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Thoughts on KW/K&Q 77-0 rout

Nov 19, 2010
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I am a huge supporter of King William Cavalier Football. I am a huge supporter of the kids developing their skills. I want to see them be successful on and off the field. What I am not a big supporter of is being up 48-0 and going for a 2pt conversion, or being up 50-0 going into the half and not letting your 2nd string play the rest of the game. Running up the score on a team that is struggling to begin with is nothing to brag about. But not putting your 2nd string in till the 4th quarter during that game is absurd. The AD and some of the coaches should be ashamed of themselves. After the game Friday night, I was ashamed.. To beat a team 77-0 and have your 2nd string QB only throw a handful of times is.... its embarrassing. Especially after the comments that were made in the local paper the previous week or earlier in the week I cant remember. Either way, KW goes to Strasburg this weekend with a WEAK 8-2 record, the staff better prepare these kids.
 
I agree 100%, I think I was more irritated with the fact that they went for a 2pt conversion when it was 48-0. Jones did go down in the 2nd quarter, Huffman came in (QB2) and threw a 35yd TD, then they pulled him only to put Jones back in.
 
And people wonder why I have a hard time supporting KW football right now. Its not the kids. Its some of these coaches. There's a reason why other coaching staffs don't care for them that much and its stuff like this and the quote in the newspaper that's why. I'm glad others are starting to see what I've seen for a couple years and are speaking out. Nothing will change however until the administration is changed and we get rid of some of the coaches. I'll always support the kids of KW but I can't support a coaching staff that thinks its ok to run the score up on weak teams and then when they play real teams the roles are reversed.
 
I am not a fan of coaches running up the score. It has a serious affect on the opposing players...who are just teenagers. Now if you are winning, making subs, and just running and your 2nd and 3rd teams are scoring that is different. I am told something similar happened this past week with Bluestone and Randolph Henry. RH kept throwing and giving the ball to their UVA commit even well into the 4th quarter and up by 7 td's. By halftime Bluestone was on their 5th string QB due to injuries. The 1st three were hurt in the game and the other was already out. Why throw deep bombs and go for two when you are already up by 7 td's and see the other team is struggling to finish. It amazes me how coaches complain when they are getting the score run up on them, but then don't hesitate to do so to others.
 
Running vs. Throwing


I understand what you are saying.

But many Gurus say that "running the ball" is best way to score and win games, yet when teams throw ball when leading, they get accused of running up score. Where is the "line drawn" ?
 
How long has this current coaching staff been at KW? Also, what offense do they run these days?
 
If you're bringing in your backups and running the ball and they don't stop it that's one thing. But when in a game against Middlesex when you're already up by 65 and your starting rb scores the TD to put you up by 72 or when you're up on WP 49-6 with 15 seconds to go and you put your starters back in to try and score that's absurd. And this is coming from one of their biggest supporters. I've been going to KW games since I was 7 years old and have been a poster on here for years and I've never seen the program the way it is now. I picked them to win this week but it wouldn't surprise me if they lost and if they do happen to win this week then they'll be the ones on the wrong side of a blowout if they play Riverheads.
 
Look I understand some of the things being said (not going for two), but lets be real about the competition they are being forced to play. I am not sure if you can deny playing your district but they should. The Tidewater district is WAY down this year. I am talking about the worst teams in the state of Virginia playing in one district that KW is in. What are they supposed to do? I'm not positive, but the only teams left out of the 1A playoffs were all in the Tidewater. How do you expect the coaches to prepare them for the playoffs? So you are telling me that for the last 5 games of their season, they should call a different offensive gameplan then they are going to use in the playoffs, and take out all their starters by halftime? Then once the playoffs start, expect to just turn it up in a close game on the road? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I am not a fan of running up the score, but King William should be allowed to play their starters to get them ready for the playoffs. Be supportive of your team, why would you come with this discussion right before a big game? You know them same teenagers are reading this, and you are doubting their coaching staff right before a playoff game? Doesn't make sense to me.

This post was edited on 11/10 6:39 PM by riversportsfan
 
Re: Running vs. Throwing

Hows this....Giles has played their second and third string in every game this year but one....9 out of 10....you condition your team all summer and practice....and when you let the second team get experience you will be glad you did when a starter goes down...plus if a starter gets hurt when you have a big lead how does it really look...not to mention when the shoe is on the other foot you might regret it.....it shows class not to run it up and let the guys that show up all summer but just aren't good enough to start, play their best, and feel like kings of Friday night...lets those parents see their young men make a play...at Giles I would imagine a second teamer hearing the horn on a big play or hit they make, is something that just might make two a days worth it....its just right......GO GILES
 
twice this year

Our starters have played less than 15 plays and we were still accused of running up the score
 
Re: twice this year

And I know for a fact that KW 2nd and 3rd stringers have played in 8 out of there 10 games. Sometimes the subs playing more plays than the starters. King William isn't that strong this year and these games get out of hand so quick. When you are scoring the first play on offense and kicking off to them and immediately force a turnover to take in for a score. And that happens play after play till you are in the 50s and 60s and even 70s in the second quarter. To be honest, they get nothing from theses games. They would actually get more out of splitting there guys up on Friday and play a 4 quarter 12 minute game against themselves. I love the Tidewater area and I have seen all of them schools be competitive, but its just not the case right now. No offense.
 
