Roanoke area schools have very good football right now.

[freeatlast2013]

River Ridge district with Salem , Patrick Henry , Blacksburg , and some other teams not far behind
Blue Ridge with William Byrd , Lord Botetourt , Staunton River and Northside .

Side note Blacksburg is about 45 minutes from Roanoke in New River valley but in River Ridge district and they may be better next year.

 

[wikki]

River Ridge district with Salem , Patrick Henry , Blacksburg , and some other teams not far behind
Blue Ridge with William Byrd , Lord Botetourt , Staunton River and Northside .

Side note Blacksburg is about 45 minutes from Roanoke in New River valley but in River Ridge district and they may be better next year.

Staunton River is in Moneta

 

[freeatlast2013]

Staunton River is in Roanoke area. 13 miles from William Byrd high school.

 

[valleyes]

It's been very pleasant having this kind of success in the area. Always a good game to go to. Add in 2A Glenvar and you have a pretty good list.

 

[wikki]

Staunton River is in Moneta

but they used to also be in the Seminole district

 

[mike salem]

but they used to also be in the Seminole district

Since they are Bedford Co, both Lynchburg and Roanoke could consider them their area. JF & Liberty are closer to Lynchburg and play in the Seminole. SR is closer to Roanoke and they now play in the BRD with Northside, Byrd, Fleming, & Botetourt. (Rockbridge and Alleghany are leaving this Fall) So I would consider them Roanoke area.

Blacksburg is NRV,. (although they have joined with fellow NRV schools Christiansburg and Pulaski to play in the RRD with Roanoke area schools in Salem, Cave Spring, Hidden Valley, and Patrick Henry)

 

[freeatlast2013]

Seminole was overrated this year in my opinion. Heritage almost lost to Hidden Valley, Brookville blown off the field by Blacksburg, Rustburg blown out by Staunton River. Amherst had the most talent and they did give Salem their only loss but like JF last year Salem was much better at end of year than at the begining . At end of year, Salem, Blacksburg, Staunton River and William Byrd were better than anybody in Seminole. Every year is a new year .

 

[mike salem]

Seminole was overrated this year in my opinion. Heritage almost lost to Hidden Valley, Brookville blown off the field by Blacksburg, Rustburg blown out by Staunton River. Amherst had the most talent and they did give Salem their only loss but like JF last year Salem was much better at end of year than at the begining . At end of year, Salem, Blacksburg, Staunton River and William Byrd were better than anybody in Seminole. Every year is a new year .

Seminole is trying to climb back up that mountain since Brookville won back to back state titles in '11 & '12. I wouldn't say Seminole was overrated last year. 5 of their 7 full-time members were above .500. Not as good as they have been in the past, but top to bottom tough to beat the Seminole.

Don't forget JF (tied for last in the Seminole) almost beat PH (2nd in the RRD) In fact, JF lost 8 games by a total of 38 points (that's less than 5 pts per contest in their losses) RRD had Salem and an amazing turnaround team in Blacksburg that won 8 of the final 9 games to win it all.

 

[freeatlast2013]

Overrated was probably a strong word and they were very balanced but I guess my point was that the perception of their overall strength was less at end of year than at the beginning. The River Ridge ended up with two state titles and some other teams that were pretty good. JF played a lot of close games but their overall work was not close to PH. Individual scores don't mean a lot against a whole seasons games, otherwise Amherst would be state champion.

 

[Lineheart]

Overrated was probably a strong word and they were very balanced but I guess my point was that the perception of their overall strength was less at end of year than at the beginning. The River Ridge ended up with two state titles and some other teams that were pretty good. JF played a lot of close games but their overall work was not close to PH. Individual scores don't mean a lot against a whole seasons games, otherwise Amherst would be state champion.

It depends on who was doing the judging of the Seminole at the start of the year.Just to play devils advocate.What did River Ridge have after Salem and Blacksburg?PH wasn't that much better than Seminole last place team JF.Pulaski in my mind woundn't had a winning record in the Seminole.I think in the River Ridge you could take a few weeks off and win by 30.You take a few weeks off in the Seminole you will be 0-2.If you value Championships(I do)then River Ridge is the best,if you value competition on a week to week basis I go with Seminole.I would take the River Ridge cause of the Championships but that doesn't mean the Seminole was a cakewalk either.Nice comment about Amherst.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Overrated was probably a strong word and they were very balanced but I guess my point was that the perception of their overall strength was less at end of year than at the beginning. The River Ridge ended up with two state titles and some other teams that were pretty good. JF played a lot of close games but their overall work was not close to PH. Individual scores don't mean a lot against a whole seasons games, otherwise Amherst would be state champion.

