Jaimie Harless.
6-5
10-2
7-4
13-2
36-13 overall with state championship appearance.
Who would have thought?
6-5
10-2
7-4
13-2
36-13 overall with state championship appearance.
Who would have thought?
Is Botetourt the new powerhouse of Blue Ridge ?
- Thread starter freeatlast2013
- Start date
Look no further than that huge OL. Northside won't win or share the BRD this year.(maybe 4th? Behind LB, WB, SR) What does Cave Spring coach have to be thinking, Harless HC @ LB with state appearance and Pitts OC @ Salem with a state title. Both previous assistants under Fulton at Cave Spring.
Last edited:
Well, to answer your specific question, no. LB is undoubtedly very much improved from where they were pre-Harless, and all the players and coaches are to be commended for what appears to be a turnaround with staying power. However - the Cavs are still far removed from what I consider powerhouse status. For all the recent success, they still haven't even won an outright Blue Ridge title, though they did share one with state champ Northside in 2013.
LB might be the best team in the district this season; then again, William Byrd might have something to say about that. And with Northside's performance last week and nebulous situation overall, I will agree that a major shift in power in the district could be in the offing. But as of now, LB's resume basically boils down to one good playoff run. Until the Cavs start stringing together outright district titles and become a consistent presence in the regional semifinals and beyond, they do not constitute what, IMHO, qualifies as a powerhouse. And again, that's not to diminish their efforts in getting this far, because they were pretty damn bad before. Such a turnaround takes time.
Seems like yore still grinding yore teeth. Put the mouthpiece in boiling water then dip it in cold water before you put it in your mouth. I think you mentioned polls are just polls. I think you need to just Get over it. Nobody from LB is claiming some "Powerhouse" status. We do know Coach Harless is one heck of a coach and is building a football program that the LB coaches, players, parents and community supports. You won't be seeing any of them in a forum trying to tell him how to coach the LB football team. Good luck to the Spartans you know that your season doesn't rest on one win or loss or does it rest on early season polls. Your team has been successful. In my opinion the Blue Ridge will probably be decided on the last night of the season. I'm sure LB is preparing to win one game, the next game on their schedule.
Because I answered a totally subjective question honestly, I need to get over something? Don't think so. The question was, is LB the new powerhouse of the Blue Ridge. My answer is, currently, no, they're not. For the reasons given above. That doesn't mean I don't think they're a good team. Neither did I accuse anyone from LB of claiming "powerhouse" status. You've exerted too much effort trying to read or create subtext where there is none.
Last edited:
We scrimmaged LB. Are they legitimately good? Absolutely. Are they big? Without a doubt. Not much stands in there way for a trip to Williamsburg.
I think their speed is a little suspect. But a coach like Coach Harless can overcome that to a certain extent.
They are an excellent program, with nothing but a bright future.
I think their speed is a little suspect. But a coach like Coach Harless can overcome that to a certain extent.
They are an excellent program, with nothing but a bright future.
Yes, I'd say I probably agree with all of that. But.....that wasn't the question, was it? The question is, are they a powerhouse? ;-) To me, the term "powerhouse" denotes a team that wins some level of championship almost every year for a number of years; as Northside has been in the BRD, and Fleming was before them. LB just isn't that team - yet. They weren't district champs last year, and they had no regional title to play for. The Cavs do seem to be set up well for the immediate future. Time will tell. Winning the district outright this season would be a good start.
I agree. Powerhouse or Dynasty takes consistency over some number of years. But, you sure can't argue with Coach Harless' record.
This is kind of subjective, but what I use as a barometer is how good the team does in obviously weak years. I guess an example is a team with a weak program wins two games in a bad year, where a good coach and program wins seven games in an off year. And that has to be looked at with an eye to the district and non-district competition. An example I'm familiar with is Hanover. You would dismiss as potential title contenders, most teams that finished the season at 6-4. But with the brutal schedule they have, a 6-4 Hanover team would be an extremely tough out during the playoffs. Just my observation. And I'm hoping we can help them with that "4" tomorrow night.
This is kind of subjective, but what I use as a barometer is how good the team does in obviously weak years. I guess an example is a team with a weak program wins two games in a bad year, where a good coach and program wins seven games in an off year. And that has to be looked at with an eye to the district and non-district competition. An example I'm familiar with is Hanover. You would dismiss as potential title contenders, most teams that finished the season at 6-4. But with the brutal schedule they have, a 6-4 Hanover team would be an extremely tough out during the playoffs. Just my observation. And I'm hoping we can help them with that "4" tomorrow night.
