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District Rankings

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How would you rank districts in our area?
My vote...
1. Seminole (very balanced and tough)
2. Dogwood (similar to seminole)
(multiple state tiles for the top two districts)
3. Blue Ridge (very tough, need to finish in the state title games however)
4. River Ridge (not as strong as it has been in the past, Salem Spartans are the bulk of the success)
5. Three Rivers (good solid lower level football)
6. Piedmont (weak considering the size of the schools, struggle with the top 4 districts)
7. Valley (very weak, decent football however)
 
How would you rank districts in our area?
My vote...
1. Seminole (very balanced and tough)
2. Dogwood (similar to seminole)
(multiple state tiles for the top two districts)
3. Blue Ridge (very tough, need to finish in the state title games however)
4. River Ridge (not as strong as it has been in the past, Salem Spartans are the bulk of the success)
5. Three Rivers (good solid lower level football)
6. Piedmont (weak considering the size of the schools, struggle with the top 4 districts)
7. Valley (very weak, decent football however)
Define “our” area, since this is *supposed* to be a board about the entire state....
 
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Define “our” area, since this is *supposed* to be a board about the entire state....

Sorry for the confusion. I'm talking mainly about the Timesland area (Roanoke Times) give or take a few districts. I don't know much about other districts besides those but any insight on other districts is welcome.
 
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Define “our” area, since this is *supposed* to be a board about the entire state....

I'd say SWD and M7 would both be near top of any district ranking. Between Graham, Richland s, Union and Ridgeview, at least one will be a factor inn the postseason
 
Dogwood has had a team in state title game in either 1A or 2A 14 of the last 16 years. Of the teams in the Dogwood you have had state titles from Appomattox, Gretna, William Campbell, and Altavista in football. Dan River chips in the fact they have 3 guys playing on Sundays right now. I do believe Gretna, Campbell, Chatham, and very soon (looking at Mr Thornhill) have all had players on either NFL rosters, practice squads, etc. Advocate there may have been some Raiders to do the same that I just don’t remember right off top of my head, Nelson I’m not sure but feel they’re are some good football alumni too that have made contributions, I know DeLane Fitzgerald, head coach at Frostburg State, (top ten DIII school) is a Nelson alum. Plus just add up all the great coaches who have had their time at Dogwood schools! Sorry for being a homer but Dogwood and Seminole are just very impressive
 
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Dogwood has had a team in state title game in either 1A or 2A 14 of the last 16 years. Of the teams in the Dogwood you have had state titles from Appomattox, Gretna, William Campbell, and Altavista in football. Dan River chips in the fact they have 3 guys playing on Sundays right now. I do believe Gretna, Campbell, Chatham, and very soon (looking at Mr Thornhill) have all had players on either NFL rosters, practice squads, etc. Advocate there may have been some Raiders to do the same that I just don’t remember right off top of my head, Nelson I’m not sure but feel they’re are some good football alumni too that have made contributions, I know DeLane Fitzgerald, head coach at Frostburg State, (top ten DIII school) is a Nelson alum. Plus just add up all the great coaches who have had their time at Dogwood schools! Sorry for being a homer but Dogwood and Seminole are just very impressive

That first sentence is very impressive.
 
The best football in Va per capita, per size, man for man, is played in Central Va. It's not NOVA, its not SWVA, its not the Tidewater or Richmond or in the Valley. It's there in the Dogwood and Seminole district areas around central Va. I'm a Tidewater Homer, but even I will admit that. Its only my opinion.

I'm not saying Appo beats Robinson Secondary or Hampton or Oscar Smith, but if you combine the schools around Appo to give them the same or similar size population as a Div 5 or Div 6 school, and let them choose from 1500, 2000, or 2500 students, then yes..........I'm saying Robinson or Westfield, or Oscar Smith loses on most years. Size for size, these two districts are ridicously good and there's no debating the numbers. Again, only my opinion
 
That first sentence is very impressive.
Just nuts to think about really

Appomattox 15, 16, 17 champs
Altavista 13, 14 champs
2012 off year
Gretna 11 champs 10 runner up
Altavista 09 champs
Gretna 07/08 champs
2006 off year
William Campbell 2005 champs
Gretna 03/04 Champs
William Campbell 02 Champs
In certain years the district was just crazy with talented teams and loaded.

2005 for example we said WC State champs but they did it 3 Losses, 2 coming to Dogwood foes Chatham and Gretna who went a combined 20-3
 
The best football in Va per capita, per size, man for man, is played in Central Va. It's not NOVA, its not SWVA, its not the Tidewater or Richmond or in the Valley. It's there in the Dogwood and Seminole district areas around central Va. I'm a Tidewater Homer, but even I will admit that. Its only my opinion.