I thought "overrated" was accurate.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

It depends on who was doing the judging of the Seminole at the start of the year.Just to play devils advocate.What did River Ridge have after Salem and Blacksburg?PH wasn't that much better than Seminole last place team JF.Pulaski in my mind woundn't had a winning record in the Seminole.I think in the River Ridge you could take a few weeks off and win by 30.You take a few weeks off in the Seminole you will be 0-2.If you value Championships(I do)then River Ridge is the best,if you value competition on a week to week basis I go with Seminole.I would take the River Ridge cause of the Championships but that doesn't mean the Seminole was a cakewalk either.Nice comment about Amherst.

Just a few details:
~PH beat Blacksburg. Blacksburg won the state as the third-place team in the RRD.
~Pulaski Co. went 4-3 in RRD games, barely over .500. One could argue that the primary reason the Cougars finished better than 5-5 at all has not so much to do with their district, as it does with the fact that they played easy marks Bassett and Franklin Co. for two of their three non-district games.
~I think you're overlooking Liberty, who - although they squeaked by JF to technically avoid last-place - finished 2-8, was the worst team in the Seminole, got absolutely smoked by Hidden Valley, and would probably only beat Carroll County in the RRD.

To play devil's advocate in return, what did the Seminole have at all, come playoff time? Salem and Blacksburg were both playing significantly better than any Seminole team, by then.

Unless I misread freeatlast's first couple of posts, the intent of this thread wasn't to compare the RRD and the Seminole. But since we've gotten there, my own opinion is that in 2016, the RRD had a stronger top (Salem, Blacksburg, maybe PH) and a weaker bottom (perennially sucky Carroll Co., to whom we joyfully say "see ya"). The Seminole had four good teams that were all definitely better than Pulaski, and maybe better than PH - who, though they finished second, were actually the third-best team in the RRD by season's end.

 

[blackknight_pride]

It is certainly safe to say the Roanoke area is one of the strongest areas for football.

 

[Lineheart]

Just a few details:
~PH beat Blacksburg. Blacksburg won the state as the third-place team in the RRD.
~Pulaski Co. went 4-3 in RRD games, barely over .500. One could argue that the primary reason the Cougars finished better than 5-5 at all has not so much to do with their district, as it does with the fact that they played easy marks Bassett and Franklin Co. for two of their three non-district games.
~I think you're overlooking Liberty, who - although they squeaked by JF to technically avoid last-place - finished 2-8, was the worst team in the Seminole, got absolutely smoked by Hidden Valley, and would probably only beat Carroll County in the RRD.

To play devil's advocate in return, what did the Seminole have at all, come playoff time? Salem and Blacksburg were both playing significantly better than any Seminole team, by then.

Unless I misread freeatlast's first couple of posts, the intent of this thread wasn't to compare the RRD and the Seminole. But since we've gotten there, my own opinion is that in 2016, the RRD had a stronger top (Salem, Blacksburg, maybe PH) and a weaker bottom (perennially sucky Carroll Co., to whom we joyfully say "see ya"). The Seminole had four good teams that were all definitely better than Pulaski, and maybe better than PH - who, though they finished second, were actually the third-best team in the RRD by season's end.

Please read my post again,I said River Ridge was better cause I judge by Championships.The expectations of the Seminole was to high at the start of the season from people who knew nothing about the teams involve.The SEC of High School Football is a expectation that wasn't going to happen.

 

[mbonape1]

The Roanoke area does have some good football. I wish they had more 5A- 6A teams to help with statewide balance at the top.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

Please read my post again,I said River Ridge was better cause I judge by Championships.The expectations of the Seminole was to high at the start of the season from people who knew nothing about the teams involve.The SEC of High School Football is a expectation that wasn't going to happen.

Yes, I picked up on that the first time through. I think we are essentially in agreement.

