Riverheads appeals
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Ugly take Riverheads fans and no offense to a couple of my Red Team buddies on here, but this isn't gonna set well with fans around the state. I didn't think RH would appeal to play down. I'm interest in RH fans think. If you have dominated in Class 1 the last decade and now have Class 2 numbers, wouldn't you want to give it a go in Class 2 and shut up the doubters over the years? I would actually want to play in Class 2 as a RH fan if my numbers were now Class 2.
This is probably where someone will bring up that it is more than just about football. But it seems like Riverheads does really well in most of the other sports too.
I was a little surprised by the appeal. I personally wanted to play in class 2 but I don’t get a say, lol. The student athletes didn’t get a say either but it is what it is.
If the appeal fails and the Gladiators do move up to Class 2, there will not be much change in regular season action, but the playoffs would be more competitive from the opening round. The last few years have settled into a pattern where the Big Red gets to host the first two or even three weeks and they pummel some lower seed. Finally the competition level picks up in the last two rounds. So playoff games against teams like Appo, SD, Graham, and whoever else is out there could occur earlier and it would make for an overall more exciting post-season.
I thought they would appeal to try and keep that championship streak going. If they lose the appeal I believe they will be a contender in class 2. They're a well oiled machine that doesn't make many mistakes. I'm curious to see how things go with the new coach but I don't think we'll see much drop off anytime soon.
It will not hurt wrestling at all. Basketball is a different story. Baseball/Softball, probably not much difference. Track, cross country, tennis will be harder at regional and state play but, not to bad. Volleyball, I have no idea.
But if you have followed the last few years, the Gladiator girls have at least been competitive against the Fort whereas the past couple of meetings with Auburn have been blowouts. However, I think Auburn finally graduated its superstar, so maybe that dynasty will not be QUITE as overpowering in the future.
2A would be much more difficult for them in volleyball. Auburn has been a stellar program for 1A for the past several years and could compete through the 4A level. Riverheads would have to contend with Glenvar (state champs last year), Floyd (recent state semi-finalist), Radford (state champs 2 or 3 years ago), and Giles ( made state tournament recently) who all happen to be in the same district as Auburn. I'm not sure about the region B schools in 2A, but the region C and D schools would be a problem for Riverheads.
Riverheads arguing to stay in 1A does nothing but fan the flames of those who has been suspicious of them manipulating the numbers the past few years. As there is no reason geographically not to go 2A
LOL charlie22650, teams being a problem that have similar number of students is kind of the way it is supposed to be. Even for great 2A football programs like Appo, Graham, King William, S.Draft, they still have problems with other 2A schools. That's kind of how it's supposed to be.
Let's say there was no suspicion on numbers in the past, and all there was was geography/scheduling/competitiveness while in 1A in most sports and ability to be competitive in 2A in most sports/and number of students and projected growth of the area. Riverheads has no argument for staying Class 1 in any of the above categories. When a team appeals, do they have to list reasons? I wonder how it was written up? What possible argument is there to appeal on?
What is the cut off for 1A in the newest alignment cycle? I ask because there is an abnormally large freshman class this year. The only logic I can come up with is that RH will fall back below that line mid cycle and everyone will bitch and moan about that too. If what I have read is correct the adm is 7 or 9 over the hard cutoff. As I stated before I am for playing up but the absurdity of any school fudging numbers to play football is laughable at best. All you keyboard warriors unite and stand your ground over the unproven and ludicrous accusations of the number scandal. For the record it’s the third AD since this non sense was first brought up and I would have to think someone would have spilled the beans by now with so many being involved in this orchestrated and far reaching coverup, lol. Sounds plausible to me, someone should have to answer for this.
Redpride, that right there makes sense to me. If u got a huge class and u know you likely are gonna be hovering at or below the cutoff in 2 or 3 years, then that sounds like something a team could appeal about. I never thought about that, but have wondered the reason for the appeal.
The classes behind this group will drop back to average around 105 I believe which when you take 3 would put them at 315 to possibly 325. No argument from me on playing where you belong but someone will always be the largest group and conversely there will be one that is the smallest. I was hoping that we would not appeal but if that was the reason for consideration, I can somewhat buy that. Otherwise I honestly can’t figure it myself.
