pushing to move into the Shenandoah District, joining other schools in the 2A classification instead of the bigger schools in the Valley District.

By noon this coming Thursday, Aug. 4, that push will finally be rewarded. The Shenandoah District, after years of denying Lee, approved the move earlier this year. Now the VHSL will vote on it at 11:50 a.m. Thursday and, from all indications, the governing body will approve the move. If the move is given the green light, the change will take place with the start of the 2017-18 school year.

"I hate to see it happen," Hatcher said.

Me too.

With the exception of a few years in the early 1970s when Lee High played in Group AAA, the school has been associated with the Valley District since 1960. A few years back the Valley did split in two and Lee played in what was technically called the Southern Valley, but Hatcher said he still always called it the Valley District.

Now that long association appears to be finished. And with it rivalries with many schools. I'm sure Lee will try to continue non-district series with some Valley District schools, but with a nine-member Shenandoah District it won't be possible in all sports. Waynesboro athletic director Derek McDaniel told The News Leader's Ken Bosserman recently that his school probably won't play Lee in football in 2017. McDaniel told me some matchups between Waynesboro and Lee in spring sports, including tennis and soccer, may also be in danger.

"With time comes change, something that is hard for the old folks like myself," said McDaniel. "The move is best for Lee High as a school and I'm sure we will continue to try to play them in as many athletic events as possible."

I grew up watching classic Lee basketball games against Harrisonburg, Spotswood, Turner Ashby and Waynesboro. It's hard to imagine those twice-a-year battles disappearing. And if the Valley District reinstates its postseason basketball tournament, staging it without Lee High just seems wrong.

"You hate to lose that," Hatcher said of the rivalries. "We've had some great games."

Hatcher is right that it's not about enrollment, but the program. Size doesn't, or at least shouldn't, matter in this case. Build a quality program and you can play with anyone.

"It never entered our mind," Hatcher said of the opponent's enrollment. "Whoever was on the schedule was our next game. You prepare for them and you go play."

In Hatcher's final season, 2010-11, his Leemen finished the regular season undefeated even though Lee was the smallest school in the Valley District.

"According to all these people we shouldn't have won a game," he said.

Forty years before, when Lee was moved to Group AAA for the 1970-71 season, former Leemen star Mark Newlen said very few people thought his team had a chance against the much bigger Roanoke-area schools that were in Lee's district. Lee proved the naysayers wrong, reaching the Group AAA state championship game where it lost to Maggie Walker.

The players on that Group AAA state finalist team will tell you how special the memory of that season is to this day. Part of the reason is the quality of competition Lee played night in and night out, more often than not coming out on top.

Now, that apparently doesn't matter. Teaching kids to overcome obstacles takes a back seat to winning games and making sure everything is fair.

Hatcher's philosophy was always to play up in competition level, not down, an apparent foreign concept to some of today's coaches and athletic directors.

Coach Paul Hatcher poses with the 1970 seniors from his Lee High School basketball team
(Photo: The Staunton News Leader)

 

[PaPaMoose]

By Patrick Hite
(I totally agree with his sentiments)

Dennis Dull stepped down as Robert E. Lee's girls basketball coach in April 2015 mainly because of health issues. But when I talked to him at the time, he gave me a surprising secondary reason for his decision. He said Lee High just couldn't compete with many of the other schools in the Valley District and the school's inability to move to the Shenandoah District was partly responsible for his decision to retire.

"It's not fair to the kids," he said.

That statement, coming from an old-school coach like Dull, shocked me. And I wondered, WWPHT?

(If you're wondering, that's shorthand for "What would Paul Hatcher think?" and it's a good motto to live by.)

So I asked the former Lee High boys coach, winner of 897 games and four state championships before he retired in 2011.

"I think everybody is so hung up over enrollment," Hatcher said last week. "Enrollment to me never was a factor. I was just worried about the five I had on the floor."

Enrollment is an issue for many, including the Virginia High School League, which a few years ago moved to a six-classification system in an attempt to make the classes more equitable when it came to school size. It's also why Lee High's administration has been pushing to move into the Shenandoah District, joining other schools in the 2A classification instead of the bigger schools in the Valley District.

By noon this coming Thursday, Aug. 4, that push will finally be rewarded. The Shenandoah District, after years of denying Lee, approved the move earlier this year. Now the VHSL will vote on it at 11:50 a.m. Thursday and, from all indications, the governing body will approve the move. If the move is given the green light, the change will take place with the start of the 2017-18 school year.

"I hate to see it happen," Hatcher said.

Me too.

With the exception of a few years in the early 1970s when Lee High played in Group AAA, the school has been associated with the Valley District since 1960. A few years back the Valley did split in two and Lee played in what was technically called the Southern Valley, but Hatcher said he still always called it the Valley District.