 

[mike salem]

Overrated was probably a strong word and they were very balanced but I guess my point was that the perception of their overall strength was less at end of year than at the beginning. The River Ridge ended up with two state titles and some other teams that were pretty good. JF played a lot of close games but their overall work was not close to PH. Individual scores don't mean a lot against a whole seasons games, otherwise Amherst would be state champion.

If you consider the top 2 at season's end in the RRD won state titles. Beyond that I'd slot Seminole teams 1=4 (Amherst, Rustburg, Brookville, Heritage) as good or better than the rest of the RRD. PH would probably fare well in the Seminole this year along with Salem and Blacksburg (2nd half) but otherwise the Seminole was better in the middle I'd guess you'd say. Expectations are always high for the Seminole (SEC district of 3/4A Football) so from that perspective going into the season and the end results, Seminole could be considered overrated. I still think top to bottom it would be hard for most 3/4A districts to compete. Liberty wasn't good, but otherwise every other team would compete week in and week out with any district in the 3/4A state of Va.

 

[freeatlast2013]

Just don't think your argument holds water Mike respectfully . Rustburg was one of the top teams in Seminole who got blown out by Staunton River, who lost to Blacksburg. In that scenario , hard to believe but at the end of year , Blacksburg wins the Seminole. I am not bad mouthing Seminole because they are very competitive and had a lot of good teams but just trying to point out the strength of Roanoke area teams .

 

[mike salem]

Just don't think your argument holds water Mike respectfully . Rustburg was one of the top teams in Seminole who got blown out by Staunton River, who lost to Blacksburg. In that scenario , hard to believe but at the end of year , Blacksburg wins the Seminole. I am not bad mouthing Seminole because they are very competitive and had a lot of good teams but just trying to point out the strength of Roanoke area teams .

Comparing seasons at the end of the year is much different than actually having to run the gauntlet that is the Seminole District. Those teams beat each other up unlike the majority of the RRD schedule which is mostly a cakewalk other than Salem, PH, and Blacksburg the 2nd half of the year. There's no way to know what would happen if they played a tough Seminole schedule week in week out. I'll just respectfully agree to disagree with you on certain aspects of your post. (I don't completely disagree with you as you make some valid points @freeatlast2013)

 

[freeatlast2013]

I am not disagreeing and I would have thought the same but let us look back.
Heritage lost to Amherst by one point and to Rustburg by 1 point . and beat Hidden Valley by 6 points while Hidden Valley had lossed to PH by 17 , to Pulaski by 18 , to Salem by 53 and beat Liberty by 40 .

Brookville had a close loss to Heritage and a close win over Amherst but was blown out by 30 to Blacksburg .

Blacksburg lost to Hidden Valley by 1 , beat Pulaski by 4, lost to Patrick Henry by 11, beat Heritage by 7 and lost to Salem by 36.

Glass and Liberty were not very good but Glass is improving . They beat Fleming by 3. Fleming beat nobody.

JF played in a lot of 1 or 2 score games because of their offense but maybe they were playing against mediocre teams in Seminole.

I am going to touch on a sensitive issue because everybody likes Amherst and they are first class. Did Amherst beat Salem or did Salem not play against Amherst. Salem shredded Amherst in the first game but our defense was like swiss cheese in that game. They made a couple of throws that by grandson could have caught . There was nobody in site of receiver . Salem had major breakdowns.
The purpose of these comparisons is not to bad mouth Seminole or to say we are better than them but maybe the River Ridge was not as bad as people think and Salem was elite team as they proved against a great team in Dinwiddie . Everybody in Seminole kept on throwing Appomattox out there , an elite single A program , who probably would have won Seminole. Appomattox would not have come close against Dinwiddie or any elite team in Division 4 , in my opinion. That being said , Appomattox reminds me of Gretna in their heyday, a great program.

Remember this is a one year comparison . Amherst , in my opinion had elite Division 4 talent but they never got any better and teams usually improve during the year. They did have a big injury to their QB but never rebounded . Just because there were close games in the Seminole does not justify saying they were extremely good when Hidden Valley, Blacksburg and Pulaski and Patrick Henry were just as competitive against those same teams . I do not think they beat each other up but merely were teams with gaping holes. Remember one other score comparison . Byrd shut down Staunton River , a team that very likely would have won the Seminole, was shut down again by Blacksburg. There are numerous examples to back up my points but things change year to year and Salem may not be elite next year . We will see.But in 2016 the mid teams in the River Ridge were just as good or better than any team in Seminole and that is proved , not by one game but by the whole season.

