The VHSL and participating schools by a 27-0 vote have officially moved the 6a and 5a football championships to Hampton U. and the 4a-3a to William and Mary. 1a-2a will still be played at Salem.
Its Official! VHSL VOTES TO CHANGE FOOTBALL SITES
- Thread starter BleedingNavy
- Start date
Starting this year(2016) or next year(2017)?
EDIT: nvm, Saw the link in another post that states changes begin this season, 2016.
Hard to believe the Executive Committee has gone off the deep end. With a 27-0, that tells me it was rigged. One could not get 27 people to agree that today is Thursday.
I hope VHSL loses a lot of $$$$$$$ by moving games to W&M. I hope they have all kinds of problems with that venue.
I hope VHSL loses a lot of $$$$$$$ by moving games to W&M. I hope they have all kinds of problems with that venue.
I dont always agree with Shanti, but he called this one. HR you have been able to stay close to home for three years and those of us from the east who support 3a and 4a have traveled to Lynchburg. Now we get to stay close to home. Nothing wrong with rotating things.
Please don't wish ill will on the States. Its still about the young men who play the game. They dont care where they play. Its the fans who gripe and most dont even travel to away games.
Please don't wish ill will on the States. Its still about the young men who play the game. They dont care where they play. Its the fans who gripe and most dont even travel to away games.
The games should be rotated to give the public in every part of the state a chance to have that state championship atmosphere in their area. Locations should be allowed to qualify/disqualify themselves based upon their own performance and support. Wishing ill will on a location merely because it doesn't fit your geographic preference is small minded and childish.
Yeah Navy, like I told you, I was shocked. I was under the belief that the whole thing was just a well orchestrated political ploy to appease the VHSL members that came out against LU's position on guns. (I'm also mindful of the stance and comments of Falwell). But I figured they would go through the motions, say it was not possible for 2016, and then change venues in 2017.
It's logical to believe that there is absolutely no love lost between the VHSL executives and the administration of LU. But I'm still surprised that this action was taken. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not really in disagreement, just surprised).
There is no question that the choices are never a perfect answer. But if you consider Richmond is roughly the center of the state, them Williamsburg is not far from being about an equal distance to Lynchburg, from RVA.
Anyone know the reasons that the 5a/6a venue was changed?
It's logical to believe that there is absolutely no love lost between the VHSL executives and the administration of LU. But I'm still surprised that this action was taken. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not really in disagreement, just surprised).
There is no question that the choices are never a perfect answer. But if you consider Richmond is roughly the center of the state, them Williamsburg is not far from being about an equal distance to Lynchburg, from RVA.
Anyone know the reasons that the 5a/6a venue was changed?
The 6A/5A move does seem a little puzzling. UVa's facility seemed to be an ideal solution between the two dense concentrations of 6A's and 5A's in NOVA and the Va. Beach area. It was also convenient to the Richmond schools.
My guess is the decision had much to do with what is most cost effective for the VHSL. In other words, the best deal - which is understandable.
Does anyone know the specifics of the economics of the state championships?
Let's considered just the LU venue.
What does the VHSL pay LU?
How much is the gate?
What does it typically cost the VHSL to reimburse the schools for travel, etc?
Does LU keep the revenue from the concessions?
What are the cost for the hospitality suites, and for the officials and chain crew?
What other expenses are there?
What other revenue is there?
Typically, is it a net loss or gain for the VHSL?
And, I'm asking specifically about the championship games at LU, not the playoffs leading up to same.
Let's considered just the LU venue.
What does the VHSL pay LU?
How much is the gate?
What does it typically cost the VHSL to reimburse the schools for travel, etc?
Does LU keep the revenue from the concessions?
What are the cost for the hospitality suites, and for the officials and chain crew?
What other expenses are there?
What other revenue is there?
Typically, is it a net loss or gain for the VHSL?
And, I'm asking specifically about the championship games at LU, not the playoffs leading up to same.
This is not so unusual considering the games had been moved from VT during the previous rotation. leaving things at Salem was a little puzzling. Bailey field in the Tidewater area, is more than capable of handling this event as well as Salem but I don't know of another off the top of my head.
LU was about payback. The brilliant move by the VHSL was rotating the 5A - 6A games to Hampton even though UVA was probably the best venue in VA for this event. Now, LU has no grounds for saying this was directed at them. Well done VHSL. 27 - 0 deserves a round of applause.
UVA will probably return but the VHSL will hold a grudge with LU for a very long time with so many other good facilities to choose from.