I hope you can too - I picked you guys! Pick 'Em points - let's get our priorities straight, here.
Spartan...Thought this was a pretty solid answer and I am a big LB and Harless fan. Harless himself would agree with you IMO. That is one trait that makes him a great coach. Some of the LB fans get full of themselves at times and think they have "arrived". That is to be expected from fans who have been starving for success for decades but it's going to take a lot more on LB's resume before being compared with the likes of Northside or Salem or to be considered the powerhouse of the BRD.. I really do hope LB starts playing Salem again. I think it would be great for both teams. Go Cavs!
Thanks. I think the Cavs recent success is great for the LB community, who as you noted have been waiting for a consistent winner for quite some time. Shoot, I started a thread last December on semifinals day, congratulating the LB folks on their win and wishing them good luck in the final. From what I heard, Read Mountain MS wore out both the Andrew Lewis 8th and 7th grade teams this week, so in a few years, Salem might not want any part of LB!
(That was mostly a joke, for anyone from any school mentioned who might feel slighted.)
In light of the facts that LB finished a distant third in the Blue Ridge, and got smoked by the third-place River Ridge team in the first round of the playoffs, I feel completely vindicated in my "No" answer.
LB has come a long, long way from where they were pre-Harless. Still a long way to go, and a lot of hard work to put in, before the Cavaliers attain "powerhouse" status.
LB has come a long, long way from where they were pre-Harless. Still a long way to go, and a lot of hard work to put in, before the Cavaliers attain "powerhouse" status.
Last edited:
I agree. They need to get a state championship to be a powerhouse. These early Harless years remind me of the early-mid 90's Salem teams until they finally broke through in 1996.
Well, I don't know. In December of 1996, Salem had won district championships in nine out of eleven seasons, along with six regional championships. The Spartans made four straight state semifinal appearances from '89 to '92, and had two state runner-up seasons, including one in Division 6. IMHO, Lord Botetourt is still nowhere near that level yet. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the Cavaliers still have yet to win one district title outright in the Harless era. To the best of my knowledge, LB hasn't won an outright district title in football since 1984! And only shared a couple in that thirty-two year span. Not to belabor the point, but last year's state runner-up finish is really about it.
Truth be told, I think the question posed in the original post is a rather silly one. I didn't want to say so earlier for fear of offending the OP, but - there it is. Everybody has a different idea of what defines a "powerhouse." Also, such questions are better posed following the conclusion of a team's season, as opposed to one game in. I'd be content to leave it at this: LB is a solid, much-improved 3A program that is striving to take the next step, which would be clearly establishing itself as the best team in its district two or three years out of every four.
I think given the last three weeks there are far more pressing questions surrounding the LB program. The powerhouse question was obviously premature and recent results at least give rise to questioning how solid the program really is. Maybe some LB fans can offer some insight in to what is going on. I think at least one LB defensive starter is injured and still trying to play but, that doesn't explain the avalanche of points they surrendered the last 3 weeks even allowing that they faced 3 of the better offenses in the area. They need a strong defense to complement their offensive philosophy because they are not really built to survive shootouts or play from behind in a multi-score deficit.
Great points cutnjump. Either the LB defense lost its identity or someone sniffed out their weaknesses.
After reviewing the little video I could find, LB appeared to be a lot less physical on the interior line. Yes, having defensive lineman Overstreet injured hurt played a factor, but I think their youth may have played a part.
Coach Harless is doing good things and I think LB will continue to improve, but building a program takes time. Sparta (Salem) wasnt built in a day, but if the kids, fans and community continue to buy in LB could be a factor for years to come.
After reviewing the little video I could find, LB appeared to be a lot less physical on the interior line. Yes, having defensive lineman Overstreet injured hurt played a factor, but I think their youth may have played a part.
Coach Harless is doing good things and I think LB will continue to improve, but building a program takes time. Sparta (Salem) wasnt built in a day, but if the kids, fans and community continue to buy in LB could be a factor for years to come.
Thanks and agree with what you said. The real head scratcher for me is Byrd. Staunton River and Blacksburg with their speed, skill kids and offensive philosophies are not great match ups for LB, however, Byrd should have been right in LB's wheelhouse, even allowing for the speed and dynamic play of Larry Basham. Not sure if people saw something on film, if hidden/undisclosed injuries took their toll, etc. but, getting blown out the last three weeks was in stark contrast to the beatings they doled out early in the season even allowing that all 3 of the last opponents were a step up from ones earlier in the season.