Hopefully, did not hurt any feelings out there because that was not my intention but merely to touch on some of the talk on here that Salem played a weak schedule and plays one every year . I think maybe things change every year and sometimes that is correct and sometimes not.

 

[shauntclair]

Consider the premise of the thread.

Yes, there is good football being played in the Roanoke area. No matter where you go, you can be pretty confident there will be a competitive, quality game.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

I am not disagreeing and I would have thought the same but let us look back.
Heritage lost to Amherst by one point and to Rustburg by 1 point . and beat Hidden Valley by 6 points while Hidden Valley had lossed to PH by 17 , to Pulaski by 18 , to Salem by 53 and beat Liberty by 40 .

Brookville had a close loss to Heritage and a close win over Amherst but was blown out by 30 to Blacksburg .

Blacksburg lost to Hidden Valley by 1 , beat Pulaski by 4, lost to Patrick Henry by 11, beat Heritage by 7 and lost to Salem by 36.

Glass and Liberty were not very good but Glass is improving . They beat Fleming by 3. Fleming beat nobody.

JF played in a lot of 1 or 2 score games because of their offense but maybe they were playing against mediocre teams in Seminole.

I am going to touch on a sensitive issue because everybody likes Amherst and they are first class. Did Amherst beat Salem or did Salem not play against Amherst. Salem shredded Amherst in the first game but our defense was like swiss cheese in that game. They made a couple of throws that by grandson could have caught . There was nobody in site of receiver . Salem had major breakdowns.
The purpose of these comparisons is not to bad mouth Seminole or to say we are better than them but maybe the River Ridge was not as bad as people think and Salem was elite team as they proved against a great team in Dinwiddie . Everybody in Seminole kept on throwing Appomattox out there , an elite single A program , who probably would have won Seminole. Appomattox would not have come close against Dinwiddie or any elite team in Division 4 , in my opinion. That being said , Appomattox reminds me of Gretna in their heyday, a great program.

Remember this is a one year comparison . Amherst , in my opinion had elite Division 4 talent but they never got any better and teams usually improve during the year. They did have a big injury to their QB but never rebounded . Just because there were close games in the Seminole does not justify saying they were extremely good when Hidden Valley, Blacksburg and Pulaski and Patrick Henry were just as competitive against those same teams . I do not think they beat each other up but merely were teams with gaping holes. Remember one other score comparison . Byrd shut down Staunton River , a team that very likely would have won the Seminole, was shut down again by Blacksburg. There are numerous examples to back up my points but things change year to year and Salem may not be elite next year . We will see.But in 2016 the mid teams in the River Ridge were just as good or better than any team in Seminole and that is proved , not by one game but by the whole season.

Hopefully, did not hurt any feelings out there because that was not my intention but merely to touch on some of the talk on here that Salem played a weak schedule and plays one every year . I think maybe things change every year and sometimes that is correct and sometimes not.

Good post. Well thought-out and well-stated arguments. As far as the crap about Salem's schedule, that comes almost exclusively from one source, and I think any regular of the board learned to tune out that meaningless noise years ago. Two straight state 4A championships should go a long way toward quelling any further whining along the "weak schedule" lines, if anyone should feel so inclined. Scoreboard, baby.

Salem played by far their worst game of the season against Amherst, and that doesn't even seem debatable. Beckley, in my opinion, had the only bad performance of his varsity career, and the Spartan's defensive performance was so atypically bad as to border on surreal. Yet with all of that, and another factor or two, Salem lost by a mere two points. Amherst was a very good team, but IMHO Salem largely beat themselves that game, with the unguarded Lancer receivers, innumerable missed tackles, and the killer pick six on what seemed (from the safety of my seat way up in the stands) to be a really ill-advised throw. It's unfortunate that Amherst's qb was injured, as I think they probably would have been a legit threat to win the West otherwise. I think Salem would have prevailed in a playoff rematch against a fully-healthy Lancers squad, but such a game wasn't in the cards.

I'm just glad Salem was able to learn from the loss, address what needed to be addressed, and go on to reach their full potential.

 

[hsorange]

I am not disagreeing and I would have thought the same but let us look back.
Heritage lost to Amherst by one point and to Rustburg by 1 point . and beat Hidden Valley by 6 points while Hidden Valley had lossed to PH by 17 , to Pulaski by 18 , to Salem by 53 and beat Liberty by 40 .