I'm not saying Appo beats Robinson Secondary or Hampton or Oscar Smith, but if you combine the schools around Appo to give them the same or similar size population as a Div 5 or Div 6 school, and let them choose from 1500, 2000, or 2500 students, then yes..........I'm saying Robinson or Westfield, or Oscar Smith loses on most years. Size for size, these two districts are ridicously good and there's no debating the numbers. Again, only my opinion

I would pay good money and travel to see Westfield vs. Dogwood Allstars. This would make a great benefit game.
 
The best football in Va per capita, per size, man for man, is played in Central Va. It's not NOVA, its not SWVA, its not the Tidewater or Richmond or in the Valley. It's there in the Dogwood and Seminole district areas around central Va. I'm a Tidewater Homer, but even I will admit that. Its only my opinion.

I'm not saying Appo beats Robinson Secondary or Hampton or Oscar Smith, but if you combine the schools around Appo to give them the same or similar size population as a Div 5 or Div 6 school, and let them choose from 1500, 2000, or 2500 students, then yes..........I'm saying Robinson or Westfield, or Oscar Smith loses on most years. Size for size, these two districts are ridicously good and there's no debating the numbers. Again, only my opinion

Dont know much about those bigger schools except the fact that they are powerhouses, and I have thought about this in the past with all the success that Augusta County schools have had, but one thing you didn't mention that could derail those ideas is the mentality of kids.

There is a reason why you have the schools that have more athletic skills that anyone they play and never win, and it's how the kids are handled and their mentality. That's why you have schools without many if any big time college kids winning championships and beating schools who are breeding grounds for big schools and even pros. Just using Dan River from this thread, I saw them once, both 1st rounders were on the team against SD, and what I witnessed was the sad. SD had no big recruits and beat the huge favorite bad. It all came down to attitude, scheme, and coaching.

In a vacuum then most of these multi school counties would beat most teams, but that is on paper and not factoring in the coaching, egos, fit, etc.
 
Just nuts to think about really

Appomattox 15, 16, 17 champs
Altavista 13, 14 champs
2012 off year
Gretna 11 champs 10 runner up
Altavista 09 champs
Gretna 07/08 champs
2006 off year
William Campbell 2005 champs
Gretna 03/04 Champs
William Campbell 02 Champs
In certain years the district was just crazy with talented teams and loaded.

2005 for example we said WC State champs but they did it 3 Losses, 2 coming to Dogwood foes Chatham and Gretna who went a combined 20-3

It's cyclical. In the 90s, SWVA dominated in same fashion with PV, Appalachia, GC, Giles, Richlands, etc...ruled. PV won four titles in six seasons at one point and in 1997, the D1, D2 and D3 champ all came from a 30 mile radius.
 
Dont know much about those bigger schools except the fact that they are powerhouses, and I have thought about this in the past with all the success that Augusta County schools have had, but one thing you didn't mention that could derail those ideas is the mentality of kids.

There is a reason why you have the schools that have more athletic skills that anyone they play and never win, and it's how the kids are handled and their mentality. That's why you have schools without many if any big time college kids winning championships and beating schools who are breeding grounds for big schools and even pros. Just using Dan River from this thread, I saw them once, both 1st rounders were on the team against SD, and what I witnessed was the sad. SD had no big recruits and beat the huge favorite bad. It all came down to attitude, scheme, and coaching.

In a vacuum then most of these multi school counties would beat most teams, but that is on paper and not factoring in the coaching, egos, fit, etc.

I agree with every bit of that. To add on the coaching thing, many fans at the smaller schools don't realize the resources that larger schools often have, especially in NOVA and VA Beach and Chesapeake. No question, the coaching is FAR better per capita/on average in Nova compared to central VA. The reason is, the larger schools can allow a Head Coach to pick at least 1, and usually 2 of his assistants. The school can simply create a slot or 2 for that Head Coaches pick, and it's usually in the form of an OC and DC. Additionally, the Head Coach will rarely teach classes and if so, its one or two periods in the day. This is huge. I don't know for sure, but I bet the new coaches at Buckingham does not get to pick two coaches of his choice when taking over for 2018. Maybe not even one. It's likely a scenario of........"here are your assistants on staff" that are already here. This is why a Head coach that is brilliant offensively and defensively can dominate and truly effect the game at smaller levels like a Doug Smith. The talent with Appo, Dan River, Buckingham, Gretna, etc isn't much different. The difference is coaching.
 
