New Virginia restriction : gatherings reduced 250 to 25

[Lafayette]

Effective 11/15 the reduced gatherings limit is effective. I have a feeling it will be in place for some time, probably until the vaccine is distributed widely in late Spring/early Summer. HS football is now very problematic and if held you will not be watching (maybe from beyond the fence). Should have played starting in August. He who hesitates is lost. So true.

Ps- all retail liquor sales also now end everywhere at 10 PM. Better order 3 or 4 at 9:55!!!!

 

[ClarkeFan83]

Effing stupid. 😠

 

[Lafayette]

VHSL has clarified the number restriction only applies to spectators not players. I guess we will all watch football from outside your respective stadium. A football stadium with 25 fans, hmmmmm. The restriction applies to inside and outside which appears overkill.

 

[Snookasuperstar]

Some schools are not going to be able to afford losing revenue with a gate of 25 people. 25 people will not cover expenses for sports to operate in ALL localities.

 

[Lafayette]

Of course down here Busch Gardens for Christmas City is now allowed 4,000 to enter. Now their outside but so are the football stands. 4,000 vs 25??? Something is wrong here. Anybody want to question why??

 

[ClarkeFan83]

Of course down here Busch Gardens for Christmas City is now allowed 4,000 to enter. Now their outside but so are the football stands. 4,000 vs 25??? Something is wrong here. Anybody want to question why??

Politics.

 

[1MoreHokie]

Outdated info on my part.

 

[1MoreHokie]

And the reason we're getting this current restriction is because if you haven't noticed, about 75-80% of the rest of the country are seeing record numbers. Virginia is not one of those states, we're actually doing relatively well all things considered but it's really easy for that to change and so Northam is being proactive here and trying to prevent a worse situation from happening because I can flat out guarantee you that we'll go right back to phase I or phase II if things nosedive but a little preemptive action and caution from Virginians can prevent that from happening as we ride out the winter.

 

[Lafayette]

The VHSL stated the 25 does not include players so their implying this limit will be for HS sports. Additionally, though I’ve read your attachment our paper here, the Daily Press in the Tidewater area believes this limit will apply to HS sports. Perhaps some one can get the VHSL to specifically state the 1,000 limit does apply to HS football fields and games. That is does HS football fields fit the definition of sports “venue”. Large stadiums do, does simple HS fields?

 

[Snookasuperstar]

You guys are misconstruing these things. The drop to 25 is for public gatherings (think like a party not a football game) and that's because people can't be trusted to actually have a scenario like a party and do the right things. VT and UVA can continue to have 1,000 people there, a racetrack can have 1,000 people, a business can have 25+ people if that's what is required, you can go to a church with 25+, and so on. This restriction is specifically about public gatherings.

I am begging you guys to actually research this stuff sometime before you get all in a huff over nothing.

Here is the amended EO 67 which details how phase III should be run. Skip down to page 11, change 250 into 25, and that's 90% of Northam's changes (the other 10% is stricter enforcement on businesses to adhere to EO 67 and cutting off booze sales a little earlier). Then when you're done reading page 11, read everything else and realize that none of it is being changed by Northam. For the love of God, please read this thing, it'll take you five minutes tops and you'll come out more knowledgeable on the subject.

https://www.governor.virginia.gov/media/governorvirginiagov/executive-actions/EO-67-FIFTH-AMENDED-and-Order-of-Public-Health-Emergency-Seven---Phase-Three-Further-Adjusting-of-Certain-Temporary-Restrictions-Due-to-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf

The problem is the governor comes out with his mandates for the state but he is very vague about what is being mandated...now I read what hokie sent out but this is what I found and believe that 25 does apply high school sports...https://www.governor.virginia.gov/executive-actions/

Make sure to read the new updated executive actions on November 13. The 13th section says recreation and sports does not exceed 30% or 25 people....so pretty sure this applies to vhsl.

 

[1MoreHokie]

The problem is the governor comes out with his mandates for the state but he is very vague about what is being mandated...now I read what hokie sent out but this is what I found and believe that 25 does apply high school sports...https://www.governor.virginia.gov/executive-actions/

Make sure to read the new updated executive actions on November 13. The 13th section says recreation and sports does not exceed 30% or 25 people....so pretty sure this applies to vhsl.