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The best thing of all is that a coach of a team from Norfolk area won't be able to whine about how far his team has to travel this year (if they make it back to championship game).Wasn't fair they had to travel all the way to Lynchburg last year. (apparently it wasn't a problem the year before).
Any travel does have an affect, especially when you're not used to it. A team doesn't really know how to prepare. But since most teams that need to travel arrive the day before the game, it should not be an issue.
You are correct that any travel can have an affect. I am not sure what the VHSL rules are now about travel on state championship. Use to be they reimbursed travel expenses for an overnight stay if you were more than 2 hours from venue(I believe 2 hrs was demarcation line). Travel could have also been impacted by the budgetary situation of the school and program as reimbursement while defraying cost was not sufficient in most cases to cover all. In addition, travel plans are impacted by the preference and prior experience of the head coach. Some coaches are fine with overnight travel. Others believe it can present a temptation to kids and get them out of their routine. In those latter situations some coaches still opt to travel day of game depending on game time and break up longer trips with a stop for meal or pregame walkthrough en route.
One other thing, I am not sure the decision to leave 1A and 2A in Salem is all that puzzling since for the majority of schools in that division Salem is easily the closest venue. Outside of Essex, not sure how many 1A or 2A participants have come from other areas of the state. JMU might be an option but, moving the lower divisions to Tidewater and/or NOVA pretty much guarantees at least 2 and often times 4 teams would have a pretty large travel commitment whereas for most teams and their fans Salem is a manageable day trip. That consideration coupled with the fact that venue/event management is rarely, if ever, a question outside of suggestions for broadening concession options ;-) makes Salem pretty much a slam dunk much like the Salem CC is for wrestling.
UVA never wanted to host the game to begin with. It wanted to be a second option for the games, but was stuck because the venue they wanted to use ODU wanted astronomical figures to host the game. As far as a coach whining about having to travel its not about the travel time his beef was he feels the games should be rotated around the state. A stance that he reiterated yesterday in the paper, so that it can be hosted in each region and not just in one place every year. http://pilotonline.com/sports/high-...cle_ed8e0757-cb52-5c47-844b-ce59ff7b6ce4.html
A lot of people in this area hear Lynchburg and say naw I'm not going there. That's just their beliefs, the same way Salem fans probably wouldn't come to a game in Williamsburg or Hampton because they may view that as too far. The real crime is in basketball where they have predetermined the sites for each classification. No one is going to ride to the Salem Civic Center for a state final 4 of all East teams or East and teams from NOVA in 4A. GW Danville vs. Monacan and Champe vs. Lake Taylor were the final 4. Those games would have been dead.
As for travel to a state championship game, teams should schedule at least one good road trip during regular season, to prepare them for post season travel. But I have heard some schools whine if they have to travel over 20 miles to a game.
This vote deal was rigged in advance. I find it hard to believe that vote was 27-0. It was all political in nature. Now if vote had been 14-13 in either direction it would look more honest.
This vote deal was rigged in advance. I find it hard to believe that vote was 27-0. It was all political in nature. Now if vote had been 14-13 in either direction it would look more honest.
I was hoping they'd drop one of the locations and just go with 2 sites, with 3 games at each one. Or as we have discussed on here before have one super site that hosts all 6 games over the same weekend, so us folks that can't get enough hs football can watch all the games.
It would be great if fans could watch all of the games. For the past several years I have had to rotate between Lynchburg and Salem, between games, thus missing good games at each site. The VHSL isn't smart enough to figure this out. I assume all of VHSL has master's degrees from some college or university, yet they appear not to have any common sense when it comes to athletics. I have no degree from anywhere, but I could do a better job than the VHSL, when it comes to scheduling and selecting sites.
I'm glad that they 5A & 6A games aren't held at UVA or Tech. There isn't enough fan support to warrant a venue that big and it creates a terrible atmosphere because of the empty seats. A W&M, Richmond, Norfolk State, Hampton type of venue is the perfect size. I agree that the location should rotate. Just my two cents
Sorry, I see 27 - 0 as honest as it gets. 27 Educators, AD's and Administrators all agreed right out of the shoot. Nobody was "bought off". It was not "fixed". I told you this would not even be a matter of discussion. They simply needed to comply with the decorum and protocol of the committee standards. This was all a done deal before anyone even walked into the door to vote. This is how things work in a business world. Sorry to burst your bubble. It simply depicts the resounding hatred of LU and LCA throughout the CommonWealth. It also shows these folks are pretty smart in moving the 5A/6A venue also, leaving the LU legal juggernaut impotent.
You can't understand it all but 27 really smart folks think otherwise. Nobody was manipulated into this. It was an easy call and it was unanimous.