The best football in Va per capita, per size, man for man, is played in Central Va. It's not NOVA, its not SWVA, its not the Tidewater or Richmond or in the Valley. It's there in the Dogwood and Seminole district areas around central Va. I'm a Tidewater Homer, but even I will admit that. Its only my opinion.

I'm not saying Appo beats Robinson Secondary or Hampton or Oscar Smith, but if you combine the schools around Appo to give them the same or similar size population as a Div 5 or Div 6 school, and let them choose from 1500, 2000, or 2500 students, then yes..........I'm saying Robinson or Westfield, or Oscar Smith loses on most years. Size for size, these two districts are ridicously good and there's no debating the numbers. Again, only my opinion
Wow! You sir are probably the first "Tidewater Homer" to make this statement, which I agree with! I admire your bravery to say such a statement publicly LOL. I just hope you aren't disowned by family and friends LOL.
 
I agree with every bit of that. To add on the coaching thing, many fans at the smaller schools don't realize the resources that larger schools often have, especially in NOVA and VA Beach and Chesapeake. No question, the coaching is FAR better per capita/on average in Nova compared to central VA. The reason is, the larger schools can allow a Head Coach to pick at least 1, and usually 2 of his assistants. The school can simply create a slot or 2 for that Head Coaches pick, and it's usually in the form of an OC and DC. Additionally, the Head Coach will rarely teach classes and if so, its one or two periods in the day. This is huge. I don't know for sure, but I bet the new coaches at Buckingham does not get to pick two coaches of his choice when taking over for 2018. Maybe not even one. It's likely a scenario of........"here are your assistants on staff" that are already here. This is why a Head coach that is brilliant offensively and defensively can dominate and truly effect the game at smaller levels like a Doug Smith. The talent with Appo, Dan River, Buckingham, Gretna, etc isn't much different. The difference is coaching.
Well spoken, I know the Buckingham scenario is a little different bc there you have a guy who was a great DC there for a long time returning to a place and rehiring a large portion of the staff he’s known and taught and worked with. However, more often than not in small schools, you are right. Some guys have to spend time coaching the coaches when they move on to a new location and you work with what you have on that front. On top of that you’re also walking into a new environment where you might be teaching a new subject at a new school and depending on the school they may work with you or they may not.
 
I agree with every bit of that. To add on the coaching thing, many fans at the smaller schools don't realize the resources that larger schools often have, especially in NOVA and VA Beach and Chesapeake. No question, the coaching is FAR better per capita/on average in Nova compared to central VA. The reason is, the larger schools can allow a Head Coach to pick at least 1, and usually 2 of his assistants. The school can simply create a slot or 2 for that Head Coaches pick, and it's usually in the form of an OC and DC. Additionally, the Head Coach will rarely teach classes and if so, its one or two periods in the day. This is huge. I don't know for sure, but I bet the new coaches at Buckingham does not get to pick two coaches of his choice when taking over for 2018. Maybe not even one. It's likely a scenario of........"here are your assistants on staff" that are already here. This is why a Head coach that is brilliant offensively and defensively can dominate and truly effect the game at smaller levels like a Doug Smith. The talent with Appo, Dan River, Buckingham, Gretna, etc isn't much different. The difference is coaching.
As far as HC being able to hire their own assistants, I think it more so depends on the administration at the school rather than the size of the school. For example, I know that Coach Smith was able to bring in 3 assistants with him to Appo and one of those was a DC.
 
It depends on both. Trust me on this one as I have relatives that Coach in High School and close friends at Poqouson, Southampton, and Hampton. The administration plays a part, but money, size, an opportunity play a bigger part and here is why.

At a school like Westfield, we are talking about 2500 or so kids. Think of how many teachers that requires in the school compared to Appo or Gretna. Lets say 650 or so students. We are talking about 3 to 4 times as many teaching positions at Westfield. It's pretty easy for a Head Coach to have 2, even 3 of his choices as finding a slot for them to teach and get paid is easier. The money and opportunity part rests in NOVA or a larger football school that has more population of people which means more boosters which is more money to pay the Head Coach.

Another example....take a school like Gate City in SWVA. Small in size, and they hire a coach a year or so ago that didn't have any say so on assistants. Gate City is a traditional power, but because the assistants that were there before the new coach arrived were not fired, then they remain. Being a small school, you can't as easily find a slot for the new Head Coaches OC or DC pick unless some other teacher resigns or retires, etc. This is where the opportunity part comes in.