Originally posted by KWCavs06:
I am a huge supporter of King William Cavalier Football. I am a huge supporter of the kids developing their skills. I want to see them be successful on and off the field. What I am not a big supporter of is being up 48-0 and going for a 2pt conversion, or being up 50-0 going into the half and not letting your 2nd string play the rest of the game. Running up the score on a team that is struggling to begin with is nothing to brag about. But not putting your 2nd string in till the 4th quarter during that game is absurd. The AD and some of the coaches should be ashamed of themselves. After the game Friday night, I was ashamed.. To beat a team 77-0 and have your 2nd string QB only throw a handful of times is.... its embarrassing. Especially after the comments that were made in the local paper the previous week or earlier in the week I cant remember. Either way, KW goes to Strasburg this weekend with a WEAK 8-2 record, the staff better prepare these kids.
There is a fine line between running up the score and preparing your kids to be successful in the next game. How do you expect a coach to prepare his kids if they aren't getting any reps because their opponent is that bad? I have no problem with a coach leaving his starters in the game until halftime of a week 7-10 game regardless of the score. The KW coach's job is to try to prepare his kids to be successful in the playoffs. I dare say that if they get beat in the first round of the playoffs every year because they haven't played more than a few series in a game in 4 or 5 weeks, eventually the Cavalier fans will call for his head.

I agree that in the 2nd half, it is time to call off the dogs and let every kid on the team play. If those 2nd and 3rd team kids score, then there is not much else you can do. At that point it comes down to the question of scheduling. What does KW get from playing those schools and why do they still play them. Districts are meaningless anymore, so there is no playoff benefit. The AD should find more competitive teams for them to play, even if that means playing bigger schools and occasionally taking one on the chin.
 
As GHS89er said, Giles has had 2nd team and JV players in a number a games this year with the exception being Cburg and Galax games. Typically first team will play the first half but sometimes not all of that if its a 40 pt difference and then plays the first series of the 2nd half. You've got to get them reps. 2nd team and JV will play after that. The 2nd teamers work hard and JV is your future and they deserve to play as well. We have had games where we took a knee in the red zone late in games to keep from scoring. I think that can be embarrasing to the other team also but at that point you've got the running clock and the team suffering the beat down just wants to get it over with. Glenvar had most of its first team in Friday night until the last series in the 4th quarter even though they were down 33-0 and obviousy weren't going to make a comeback and they are 4 seed in the playoffs. Just don't understand the thought of leaving the first team guys in the game and chance them getting hurt and possibly not being available the next week. Most of us at the 2A level don't have the luxury of backups that can step right in if necessary.
 
totally agree there bulldog1150


bulldog1150 said it well.

I understand what all are saying and all are valid points. It is a tough current situation for the KW coaches - (darned if you, darned if you don't kind of spot they are in).

Add at least 2 very tough opponents (3 to 5A or strong 1, 2As) that will most likely be losses. Hey, helps down the road. Look at 1A Essex - lost to 2A power Goochland and 3A power JM. Still got the #1 1A East seed over two 10-0 teams. Even if they didn't get that top seed, still in better position down the road than without those games. It also helped that the NND was very strong overall.

Of course, its not KW's fault that the other Tidewater teams were the worst probably in its history. Not sure what happened with Middlesex this season, they looked good last year for example.

This is a scheduling issue, only way to correct dilemma facing the coaches. Hope that the coach has some input there if possible.
 
Re: totally agree there bulldog1150

What makes it worse is the arrogance shown by the coaches and trust me they are by far the least popular coaching staff in the area. Yes they can't help that the district is weak. But to have your starters in when you're up by 70 is ridiculous. Calling timeout with 15 seconds to go to bring your starters back in is even worse. Not to mention the players and several parents were overheard after the Middlesex game that the starters should have been allowed to go back in to break the school record of 85 points. What are they teaching these kids? So many people are aware of how they're doing things. Its not just a few people. But when you have former greats from this school talking about it as well then that says a lot. This is nothing against these kids and this isn't something that just popped up as its been discussed in other social media platforms for awhile now. Football is also a lot about life lessons and these coaches are setting the wrong example. Like the Giles fan said a lot of games they pull their starters in the second quarter. Other teams do as well. I've been a long time poster on here and have always been one of KWs biggest supporters but the actions by this staff the last couple years leaves a lot to be desired.
 