I was told, VHSL didn't set a hard-line cutoff for any classification with the intent of settling disputes (or appeals) on a case by case basis, not based on ADM's hovering around an arbitrary number. I can't speak to the validity of the claim, just repeating what I was told by an administrator.
Valid point @sixcat. It was my understanding that they were seeking to have approximately the same numbers in each division but that doesn’t line up either. It’s truly a mess and one that I don’t think will ever have an answer that will satisfy everyone. There have been numerous suggestions on here and I still go back to the European soccer model of moving the top two up and the bottom two down from each division. Play your schedule and garner your points but success in the playoffs would be rewarded by a tougher time the following year in the playoffs. Just a thought
Well I have to say I'm blown away.... not really. Some valid points have been made for why they might appeal.
However, I'm always reminded of a handful of Riverheads fans who always say "just get better" and/or "deal with the cards you were given" when anyone brings up enrollment. So I wonder how that little group feels about this? Wakefield? JMU?
However, I'm always reminded of a handful of Riverheads fans who always say "just get better" and/or "deal with the cards you were given" when anyone brings up enrollment. So I wonder how that little group feels about this? Wakefield? JMU?
I am pretty sure they are switching to 9-11 but for years it was the full HS count for average daily membership (adm).
bhaun@vhsl.org
I'm going to leave this email address right here. This is Billy Haun, VHSL Executive Director. I have emailed him before and he is a very nice gentleman.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who question Riverheads motives for staying in D1 to speak up. Send Mr. Haun an email giving reasons why you feel Riverheads should move up.
Title it something like "Riverheads appeal needs to be rejected" or something like that.
In the body don't just put "Riverheads is a bunch of cheaters" or "Riverheads is gaming the system", no matter how tempting that may be for some. I'd say go with the following: point out how many sub 400 enrollment (9-12) schools are struggling to field programs these days, name the ones who have dropped football altogether. Point out the fact that a school that has nearly that many students in grades 9-11 is trying hard to continue playing at that level. What motives? And be sure to ask Mr. Haun if he and the rest of the VHSL are comfortable with the idea of losing many, many more small schools to 8 man football or no football at all in the very near future.
For now, can someone name off all the schools with sub 400 enrollment who are either a) not fielding a team this season or b) struggling to get numbers above 20?
I will be working on my email to him over the next few days as work permits, and will share it with everyone if you wish to see a template.
Obviously I cannot promise this will work, but can it hurt? The alternative is listening to the side of their fanbase that loves to rub everyones noses in it and tell us that we all just need to "get better" .. and then goes completely AWOL when their school starts fighting a move up.
I'm going to leave this email address right here. This is Billy Haun, VHSL Executive Director. I have emailed him before and he is a very nice gentleman.
Perhaps it is time for those of us who question Riverheads motives for staying in D1 to speak up. Send Mr. Haun an email giving reasons why you feel Riverheads should move up.
Title it something like "Riverheads appeal needs to be rejected" or something like that.
In the body don't just put "Riverheads is a bunch of cheaters" or "Riverheads is gaming the system", no matter how tempting that may be for some. I'd say go with the following: point out how many sub 400 enrollment (9-12) schools are struggling to field programs these days, name the ones who have dropped football altogether. Point out the fact that a school that has nearly that many students in grades 9-11 is trying hard to continue playing at that level. What motives? And be sure to ask Mr. Haun if he and the rest of the VHSL are comfortable with the idea of losing many, many more small schools to 8 man football or no football at all in the very near future.
For now, can someone name off all the schools with sub 400 enrollment who are either a) not fielding a team this season or b) struggling to get numbers above 20?
I will be working on my email to him over the next few days as work permits, and will share it with everyone if you wish to see a template.
Obviously I cannot promise this will work, but can it hurt? The alternative is listening to the side of their fanbase that loves to rub everyones noses in it and tell us that we all just need to "get better" .. and then goes completely AWOL when their school starts fighting a move up.