Now that long association appears to be finished. And with it rivalries with many schools. I'm sure Lee will try to continue non-district series with some Valley District schools, but with a nine-member Shenandoah District it won't be possible in all sports. Waynesboro athletic director Derek McDaniel told The News Leader's Ken Bosserman recently that his school probably won't play Lee in football in 2017. McDaniel told me some matchups between Waynesboro and Lee in spring sports, including tennis and soccer, may also be in danger.

"With time comes change, something that is hard for the old folks like myself," said McDaniel. "The move is best for Lee High as a school and I'm sure we will continue to try to play them in as many athletic events as possible."

I grew up watching classic Lee basketball games against Harrisonburg, Spotswood, Turner Ashby and Waynesboro. It's hard to imagine those twice-a-year battles disappearing. And if the Valley District reinstates its postseason basketball tournament, staging it without Lee High just seems wrong.

"You hate to lose that," Hatcher said of the rivalries. "We've had some great games."

Hatcher is right that it's not about enrollment, but the program. Size doesn't, or at least shouldn't, matter in this case. Build a quality program and you can play with anyone.

"It never entered our mind," Hatcher said of the opponent's enrollment. "Whoever was on the schedule was our next game. You prepare for them and you go play."

In Hatcher's final season, 2010-11, his Leemen finished the regular season undefeated even though Lee was the smallest school in the Valley District.

"According to all these people we shouldn't have won a game," he said.

Forty years before, when Lee was moved to Group AAA for the 1970-71 season, former Leemen star Mark Newlen said very few people thought his team had a chance against the much bigger Roanoke-area schools that were in Lee's district. Lee proved the naysayers wrong, reaching the Group AAA state championship game where it lost to Maggie Walker.

The players on that Group AAA state finalist team will tell you how special the memory of that season is to this day. Part of the reason is the quality of competition Lee played night in and night out, more often than not coming out on top.

Now, that apparently doesn't matter. Teaching kids to overcome obstacles takes a back seat to winning games and making sure everything is fair.

Hatcher's philosophy was always to play up in competition level, not down, an apparent foreign concept to some of today's coaches and athletic directors.

Coach Paul Hatcher poses with the 1970 seniors from his Lee High School basketball team
(Photo: The Staunton News Leader)

 

[PaPaMoose]

In 1963 we had Lee, Waynesboro,.Harrisonburg,Parry McCluer ,Lexington,AlB. Co.and Natural Bridge in the Valley. Natural Bridge had about 300 students and the rest of the Valley had a lot more kids. We still played everyone and it was a good district. NB beat Lee that year in football 19-13.

 

[DMSpartan]

Let's crunch numbers here. As of 2014, enrollment at Martinsville was 626; enrollment at Tunstall was 937; Magna Vista 939; Patrick County 997 (they have "over 1,000" students enrolled this year); Bassett 1,171; GW-Danville was 1,428; and Halifax County was 1,716. As of this year, Franklin County has 2,160 students enrolled. (These figures are for grades 9 through 12.) All these numbers mean is that schools with higher enrollments have more "bodies" to choose from - it doesn't mean that the coaches or the players will automatically be better than those at your school. It also means that the opportunities for "inappropriate activity" on the part of administrations and athletic directors are also more available. (And why adults would teach young men and young women how to "cheat" is beyond me.)
But once the regular season is over for all sports, GW, Halifax, and Franklin County enter Triple-A playoffs while the rest of the Piedmont enters the AA playoffs.

 

[THEGOATFROMJMU]

This is really simple... in the past 10 years look at the AAU and feeder programs Broadway, East Rock, Spotswood, TA have compared to Lee and Staunton. It's like night & Day

 

[DMSpartan]

As far as AAU is concerned, it depends if the AAU team is entirely made up of the high school basketball team and not an "all-star" squad chosen from the surrounding counties. And it also depends on the coaching the players receive - if you have a "shoot 'em dead" coach who cares more about the overall score, the players on that team might be better off playing in somebody's driveway. If the players are receiving "quality" coaching where they incorporate fundamentals and an offensive "set" similar to what they'll play at their respective schools, then I'd say let 'em play AAU.

 

[prestonoid]

George played too much AAme ball. Running all kinds of crap up and down the floor. He didn't dominate the championship game that gtown refers to because he was too busy shooting jumpers against the way smaller Panthers. If he would play to his size .. he will dominate. If not, Lee will be inconsistent and subject to the stinker game that they had some last year. 2A will be very competitive .. dont forget Bruton and Greensville reside in this region as well.

bruton will not win more than 5 games this year and will not impact the postseason in anyway