Brookville had a close loss to Heritage and a close win over Amherst but was blown out by 30 to Blacksburg .

Blacksburg lost to Hidden Valley by 1 , beat Pulaski by 4, lost to Patrick Henry by 11, beat Heritage by 7 and lost to Salem by 36.

Glass and Liberty were not very good but Glass is improving . They beat Fleming by 3. Fleming beat nobody.

JF played in a lot of 1 or 2 score games because of their offense but maybe they were playing against mediocre teams in Seminole.

I am going to touch on a sensitive issue because everybody likes Amherst and they are first class. Did Amherst beat Salem or did Salem not play against Amherst. Salem shredded Amherst in the first game but our defense was like swiss cheese in that game. They made a couple of throws that by grandson could have caught . There was nobody in site of receiver . Salem had major breakdowns.
The purpose of these comparisons is not to bad mouth Seminole or to say we are better than them but maybe the River Ridge was not as bad as people think and Salem was elite team as they proved against a great team in Dinwiddie . Everybody in Seminole kept on throwing Appomattox out there , an elite single A program , who probably would have won Seminole. Appomattox would not have come close against Dinwiddie or any elite team in Division 4 , in my opinion. That being said , Appomattox reminds me of Gretna in their heyday, a great program.

Remember this is a one year comparison . Amherst , in my opinion had elite Division 4 talent but they never got any better and teams usually improve during the year. They did have a big injury to their QB but never rebounded . Just because there were close games in the Seminole does not justify saying they were extremely good when Hidden Valley, Blacksburg and Pulaski and Patrick Henry were just as competitive against those same teams . I do not think they beat each other up but merely were teams with gaping holes. Remember one other score comparison . Byrd shut down Staunton River , a team that very likely would have won the Seminole, was shut down again by Blacksburg. There are numerous examples to back up my points but things change year to year and Salem may not be elite next year . We will see.But in 2016 the mid teams in the River Ridge were just as good or better than any team in Seminole and that is proved , not by one game but by the whole season.

Hopefully, did not hurt any feelings out there because that was not my intention but merely to touch on some of the talk on here that Salem played a weak schedule and plays one every year . I think maybe things change every year and sometimes that is correct and sometimes not.

The Roanoke area was definitely stronger than the Seminole this year. Head to head and playoff runs show that. Just be careful using transitive property of opponents in sports to make arguments. In sports, styles make games, team A beat team B, team B beat team C, and team C beat team A. Comparing scores from one team's games versus different opponents is challenging because of matchups, scheme familiarity, plus many high school kids are wildly inconsistent performers. I don't like to think injuries play a big part because truly good teams can have their best player or a key player go down and have others step their game up or adjust their style of play some.

I believe the Seminole gets a lot of credit in a way similar to the SEC. They usually have 1 or 2 really strong teams competing for a championship, and the rest are nothing special. The last couple years have not had those real contenders though. But the key is it has been different schools having good runs. Not including LCA, 5 of 7 teams have won a state championship in the last 20 years (no JF or Glass), with Amherst and Brookville winning multiple. From 99 to 2012 (no title appearances since), the Seminole had a team play for a title 9 of 14 seasons going 8-4 in title games, which is an amazing run for one district and where I believe the reputation comes from.

However, the last few years have not been nearly that good and the best Lynchburg area teams have been the Altavista(could have challenged for 2A/3A title) and Appomattox(could have challenged for 3A/4A title) squads who both would have likely won the Seminole in their championship years.

Roanoke has had Salem as a consistent powerhouse, has two districts with teams from 3a to 6a. Northside jumped up and won 2 titles, and this year with Blacksburg, were the only non-Salem teams to win it all in 3a and up. Roanoke area is 9-5 in title games in last since 99 (and Salem won in 98) with title appearances in 11 of 18 years. 3 of 15 in the River ridge and Blue ridge combined have won titles.

That is key reputation stat 70% of fans can look back at a somewhat recent title versus 20%. The Seminole being the only district we consider Lynchburg area (Gretna won 2 titles in 3a as part of Dogwood and they are closer to Lynchburg than Pulaski to Roanoke) with more schools having had recent success and two separate districts in Roanoke area with Salem having had the bulk of the success.