If a smaller school like Appo allowed Doug Smith to bring two of his choices with him, its the exception to the rule at a small school. We're two previous assistants fired which opened up two slots so the new assistants could be employed and teach? Or, did 2 teachers in the school resign, move on or retire which would have opened two slots allowing the administration to easily tell Smith, "you can bring two." I can bet you it was one of the above scenarios. Again, smaller schools simply don't have as many teaching positions in the school compared to larger ones. Smaller schools don't have the funds to simply "create another teaching slot" without some other teacher in the school either retiring, getting fired, or simply moving on. Administrations, even at smaller schools are usually very open and accomodate a new Head Coach in bringing one or two of his personal choices as assistants with him IF there are slots available to teach. Much of this at smaller schools is about timing and luck (who's retiring or moving) etc. The larger schools don't need as much help with the timing or luck part in hoping 1 or 2 teachers in the school either transfer or retire, thus opening two slots for the Head Coaches personal choice for assistants because.......this happens every year at large schools. This is not the case as the smaller schools, especially in SWVA where the economy is tough and jobs are not as easy to come by. The money part comes into play at larger football powerful schools that have hundreds of active boosters that can simply pay the money to create a new teaching slot allowing that assistant coach to get paid.
 
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It depends on both. Trust me on this one as I have relatives that Coach in High School and close friends at Poqouson, Southampton, and Hampton. The administration plays a part, but money, size, an opportunity play a bigger part and here is why.

At a school like Westfield, we are talking about 2500 or so kids. Think of how many teachers that requires in the school compared to Appo or Gretna. Lets say 650 or so students. We are talking about 3 to 4 times as many teaching positions at Westfield. It's pretty easy for a Head Coach to have 2, even 3 of his choices as finding a slot for them to teach and get paid is easier. The money and opportunity part rests in NOVA or a larger football school that has more population of people which means more boosters which is more money to pay the Head Coach.

Another example....take a school like Gate City in SWVA. Small in size, and they hire a coach a year or so ago that didn't have any say so on assistants. Gate City is a traditional power, but because the assistants that were there before the new coach arrived were not fired, then they remain. Being a small school, you can't as easily find a slot for the new Head Coaches OC or DC pick unless some other teacher resigns or retires, etc. This is where the opportunity part comes in.

If a smaller school like Appo allowed Doug Smith to bring two of his choices with him, its the exception to the rule at a small school. We're two previous assistants fired which opened up two slots so the new assistants could be employed and teach? Or, did 2 teachers in the school resign, move on or retire which would have opened two slots allowing the administration to easily tell Smith, "you can bring two." I can bet you it was one of the above scenarios. Again, smaller schools simply don't have as many teaching positions in the school compared to larger ones. Smaller schools don't have the funds to simply "create another teaching slot" without some other teacher in the school either retiring, getting fired, or simply moving on. Administrations, even at smaller schools are usually very open and accomodate a new Head Coach in bringing one or two of his personal choices as assistants with him IF there are slots available to teach. Much of this at smaller schools is about timing and luck (who's retiring or moving) etc. The larger schools don't need as much help with the timing or luck part in hoping 1 or 2 teachers in the school either transfer or retire, thus opening two slots for the Head Coaches personal choice for assistants because.......this happens every year at large schools. This is not the case as the smaller schools, especially in SWVA where the economy is tough and jobs are not as easy to come by. The money part comes into play at larger football powerful schools that have hundreds of active boosters that can simply pay the money to create a new teaching slot allowing that assistant coach to get paid.
That makes sense. To answer your questions about Appo and Coach Smith; Two coaches from the previous staff left with former HC Ben Martin. Ben being one and another coach being the other. Both taught within the building as well. Smith replaced Martin as HC and PE teacher and one of Smith's new hires got a vacant position within the building. As far as the other that Smith brought with him, Appo administration actually "created" two positions for them. No one was fired or resigned to "create" those spots.
 
As far as HC being able to hire their own assistants, I think it more so depends on the administration at the school rather than the size of the school. For example, I know that Coach Smith was able to bring in 3 assistants with him to Appo and one of those was a DC.
I think you are correct. I believe that Madison County allowed the new coach to wipe the slate and pick his own staff, top to bottom. I understand that only one former assistant was retained. And they are barely a 2A school that is not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. But the football gate basically funds the rest of the athletic teams so it is a good investment to have a winning program.
 
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Another example....take a school like Gate City in SWVA. Small in size, and they hire a coach a year or so ago that didn't have any say so on assistants. Gate City is a traditional power, but because the assistants that were there before the new coach arrived were not fired, then they remain. Being a small school, you can't as easily find a slot for the new Head Coaches OC or DC pick unless some other teacher resigns or retires, etc. This is where the opportunity part comes in.