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Your post does not really deserve a response but I take serious exception to your saying Riverheads is a bunch of cheaters. It is a great school to have a child in and far from a bunch of cheaters.
No doubt rhsgrad, RH isn't a bunch of cheaters. What RH's has done has been amazing and it's something that wlll be talked about for decades in Virginia High School Football, but you gotta see the bad taste in many people's mouths when RH is appealing to stay Class 1 when they have Class 2 Numbers based on how solid they've been in not just football, but other sports. Even if barely Class 2 numbers and possibly dipping back to Class 1 numbers the next cycle, the fact is they have Class 2 numbers during this recount. So knowing that, and I think I'm in this group, I just can't understand why there would be a fight? Why on Earth would RH's argue or appeal to play Class 1? Based on the success and the usual crazy arguments or debating how well RH would do or not do if they were Class 2, why on Earth wouldn't you want to shut the doubters up and be begging to play Class 2, forget about appealing to stay Class 1, but if your a football coach or admin person, I would have argued to play up 3 years ago for the competitive nature of doing so. But even if no argument 2 or 3 yrs ago to play up with Class 1 numbers, it is just mind boggling to me as to how you would actually argue, fight, or appeal to stay Class 1 at present with Class 2 numbers? You have to admit from an outside fans perspective, it's just a bad take man.
I don't think they are either. But I'm not everyone. And I'm warning others not to say something like that.
What I am encouraging is for people to point out legitimate reasons for them being put in 2A and losing that appeal.
Whether you like it or not, it is a bad look for them to appeal considering their success over the years. And when you toss in the attitude that some of their fans have exhibited when you consider the rest of 1A is basically told to just "get better and deal with it"... like I say, provide legit reasons to the VHSL for denying their appeal. I respect the program, I respect the accomplishments. I believe it when it was said they're down around 450 students, but I think they should also be expect to accept it and deal with moving up when the numbers say so.
I agree with you mmqp on RH shouldn't have appealed, but the RH fans I've met over the years were just first class people. Even on this message board, good people. Having watched em on the field over years and their coaches on the sidelines, just nothing but class and 100 percent respect.
Most of them are great people. I'd say most of the guys who have commented on this thread or in reply to my post are the good guys.
There are also a few (no one that has posted..yet) who have no problem dogging out the other schools in 1A and telling us to "deal with it and just get better". They know who they are. The good guys know who they are and they know who I'm calling out.
Regardless, if their numbers say they're 2A size then they need to take the medicine that the vocal minority of their fanbase always tells us to take and "deal with it" and move up. How anyone can argue that is beyond me.
The one argument I can see being made is these cycles should be 2 year cycles and not 4.
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On the RH fanbase. About all fans are rooting for their school regardless and at the end of day, I would bet a RH fan will be as enthusiastic if they are in Class 2 or Class 1. But, i ain't sure the majority of RH fans are for staying Class 1. I think the majority would be in favor of going Class 2 if they had their preference.
Riverheads has always played where the VHSL has put them . If Class 2 is where they are then great ! Should make for much better contest in Football . Not sure why they want to stay down ?
Well, that email address is up there for them to use as they see fit as well.
They can also ask the admin whats up.
Personally I don't know what Riverheads numbers are and never have, I have always said if VHSL says they're class one that the rest of the class has to tighten the chin strap and play them. Heck my son would probably of had 3 rings now if it weren't for the big red machine. Guess what I'm trying to say regardless of of what class they have played in what they have accomplished is super impressive. With that being said I don't agree with the appeal. If your numbers are above the cutoff line you should have to play up and that goes for GW and Grayson as well who have both appealed to stay in class one.
I guess I will make some unhappy here, The only problem I have with Riverheads is, statistically speaking, is the likelihood of a class 1 team being able to field enough talent to dominate the way Riverheads has is a million to one.. I understand they have/had some of the best coaching in the state, but if you don’t have talent you aren’t gonna win. Are they cheating to achieve this?? I don’t have proof of that nor do I care to find out, All I’m saying is the likelihood of this is so unreal and the fact they are appealing to stay is sketch to me. It’s only my humble opinion, and I’m positive I’m not the only one who thinks this way.