 

[shauntclair]

Good post. Well thought-out and well-stated arguments. As far as the crap about Salem's schedule, that comes almost exclusively from one source, and I think any regular of the board learned to tune out that meaningless noise years ago. Two straight state 4A championships should go a long way toward quelling any further whining along the "weak schedule" lines, if anyone should feel so inclined. Scoreboard, baby.

Salem played by far their worst game of the season against Amherst, and that doesn't even seem debatable. Beckley, in my opinion, had the only bad performance of his varsity career, and the Spartan's defensive performance was so atypically bad as to border on surreal. Yet with all of that, and another factor or two, Salem lost by a mere two points. Amherst was a very good team, but IMHO Salem largely beat themselves that game, with the unguarded Lancer receivers, innumerable missed tackles, and the killer pick six on what seemed (from the safety of my seat way up in the stands) to be a really ill-advised throw. It's unfortunate that Amherst's qb was injured, as I think they probably would have been a legit threat to win the West otherwise. I think Salem would have prevailed in a playoff rematch against a fully-healthy Lancers squad, but such a game wasn't in the cards.

I'm just glad Salem was able to learn from the loss, address what needed to be addressed, and go on to reach their full potential.

Not just me. VHSL-Reference has Salem's SOS by regular season opponent and 4A as 21st out of 28.

What I have said is that you really don't know who Salem is until playoff time because of that schedule. I have said th regulars get plenty of rest, fewer injuries and backup experience because of it. It gives them a high seed a and an easy opponent in round 1. Their path to the playoffs is much easier than most. If you don't think that helps a team, I don't know what else to tell you.

I do not question what they have done the last 2 post seasons. I do believe the the 2015 LT would win 9 out of 10 but the Titans played poorly and Salem did as well as they could have, especially the defense. This year, against the Generals, they played an almost perfect game and needed to. When crunch time came, the Spartans performed at their best and I have given them all due respect when they did. I especially admire their Pro-style offense and overall balance. Something I have also said before.

I do not dislike them at all. You have to admire their consistency. They are exceptionally well Coached. I simply don't deify them as the Spartans fans do. Thusly, I have my own Legion of haters because I don't feel the same. Welcome to the club.

 

[freeatlast2013]

It sure does not help Lafayette or Powhatan.

 

[freeatlast2013]

We all know those ratings are false because otherwise the Loudoun county teams would win every year.

 

[freeatlast2013]

I have been hearing for years about how the 757 and Richmond area schools play battle tested schedules and therefore are ready when playoff time comes . Your theory based upon thrown together facts to support your viewpoint does not hold water. Anybody that has played football knows that is not the case.

 

[shauntclair]

It sure does not help Lafayette or Powhatan.

Of course it helped Powhatan and Lafayette. Until their move to the Jefferson, Powhatan did not lose a District game in more than a decade. Lafayette does the same in their District.

The schedule does not give you a real sense of who they are. Same for Salem. Just sayin'. Thanks for proving my point.

And making assumptions that players get more rest, get fewer injuries and get backups quality playing time are hardly quantum leaps from there. Thanks for the assist.

 

[freeatlast2013]

Cmon man

 

[Shabutie]

Of course it helped Powhatan and Lafayette. Until their move to the Jefferson, Powhatan did not lose a District game in more than a decade. Lafayette does the same in their District.

The schedule does not give you a real sense of who they are. Same for Salem. Just sayin'. Thanks for proving my point.

And making assumptions that players get more rest, get fewer injuries and get backups quality playing time are hardly quantum leaps from there. Thanks for the assist.

I think they meant that it didn't help them come playoff time. The best teams win state championships... that is why Blacksburg won in 3A despite losing a bunch of games to Roanoke area teams.

 

[mike salem]

Not just me. VHSL-Reference has Salem's SOS by regular season opponent and 4A as 21st out of 28.

What I have said is that you really don't know who Salem is until playoff time because of that schedule. I have said th regulars get plenty of rest, fewer injuries and backup experience because of it. It gives them a high seed a and an easy opponent in round 1. Their path to the playoffs is much easier than most. If you don't think that helps a team, I don't know what else to tell you.