The coach is nothing but a puppet for the AD who really runs things there and is also the defensive coordinator. He has no clue how to call a game when facing good teams. Yes some young coaches are successful but at 25 or so he is in over his head. This is the opinion of tons of people although don't all of them speak out publicly.
 
I personally do not like calling out the coaches before a playoff game, even if it has been going on all season on facebook or any other social media. This coaching staff looks a lot different then when I used to play under Coach Brookes, but I do know they put in the time and effort and do right by the kids. I do not know the coach and AD situation as some claim to know, but I have seen coaches of all ages be in over their head. Good Luck Cavs!! Go get that W!!

This post was edited on 11/11 8:22 AM by riversportsfan

This post was edited on 11/11 1:36 PM by riversportsfan
 
I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan


You know what is really embarrassing. When grown people get on a social media outlet to bash the coaches for their former and/or local high school team before a playoff game. You use login names that would give the impression you are former King William alumnus. Why in the Hades would you bash the team NOW? If you are so KW PROUD keep your thoughts off forms of media where the young…YOUNG boys who are actually playing the game this Friday can read this. If you care about the BOYS then don't put this type of stuff up on the boards now. It is about young boys representing the commnuntiy giving it their all.



I understand it is free speech. If you want to bash KW football then use another login name so you don't appear to be associated with KW. The enemy from within is always the worst. If you truly care about KW than support the boys.





IMO the bottom line is there is certain small, vocal part of the KW community won't be happy until Roger Brookes or one of his former coaches is the head coach regardless of how the current coach is doing. People get over yourself.




The fact it the three young head coaches that have taken over since Roger left all have matched Brookes winning percentage. Yes, they have not won state but that happened only once in thirty years under Roger. Remove that ONE season and the young coaches are on par with winning percentage during the Brookes era. The community should appreciate their efforts but there has been some group in the community that has wanted to get each one fired while they were there. The current coach, Just, and Henderson. Keeping on acting like a bunch of Texas high school cheerleading moms and see if you continue to get good coaches there. Coaches don't want to deal with a rabid fan base that does not even appreciate when they are winning. Perhaps the people who are unhappy with the current coach should remember when they went after Just the team galvanized around him and supported him. Google that it was in the newspaper.




I played for Roger. Nothing but respect for the man. I am not going to consider myself one of the "great players" of KW past. That is arrogant and who really cares. I had my turn. Won a lot of games with Roger but now it is these young men a chance to play. SUPPORT THEM don't weaken the troops with internet gossip and bs.





If you have a problem with the final score fine but don't mess with the players heads by acting like an internet Skip Bayless of your former high school athletic teams while the season is going.






One thought to consider when Roger ran the double wing the game was very physical. If you got a lead of 20 or some points you would pull your starters to save them from taking extra hits. With the modern day spread it is more about timing and rhythm then pure brute force of running over you. The team had to get the reps in order to be ready for the playoffs. It is tragic that the Tidewater district is so down but that is not KW fault. If KW lost in the first round of the playoffs year after year people will be screaming about that.











This post was edited on 11/11 8:41 AM by Stone Cold Cav




This post was edited on 11/11 8:42 AM by Stone Cold Cav



This post was edited on 11/11 8:46 AM by Stone Cold Cav


This post was edited on 11/11 8:49 AM by Stone Cold Cav

This post was edited on 11/11 9:10 AM by Stone Cold Cav
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan

I definitely respect and understand what you are saying. I was there before, read these exact forums every week to see what people were saying about my team and how we were gonna do in the up coming weeks. It's just frustrating to see/hear some of the things that go on and yet we (fans/supporters) have to sit back and hold our tongue. At what point do we say, "Enough is enough." Explain to me, in what reason should a coach be going for a two point conversion when the score is 48-0 in the second quarter? They say that "Sportsmanship is a given" but how is that sportsmanlike? I hope KW goes in there friday night and gives em hell, I hope they run deep in the 2A playoffs this year, but it doesn't change my views on what I saw friday night and what I have seen all season long.

This post was edited on 11/11 9:22 AM by KWCavs06
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan

These are young boys. They are not pros or NCAA. This is high school. Do what all the parents use to do when they complained about Roger...go to the parking lot, 7-11, Food Lion. I can't tell you how many dads would be huddled around the back of truck talking about a loss. When the boys came along they shut up. Old school Respect.