The reference to GC is actually not true. Every assistant or all but 1 quit when Akers took over in 16-17. He started the year out with a new staff. One or two more were hired last year when he lost staff. And he lost a few more this year, and they have been replaced.
 
It depends on both. Trust me on this one as I have relatives that Coach in High School and close friends at Poqouson, Southampton, and Hampton. The administration plays a part, but money, size, an opportunity play a bigger part and here is why.

At a school like Westfield, we are talking about 2500 or so kids. Think of how many teachers that requires in the school compared to Appo or Gretna. Lets say 650 or so students. We are talking about 3 to 4 times as many teaching positions at Westfield. It's pretty easy for a Head Coach to have 2, even 3 of his choices as finding a slot for them to teach and get paid is easier. The money and opportunity part rests in NOVA or a larger football school that has more population of people which means more boosters which is more money to pay the Head Coach.

Another example....take a school like Gate City in SWVA. Small in size, and they hire a coach a year or so ago that didn't have any say so on assistants. Gate City is a traditional power, but because the assistants that were there before the new coach arrived were not fired, then they remain. Being a small school, you can't as easily find a slot for the new Head Coaches OC or DC pick unless some other teacher resigns or retires, etc. This is where the opportunity part comes in.

If a smaller school like Appo allowed Doug Smith to bring two of his choices with him, its the exception to the rule at a small school. We're two previous assistants fired which opened up two slots so the new assistants could be employed and teach? Or, did 2 teachers in the school resign, move on or retire which would have opened two slots allowing the administration to easily tell Smith, "you can bring two." I can bet you it was one of the above scenarios. Again, smaller schools simply don't have as many teaching positions in the school compared to larger ones. Smaller schools don't have the funds to simply "create another teaching slot" without some other teacher in the school either retiring, getting fired, or simply moving on. Administrations, even at smaller schools are usually very open and accomodate a new Head Coach in bringing one or two of his personal choices as assistants with him IF there are slots available to teach. Much of this at smaller schools is about timing and luck (who's retiring or moving) etc. The larger schools don't need as much help with the timing or luck part in hoping 1 or 2 teachers in the school either transfer or retire, thus opening two slots for the Head Coaches personal choice for assistants because.......this happens every year at large schools. This is not the case as the smaller schools, especially in SWVA where the economy is tough and jobs are not as easy to come by. The money part comes into play at larger football powerful schools that have hundreds of active boosters that can simply pay the money to create a new teaching slot allowing that assistant coach to get paid.

I agree, but you would be surprised how much turnover there is within each school every year. And not all coaches are just in the high school, as some are in elementary and middle, and even some aren't teachers.

Quite a few staffs around here are mixed like that, and the guys they want together.

But it really depends on the area, school, etc. And also continuity within the program
 
That makes sense. To answer your questions about Appo and Coach Smith; Two coaches from the previous staff left with former HC Ben Martin. Ben being one and another coach being the other. Both taught within the building as well. Smith replaced Martin as HC and PE teacher and one of Smith's new hires got a vacant position within the building. As far as the other that Smith brought with him, Appo administration actually "created" two positions for them. No one was fired or resigned to "create" those spots.

That's very, very impressive and not just not very common at a smaller school, BUT....it shows exactly the commitment to winning by the admins at Appo and it shows what happens when a Head Coach at a Class 1A or 2A school that can truly get his pick of the litter. It can lead to things like.......3 state titles in a row. Most schools at the 1A, 2A, and even 3A levels do not have the financial means to create new teaching positions for assistant coaches. Because......it costs money to do that.
 
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This may have been brought up and I missed it but another aspect to consider is that even if a school had an opening, the HCs pick may not always be the best pick for the school and the other students' education. Many coaches I know are great teachers but I also know several that get by doing the minimum.
 
I think you are correct. I believe that Madison County allowed the new coach to wipe the slate and pick his own staff, top to bottom. I understand that only one former assistant was retained. And they are barely a 2A school that is not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. But the football gate basically funds the rest of the athletic teams so it is a good investment to have a winning program.
Dang, they gave Rhoads that much power? Wow! Good for him!
 
Madison hosted Stonewall Jackson in a benefit game this evening. The game only played 2 quarters and ended at halftime...due to lightning in the area. Madison was leading 42-0 so probably a good thing it ended at the half. I know SJ is still trying to find the right formula but dang if MC didn’t kinda sorta look like the MC of old. Rhoades has them heading in the right direction.
 
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