You know, fair play, I linked a slightly older EO document (from November 5th) so those changes weren't in there. Mea culpa on that one.

I would still say that this is nothing currently to worry about since the season is almost four months away and that might as well be four years in this pandemic. It'll be spring, people won't be confined indoors as much, I expect a much different situation. I think a large reason this is being done is because kids are about to finish school and its the holidays, when people tend to congregate together the most. This will probably carry on through Christmas but if Virginia keeps its numbers in check I don't think they'll carry it far into 2021 before easing back up. This is just about trying to prevent the third wave from hitting Virginia like it has many other places, if we can ride this wave out like previous ones then restrictions will undoubtedly be loosened like past times. Also, it's very likely that we have started vaccinating people by then which, depending on how far along we were, could give the potential for higher gathering numbers.

If we're sitting here in March and the season starts in a few days and we still can't have fans then I'd revisit this discussion but we are so far away from that point that it's like why bother getting mad or worried.

 

[WP02alum]

But I want more outrage fuel now! My brain doesn’t know what to think if I’m not actively outraged!

 

[Lafayette]

You know, fair play, I linked a slightly older EO document (from November 5th) so those changes weren't in there. Mea culpa on that one.

I would still say that this is nothing currently to worry about since the season is almost four months away and that might as well be four years in this pandemic. It'll be spring, people won't be confined indoors as much, I expect a much different situation. I think a large reason this is being done is because kids are about to finish school and its the holidays, when people tend to congregate together the most. This will probably carry on through Christmas but if Virginia keeps its numbers in check I don't think they'll carry it far into 2021 before easing back up. This is just about trying to prevent the third wave from hitting Virginia like it has many other places, if we can ride this wave out like previous ones then restrictions will undoubtedly be loosened like past times. Also, it's very likely that we have started vaccinating people by then which, depending on how far along we were, could give the potential for higher gathering numbers.

If we're sitting here in March and the season starts in a few days and we still can't have fans then I'd revisit this discussion but we are so far away from that point that it's like why bother getting mad or worried.

This Governor is very timid in opening things up. The vaccine to the general public may only start in April/June. IMO this regulation sticks until widespread vaccine is distributed AND the positive results recorded over a period of time. This will be far too late for the March - May season.

 

[1MoreHokie]

This Governor is very timid in opening things up. The vaccine to the general public may only start in April/June. IMO this regulation sticks until widespread vaccine is distributed AND the positive results recorded over a period of time. This will be far too late for the March - May season.

Part of the reason why we tend to get sick in the winter is because we're stuck indoors with each other so disease spreads easier, those numbers go down when it gets warmer and we can go outside. That holds true even during a pandemic, you're watching it unfold before your very eyes. Additionally, prognosticating that we'll be keeping the same restrictions for potentially the next 7ish months when we've spent the past 8 months bouncing around from one phase to another doesn't seem like a safe bet.

Like I said, let this one play out.

 

[Snookasuperstar]

All I am saying from my original post is that yes some schools will be able to have sports, but some schools are not going to be able to afford a 25 ticket night for 6 basketball games or 3 football games.

Please correct me if I am wrong on the following:

The revenue for streaming games via nfhs is very very minimal the first 2 years for schools that use the nfhs system. schools make money from the ads from what I am reading. So some schools will be ok but other schools I don't know about

 

[courtlandcougars1987]

Its a virus people, it's an airborne virus that has been over politicized!! I am in the medical field 25 years, my wife is in pediatric medicine for past 20 years. Since this started, she has not seen or treated any child with any symptoms under 18 as of yet. We are playing a variety of sports and football at our local field house, kids are all overall our playgrounds, basketball courts, soccer field etc without masks! Protect the elderly and nursing home folks. Also, out of respect (even though I hate them) wear the mask inside a public assembly and lets move on. Open schools, teachers crying the blues, you have no justification refusing to return back to classroom when emergency workers, staff personnel, Walmart, Costco , fast food, other restaurants and grocery staff are working everyday. I don't want to here it and have absolutely n

 

[courtlandcougars1987]

No sympathy, sorry cut that off.