If you care about the boys don't plant a seed of doubt.
This post was edited on 11/11 9:22 AM by Stone Cold Cav
 
Here's the thing though, we arent talking about a loss, we are talking about a win, a 77-0 butchering to a team that doesnt have enough subs to man a 2nd string. I PERSONALLY, am talking about the 2pt conversion what was went for when it was 48-0. Or the fact that the second string OFFENSE saw MAYBE 3 minutes of playing time. It's absurd.
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan

And trust me its not just a small group of people. I supported Just and Henderson and hated to see both go. But its not just team moms as you say or all Roger Brookes guys either. When I see or talk to people every day who say the same thing I do then I know its not just me. Heck when you have some of the best players to ever wear a KW uniform say that they hate the way the program is headed then that says a lot. If it was just a small group then maybe you could say oh they're just disgruntled but when you have tons and tons of people who feel the same way then maybe its time to look in the mirror because obviously more then a few feathers have been ruffled.
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan


Thanks for supporting the players while they are still playing. It is clear you are more interested in your cause then the support of the young men actually playing on Friday.

Your viewpoints could wait until the post season. You should not call yourself a supporter of these young men.

This post was edited on 11/11 9:46 AM by Stone Cold Cav
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan

If myself or others didn't care about these young men we wouldn't say a word. The fact is the ones who are supposed to be setting examples for them as coaches are letting them down. Thinking its ok to embarrassing your opponents or run up the score or things like that. Like I said this is something that so many people see but obviously the coaches have their heads so far in the clouds they are the only ones who can't see it. And yes I will continue to support the kids like I always have as will the others. We don't need your permission on anyone else's for that.
 
I'm confused, was I just called a "non supporter" because I speak my mind? I get that the kids read these forums, I would hope that they dont mistake my outspoken thoughts towards the coaches as a negative thought towards THEM AS A TEAM. You're clearly missing my point, and to further prove that, please explain to me why its ok to go for a 2pt conversion when the score is 48-0.
 
Re: I am KW CAV FB alum and I disagree with kwhs95fan


Never said you needed my permission.

Instead of posting on a forum why don't you actually get from behind the keyboard and go see the AD or school board member without letting the cyber-universe know about it if you care so much. It is easy to be be keyboard tough guy. Go voice your concern to someone in authority. If you feel that strong about it.
 
When you are on the team....the coach is one of your teammates also. Knocking the leader is a hit on the pack. Basic team buidling stuff there. You guys are treating these high school football team like they are the Washington Redskins.


I am so glad this social media stuff was not around when I played.
 
Still nothing for the 2pt conversion?

I'm done, I do care about the players, I do want them to focus on the task at hand, that being Strasburg, I DONT want them to be distracted by off the field issues. GO CAVS!!!!
 
It's easy to look good against a heavily inferior opponent. Look good against those on your level or even above you. Then you're going somewhere.
 
Stone Cold Cav your responses have been spot perfect.Being a supporter in the community who has followed Cavalier since the 70's when we were Black and Gold. The post about the coaches is horrible and you may think you are helping something, you are hurting it. My question is have you ever been to a KW football practice.I have, as an Old Timer, watched the teaching going on its fast pace no down time. They are getting alot out of the kids. I see no discipline problems, I see kids who love to play football. Sitting at one of their practices gave me the impression that these guys are giving there all for these kids. I don't no what you nay-sayers are seeing or stirring up but this Old Timer is fed up.You don't like what you see because have an issue with a coach or coaches take to the school board because my LARGE BAND of KW greats will be there in support of those coaches. LEADERSHIP starts with LOYALTY, and Im loyal to the BLACK and Gold no matter who the Captain is. Now for you KWHS FAN 96 grow up, you didn't play then and you can't play now. Shut up my grandson was on your Raiders team stop it there. For KWHS 06 you didn't even play so go back to playing Madden. I'm finished let the kids play and the coaches coach keep your thoughts to your self. Pitts off. Oh Bowhunter we need to meet to have that sausage and egg biscuit at Scotts sometime.
 
Well I guess you haven't seen the kids fighting amongst themselves or pushing or cussing the coaches. As for who played and didn't play I'm pretty sure Stone Cold Cav was on the bench more than the water. But when superstars of KWs past who say the same thing. But if you think running the score up is fine or bringing your first string back in with 15 seconds to go then you're just as bad as the new school guys. But bring whoever you want to the school board I'm sure you'll be outnumbered. I'm not saying anymore on this. The people of KW know how things are and aren't gonna stand for it much longer
 
After speaking with my brother, who was a player during the Brooke's State Championship era from 97-00 I believe is when he went to KWHS, He agreed with Stone Cold Cav in saying, "at the point when it was 48-0 nothing, they were just practicing "in game" situations. He also agreed me in stating that the second string should have been put in, but dont talk bad about the team.

I want to reiterate something, I respect and support the KIDS 100%, and I want them to go out there and perform 100%. At the end of the day, I support the team and I will stand behind them, me posting this, was it bad timing? Probably so. I should have thought about the timing when posting this, however it doesnt change my opinion. I look forward to the playoffs, and as far as next season with a new QB under center, and a new team. I wont be posting on this anymore after this.
 
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