I do not question what they have done the last 2 post seasons. I do believe the the 2015 LT would win 9 out of 10 but the Titans played poorly and Salem did as well as they could have, especially the defense. This year, against the Generals, they played an almost perfect game and needed to. When crunch time came, the Spartans performed at their best and I have given them all due respect when they did. I especially admire their Pro-style offense and overall balance. Something I have also said before.

I do not dislike them at all. You have to admire their consistency. They are exceptionally well Coached. I simply don't deify them as the Spartans fans do. Thusly, I have my own Legion of haters because I don't feel the same. Welcome to the club.

And by the end of the year their SOS went to 4th of 28 teams in 4A West and they won 13 in a row to finish out the season.

We can talk about this ad nauseum, but just go ahead and talk to the hands- the one with 8 rings weighing em down!!!!! WOOOO! Brother!

 

[cutnjump]

With the current VHSL playoff structure a discussion of SOS is, for the most part, irrelevant. This is not many years ago or even more recent times in the Richmond area where 9-1 teams routinely sit home and miss the playoffs because of a single district loss. There is a slight variation depending whether playoff is a 12 team format with byes or a full field 16 but teams that make the playoffs and advance are generally more comparable the deeper you go in the playoffs(i.e. easier regular season, rested, etc. is of little benefit by the time you get 3 or more weeks deep in the playoffs). More relevant, at least in my opinion, is the nature of the program and the experience of the players. To use Salem and LT as examples. Other than getting a bead on quality of untested athletes, those schools as perennial playoff participants are ready to strap it on and go come playoff time regardless of the tests they may or may not have had during the regular season.

 

[shauntclair]

And by the end of the year their SOS went to 4th of 28 teams in 4A West and they won 13 in a row to finish out the season.

We can talk about this ad nauseum, but just go ahead and talk to the hands- the one with 8 rings weighing em down!!!!! WOOOO! Brother!

C'mon Mike. I talk regular season and you guys want to add post season to make yourselves feel better. I have given Salem every righteous kudo for what they have done in the post season.

My contention that you don't know who Salem actually is till the post season and that their path is far easier to get there and gives them a measurable advantage when they get there stands.

 

[shauntclair]

I think they meant that it didn't help them come playoff time. The best teams win state championships... that is why Blacksburg won in 3A despite losing a bunch of games to Roanoke area teams.

That's acceptable but I think Blacksburg was a severe exception. No one could have that one coming.

 

[southbottomU]

I am sure Salem fans appreciate the kudos but your premise is wrong. Salem is no different than any other upper echelon 4a school----Lake Taylor Dinwiddie and a few more These schools are markedly better than almost all of the schools in their district. The teams run up big margins of victory in most of their games---During the regular season Salem had two close games----same can be said of Lake Taylor and Dinwiddie. The upper echelon of D4 is in another league from the rest of D4 teams in all districts. They get a number of easy games

 

[mike salem]

C'mon Mike. I talk regular season and you guys want to add post season to make yourselves feel better. I have given Salem every righteous kudo for what they have done in the post season.

My contention that you don't know who Salem actually is till the post season and that their path is far easier to get there and gives them a measurable advantage when they get there stands.

The point of taking a path is to make it to the finish. Salem is landlocked with decent competition in the Roanoke & Lynchburg areas, that's who they play. The point of the regular season is to get prepared for the playoffs. When Salem has gotten to that point they have stepped up period.

Lake Taylor & Dinwiddie don't necessarily play a tougher schedule considering they have more competitive teams they could possibly play. So why do you continue to bring up this tired argument? I already pointed out that Courtland doesn’t play any tougher schedule and you chose to ignore that. Where has Courtland been the last 25 years or so? Why did they drop Massaponax and Riverbend? Chancellor didn't drop Massaponax or Riverbend and they play an improved Louisa squad and Liberty Bealeton who has struggled the last couple of years, but have good potential.


Salem and Dinwiddie have toughened their schedules, why did Courtland weaken theirs? The point of a regular season path is to get prepared for the playoff journey and to be ready when the time comes.

Other strong programs have difficulty filling a competitive OOD schedule because a lot of teams don't want to play Salem, Dinwiddie, Lake Taylor, etc...

The district schedule weakens everybody's SOS so your argument is pointless. Unless the VHSL eliminates district mandates then everyone is stuck playing inferior competition.