 

[WP02alum]

You’d be better off directing your “open schools” comments to the Spotsylvania County School Board. They are the sole entity in charge of “opening schools” in Spotsy. No one else making that call. Look around the state for examples of school divisions with kids in-person 5 days a week. There’s no boogey-man except for your local school board. Sorry if they’re not agreeing with you. You can always move or take your kids out of public schools.

 

[TheDeathPenalty]

The idiot Gov and his merry band of morons blew it. They could have had a safe fall season and instead they decided to play politics.

 

[WP02alum]

The idiot Gov and his merry band of morons blew it. They could have had a safe fall season and instead they decided to play politics.

I agree a fall season was more likely to happen. I suspect a winter spike will make the February season start less likely.

 

[courtlandcougars1987]

No the teacher unions are the issue, Fairfax County just ordered teachers back or else, most are reluctantly returning because they cannot afford continuing thier stay at home effort. However, a large chunk has decided to leave. As far as Spotsylvania County our teachers want to be back in person full time, the SCIENCE as the governor has said from git go he would govern by points to in person classes, he just enjoys moving those goal post!

 

[WP02alum]

No the teacher unions are the issue, Fairfax County just ordered teachers back or else, most are reluctantly returning because they cannot afford continuing thier stay at home effort. However, a large chunk has decided to leave. As far as Spotsylvania County our teachers want to be back in person full time, the SCIENCE as the governor has said from git go he would govern by points to in person classes, he just enjoys moving those goal post!

“Continuing their stay at home effort”...interesting. Can you tell me how many are the “large chunk” who have supposedly decided to leave rather than return to in-person in Fairfax? You seem to have all the facts.

Surprised you’ve had the time to survey every teacher in Spotsylvania. You know that there is a large percentage of teachers who don’t belong to whatever “union” you think has the power to decide these things. If unions had contract bargaining power in VA, everyone would join. But they don’t.

 

[WP02alum]

And again (because it doesn’t seem to be getting through), Northam AIN’T the reason some schools aren’t meeting in-person. There is no governor’s mandate forcing schools to be remote learning right now. That’s the choice of the LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS as evidenced by the multiple divisions currently meeting in-person. I suspect you will ignore this and continue being outraged about Northam on this topic because FACTS DON’T MATTER WHEN YOU WANT TO BE OUTRAGED.

 

[VirginiaGreat08]

What no one is talking about is the fact that every school district is different when it comes to students in the school or students learning all virtual.

How can you justify sports happening when you have no students in the building? How about students practicing/play games without wearing masks but yet they have to wear them all day in school? I'm not trying to be a "Debbie Downer" because I obviously want sports to happen. And I know it's a few months away but that's what I keep thinking about. Hopefully we will be in a spot to have football come February. I'm interested to see how winter sports plays out.

 

[Lafayette]

Virginia Beach after 1 week of in person teaching has schools going all virtual again. And so the panic begins ........ once more.

 

[Snookasuperstar]

What no one is talking about is the fact that every school district is different when it comes to students in the school or students learning all virtual.

How can you justify sports happening when you have no students in the building? How about students practicing/play games without wearing masks but yet they have to wear them all day in school? I'm not trying to be a "Debbie Downer" because I obviously want sports to happen. And I know it's a few months away but that's what I keep thinking about. Hopefully we will be in a spot to have football come February. I'm interested to see how winter sports plays out.

Agree with you completely. I want high school sports to happen for ALL students, BUT how does a school system say this virus is too dangerous for students to attend school daily, but it is safe to practice or play 5 days a week. It really does not make sense.

 

[WP02alum]

Those decisions and justifications are being left to the local levels (mostly). Which is a good situation for sports. If a division with all virtual students wants to have sports happen in-person, nothing is stopping them at this time.

 

[1MoreHokie]

Moderna vaccine results are in and they're BETTER than the Pfizer one (which was already tremendous) and the Moderna vaccine has better temp storage requirements.