FYI, they also banned the Spread Offense because it's not real Football. It only is a cover for a team's deficiencies and why they don't run it in the NFL. Back to winning by blocking and tackling. The vote was 27 - 0.
I wish they would vote to require every team to throw the ball at least 15 times a game.
Not being able to throw the ball is the number one cause for teams losing, (most of the time) along with poor defense. If you can pass the ball and play defense your chances of playing in December are increased.
Not being able to throw the ball is the number one cause for teams losing, (most of the time) along with poor defense. If you can pass the ball and play defense your chances of playing in December are increased.
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Actually, I had the same thought myself about the Salem location. Other tha Essex, it seems most likely the 1A or 2A reps would be Western Schools but I didn't think my knowledge in this area was enough to talk off the top of my head. I do know Bailey Field in Tidewater could do this. Do you know of any others that could accommodate or want these lower level games?
There must be somewhere else that could host the wrestling venue well.
Travel is hard when you're not used to it but this is HS. No one has to do over night trips, sleep in hotels, have meals in other places or be in a strange environment. Very hard to maintain a teams focus under such circumstances, despite a Coach's experience.
As I wrote in another thread, I quit the Salem Football Fans Facebook page largely because of all of the over-the-top indignation and outrage over the move to Williamsburg. "Oh no! What will we do?! Williamsburg is SO far away! That's not fair!" Not many were able (or willing) to see that it also wasn't fair to fans of LT, for instance, to have to drive the same distance to Liberty. So sadly, you're right about the extra distance convincing many people to stay home. And as always, I'm not talking about folks like our buddy mike Salem, who face unusual travel circumstances.
The move isn't a problem for me at all. I am probably in the minority of Salem fans, but the big blow to my personal travel convenience doesn't bother me. My personal feeling is, if Salem is playing in a state championship in football or boys basketball, anywhere in the state, I'm going to be there. I've traveled to Newport News and Norfolk to see Salem play in state title games in those sports. I have no children, but if I did and they were involved in any other sport or activity, the same would be true.
The casual, in-passing fans will stay home; the true fans will come. The fans of Salem or other schools moaning about "having" to travel all that extra distance should remember, you don't "have" to do it. I view it as a privilege to watch my team play in a state final. It should be something you want to do, to show your support for the players and coaches who have worked so hard and achieved so much. As long as you're physically able and travel conditions are safe, of course.
Has it been nice the last four times Salem's been in the state final, walking out the door and, less than ninety minutes later, being in my seat at LU? It sure has. But although the move to W&M would prove much less convenient, it would not be less fun or exciting.
And here's a big consideration - who says it's a certainty that Salem is going to be there?! Or LT, for that matter? There are no guarantees; it's still almost three months until practice starts. So many people on that Salem Facebook page were just acting as if it were a given that they would have to deal with the "hardship", as one person put it, of driving to Williamsburg. I think that's what galled me the most. Again, I must be in the minority, but I realize that there is a chance that Salem (heaven forbid!) might not ever reach a state final in football again, for all we know. A lot can happen along the way. Many schools have never been to even one. That's why, if your team does make it, it's an occasion to be savored. So, hopefully enough people will come to realize that, and go support their teams, regardless of the locale. School and community pride should be able to travel any distance.
Hard core fans of most any school will travel to see their team play. The neutral fans will stay away, when venue is not good. When VHSL selects a site, they do not care about the fans, yet they want the fans' money. Then when they lose money, they wonder why. VHSL has very poor leadership, if any at all.
I am still waiting for a promised reply from an email I sent to VHSL in 2007. If I don't get it by end of this school year, I will give up.
I am still waiting for a promised reply from an email I sent to VHSL in 2007. If I don't get it by end of this school year, I will give up.
I do agree a balanced offense is important. I would like to see a team that can run or pass. It keeps the defense off balance. Requirements, however, are unacceptable. A team like Byrd, for example, does not need to pass to win and at a very high level.
But let's see what you said here. A balanced Offense and a good defense makes for December teams. I can roll with that.
You've been waiting for a response since 2007? Now that is insanity.
Truth be known, I gave up when email did not arrive as promised. It was in reference to buying a tape of championship game. Back then one could not have cam corder in stadium because VHSL had a deal with some company to sell tapes/DVDs. (can't remember which back then). I contacted VHSL to find out what company was selling them.
VHSL actually did not have a deal for anyone to market tape/dvd.
VHSL actually did not have a deal for anyone to market tape/dvd.
