Trial date set for LCA's suit against VHSL

[pioneer94]

I would like to see this resolved without a trial.

http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/jury-trial-set-for-fall-in-lca-s-suit-asking/article_b4253046-9205-11e4-8b6e-8b309049afe9.html

 

[mike salem]

Thanks for posting Pioneer, I had kind of forgotten about this issue. I hope they resolve this before football starts again. The justice system is notoriously slow as is demonstrated here by the time between suit and trial being 16 months.

 

[numb3rs]

Of course, a brief newspaper article isn't necessarily going to provide a complete or even accurate summary of the legal case, but LCA's argument seems very weak to me. LCA can play VHSL schools in the regular season and reap the financial rewards if fans want to see those games. There's no obstacle to that now. If more VHSL schools don't want to play LCA, competitive reasons are most likely or LCA's incorrect about the likely attendance.

At the same time, I'm not sure that the VHSL can legally exclude private schools just because they're private. However, I would say that they can define ostensibly neutral rules relating to player eligibility (recruiting, attendance zones, etc.) that nearly all private schools will be unwilling to abide by.

 

[wikki]

I hope they lose, but if they get in, understandably they should have to follow every single rule that all the public schools have to. Rocco said there is no good reason to refuse to allow them to compete. There are many reasons that everyone knows about. They are greedy as well, they have all the money they can get and the best facilities and they still want more. He also said, can you imagine the annual Jefferson Forest/Glass matchup, city stadium would be standing room only. Apparently he has not attended one game at City Stadium, far from it. He just wants to prove that LCA can beat most and they should because of the recruits they get and the weight room they have. If they win, probably will not happen at least until the next 2 year cycle is up. What district would they be in? What numbers will they be classified as?

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

The length of time before trial puzzles me. Biggest issue with this deal is LCA has no attendance zone, which is the most important rule in the VHSL Policy Manual. This prevents recruiting by high schools in most cases, though some schools do recruit.

 

[blue bomber]

I don't think the VHSL's policy manual will have any effect on this ruling when it does finally happen. I think it will be the final opinion of those responsible in the court. Do they think it's the right thing to do, or the wrong thing. I'm not sure any present guideline will have anything to do with it, but should this come to pass, I do believe there will need to be some stipulation about how that school acquires its athletes. For instance, if you make them a member of the Seminole District, and they recruit a player from a Seminole school to play for them, and against his public school, I'm not sure I wouldn't refuse to play the game. Somehow for this to work, there must be a level playing field, but that said, the private school thing is constantly gaining momentum for a lot of very solid reasons, so the future in this area is at best uncertain.

 

[AMHERST #1]

Seems to me it be hard to prove recruiting. I could see parents sending there kids to certain schools be them private or public. To get a better chance of being coached an seen by college's. Not saying there's no recruiting but it pretty easy to cover tracks.

An private schools do have advantage since the have no zone an your not gonna get them in a zone. As they need a bigger area since you have to pay to attend. Best thing is to figure a formula for enrollment. A private school that has 2A enrollment might end up in 3 or 4 A ect.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Very good post guys, and Wikki, especially numb3rs.

I'll have to leave the fact finding to someone else, but I think these are a few of the questions that have to be researched.

Assuming that LCA's claim that 47 states permit essentially what LCA is demanding, are all 47 of these state's "high school leagues" governed by a charter closely identical to the VHSL's?

How have these 47 organizations addressed the inevitable differences in school attendance zones?

The same question concerning active recruiting and incentives offered by private institutions, has to be examined before it can be claimed by LCA that "47 states have found a way to permit private and publics to coexist in the same local leagues". Creditable evidence supporting this contention will have to be produced.

If LCA should prevail on the question of "illegally denied membership", the question of damages based upon past denial, will have to be proven. This calculation of damages is extremely subjective, at best. What basis for calculating such damages would be utilized?

Is there a precedent that closely parallels this litigation? What was the outcome.

Can the VHSL counter sue LCA for cost of defending this suit, should the verdict go in favor of the VHSL?


Hopefully there is someone that frequents this forum with time to do a little research. And legal opinions from someone with knowledge of the law would be sweet.

DP

 

[GilliamRatings]

Yep, I vote hard to hammer them on every possible rule if they got in. You simply can't have a league with two different sets of rules. If one kid gets recruited and plays, they forfeit all their games, or else you make it open season for recruiting all over the state. Public schools virtually can't win anything in the other states (private schools end up existing where their unstated mission goal is to be good a lacrosse, etc.). We already can't stay on the court with the basketball teams.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Hey, private school football is good. They had the All-Metro player of the year as a junior at Benedictine in Richmond. They don't need the public schools. That's kind of the point of private schools, isn't it.