"In Moderna's trial, 15,000 study participants were given a placebo, which is a shot of saline that has no effect. Over several months, 90 of them developed Covid-19, with 11 developing severe forms of the disease. Another 15,000 participants were given the vaccine, and only five of them developed Covid-19. None of the five became severely ill."

95% efficacy. The measles and smallpox vaccines both checked in around 93-94% FYI.

The Astra-Zeneca vaccine results are due in shortly and similar numbers are expected.

 

[redzone4us]

The idiot Gov and his merry band of morons blew it. They could have had a safe fall season and instead they decided to play politics.

How dare the Gov./Doctor put the health of students and fans above sports. The man should be banished to Siberia. All people need to do is take the advice of that "stable genius" in Washington and hand out doses of bleach for people to ingest when coming into the stadium. Problem solved.

 

[Snookasuperstar]

How dare the Gov./Doctor put the health of students and fans above sports. The man should be banished to Siberia. All people need to do is take the advice of that "stable genius" in Washington and hand out doses of bleach for people to ingest when coming into the stadium. Problem solved.

Well this is the point I have...schools systems are repeating keep distance wear a mask at all times, but when it comes to sports they are ok for athletes to play and not follow what they are doing in schools once their season starts. My point is schools are contradicting themselves and are basically saying sports far outweighs giving students who don’t play sports an education by giving students the option of going to school in person 5 days a week. Yes, I agree sports are important, but I also agree that elementary ages students are the ones getting left behind by not going 5 days a week. School systems may find themselves in a bind on that argument.

 

[knightfan64]

Not trying to add another political comment on the board, but let’s take a look at Swine Flu in 2009. In one year’s time the CDC reported 60+ million cases of the disease in the US alone. Currently, after approximately 8 months of various shut downs and I’d go, conservatively, an estimated 9 months with the disease in America we are at 11.3 million cases in the US....let’s say we continue for the next 4 months to get to a year.....we still won’t hit 50% of the swine flu number....not a single thing was shut down in 2009 for swine flu.

I feel for the class of 2020 and 2021 for having messed up senior years of hs. Glad my senior year and freshmen year of college was not affected this way by swine flu.

Now with all that being said, I do think those attending high school games should be limited and schools simply be required to map off the square footage and the VHSL give them a number allowed in. Allow local officers (who are at games anyway) to help enforce masks and social distancing. Don’t comply? Then kick them out and don’t let them back to COVID era games. Want bigger attendance numbers? Contract out bigger gyms for marquee matchups.

 

[1MoreHokie]

Not trying to add another political comment on the board, but let’s take a look at Swine Flu in 2009. In one year’s time the CDC reported 60+ million cases of the disease in the US alone. Currently, after approximately 8 months of various shut downs and I’d go, conservatively, an estimated 9 months with the disease in America we are at 11.3 million cases in the US....let’s say we continue for the next 4 months to get to a year.....we still won’t hit 50% of the swine flu number....not a single thing was shut down in 2009 for swine flu.

This is apples and oranges and I'll lay out multiple reasons for you to never make this argument again because is factually incorrect.

1) You are comparing known, documented cases for COVID versus CDC estimates for H1N1. 60 million people didn't go to the hospital and get tested for H1N1, those CDC estimates include undiagnosed and asymptomatic cases. Those 11 million COVID cases are 100% lab-tested and confirmed. The current estimate for total cases (undiagnosed and asymptomatic) are about 5x what documented numbers are so that's 55 million Americans right there. H1N1 ran for about 19 months as well, COVID isn't even halfway there and oh, yea, the US is adding 150k cases PER DAY right now and again, those are only the lab-tested and confirmed ones. Just like they did for H1N1, the CDC will examine this pandemic after it finishes and revise its estimates for case totals which will skyrocket the number you're comparing. The total world cases will probably be interesting to examine because the US and a few other choice countries, due to unbelievably poor leadership at the top of their federal governments, are taking the brunt of COVID-19's damage while the countries who have treated this seriously are showing far fewer issues.

2) It's called the novel coronavirus for a reason. That means it's new and it's unseen and we as a species were not prepared which is a huge reason why hospitalizations and deaths are far higher than H1N1. H1N1 was not novel, it was something a lot of people, especially the elderly, already had antibodies for so they handled the disease better, something we cannot at all say with COVID. We also had immediate treatments and a vaccine for H1N1 (the vaccine was in low supply but nonetheless existed) which, again, helped enormously in our fight against it.