I agree with the site rotation. I think Magna Vista traveled well to Phoebus for the Semifinal game last year. Each team's fans are different & travel for a game is dependent on several factors: cost, time, school organization, opponent, weather etc...
I think Salem would travel pretty well if they made it to the Finals, but obviously they won't bring the number of fans to Williamsburg that they did to Lynchburg. I think the further travel for whoever makes the Finals decreases the number of fans. Salem probably had around 5,000 fans for the 2 weeks that they traveled to Lynchburg (about an hour) for the Semifinal & Final games compared to 800 fans for the Quarterfinal game that was in NOVA. (3 & a 1/2 hours) I think the deeper in the playoffs a team gets increases the fan's desire to attend, but the travel distance still has a big effect on attendance.
The opponent makes a difference too. There was a lot more interest in seeing JF & LT than seeing Champe (relatively unknown)
Good post Mike Salem.
Some schools travel better than others. I went to a 2A game in Northern Virginia a few seasons back. Game was played at George Mason High School. Cannot recall who was playing, but one school had 6 fans on their side of field. I wish VHSL was have a game in some bad venue and not enough fans show up to pay for VHSL's staff gas to get to the game.
Some schools travel better than others. I went to a 2A game in Northern Virginia a few seasons back. Game was played at George Mason High School. Cannot recall who was playing, but one school had 6 fans on their side of field. I wish VHSL was have a game in some bad venue and not enough fans show up to pay for VHSL's staff gas to get to the game.
Not necessarily since none of us know what deals were offered by the various venues.
I think this was done in response to all of the LU/LCA controversy in the last year. 1) LCA sued the VHSL to gain admission, I'm sure that was still fresh in their minds. 2) Jerry Jr, speaking at convocation, said we should arm ourselves against "those Muslims." He insists that he was referring to the couple that did the shooting, and that may be true, but it seemed like poor phrasing at a minimum. (Controversial subject) 3) LU allowing students with the proper permit to have guns on campus. (Agree or not it's a controversial issue)
I think the VHSL wanted to distance themselves as much as possible from LU because they felt controversy will always surround them, especially under the current administration.
The facilities are very nice, location is central, without the controversy I think things would have stayed status quo. The VHSL even moved the spring jubilee & indoor track and field, so I think that shows they were making a statement-making decision. I don't foresee them moving games back to LU. I disagree with Shauntclair on a lot of things, but I believe he is right here.
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This is REALLY scary! I agree with HR6, (great post Mike), and Shaunty at the same time!!!!!
Where are they moving softball and baseball to in Salem. Where ever it is, the facilities will not be as good as LU's. Liberty has the 4th best baseball stadium in country and 2nd best softball stadium. I bet salem's fields where ever they be, cannot take rain like LU can, and still play. I see a lot of rainouts.
As for center of state Richmond is not close, and Williamsburg is even farther off center. The center of state is a point between Amherst and Staunton River High Schools., I computed this about 3 years ago, utilizing military map reading skills, I picked up years ago.
The big questions are why did they move 5/6A to Hampton and why leave 1/2A in Salem. Granted Salem is a good venue for 1/2A, but something seems amiss with the deal.
But all in all, I hope there comes a day when VHSL regrets moving 3/4A games to Williamsburg. Very stupid decision.
As for center of state Richmond is not close, and Williamsburg is even farther off center. The center of state is a point between Amherst and Staunton River High Schools., I computed this about 3 years ago, utilizing military map reading skills, I picked up years ago.
The big questions are why did they move 5/6A to Hampton and why leave 1/2A in Salem. Granted Salem is a good venue for 1/2A, but something seems amiss with the deal.
But all in all, I hope there comes a day when VHSL regrets moving 3/4A games to Williamsburg. Very stupid decision.
Im surprised 5 & 6 a are in hampton instead of richmond, that would seem to be a more desirable spot than hampton for the nova schools. Richmond would still be closer for the beach and tidewater schools, but itd likely save nova schools an hour or so driving when compared to Hampton...
You clearly need a wider frame of reference. LU's baseball and softball facilities are very good but, no where close to your contention of 4th and 2nd. Your military map skills and the geographic center of the state are irrelevant because the schools in each classification are not uniformly dispersed throughout the entire state. Finally, Salem's facilities have hosted multiple national championships in D-2 and D-3 as well as high school state championships and their facilities are top notch in terms of tolerating bad weather. Equally as important their staff and the City have proven on multiple occasions they can overcome inclement weather conditions very effectively. Do yourself a favor and quit embarrassing yourself with the continued whining about the moves supported by your obviously uninformed assertions.
I agree about the LCA suing them, this is there way to get back at them