There's some reason the other private schools don't want to play LCA, so they're trying to get the courts to force somebody to play them.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

Does LCA find it impossible to fill their football schedule. Is that the real and only motive, as you say? For sure, it has nothing to do with revenue.

I can't think of any other reason for them to go to the trouble.

 

[86GENERALS]

Re: The reason nobody here is interested is

LCA will try to get your talent with offers of tuition and a chance to play at LU or atleast a look from LU.LCA also can have you play an extra year of high school I think but don't quote me on that.I know our baseball team won't play them for that reason....

This post was edited on 1/4 9:08 PM by 86GENERALS

 

[cutnjump]

Typical puff PR piece in the local Lynchburg rag. Rocco's a clueless idiot if he thinks City stadium is going to be packed or that the majority of the public supports LCA's admission to the VHSL. It is also surprising they would opt for a jury trial but, I guess they are hoping to fill the jury box with Thomas Road Baptist members. The VHSL is historically very good in court and while Winston and Strawn is a reputable national firm McGuire Woods will be able to hold its own with no trouble should it actually reach that point. It will be interesting to watch local school systems in Virginia line up in response to this suit.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Currently the biggest problem with VHSL schools playing LCA, is you get no VHSL points for ratings. This rule should be tweaked in my opinion.
If points were awarded for playing private schools, some would go and find the weakest ones in the state to insure an easy win. But LCA is better than the average school, thus when a team plays LCA they are playing a good opponent, and in my opinion should receive points.
I recall the 2 seasons Gretna played LCA. LCA was probably the best team Gretna played all season.

 

[cutnjump]

Getting no points from LCA is a minimal issue at best. The denominator for calculating the rating scale points is division by one less game and even if they were to count for points you would have an issue with determining rider points. LCA would probably warrant 3A points at best based on their talent but, that really isn't the issue either. The issue with including LCA in the VHSL is the matter of a level playing field if they participate, adherence to already prescribed VHSL rules and regulations and the CHOICE that LCA previously made to be a private institution. If they want to participate in the VHSL they should be compelled to comply with existing and future VHSL rules and regulations and should be classified as a 6A program to account for the lack of a clearly delineated attendance zone.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

The number of high school students determines classification.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I am a TRBC member and I would gladly sit on jury if called.

 

[cutnjump]

The question is whether you would participate on the jury as a loyal TRBC member or a reputable, responsible and, most importantly, impartial citizen of the Commonwealth. It is highly unlikely there are enough juror challenges to remove all TRBC members from a potential jury pool.

 

[cutnjump]

Yes number of students do determine classification but, there would in all likelihood need to be some kind of adjustment to account for no specifically delineated attendance zone. If it were to come to that I am sure there are models already tested in the other 47 states that have supposedly made it work.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Some schools now have a large attendance zone, but not a lot of students live in that defined zone, where as some schools have small zones, but a lot of students live in it.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I would be a good jury member because I am very familiar with both VHSL and private schools. Most people are probably one sided, one way are the other.

 

[cutnjump]

Being familiar with both sides would be a positive in my opinion but, that isn't the determining criteria in whether you would be a good jury member. There is still that little nagging question of impartiality and your TRBC membership would at least raise a question. So what do you see as the real issues? What do you see as equitable remedies for either side?
This post was edited on 1/5 11:33 AM by cutnjump

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Before I could have an opinion as to yes/no, I'd have to hear the LCA lawyer address the attendance zone issue, as it's defined IAW VHSL Policy Manual. That is biggest roadblock in my eyes.
Attendance zones prevent schools from recruiting most of the time. We all know some public schools recruit athletes who do not live in their zone.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Currently it helps you to play a private school because it doesn't change your rating at all regardless of what happens, but it means that there is one less chance for your opponents to get rider points if they play you. So there is actually an incentive to play private schools.

 

[GilliamRatings]

Nope, that doesn't work. I can open an all male private school with 30 students, recruit 3 all-Americans in basketball and destroy anyone in Virginia. 1A through 6A.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I have never thought f it that way. I like for everyone to play 10 games that count, and let points add up as they may.