3) H1N1 was less lethal (284,000 total deaths, a number the US alone will hit with relative ease) and less contagious (which is why we wear masks, socially distance, etc). COVID, even without killing you, can cause organ damage and put you at risk for serious issues for the rest of your life. This part is definitely not up for debate.


SARS-CoV-2 will likely mutate long after we've beaten this current strain and it could pop up again in the future but we will be prepared to deal with it in such a circumstance and even if it was just as contagious and potentially lethal as the 2019 version it would not have the same effect on us as a species. That's precisely why comparing the two pandemics is bad logic.

 

[knightfan64]

This is apples and oranges and I'll lay out multiple reasons for you to never make this argument again because is factually incorrect.

1) You are comparing known, documented cases for COVID versus CDC estimates for H1N1. 60 million people didn't go to the hospital and get tested for H1N1, those CDC estimates include undiagnosed and asymptomatic cases. Those 11 million COVID cases are 100% lab-tested and confirmed. The current estimate for total cases (undiagnosed and asymptomatic) are about 5x what documented numbers are so that's 55 million Americans right there. H1N1 ran for about 19 months as well, COVID isn't even halfway there and oh, yea, the US is adding 150k cases PER DAY right now and again, those are only the lab-tested and confirmed ones. Just like they did for H1N1, the CDC will examine this pandemic after it finishes and revise its estimates for case totals which will skyrocket the number you're comparing. The total world cases will probably be interesting to examine because the US and a few other choice countries, due to unbelievably poor leadership at the top of their federal governments, are taking the brunt of COVID-19's damage while the countries who have treated this seriously are showing far fewer issues.

2) It's called the novel coronavirus for a reason. That means it's new and it's unseen and we as a species were not prepared which is a huge reason why hospitalizations and deaths are far higher than H1N1. H1N1 was not novel, it was something a lot of people, especially the elderly, already had antibodies for so they handled the disease better, something we cannot at all say with COVID. We also had immediate treatments and a vaccine for H1N1 (the vaccine was in low supply but nonetheless existed) which, again, helped enormously in our fight against it.

3) H1N1 was less lethal (284,000 total deaths, a number the US alone will hit with relative ease) and less contagious (which is why we wear masks, socially distance, etc). COVID, even without killing you, can cause organ damage and put you at risk for serious issues for the rest of your life. This part is definitely not up for debate.


SARS-CoV-2 will likely mutate long after we've beaten this current strain and it could pop up again in the future but we will be prepared to deal with it in such a circumstance and even if it was just as contagious and potentially lethal as the 2019 version it would not have the same effect on us as a species. That's precisely why comparing the two pandemics is bad logic.

With all that being said.....coronabro, what do you think about my possible solution for seating? I know local schools who determined their max capacity of kids in weight rooms and gymnasiums this way for workouts. If we figure out square footage of a gym, Maybe block off first 2-3 rows behind the bench so players can spread out and not be in contact. Could we get more than 25?

If schools try to sell 25 tickets for events, I am not sure if that is even plausible to do. Maybe reserve each kid get a couple of ti

 

[btowenatc]

What no one is talking about is the fact that every school district is different when it comes to students in the school or students learning all virtual.

How can you justify sports happening when you have no students in the building? How about students practicing/play games without wearing masks but yet they have to wear them all day in school? I'm not trying to be a "Debbie Downer" because I obviously want sports to happen. And I know it's a few months away but that's what I keep thinking about. Hopefully we will be in a spot to have football come February. I'm interested to see how winter sports plays out.

It's justified IMO because school is still happening. Sports are that important to have them at all costs no matter what. It will take "God forbid" some thinking outside of the box by administrators, but it needs to happen. Make it happen. No excuses.