Teams find the best OOD games they can and depending upon availability and willingness for other teams to accept, that's who they play. Salem offered to play a number of great teams in the NOVA, Richmond, and Tidewater markets for this cycle and Dinwiddie was able to do so. I remember Devils saying something similar about them basically playing anyone anywhere. They had similar difficulty filling their OOD schedule last cycle.

You also have to take into consideration gate, travel expenses, with playoff points. Salem isn't taking an easy road just to have a chance for the title. They play whoever is in front of them and when it comes time for the playoffs they do a really good job there too.

The point of a path is to make it to the end of the trail! So you don't like the journey, matters not to the team holding the trophy. No one cares who played the strongest schedule at the end of the season, who's playing in December and who's getting sized for rings? I'm out, have at it Shauntclair.

 

[SpartanOfYore]

The Roanoke area was definitely stronger than the Seminole this year. Head to head and playoff runs show that. Just be careful using transitive property of opponents in sports to make arguments. In sports, styles make games, team A beat team B, team B beat team C, and team C beat team A. Comparing scores from one team's games versus different opponents is challenging because of matchups, scheme familiarity, plus many high school kids are wildly inconsistent performers. I don't like to think injuries play a big part because truly good teams can have their best player or a key player go down and have others step their game up or adjust their style of play some.

I believe the Seminole gets a lot of credit in a way similar to the SEC. They usually have 1 or 2 really strong teams competing for a championship, and the rest are nothing special. The last couple years have not had those real contenders though. But the key is it has been different schools having good runs. Not including LCA, 5 of 7 teams have won a state championship in the last 20 years (no JF or Glass), with Amherst and Brookville winning multiple. From 99 to 2012 (no title appearances since), the Seminole had a team play for a title 9 of 14 seasons going 8-4 in title games, which is an amazing run for one district and where I believe the reputation comes from.

However, the last few years have not been nearly that good and the best Lynchburg area teams have been the Altavista(could have challenged for 2A/3A title) and Appomattox(could have challenged for 3A/4A title) squads who both would have likely won the Seminole in their championship years.

Roanoke has had Salem as a consistent powerhouse, has two districts with teams from 3a to 6a. Northside jumped up and won 2 titles, and this year with Blacksburg, were the only non-Salem teams to win it all in 3a and up. Roanoke area is 9-5 in title games in last since 99 (and Salem won in 98) with title appearances in 11 of 18 years. 3 of 15 in the River ridge and Blue ridge combined have won titles.

That is key reputation stat 70% of fans can look back at a somewhat recent title versus 20%. The Seminole being the only district we consider Lynchburg area (Gretna won 2 titles in 3a as part of Dogwood and they are closer to Lynchburg than Pulaski to Roanoke) with more schools having had recent success and two separate districts in Roanoke area with Salem having had the bulk of the success.

Another good post. Just to clarify, there are no 6A schools left in Roanoke. Unless one includes Rocky Mount as "Roanoke-area", which IMO is a bit of a stretch. Patrick Henry was 6A for the first two years after VHSL reorganization, but dropped to 5A beginning in the fall of 2015. William Fleming has been 4A the past four years, but will bounce back up to 5A this fall. Franklin County is 6A, but they are a member of the Piedmont District, which definitely could not be construed as "Roanoke-area." So, while the Roanoke area did for a while have one district (the River Ridge) with schools ranging from 3A to 6A, this fall will mark three years since that has been the case where football is concerned.

 

[freeatlast2013]

He is just blowing smoke. Before we won these two titles he sang a different tune. In 2013 we were picked by him to lose to Fauquier county , Dominion and Woodgrove. We won 49-28, 52-26, and 42-25. He is just trying to agitate and we are to sensitive to it.

 

[shauntclair]

He is just blowing smoke. Before we won these two titles he sang a different tune. In 2013 we were picked by him to lose to Fauquier county , Dominion and Woodgrove. We won 49-28, 52-26, and 42-25. He is just trying to agitate and we are to sensitive to it.

I don't recall picking Faquier but I did pick Woodgrove and Dominion. I wasn't trying to agitate. That's who I thought would win. I made those choices because I knew Salem was good but their schedule didn't prove to me anything about how they would perform against quality opponents. They proved out.

 

[southbottomU]

But you were predisposed to make those picks. You knew a little about the football where you lived, and you thought it was good, but you knew nothing about Salem. The team has enjoyed giving you an education.