 

[pioneer94]

It may be of benefit to one school scheduling LCA, but it could penalize a group of schools. My guess is LCA would like play a Seminole schedule and that could really hurt some of Seminole teams. When the suit first came up I did the math for Heritage. The Pioneers being undefeated in the regular season in 2013 made it a little easier. If the Pioneers had replaced Lee with LCA and defeated the Bulldiogs and if LCA had finished around .500 (I think I used 3-4, which I think is fair) against the Seminole teams and Heritage lost all the rider points for those associated games the Pioneers' rating fell by 0.9 points. Losing nearly a full point off your rating is a pretty big swing. Now I know the Seminole teams wouldn't have come together and scheduled LCA even if they were going to earn points for playing the Bulldogs, but not figuring out a way to at least allow for that opportunity without penalty is unfair and unfair not just to LCA. I know it would require a little more work and I know it would never be perfect, but if the VHSL can figure out a way to give teams points for playing out of state schools they certainly can do it for playing LCA.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

The nine game deal bit Dinwiddie a little, year before last. Phoebus ended the season with a magionally higher rating, and thus the #1 seed. I think the 10th game would have made just enough difference to slide them to #2. Of course, in the end, Kings Fork made it a non issue.

I'm a little suprised on the choice of a jury trial, too. But thinking about it, LCA wants the emotional aspect to come into play.

Hey soleseeker, how about chiming in? You have a good perspective on this type of stuff.

And, along those lines, I wonder if anyone will enter legislation this year for the Tim Tebow bill?

 

[pioneer94]

I don't think it was a puff piece. It looks like Ben gave the VHSL the opportunity to present its side and didn't get much help from them.

This post was edited on 1/5 2:29 PM by pioneer94

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I would bet the farm that Rob Bell will introduce the bill again. I would rather see LCA in VHSL than see home schoolers playing for high schools they do not attend. At least all LCA athletes go to school there.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Recruiting has no place in high school athletics.


If truth be known every basketball player at "certain" schools probably was recruited by another high school while in HS. By the same token there was probably some NCAA rule violated when they were recruited off their AAU team.
Basketball is a highly unethical sport for highly recruited D1 players at certain schools.

 

[DinwiddieProud]

I agee fully with you there on the recruiting in basketball, HR6. It knows no bounds.

I'm out of time until tonight, but here is a question to ponder. What takes place if LCA prevails? Same question, if the Tebow bill passes. Please, not emotional responses, but what changes will we see in the next few years if both of these become law? How will affect all sports competitions?

 

[cutnjump]

No smart and reasonable attorney is going to speak or encourage their client to speak in a newspaper article about ongoing litigation unless they are fishing, hoping to counter negative public opinion or achieve some other tactical advantage. Do you believe that the News/Advance is going to be objective regarding the single biggest organization driving the Lynchburg economy and probably a significant portion of its revenue?

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

basically I think recruiting will become fair game state wide. A vast majority of schools will actively recruit from other schools. All home schoolers will be free agents.

 

[cutnjump]

Personally, if you want the public school experience you should be subject to the entire experience, including all rules and regs, not just an ala carte menu where you pick and choose. There'a already enough challenge in enforcing the regs as is without adding another layer of difference/subjectivity.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

Very true.

LCA does have a somewhat legimate case, but Tebow Bill is completely off base. If little Johnny wants to play for the high school in his neighborhood, then his parents should enroll him there. That's very simple.

 

[cutnjump]

Until they actually state their argument as well as hoped for equitable remedies clearly in a court of law it is hard to say whether they have even a somewhat legitimate case. At present, I don't see the suit with much substantive difference from the Tebow Bill even factoring in the bricks and mortar and independent classroom schedules.

 

[Hampton Roads 6]

I think LCA's law firm knows something that the VHSL nor the average poster on VirginiaPreps doesn't know, thus that's why they're taking it to court. Regardless of outcome, someone is gonna have to fork over $$$$$ for legal bills.

 

[cutnjump]

LCA's law firm knows that LCA and its parent can afford to pay those legal bills. I would certainly hope they know more than the average poster on Virginia Preps, otherwise, LCA could get a similar return by taking a stack of bills and burning them at a bonfire, the paganistic ritual notwithstanding. As far as what the VHSL and its legal counsel know or believe they can defend remains to been seen, however, their legal track record is pretty solid. Never forget the VHSL actually has its founding roots in forensics/debate. ;-)

 

[pioneer94]

I don't doubt the that VHSL was advised not to say anything, but if no one from the VHSL is willing to say anything beyond the statement that was released that makes it pretty difficult for the reporter to do much more than he did. I am not attorney and I assume the reporter isn't either wouldn't want to try to speak for or try to speculate about VHSL's position.

I do expect them to be objective and for the most part they have been. I think it largely depends on the issue and the reporter. At times the relationship has been outright adversarial. There have been plenty of dust-ups between the N&A and LU/LCA. It was just a couple of years ago that LU's sports department was briefly ordered not to grant interviews with the N&A reporters. They had a sports reporter travel to Norfolk to cover a basketball only to be told that coach couldn't do a post game interview.