 

[Ampipe_High]

As this epidemic continues, more and more studies and "experts" are coming out and saying that the research and numbers show that being in school is one of the safest places for students to be. Schools are showing to have far lower numbers than the areas that they live in. Brown University did a study and between staff and students, infection rates were low, 0.13% for students and 0.24% for adults. The Cleveland Clinic also did one and in some schools, after a few initial cases, they have not had any. Some of the studies talk about the fact that students crave the schools setting and socialization, so they become even more conscious of the masks, social distancing, and washing of hands. They know that if they don't, the consequences will be no school. The studies also say that reopening of schools has not led to widespread super spreader events.

 

[1MoreHokie]

As this epidemic continues, more and more studies and "experts" are coming out and saying that the research and numbers show that being in school is one of the safest places for students to be. Schools are showing to have far lower numbers than the areas that they live in. Brown University did a study and between staff and students, infection rates were low, 0.13% for students and 0.24% for adults. The Cleveland Clinic also did one and in some schools, after a few initial cases, they have not had any. Some of the studies talk about the fact that students crave the schools setting and socialization, so they become even more conscious of the masks, social distancing, and washing of hands. They know that if they don't, the consequences will be no school. The studies also say that reopening of schools has not led to widespread super spreader events.

This is very true for K-12 and sadly untrue for colleges but I believe everyone with two working brain cells can figure out the reasons why.

Isn't it a bit sad that children have figured out that proper precautions are necessary in order to do their "job" and be social and have things as close to normal as they can get but adults, especially in this country, are unwilling to do the same? I guess it's also a bit encouraging that the older, dumber generations we all occupy are being shown up by a brighter, more informed younger generation.

 

[schoolboard]

I teach in a school where students are back in the buildings, more days a week at different levels. The biggest problem is teachers keep getting Covid, which knocks them out for at least two weeks even if all goes well. But then there are the usual teacher absences on top of that. And then substitute teachers, which were hard to find during non-pandemic times, are even more reluctant to take a chance on their health for the very limited financial gain. So we end up with classes not having a substitute, and students reporting to the auditorium learning nothing. So you can be a big man and spout off your "teachers need to be in school" or "kids need to be in school", but when you have no idea what that actually looks like, you don't come off too well.

 

[tommythecpa]

Younger generation is awesome. No college outbreaks or cancelled football games.

 

[TS69]

I understand what Schoolboard is saying. I to taught school for well over 30 years. Have friends who are still in the profession. Know what some of them are saying and going through. Substitute teachers are and have always been hard to get. Main reason is compensation. $50-60 per day not worth it. Now risk of one’s health makes it even less attractive to substitute. Many of the subs I had couldn’t implement the most simple lesson plans. I’m true kids are doing an even better job with masks than adults. If all adults would just attempt where would we be now. Look at Southwest Va. What if people had just believed, just tried, things might have been different today. Oh by the way I have coached many years. So I know safety is and should be a priority. Hopefully everyone has a safe, happy, and healthy Thanksgiving holiday.

 

[Ampipe_High]

I teach in a school where students are back in the buildings, more days a week at different levels. The biggest problem is teachers keep getting Covid, which knocks them out for at least two weeks even if all goes well. But then there are the usual teacher absences on top of that. And then substitute teachers, which were hard to find during non-pandemic times, are even more reluctant to take a chance on their health for the very limited financial gain. So we end up with classes not having a substitute, and students reporting to the auditorium learning nothing. So you can be a big man and spout off your "teachers need to be in school" or "kids need to be in school", but when you have no idea what that actually looks like, you don't come off too well.

I don't know who your being a big man comments were directed at, but I have over 20 years experience in education and coaching. In fact, if you add my parent's and siblings experience with mine, we have over 100 years of experience.

I too am in a division that has some type of in person learning and our positive numbers have been almost nonexistent. My children attend a different division, one that attends four days a week, in person and they have had great results as well.

My personal opinion is children need to be in school and measures can be taken to safely do so. It's proven that it can happen. Yes there are challenges, but they can be solved or worked around. This virus is not going anywhere and we cannot keep children out of school until Auguat/September 2021. That's 17-18 months without a formal education.

One last point...all of these schools that are virtual are having to find ways to bring students in to take SOLs in a few weeks. It's not safe to be in person even 2 days a week, but it is safe enough to bring them in to test?