I am just as confused as you, but youth, poor execution and injuries are a recipe for disaster.
I agree Byrd should have been a good match up, but it doesnt look like anyone other than Salem has really been able to slow down Basham.
Good luck to all the Roanoke Valley area teams. Although I am now a east man I still root for the boys back home.
I agree Byrd should have been a good match up, but it doesnt look like anyone other than Salem has really been able to slow down Basham.
Good luck to all the Roanoke Valley area teams. Although I am now a east man I still root for the boys back home.
Out east is probably a lot like what you grew up with. Playoff time is always fun but, a different feel now that there are not really any relevant teams in the top 2 classifications out west.
You are correct. A lot more sixes, fives, and fours. Some decent three's, but very few good teams in the lower two divisions.
My area is loaded with 5's that could beat just about anybody in any class. LC Bird, Hermitage, Highland Springs and Manchester to name a few.
The Metro Richmond area offers great games each week. Kind of like the old days when GW Danville, EC Glass, and Pulaski used to bump heads with the AAA Roanoke Valley teams (Salem was AAA when I was in school). Very similar atmosphere just a different style of play.
I will say I wouldnt want to be hit by some of the defensive studs I see weekly in all levels. I worked the chains during a scrimmage this season and the licks being given scared the crap out of me. The Va Tech recruit from LC Birg hit one of our running backs so hard my fillings almost fell out. Sitting in the crowd you just dont realize how fast and strong todays athletes are.
Thanks for the polite and interesting discussion.
My area is loaded with 5's that could beat just about anybody in any class. LC Bird, Hermitage, Highland Springs and Manchester to name a few.
The Metro Richmond area offers great games each week. Kind of like the old days when GW Danville, EC Glass, and Pulaski used to bump heads with the AAA Roanoke Valley teams (Salem was AAA when I was in school). Very similar atmosphere just a different style of play.
I will say I wouldnt want to be hit by some of the defensive studs I see weekly in all levels. I worked the chains during a scrimmage this season and the licks being given scared the crap out of me. The Va Tech recruit from LC Birg hit one of our running backs so hard my fillings almost fell out. Sitting in the crowd you just dont realize how fast and strong todays athletes are.
Thanks for the polite and interesting discussion.
Is that the Ashby kid? The game has obviously changed with rules to assist the offense and promote safety influencing style of play nowadays. In my opinion, passing games are superior now and benefit from 7 on 7 and year round practice, however, running games and defense are worse due to less focus on the ground game and reduced full contact practices where tackling fundamentals are emphasized. While bigger, faster, stronger is the general rule now I do not believe the actual quality of play or teams are better. Perception may be attributable to changing styles of play but, in my opinion, the quality of play has been declining on an annual basis since the mid to late 1990's. That is not to say there have not been some really good teams since then that could have competed in earlier times, there are. However, on the whole, despite current teams being generally bigger, faster and stronger it is my opinion the physical differences are not significant enough to overcome a much higher level of fundamental skills and toughness. Also, at least out west, I believe the difference can be seen in the number of athletes signing to play D-1 football as their seems to be a lot fewer D-1's now than there used to be.
I think there is a bigger divide between the truly good teams and everyone else these days. As well as the fact that the general level of play is less. I think there are a couple of contributing factors to this. One is that there are so many more activities for kids to be involved in, that the talent and emphasis gets spread thin. And conversely, for a particular athletic team to compete at the highest level, the kids have to be "all in" and essentially vested year around.
A major conflict for training and preparedness time has already occurred at some schools between football and lacrosse. 20 years ago, virtually no public school played lacrosse. And look where soccer is now compared to 20 years ago.
Baseball and football used to never conflict. But with year around training for both, choices have to be made. In baseball especially, there are avenues to compete, not just train, constantly. With all of the travel teams, and summer, fall, and winter leagues, the best baseball players just shun football. 20 years ago, your best athletes played multiple sports.
I don't know, maybe we are all wrong. Maybe the teams and games are just as good on average as they were way back when? Maybe we just like to believe in the good old days.
But, the one thing that Navy said is absolutely true. I've seen a little football from the sidelines. And have had the pleasure of spotting at a few games, using binoculars. And I don't want any part of the collisions I see nowadays.
